Mini 1907: Oddrole Mafia IV (Game over)


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Post Post #675 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:20 am

Post by eagerSnake »

VC 1.29


massive (6) [L-1]: podoboq, boring, Almost50, Chickadee, GinghamDog, Javajoe24
Chickadee (3) [L-4]: Desperado, GuiltyLion, massive
Almost50 (2) [L-5]: SnarkySnowman, Creature

Not Voting (2): TheBrie, Rautherdir

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline in (expired on 2017-05-19 12:33:03).

Prodding SnarkySnowman and Creature.
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Post Post #676 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:26 am

Post by boring »

In post 642, GinghamDog wrote:
In post 639, podoboq wrote:The massive wagon seems to be getting a lot of resistance, just not in the form of "this wagon is stupid, don't join it." It's mostly "I could vote there, but SS and/or Chickadee are better wagons."
I think that's because there's some paranoia surrounding WHY the other two wagons disbanded. I keep wondering if we've been corralled into a mislynch.
It's something I've wondered about a little too.

Now, I've set Chicka aside because I accepted that everything I find wrong with her play can be boiled down to a very consistent and specific set of personality traits. With that in mind, I can easily reframe everything I've taken issue with as NAI. Since I'm one of the few people to actually create a case against her, despite a substantial wagon, I think it's safe to guess that there were some opportunistic votes on her along the way. I'm not even going to say with confidence that she's town. Only, I haven't found any decent evidence that she's scum.

One thing I did find curious, is that while people certainly made decisions about whether they agreed more with Chicka or me, most people concluded it was TvT. Scum normally use those tiffs to take sides (or pretend that they don't want to get involved and use it as an excuse to not read anyone). Scum rarely pronounce it TvT. In fact, I think the only person to really take a side with a vote is GuiltyLion, and he documented his decision-making process to include other observations as well. I don't know how to interpret all that, but I felt it worth noting.

As to Snarky, I'd still be voting him/her if not for the podoboq. I've hard townread him/her before with far less activity. He/she made it super obvious (to me) that he/she was town last time. I'm not seeing it right now. I'm not even sure I totally trust podoboq. I just want to see what happens from this because I think it will be helpful in solving the game.
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Post Post #677 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:31 am

Post by boring »

UNVOTE:
To avoid lol-hammer and to discuss how quickly we got him up to L-1 (with enough people willing to vote him to make a hammer).

Is it just the deadline? or is Gingham right about being corralled into a mislynch?
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Post Post #678 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:40 am

Post by GinghamDog »

I think it's partially the deadline which earned him so many votes in the past hour. But he's been in several lynchpools for a while now.

If massive is scum, I kinda doubt he's being bussed. If he's town, there's very likely one or two scum on his wagon, but I doubt all of them are.

I get the hunch that massive is more likely 3rd party than scum. He's been semi-lurky, engages a little but never takes it too far, moves his vote with the flow... It looks survivalist to me.
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Post Post #679 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:44 am

Post by Rautherdir »

... Snarky has been posting in one of my other games. I gave him a few hours to catch up here and post, but he does not seem to want to enter this game and I cannot think of a good reason why.
VOTE: Snarky Snowman
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Post Post #680 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:51 am

Post by GinghamDog »

In post 679, Rautherdir wrote:... Snarky has been posting in one of my other games. I gave him a few hours to catch up here and post, but he does not seem to want to enter this game and I cannot think of a good reason why.
VOTE: Snarky Snowman
Really? After you said this?
In post 612, Rautherdir wrote:Yes. Let's get yet another wagon formed. This will work wonderfully and we will definitely have enough time to decide on a lynch.
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Post Post #681 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:52 am

Post by podoboq »

Earmarking Rauth for speed murder if massive flips red.
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Post Post #682 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:52 am

Post by GinghamDog »

It's starting to feel like someone WANTS us to no-lynch.
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Post Post #683 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:55 am

Post by podoboq »

In post 682, GinghamDog wrote:It's starting to feel like someone WANTS us to no-lynch.
We've got almost two days, and massive is l-2. Calm down.
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Post Post #684 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:56 am

Post by eagerSnake »

Reminder that discussion of ongoing games is not allowed.
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Post Post #685 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 8:59 am

Post by Chickadee »

In post 153, boring wrote:@Chickadee - you keep saying there's been no case brought against you, yet at least three players (desperado, snarky, and myself) have mentioned reasons for voting you.
I'm not suggesting they're terribly defensible reasons
, but they've been documented, nonetheless.
Criticizes me for not defending myself...against not terribly defensible reasons.

In post 209, boring wrote:I don't think Desperado's position is a very smart one for scum to take. He's taken a "sweet" player, and is tunnelling her from her first post. If they're scum together, I can almost see it, but in all other worlds, it's a really dumb move as it calls unnecessary attention to oneself. Besides, it's a guarantee that the person targeted in the beginning of Day 1 (and usually) Day 2 isn't getting lynched that day. There are too many ways for the wind to blow. He's much more likely arrogant town than a gambling scum.
I hate the argument of "Would scum really do that though??" the answer is always yes. Scum are capable of anything. Honestly, I've seen some great scum plays where the motivation was "town will never think scum would do this." A lot of boring's analysis this game feels like "but surely scum wouldn't do that."

In post 223, boring wrote:podoboq was right. Chickadee really is very different this game compared to Oddrole 3. I went there to investigate TheBrie, but Chicka's difference is substantial. Either she's a really quick learner, or she's not scum.

TheBrie on the otherhand, she had a more solid tone there, whereas she's giving off a bit of a ditsy vibe in this game. It felt a little contrived before, but comparing games, I see that she's pretty serious when it comes to game-solving.

VOTE: TheBrie
She seems to be rolling with podo's analysis here.
In post 450, boring wrote:Shit, I missed the wagon changes..

VOTE: SnarkySnowman
I need to go back and look at the context here. This quote is more for me to reference after I get my thoughts down.
In post 483, boring wrote:@Creature - Chicka's play makes it clear that she's primarily occupied with her own survival. It's extreme enough that I'm having a hard time construing any kind of motivation toward the town win-con out of them. So if she's not motivated toward a town win, I have to conclude that she's not town.
Survivalism isn't AI. Stop acting like it is.



And of course there was the back and forth between boring and I. I didn't feel the need to quote any of it since pretty much everyone has commented on it at some point.
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Post Post #686 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:03 am

Post by podoboq »

Hey Chickadee, could you talk about something other than boring when you're done?

Like, I get it, you think she's scum. Do you have any other opinions in this game? Please talk about those. Talk to me about massive.
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Post Post #687 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:28 am

Post by Creature »

In post 683, podoboq wrote:
In post 682, GinghamDog wrote:It's starting to feel like someone WANTS us to no-lynch.
We've got almost two days, and massive is l-2. Calm down.
Still, we gotta have a backup incase we decide to not lynch massive.
Sigh
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Post Post #688 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:29 am

Post by Chickadee »

In post 663, Rautherdir wrote:UNVOTE:
Chickadee, why did you put boring as definitely scum?
In post 686, podoboq wrote:Hey Chickadee, could you talk about something other than boring when you're done?

Like, I get it, you think she's scum. Do you have any other opinions in this game? Please talk about those. Talk to me about massive.
Would love to in a bit. My previous post was a response to the post quoted here.
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Post Post #689 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:29 am

Post by massive »

In post 678, GinghamDog wrote:He's been semi-lurky, engages a little but never takes it too far, moves his vote with the flow... It looks survivalist to me.
I .. am not a prolific poster in any game, as any alignment, but I produced a case on Chickadee that still points to her being scum, I've moved my vote exactly once outside of RVS (to you by the way) and then moved it back because the wagon died, back to (surprise) the person who is my top scumread, and survivalism (as noted by Chickadee) is NAI. Would you like to have another shot at a case against me?
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Post Post #690 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Rautherdir »

In post 680, GinghamDog wrote:
In post 679, Rautherdir wrote:... Snarky has been posting in one of my other games. I gave him a few hours to catch up here and post, but he does not seem to want to enter this game and I cannot think of a good reason why.
VOTE: Snarky Snowman
Really? After you said this?
In post 612, Rautherdir wrote:[sarcasm]Yes. Let's get yet another wagon formed. This will work wonderfully and we will definitely have enough time to decide on a lynch.[/sarcasm]
Sarcasm tags added for clarification.
In post 684, eagerSnake wrote:
Reminder that discussion of ongoing games is not allowed.
I know. I read the rules on that to make sure that what I posted did not violate that rule.
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Post Post #691 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:42 am

Post by TheBrie »

Ugh. I've lost confidence in all these wagons and don't know where to find another one. I had considered the possibility of Massive being scum before he got wagoned, but could never find any actual proof until he didn't explain a vote fully. Realizing he had been on Chickadee before makes that sound a little better.

I'm still interested in Desperado. When Rauth told us to assume Desperado was confirmed, I assumed he was the trainee. Recently that seems highly unlikely and I'm a little less confident. Though I can't imagine the two of them as scum partners either.
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Post Post #692 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:45 am

Post by podoboq »

In post 687, Creature wrote:
In post 683, podoboq wrote:
In post 682, GinghamDog wrote:It's starting to feel like someone WANTS us to no-lynch.
We've got almost two days, and massive is l-2. Calm down.
Still, we gotta have a backup incase we decide to not lynch massive.
The backup is Chickadee.
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Post Post #693 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:49 am

Post by GinghamDog »

In post 690, Rautherdir wrote: Sarcasm tags added for clarification.
Yes, I know. The fact you were being sarcastic meant you DIDN'T want yet another wagon to start late in the day, yet here you're doing it yourself. You missed my point completely.
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Post Post #694 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:52 am

Post by Chickadee »

Summing this up so it's in one place.

Massive highlights:

RVS voted GuiltyLion
Voted Javajoe for not finding me scummy
suspicious of me for the longest time
Only votes me after someone else moves off (I'm his biggest scum read, but he didn't want to lynch me, or at the very least didn't want to hammer, but he also never stated intent to hammer or asked for a claim. Interesting)
States suspicion of Gingham, says he could get on that wagon if one happened
Votes Gingham
In post 437, massive wrote:Obviously because I was
just as content being on Chickadee, but there's no momentum. No sense jumping to another dead wagon
, but if others see what I see, we can push something. Should be obvious really.
Why not push your biggest scum read? This seems really opportunistic.

Switching back to voting me seems odd. Quite a few people have commented on this. So I won't.
Looking back to see where he and GL agree. Hasn't commented on that since.
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Post Post #695 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:52 am

Post by Rautherdir »

Wat.
Did the wagon on Snarky completely stop being a thing then?
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Post Post #696 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:54 am

Post by GinghamDog »

In post 689, massive wrote:
In post 678, GinghamDog wrote:He's been semi-lurky, engages a little but never takes it too far, moves his vote with the flow... It looks survivalist to me.
I .. am not a prolific poster in any game, as any alignment, but I produced a case on Chickadee that still points to her being scum, I've moved my vote exactly once outside of RVS (to you by the way) and then moved it back because the wagon died, back to (surprise) the person who is my top scumread, and survivalism (as noted by Chickadee) is NAI. Would you like to have another shot at a case against me?
90% of your game so far has revolved around Chickadee and occasionally me. Do you have other things you can discuss?
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Post Post #697 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:54 am

Post by GinghamDog »

In post 695, Rautherdir wrote:Wat.
Did the wagon on Snarky completely stop being a thing then?
Snarky had zero votes until you just went back to him.
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Post Post #698 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:55 am

Post by Chickadee »

In post 695, Rautherdir wrote:Wat.
Did the wagon on Snarky completely stop being a thing then?

For now. Podo seems to have info that would place Snarky in town.

A Snarky lynch will not be happening today.
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Post Post #699 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2017 9:56 am

Post by GinghamDog »

In post 694, Chickadee wrote: Why not push your biggest scum read? This seems really opportunistic.
Couldn't the same thing be said to you? A couple times you had a main scum read but you voted elsewhere.

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