Accountant's Utopia Philosophy

[Ranmaru]

What is your utopia ideal in once sentence as I'm too lazy to read the whole thread? Just curious. What is the utopia ideal based on? How will people be re-educated and why?

The Utopia is based on the idea that everyone must be perfect in mind, body and morality, and if they aren't able to do it then we'll help them do it. That, in one sentence, encompasses my philosophy.

People will be re-educated for a very simple reason. A perfect world with imperfect people in it isn't truly perfect. Therefore, in order to create a perfect world, it's necessary to remove the imperfect people.

What are your standards of mind, body, and morality? (Like can you define what is perfect for each one) What methods will you use to help people achieve perfect scores in each? I assume re-education is for those that have simply not achieved those three things

yet

?

You might be able to attain such a feat if you become president. Maybe. I don't know.

[Accountant]

first of all, saying you will forcibly change people's minds against their will is different from people suggesting you see a therapist or something

second of all, have people throughout history ALWAYS been pushing closer to your correct path and will they always go in that direction? how can you be sure

I can be sure because people throughout history will get smarter. As long as that keeps steady, they will eventually become smart enough to see the self evident truths of the world, as I did.

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you think is the reason you are so ahead of your time?

[Accountant]

What are your standards of mind, body, and morality? (Like can you define what is perfect for each one) What methods will you use to help people achieve perfect scores in each? I assume re-education is for those that have simply not achieved those three things yet?

The answer is the same for all three: omnipotence.

Well, it's true that you can't re-educate someone to be omnipotent(lol), so the re-education bit is to address the short term issues and evils that plague our world, just like in a game of Minecraft you'd clear out the monsters and build a shelter before trying to make a giant statue or a massive treehouse, right? Similarly, we have to get everyone on the same page, get everyone working together, make sure we don't have people shooting or stabbing or bombing each other or being technophobes (eg. the idiots that banned cloning and stem cell research) or any number of other stupidities, and once we have a perfect world where nobody is evil and everyone is absolutely good and unified into a hivemind, then we can begin the ambitious project of trying to gain omnipotence.

[Accountant]

What do you think is the reason you are so ahead of your time?

I have very good moral intuitions.

[Gamma Emerald]

What is the point of cloning? You can't recreate minds, the best use I can think of is creating body doubles for either dangerous tasks or for replacement parts in the case of accident.

[Accountant]

What is the point of cloning? You can't recreate minds, the best use I can think of is creating body doubles for either dangerous tasks or for replacement parts in the case of accident.

That, and it set a dangerous precedent. It normalizes and validates the act of limiting human advancement under the pretext of "but it's squicky and immoral q.q"

[Accountant]

The replacement parts thing is actually significant. You know how many people die each year because they can't find a kidney or whatever? Yes, I know cloned body parts aren't as good, but if you let people experiment on it they might actually be able to, y'know, research a way to make cloned parts viable for transplant.

[Sesq]

I'm flattered that you think I have the ability to re-educate someone just by being face-to-face with them. Unfortunately I am not that good a persuader. Or do you mean the more traditional form of killing? May I remind you that that path is forbidden to me due to it being against the law?

additional question: why is order *the* most important thing

When did I say it was? It's certainly a very very very very very important thing (more important than the lives of a bunch of rebels, that's for sure), but it's incorrect to say that the correct path is just order. There are a lot of other considerations you have to put in place other than pure order. (eg. a universe free of sentient life but that was very orderly would still be suboptimal).

whats above it then

[Accountant]

whats above it then

Is an apple above an orange?

[Shaziro]

So I missed a day's worth of this thread, but like, I get the gist of what's being said I guess?

Here's the thing. Accountant is morally reprehensible, and the fact that they're still around after openly fantasizing about hunting down and killing other scummers is incredibly disappointing, but the fact that Accountant literally can't do anything because of the fact that they haven't ever been able to formulate a way any of the things they say will happen...y'know...-will- happen? That comforts me somewhat.

Luckily for me, the site rules don't count re-education attempts as death threats. (And hell, if they did, the people telling me to "give up on this delusion and get help" would be banned along with me) The "noooo you're alive as long as your mind and body are there" sword cuts both ways.

Also, I have gone into great detail about the exact reason why those things will happen. To reiterate:

1) people will grow smarter
2) as they get smarter, they are able to see the self evident truths of the world
3) they convert to the correct path
4) they agree with my ideals
5) men with machine guns escort you to the re-education center

Any questions?

Yeah, no, the death threat is in you specifically saying that they would be "squashed". That implies that the machine guns would be used to kill people. You also ignore the whole fact that if it's just forcing people to think like you do (which is also horrific, mind you) then the guns aren't needed. No, you've said many times that you would be happy to literally kill people who don't do what you want. Again, the fact that you're here still is incredibly disappointing.

Let's talk about this process.

1: There's no proof of this
2: There's no proof that what you think is a "self evident truth"
3: There's no proof that what you think are self evident truths will matter to people
4: Again, no proof that this will happen
5: Back to gross and incredibly unlikely.

And, in this whole 5 step progress, you don't explain -how- this will happen. You just say it will. Honestly, I'm pretty sure the reason you haven't been banned for the death threats is because you're incompetent even in your garbage thought experiment.

[Annadog40]

The orderly Romans were taken by chaotic Barbarians.

This set back technology for hundrads of years, what makes you think that we always will move to progress when history shows that this isn't always the case.

Also, do you consider yourself smart?

[Accountant]

I have no need to. I will wait until the world realizes how right I am, until people get smarter and smarter and grow a pair of eyes. Then the police and the army would root out the disgusting rebels like you. Try to defend yourself, then, against the unstoppable might of a hundred thousand people with machine guns, their eyes burning with the unquenchable fire of someone who knows for sure that what they are doing is absolutely right.

No use of the word "squashed".


That said, I do not deny that if Mario fights back, he will be killed. He

will

meet his death at the end of a barrel of a gun if he attempts to resist arrest and re-education.

But that is not a death threat.

I do not claim to be the one holding the gun, nor do I claim to want him to be torn apart by a hail of bullets. I am just saying that this is what will, inevitably, happen to those who resist.

It is no different, you see, from saying "if you resist arrest against Duterte's police, you will be gunned down". I am not fantasizing about Mario getting gunned down(I only fantasize about the re-education, which is not covered under site rules). I am simply stating a hard, undeniable fact. If you resist arrest from the utopic police, you will be gunned down. There will be no warning shots. There will be no calls to surrender and put down the knife or you will die. The only thing you will receive, if you resist a utopic police officer, will be a bullet, or if you are lucky/polite, a spray of tear gas or pepper spray.

This is not a death threat, nor is it a fantasy. It is a statement of truth.

[Accountant]

No, you've said many times that you would be happy to literally kill people who don't do what you want.

Not only do I believe this, I will state that anyone not willing to kill for their beliefs is a cowardly traitor who has abandoned their ideals in favor of their hindbrain, and who would rather let the world fall to evil, or what they think is evil, than do something they think is icky, with the exception of people who suffer from axiom contradiction in this case, such as an axiomatic pacifist. Such a person would be well-advised to grow a spine and actually support their beliefs instead of merely paying lip service to them. It is both hypocritical and nothing more than empty, childish excuse-making to claim you support such-and-such but not have the guts to back it up by taking moral responsibility for your own beliefs. At the risk of sounding sexist, please grow a fucking pair.

[Accountant]

Empty shells daring to stand on their personal soapbox and accuse me of being disgusting when they themselves have no conviction in their own beliefs, admitted by their ownselves; who is the disgusting one here? Certainly not the one who is willing to stand up for their beliefs with actions instead of lip service.

[Accountant]

You also ignore the whole fact that if it's just forcing people to think like you do (which is also horrific, mind you) then the guns aren't needed.

The guns are needed to ensure compliance. People left on their own - left with free will - are at risk of making the wrong choice and not heading to re-education.

Think about it this way. Suppose I tell you, you can choose X or Y. That is free will. Now suppose I tell you, you can choose X or Y, but if you choose X I will shoot you. That is not free will. That is pure coercion. No court or reasonable person would accept that as a valid choice. Thus the presence of machine guns strips the rebels of their free will.

I have already argued that free will is evil above. Hence, adding the machine guns is a moral good to strip the rebels of their free will. I am freeing the rebels from the sin of free will - as opposed to being a disgusting oppressor, I am actually helping them. And you say I don't help people - what joke.

[Accountant]

1: There's no proof of this
2: There's no proof that what you think is a "self evident truth"
3: There's no proof that what you think are self evident truths will matter to people
4: Again, no proof that this will happen
5: Back to gross and incredibly unlikely.

1. I don't need proof.
2. I don't need proof.
3. I don't need proof.
4. I don't need proof.
5. Necessary and there is no choice, I have to do it; resistance is almost inevitable as not everyone will convert as fast as others.

[Gamma Emerald]

What exactly is re-education?

This was never answered.

[Accountant]

The orderly Romans were taken by chaotic Barbarians.

This set back technology for hundrads of years, what makes you think that we always will move to progress when history shows that this isn't always the case.

Also, do you consider yourself smart?

I don't deny there could be setbacks, but I believe in the long term society will progress on. Now we are far more technologically advanced than either Romans or Barbarians. We grew out of the Dark Ages, as well.

[Accountant]

What exactly is re-education?

This was never answered.

Re-education is the forcible alteration of someone's axioms. This kills the rebel. The "new them" (ie. the markedly different set of axioms possessing the flesh sack that they once used) is then a productive member of utopia.

[Annadog40]

So you say resist causes death, so shouldn't half the people in this thread be dead?

[Accountant]

Resisting a utopic police officer causes death.

[Annadog40]

But right now it wouldn't. Unless you took the role of utpic police officer.

[Accountant]

You are correct.

[Annadog40]

So are you obligated to do so now?