WWF Mafia: Royal Rumble (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #2225 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 10:11 am

Post by mastina »

Btw this is fairly universal I imagine but just in case, should be let known I'll be at least partially V/LA during today/tomorrow as part of festivities.

I honestly can't say by how much, really depends on what my family's plan is. (Which I don't really know.)
I'm guessing slightly more V/LA than a normal family night--enough where I'll have the chance to post, but the mafia game won't be my main focus and will be "as I can".

For instance: there's basically a full new page for me to read. If my family's plans don't start until, saaaaaaaaay, 6 PM, then that's
probably
enough time for me to read/respond to that new page. If my family's plans start at, saaaaaaay, 3 PM, on the other hand...well in that case probably not. (Among other things I need to do is write one really really long blog post I have pre-written, and then write its companion followthrough blog post. Which I anticipate taking an hour or two, and unlike this game, that's something which I SHOULD do before midnight.)

So basically: I don't THINK there will be a problem, but I'm letting you know just in case.
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Post Post #2226 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 10:13 am

Post by mastina »

(Basically I think that I might not get around to all of page 89 tonight, but I think we're not celebrating two days in a row and so Monday is entirely free. I could be mistaken there, really depends on my family's plans, but regardless I should be able to squeeze in SOME free time in there. Like maybe right now, though I have some errands to run first, e.g. my blog.)
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Post Post #2227 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 10:26 am

Post by MariaR »

In post 2223, gerryoat wrote:if you can explain to me how contradictions make people town, ill tr you
I don't really care if you tr me or not I'm shocked you don't but I think contradictions are more likely to come from town then scum (of course it can still come from scum but) Town act before they think Scum think before they act I feel like scum would more then likely look at there posts for contradictions and make sure it sounds okay to not draw anything to these self when town would just post

Something along those lines.

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I bet Maria is scum this game
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Post Post #2228 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 10:28 am

Post by MariaR »

RC saying Titus is 100% town is a scum claim from that slot do you know how many times RC brags about being able to read Titus like a book and this time he's magically wrong?

Yeah I think Tywin/Titus are partners it's just is it best to get the partners or look for other scums to help look for team interactions
I bet Maria is scum this game
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Post Post #2229 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 11:40 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

Vote Count 5.02
Tywin Lannister - 6
- McMenno, Leonshade, Mastina, Chickadee, Gerryoat, DodgeTheSaint

Not Voting:
Priscila, PeregrineV, Lil Uzi Vert, Almost50, Leonshade, Massive, Tywin Lannister, Majiffy, MariaR


Notes:
Because the day phase started on the weekend and because of Memorial Day, I will hold off on prods until Tuesday night... although I think if you expect to be gone during this time, a V/LA would be appreciated.

With fourteen alive, it takes eight to lynch.
(expired on 2017-06-10 11:40:00) is left until night.
Last edited by KuroiXHF on Sun May 28, 2017 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2230 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 11:41 am

Post by gerryoat »

In post 2228, MariaR wrote:RC saying Titus is 100% town is a scum claim from that slot do you know how many times RC brags about being able to read Titus like a book and this time he's magically wrong?

Yeah I think Tywin/Titus are partners it's just is it best to get the partners or look for other scums to help look for team interactions
when is it ever better to not lynch your scumread.
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Post Post #2231 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 11:41 am

Post by gerryoat »

In post 2229, KuroiXHF wrote:
Vote Count 5.02
Tywin Lannister - 6
- McMenno, Leonshade, Mastina, Chickadee, Gerryoat, DodgeTheSaint

Not Voting:
Priscila, PeregrineV, Lil Uzi Vert, Gerryoat, Almost50, Leonshade, Massive, Tywin Lannister, Majiffy, MariaR


Notes:
Because the day phase started on the weekend and because of Memorial Day, I will hold off on prods until Tuesday night... although I think if you expect to be gone during this time, a V/LA would be appreciated.

With fourteen alive, it takes eight to lynch.
(expired on 2017-06-10 11:40:00) is left until night.
do i magically have a second vote now? :wink:
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Post Post #2232 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 11:50 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

I'll fix it.
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Post Post #2233 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by MariaR »

In post 2230, gerryoat wrote:
In post 2228, MariaR wrote:RC saying Titus is 100% town is a scum claim from that slot do you know how many times RC brags about being able to read Titus like a book and this time he's magically wrong?

Yeah I think Tywin/Titus are partners it's just is it best to get the partners or look for other scums to help look for team interactions
when is it ever better to not lynch your scumread.
Well assuming Tywin and Titus are on the same scum team lynching another scum read can help with team reads it's a pros and cons sort of deal.
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Post Post #2234 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 1:06 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 2224, Leonshade wrote:So you think that KMD was converted from a mafia to an SK when Pepto switched partners? Why wouldn't he simply still be called mafia? I don't think he'd get a new role PM just because his partner swapped places.
technically there's no difference in his role. He is just .. a lonesome scum, so an SK. A one-person faction.

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Post Post #2235 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 1:31 pm

Post by DodgeTheSaint »

Oh ho Leon! I see you had time to do this, but not address this.
In post 2113, Leonshade wrote:
VOTE: Tywin

Is Tywin/Titus too simple a team? Titus doesn't like to bus and defends her buddies, but I don't think she would've taken Tywin's side so obviously. But I think Tywin is scum anyway.
Where do you get the Tywin/Titus scumteam theory from? That came out of left field. If we really wanted to go that route, wouldn't I be a better candidate to be her partner? I basically ignored her all game, and this time we're in the same thread! That's some distance I'd say!

The reason I quote this is not because I think the conclusion is right or wrong. I am pointing it out for your viewing pleasure for a specific reason. Look at it again. Leon just casually drops this theory by as he casually drops his vote by. How does he come to this conclusion? Shit if any of us know right? It kinda reminds me of what optimal scum strategy is in multiball. Post something plausible, but don't challenge anyone to think, and don't challenge anyone on what they think. Judges?
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Post Post #2236 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:04 pm

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Hi
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Post Post #2237 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:04 pm

Post by Priscila »

Why is Tywin scum?
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Post Post #2238 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:42 pm

Post by Priscila »

In post 2102, Chickadee wrote:I stated intent yesterday, and most people, myself included, are just waiting on day to end, so

VOTE: Peptobislawl
This is a somewhat scummy hammer... You have given your reasons, it is perfectly justified, but where is the emotion? Where is the sense of exasperation, if you want things to happen but nothing is happening, or where is the hope that you are hammering scum and fear that you are hammering town? OK, I don't know the context, so my view is narrow, but from the assumptions I can make, I am looking at this askance.
In post 2111, gerryoat wrote:I'm guessing titus was the vig and KMD was the mafia kill. but, that's just speculation here.
Who is the vig? Do we have other claims also?
In post 2117, gerryoat wrote:Odds are, we wont be able to find out who since pepto didnt really have that many posts. and partner likely bussed knowing they could jump ship after.
Why do you think this?
In post 2119, Almost50 wrote:5- KMD had no partner (no PT). He must've been pepto's p before pepto decided to align him self with the Hardy boys.
Were there partner tells between those two? Kmd should have a similar rolecard if that's true, no? Titus said at the top of the page that mastina and kmd were obvious partners... but he was a serial killer.
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Post Post #2239 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:47 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2206, DodgeTheSaint wrote:The reason I called it out, was because I don't think I made any significant posts in the locker room until it was mostly empty.
And yet you were on my readslist which was locker-room based.
I don't particularly remember the details behind the why of what generated that read.
But I do remember the general feeling.

You had posted but very specifically: NOT left a good impression on me. However much or however little you posted.
The simple fact is.
You HAD posted.
And because you HAD posted.
You were someone I got a read on.
And my read on you was not-great.

Because off of your content, what you presented was "not very great". It was weak at the time. Thus why you were higher up in the list. But it was still to the point where I thought you had a better than random chance of being scum this game. This remained true upon your entrance to the game, too. It's taken your continued posting to essentially step by step slowly change that read.
I don't have a recollection of doing anything serious in the locker room, nor do I have a recollection of you being in the locker room, therefore you having a solid enough read on me, citing vague things like 'Dodge doesn't feel right', doesn't scream genuine to me.
The thing is though:
I was in the locker room.
Once.
Page 8ish I think? Something like that. One post and I was done, I always meant to go back but never did. Butstill. That's my reference frame. There. At that point. I posted. And at that point. You had already posted. You made it onto my list and would not have made it onto my list if you hadn't posted.

And if I were to guess.

It is specifically BECAUSE you did nothing serious in the locker room that I scumread you.
Because the locker room was something which was plenty serious.
My reads were dead serious in there, and so seeing you not do anything serious in the locker room is VERY SPECIFICALLY the thing which made me think you'd be scum. Because you're not timid. You're aggressive. You're blunt, frontal, attacking head-on. Yet there I felt you were just hanging in the background...

...And even back then. I had identified that as a key scum strategy given multiball and Kuroi's announcement of the game being hard to win. (Game being hard to win + multiball = lots of scum = scum are going to try and maximize their chance of winning-->scum use a strategy which maximizes their lifespan-->staying out of the spotlight maximizes their lifespan; you were staying out of the spotlight.)
But I believe that as scum you're going to have to stretch your justifications harder than you would do as town, and that's what this, and a few other things look like to me.
Well then you apparently still don't know me NEARLY as well as you think you do if you'd think this is anything even remotely close to accurate. Because that's rats-ass backwards and if you did understand me you'd know why:

As town I have no fucking clue what it is I see. I just. I have to try and explain it. So I throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. I make shit up. I never lie, per se. I never spew bullshit I don't believe. But I am pushing things beyond the stretch of normal logic because I don't fucking do normal logic. I never have. I've just. Never been able to cross the language barrier. Translate concepts into language.

As scum I know EXACTLY what it is I see. I can explain things in crystal clarity. I can explain things flawlessly, because everything I do is already planned out in my mind. Because I know exactly what to say to manipulate people, I know exactly which words to use, and therefore I can fake logic. I can fake thought processes. I can show a fake train of thought and have it seem genuine because it is solidly based, it is consistent, it is shown over a trend, and it changes with a smooth transition.

Fuck!

These things make up like literally half of my fucking flowchart for a damn-good reason.

Scumastina is logical. Scumastina is precise. Scumastina knows what the hell she is doing. Scumastina has the game under her control. And as a result. Scumastina can present an argument with no flaws in it. Scumastina doesn't do stretched arguments. Because scumastina is streamlined and to the point. She uses ONLY what she needs to: nothing more, nothing less. So she doesn't make grand arguments which have leaps in logic that make sense. She keeps things rational. Because her pragmatism serves her scumgame well.

Town-mastina is the antithesis of that: chaotic. Random. Imprecise. No fucking clue what she's doing, nothing but a guess. She flails wildly with absolutely nothing under her control: not reads, not players. Everything she does is flawed because her perspective is flawed. She rambles. She goes on tangents. She gets distracted. She walls. She churns out endless amounts of things. Because she doesn't know what it is she needs to do in order to lynch the scum. So she's irrational, she leaps from place to place randomly and unpredictably, because she doesn't have the capacity as town to trim things down.

If this is not self-evidently true to you.

Then you're a fucking liar when you said you knew me.
Because the traits I describe? Transcend one game and are self-evidently true across all my games. And literally EVERY player who has played with me knows that to be true, if not at the time then with the benefit of hindsight, "Yeah, now that I think about it, she really was that way during this game".

Of course the flowchart's not the end-all, be-all of games.
There's always outliers here and there.

Butstill. It's a thing because it's a fucking thing for good reason.
I know literally everyone should get it by now, but my main is T-Bone, since apparently, that wasn't clear to you for some reason.
It's one of those "too obvious to be true" things, what with the whole hypnotoad avatar.
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Post Post #2240 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:54 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2215, MariaR wrote:I am shocked that mastina hasn't commented on KMD there strongest tr mason buddy status flips scum and mastina moves on without a second glance like nothing happened?
Yeah, why wouldn't I?

I've always considered serial killers to be honorary town.
I'm not sure what KMD's stance on the matter was (I'd have to look it up because KMD has in fact posted on the subject before; I'm quite positive of that), but I seem to recall KMD's stance mirroring my own?
As in, KMD sees serial killers as essentially being town, and plays as if town, even though they are technically against town.

And guess what? KMD got nightkilled by scum. Which means. For all intents and purposes. KMD was so town that the scum wanted him dead. Which means. For all intents and purposes. KMD was town. He had no scumbuddy. He had no information beyond what the town had essentially. He was an uninformed player. Just in the minority rather than the majority.

From a game mechanics role stand point, I am in fact treating him as a serial killer because that was his role and needs to be acknowledged as such.

From an actual play perspective, KMD was basically my mason buddy and that remains true even after KMD's death.
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Post Post #2241 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:54 pm

Post by Priscila »

In post 2125, mastina wrote:
In post 1506, Titus wrote:Chickadee hops onto another major wagon. Wow.
One which you yourself should have supported given .
I don't know Tywin very well... but I think he is prone to omgus as a player, it is null behavior to me.
In post 2126, mastina wrote:Chickadee's is another instance of scum scumhunting by the way: there's nothing wrong with the given reasons and they look genuine enough. But they have an aura of being inside a bubble. I'm not sure what word to use. They're not being forceful. They're just "there". Stated, and yes genuine, but in spite of being genuine...still being flat. Lifeless. If Chickadee were town, I'd expect this to expand outward, as it were: accomplish something.

Chickadee's reads as they were presented accomplish a few basic goals, being taking attention off of her, appeasing others, demonstrating she has opinions, and similar things. But they don't actually push forward a pro-town agenda. They don't actually have a DRIVE behind them. I'm not sure if I can describe this any better than that though.
I feel similarly. But I do not get the feeling that it is genuine like you do. Her reads lack nuance and there is some posture there that doesn't sit favorably with me. Also, the reasoning is weakly expressed and doesn't really seem to support the stated read. I am not able to follow her thought processes there. It does read like coasting scum. That said, I could also see this as very demotivated town, who simply does not care. That is supported by the sense of exasperation I get in the first line. Without knowing the context better - I have to read the game and catch up - I couldn't argue either way.
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Post Post #2242 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:55 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2224, Leonshade wrote:I don't know if a night vig fits a setup where every townie (so specifically not just VTs) has a vengekill.
Simple solution: a one shot night vig which is a scum power rather than a town one.
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Post Post #2243 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:56 pm

Post by Priscila »

In post 2129, Chickadee wrote:Just checking in for the day. I'm gonna let Mastina finish now.

Tywin needs to be lynched today.

Also this game got really interesting. Will properly dive in soon (not today, maybe tomorrow).

VOTE: Tywin
There is a bit of a disconnect here for me. You say that this game got really interesting... but I do not feel that excitement in your post. And you are delaying providing content. If you are suddenly interested by the game, do you need to wait for mastina? Why does Tywin need to be lynched today?
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Post Post #2244 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:58 pm

Post by gerryoat »

In post 2238, Priscila wrote:Who is the vig? Do we have other claims also?
no vig claims. no claims at all really. Tywin is a day vig, but used the shot already day 1 as RC.

If you want to catch up in a TLDR way. Just iso Mastina, she just caught up and her posts have details that wont take too long
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Post Post #2245 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:59 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2237, Priscila wrote:Why is Tywin scum?
In post 2196, mastina wrote:For Tywin: Just iso me. Control-F Radiant. Then control-F Tywin.

It'll save you a lot of time. Literally just hit a button. (I've customized the search a little so that you should see Tywin's name in pink.)
116 instances where I lay out reasons for Tywin to be scum. I'd rather not quote them all in a single post but I will if necessary.
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Post Post #2246 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:59 pm

Post by gerryoat »

In post 2238, Priscila wrote:Why do you think this?
Why would they stay in a scum team by themselves when they can join another team (or town) to have a better chance of winning?

ANyway, I TR fire, so you're town
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Post Post #2247 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 2:59 pm

Post by Almost50 »

@Priscila: Read his ROLE CARD ;)

And apparently, NO. Scum partners do not necessarily get "identical" roles.

This begs the question of: What have you been reading since you replaced in?

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Post Post #2248 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 3:00 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2238, Priscila wrote:
In post 2102, Chickadee wrote:I stated intent yesterday, and most people, myself included, are just waiting on day to end, so
VOTE: Peptobislawl
This is a somewhat scummy hammer... You have given your reasons, it is perfectly justified, but where is the emotion? Where is the sense of exasperation, if you want things to happen but nothing is happening, or where is the hope that you are hammering scum and fear that you are hammering town? OK, I don't know the context, so my view is narrow, but from the assumptions I can make, I am looking at this askance.
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Post Post #2249 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Post by Priscila »

In post 2131, mastina wrote:
In post 1630, McMenno wrote:those modkills wete completely unwarranted
VOTE: chickadee
While I certainly agree that modkills should only be used as an absolute last resort when all other options are expended (that, or have modkills be part of your ruleset, i.e. explicitly and unambiguously using the BAM ruleset where every player goes in knowing the expectation is for flakers to be modkilled), still doesn't change that you complaining about dead scum in this matter is likely cause for you yourself to be scum.

Dead scum is dead scum.
Doesn't matter what method was used to get that.
I think I see what you are saying, but I cannot agree with this. Perhaps if you are arguing that he is teamed with those players, but if so... why would he not complain in the scum chat? I think that this is null - expressing that you feel the moderator has not done their job fairly is not alignment indicative, I do not think.
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