Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[alban]

..snipped..
i am very confused
Basically, docs and cops are in this game, every one is either a doc, a cop, or scum. There can be no VT
However, it isnt a doc and a cop per night
Instead, it's randomized, like it could be two docs or two cops per night? Or does it go up to three? I don't understand this.
And then Sesq says something about being n3 doc and saying that anyone that CC's is lying? But then Aron claims that there can be more than one doc on N3?
And that CC's are useless because there can be multiples of the same role on the same night?
Did i get this? Was the reason why no one died due to a doc or to the mafia not nk'ing anyone? Do people do NKA? Does it matter when no one died?
What's the target pool/claimed doc? Why would it be a good idea to lynch all claimed docs? Wouldn't that just be a waste of a lynch and a town member?
Is Lunae town? Is Gamma town? Why did yall read Gamma as town? (or rather, why doesnt anyone see him as scum?)

So many questions, so few answers (or maybe i'm just stupid)

Since it's randomised, it could be any number of cops and docs on a given night. I am not exactly sure how the random number generator works, but just going by plain probability, the same number being generated thrice seems less likely than it being generated twice or once.

Sesq's line of thought has more passion than logic. I wouldn't bother about it if I were you.

As someone said, these are not really counterclaims, but just role claims. As you yourself explained, there could be multiple people with the same role same night.

We don't really know for sure why no one died. The most parsimonious explanation is that the target was saved by the doc (or one of the docs if all the claims are true).

NKA is an important step.

Three docs for one night is possible, but less probable, which means one of me, sheep and agent could be lying. If all of us are indeed docs, yes it would be wasteful and counterproductive. Which is why all pros and cons should be discussed.

Gamma is not universally townread. He is a suspect for me and for someone else too (I am forgetting for whom atm).

Lastly, do not think of yourself as stupid. Sometimes these games induce imposter syndrome, and it happens to the best of the players. Buckle up, and enjoy

[Almost50]

VC 2.01

Cooperative Sheep

(2): MuttonChopMagic, aronagrundy,

alban

(2): Sesq, Gamma Emerald,

Gamma Emerald

(1): Creature,

Creature

(1): Agent Sparkles,

Hellfire Missile

(1): Cooperative Sheep,

Not Voting

(5): NotTheRealPaul, Hellfire Missile, LunaeCinere, NJAC, alban,
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-06-18 18:00:00)
*Comm V/LA till June, 10th

[alban]

VOTE: Gamma

[NJAC]

I'm back. I need some time to refocus in this game, so I'll come with good content in one or two RL days.

Know that I'm aware that Sparkles protected me last night, so we're both almost conftown. I didn't protect anyone N1, BTW.

[Creature]

Cooperative Sheep claimed he protected Gamma Emerald (not very buyable).
alban claimed he protected me.

[Sesq]

i wasnt talking to you paul

but i would policy lynch

due to this claim i am officialy CONFTOWN

until i am killed tonight / someone tries to challenge my 100% correct claim

No you're not. You just are so off-base believing that a random claim clears you that no one fucking cares.

I was N1 doc and saved Creature.
This is the reason why I was a bit suspicious of Agent's claim.
Although there could be 2 docs, for me it's unlikely that there could be 3 docs on N1.
I would like to lynch between Agent and Sheep.

Any preference there sport?

yeah, but if im not being cc'd im confirmed town

..snipped..

feeling most confident about alban

Explain the statements in bold.

oh my god i just

AAAAH

i'm a moron.

thought the setup was like, only one cop/doc per night.

ignore all my previous stuff.

i still think that alban is scum regardless.

[NotTheRealPaul]

guys I want to be very very clear
I know i can't explain why properly so it sounds weird
scum!alban REQUIRES at least 1 more scum in {agent, sheep}
there was no other reason to claim there, he could've just lynched the town there and been meek
scum had to know town would want to lynch in 3 day 1 docs
so risking themselves like that *unless another claim was also scum* does not rock
I seperately scumread sheep and I seperately believe one of {agent, sheep} are scum though
so let's lynch one of them, right now, go go go

wait so if I get this alban ISNT the scum and agent or sheep are?

[Sesq]

VOTE: alban

well thanks for reminding me

but in reality, i just forgot. dont let confibas shook you.

i think it should be pretty evident why he is scum

Do I have to make another case to convince you he's town again?
I'm not sure alban would claim n1 doc as scum after aron's post.

>implying you did it at all

[Gamma Emerald]

Guys
Alban is very clearly trying to avoid the 3 doc claim situation. This suggests he has a very large stake in making sure he or another in the pool isn't lynched. I'd rather vote him since it's very clear he is scum no matter whether one of the other claimed docs is.

[MuttonChopMagic]

guys I want to be very very clear
I know i can't explain why properly so it sounds weird
scum!alban REQUIRES at least 1 more scum in {agent, sheep}
there was no other reason to claim there, he could've just lynched the town there and been meek
scum had to know town would want to lynch in 3 day 1 docs
so risking themselves like that *unless another claim was also scum* does not rock
I seperately scumread sheep and I seperately believe one of {agent, sheep} are scum though
so let's lynch one of them, right now, go go go

wait so if I get this alban ISNT the scum and agent or sheep are?

well, Alban could be the scum in theory
its just that IF Alban is scum then at least 1 of sheep and agent must ALSO be scum and I'm weary

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you say that? I can see him being scum with or without.

[MuttonChopMagic]

guys I want to be very very clear
I know i can't explain why properly so it sounds weird
scum!alban REQUIRES at least 1 more scum in {agent, sheep}

there was no other reason to claim there,

he could've just lynched the town there and been meek
scum had to know town would want to lynch in 3 day 1 docs
so risking themselves like that *unless another claim was also scum* does not rock
I seperately scumread sheep and I seperately believe one of {agent, sheep} are scum though
so let's lynch one of them, right now, go go go

let's assume both sheep and sparkles are green
there is no more conf town because they "cc'd"
I had already accused sheep
scum!alban has no benefit of faking there to me
unless, of course, another doc claim is red
then after we lynch said scum or him the other would be in a good spot instead

[Cooperative Sheep]

Well, we now know there's one scum in these docs, though alban is the most buyable claim there (not the most buyable nightkill).

We know this?
How so - I'd be happy to lynch in that pool if so - but I'm pretty sure you don't understand the setup (or I don't). Clarify?

VOTE: Gamma

Gamma is currently one of three players least likely to be scum.
Vote better.

[alban]

Guys
Alban is very clearly trying to avoid the 3 doc claim situation. This suggests he has a very large stake in making sure he or another in the pool isn't lynched. I'd rather vote him since it's very clear he is scum no matter whether one of the other claimed docs is.

Gamma, you are either not paying attention to my posts or you are deliberately framing me.
Every single point in your post is problematic
1. I am trying to avoid the 3 doc claim situation:
ISO me on D2 and you will find I have been talking about it non-stop. Like here:

I protected NJAC last night. We should both be near-conftown barring another claim.

I dunno if it's such a good idea to claim.
There could be a possibility that the scum didn't kill anyone. I dunno if that would be a small possibility to rule out, especially in a game with 4-6 cops. The only way a scum gets some pass is on a kill-less night and 1. if they are claimed to be protected by a doc; 2. if the scum themselves claim to be a doc.

And elsewhere.
So, no, I am not avoiding the doc claims situation. I am voting for you for your unfounded confidence about knowing exactly who I am.
Also, it's so stupid to think that someone forced me to claim and that's how I have landed up in this 3 doc claim situation. I did it of my own volition. If I really wanted to avoid it, why would I claim in the first place? If there's really a scum in the other 2 doc claims, why would I jump into the fray and raise the stakes of successfully lynching a scum from 1 in 2 to now 2 in 3? Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool and I have no patience to explain it to them any further. Even that Mutton fellow who keeps saying I am a scum but only along with one more scum in there.

2. Large stake in not lynching in the pool:
Coz I am voting for you? That's not a good enough argument. Obvious conflict of interest.

3. "I'd rather vote him since it's very clear he is scum":
And how did you achieve this clairvoyance? Elaborate.

[alban]

Well, we now know there's one scum in these docs, though alban is the most buyable claim there (not the most buyable nightkill).

We know this?
How so - I'd be happy to lynch in that pool if so - but I'm pretty sure you don't understand the setup (or I don't). Clarify?

VOTE: Gamma

Gamma is currently one of three players least likely to be scum.
Vote better.

Think better.
If you don't believe the doc claims such as mine, how can you believe whom I or others saved? Why is Gamma (or any of the saved folks) least likely to be a scum? If I am scum, why can't I fakeclaim as a doc and pretend to having saved my scumbuddy Creature? Only if all 3 doc claims turn out to be correct, you can have some confidence in the people we saved to be town. Even if one of us is lying and is a scum, all the three people who were saved on N1 come under scanner. And actually, even if all the 3 doc claims are correct, there is still a possibility that the saved people could be scum coz the scum may have chosen not to kill anyone. This is less probable (coz the objective of the scum team at this point would be to cut our numbers down rather than play it safely), but still possible.

[Cooperative Sheep]

Think better.

I do try.

If you don't believe the doc claims such as mine, how can you believe whom I or others saved?

I have not indicated whether I believe or don't believe your claim, so I don't get the point you're making here.

Why is Gamma (or any of the saved folks) least likely to be a scum?

I consider it *highly* unlikely that scum no killed to the point I'm willing to wager the game on it.
At that point we have assured 1 town in the three. That makes that set of three objectively bad to lynch within (the same goes for the Docs, but there is the added benefit that one of the protected *scum* wanted to get rid of [amd also makes that player an unused PR]) that makes lynching within that set of three objectively the worst value call to be made at this point.

If I am scum, why can't I fakeclaim as a doc and pretend to having saved my scumbuddy Creature?

That is certainly a possibility - you could also be scum that fake claimed a town target - which again makes lynching in the Docs smarter than the protects, much less the rest.

Does my stance make more sense now with that explained and not making up a value call of me not believing your claim for some reason?
Also, why were you so convinced I didn't believe your claim? Do you feel your claim sounds/looks false to people?

[MuttonChopMagic]

so your argument is there is probably at least one town out of 3 players
much helpful, many thought, deep layers

[Cooperative Sheep]

I wasn't advancing it as a deep revelation - I was asked a question about why I thought as I did, and explained it.
Do you disagree with my logic?
Or are you just empty attacking?

[Cooperative Sheep]

so your argument is there is probably at least one town out of 3 players
much helpful, many thought, deep layers

Also, to clarify my point, my claim was that there is one *confirmed* town in the three - so lynching in them is silly.

[Hellfire Missile]

I'm back. I need some time to refocus in this game, so I'll come with good content in one or two RL days.

Know that I'm aware that Sparkles protected me last night, so we're both almost conftown. I didn't protect anyone N1, BTW.

wait

wait

wait

wait
what
I didn't protect anyone N1
are you also claiming doc
what
what
and if doc protects you, you get a notification?
this seems off
can someone help
im very confused again

[Hellfire Missile]

Lastly, do not think of yourself as stupid. Sometimes these games induce

imposter syndrome

, and it happens to the best of the players. Buckle up, and enjoy

what is Imposter Syndrome

[MuttonChopMagic]

I wasn't advancing it as a deep revelation - I was asked a question about why I thought as I did, and explained it.
Do you disagree with my logic?
Or are you just empty attacking?

so your argument is there is probably at least one town out of 3 players
much helpful, many thought, deep layers

Also, to clarify my point, my claim was that there is one *confirmed* town in the three - so lynching in them is silly.

there is no *confirmed* town here
if scum is one of the d1 cop claims then no killing conf towns them, you see?
yes it's unlikely but guess what
sure there's at least one of them that is close to conf town but
that isn't even close to a reason to not lynch any of them
and why did you consider gamma a good protect? if you said I don't rem

[alban]

Why is Gamma (or any of the saved folks) least likely to be a scum?

I consider it *highly* unlikely that scum no killed to the point I'm willing to wager the game on it.
At that point we have assured 1 town in the three. That makes that set of three objectively bad to lynch within (the same goes for the Docs, but there is the added benefit that one of the protected *scum* wanted to get rid of [amd also makes that player an unused PR]) that makes lynching within that set of three objectively the worst value call to be made at this point.

If I am scum, why can't I fakeclaim as a doc and pretend to having saved my scumbuddy Creature?

That is certainly a possibility - you could also be scum that fake claimed a town target - which again makes lynching in the Docs smarter than the protects, much less the rest.

I kinda agree with your first sentence, but your interpretation after that is messed up. If scum targeted a player that was saved, the doc claim that saved that targeted player is also correct. Which makes it equally bad to lynch within either of the pools. If you believe that docs' claims are fake, the people they saved need not be townie as well. Which makes lynching in either of the pools equally good or bad.

Does my stance make more sense now with that explained and not making up a value call of me not believing your claim for some reason?
Also, why were you so convinced I didn't believe your claim? Do you feel your claim sounds/looks false to people?

The point of writing 714 had nothing to do with proving my claim. I know who I am. You don't. Obviously you will be suspicious. On my part, I don't give two hoots. I was merely pointing out the logical inconsistency in your and others' arguments that Gamma and the other two are almost confirmed citizens. Coz they are not.

[NotTheRealPaul]

Ive changed my mind on alban. I like his recent posting so far.

[Cooperative Sheep]

there is no *confirmed* town here
if scum is one of the d1 cop claims then no killing conf towns them, you see?

yes it's unlikely but guess what

sure there's at least one of them that is close to conf town but
that isn't even close to a reason to not lynch any of them

and why did you consider gamma a good protect? if you said I don't rem

I never said I didn't remember anything about Gamma or my protect on him - so I don't get your point here.
Gamma, I thought was a good protect due to being my strongest town read. Any Doc protect other than that is inherently silly anyways.

If scum targeted a player that was saved, the doc claim that saved that targeted player is also correct. Which makes it equally bad to lynch within either of the pools.

That is incorrect, even going with both being equally confirmed you have the following adjustments;
1. The protected haven't used their power yet - making them a worse option to lynch.
2. Scum wanted to remove the protected, not the Doc, making the protected a worse option to lynch.

So if you are daft enough to want to lynch in either pool, the Doc pool is the smarter pool to lynch from.

Do you town read Hellfire?

The point of writing 714 had nothing to do with proving my claim. I know who I am. You don't. Obviously you will be suspicious. On my part, I don't give two hoots. I was merely pointing out the logical inconsistency in your and others' arguments that Gamma and the other two are almost confirmed citizens. Coz they are not.

It just felt weird because you were acting like I didn't believe it - I had literally said nothing about your claim at that point, so why defend it to me like I had?