WWF Mafia: Royal Rumble (GAME OVER)

[gerryoat]

Almost, you're town with bad reads. But it's ok

[mastina]

I'm here. Are we using any of the nine days or I'm I just supposed to hammer?

Like.
This is showing an awareness of the gamestate.
PeregrineV is demonstrating with a comment like this that he knows what's going on. He knows what's happening in the game.

Yet he's doing nothing. He's making no comments, whatsoever.

I'm pretty sure that's scum from him.

[Almost50]

Would totally love to hydra some time, too, if you'd be down for that. (I anticipate more free time once finals for college finish.)

YES.

I typically make a rule that's, "Partner creates the account/handles account settings, partner selects the game, I approve of these things" rule for hydra partners. Name the time, name the game, name the account, and I will play. <3

That's precisely why we're never going to hydra together, because I too would leave the hydra creation and name to my p.

[mastina]

I'll give this game love tomorrow.

You're missing out.
We're practically having an orgy in here.

[mastina]

And I caught up. <3

[mastina]

(I will SO owe Jae a shower of love. <3)

[Almost50]

Almost, you're town with bad reads. But it's ok

Are you trying to pocket me now? You challenged me to quote where you expressed a TOWN READ on Chicka, and I delivered. I even gave you MUCH MOTE that you would or could have asked for, and elaborated on my case adding whom I think your partner is, and THIS is your reaction???

[DodgeTheSaint]

What the fuck type of nightkill is that? The only reason I see that being a thing is massive was a threat to someone or it was to kill someone for no info but the ladder feels weak.

Umm...why are you trying to justify the nightkill?

Placeholder for a response depending on whether this was addressed or not...

-

So, of particular interest to me are a couple of things. One, the Maria thing I quoted above.

Two, pages 96-99 (not sure of exact start or end) where Leonshade suddenly is a player is this game! Would you look at that! (no Peregrine sightings though!) Why does this bother me? Well, you could see pages 1 through 95, where Leon is decidedly not a player in this game. But let me review specific things that bother me. I'm not saying everything bothers me, because as I've pointed out to players before (HI A50, mastina) not every post is alignment indicative.

The first thing that bothered me was the random 'Titus/Tywin are scum' together thing. I'm mostly fine with the response I eventually got, but I had to fight hard to get it. Now, this game has 2500+ posts, so it is reasonable that people miss things addressed at one another. In fact, as I was writing this I noticed that he asked something of me to which I missed.

In response to #2020, I asked Titus because I was interested in seeing how far she'd go. Notice that the vote quoted was not my first vote on Mastina, but my second, after I had unvoted after the bulk of mastina's catch up. At the time I think I was still wrestling with 'why has she not been forced replaced or modkilled?/huge coincidence? that she only starts her catch-up the moment she is in actual danger'. But I don't want to go into it and get another diatrade from mastina about how she plays a specific way and blah blah blah. Also, this isn't really about her.

Back to Leon. So to recap, his response to my inquiry about his scumteam theory, that isn't a problem. Other than the nice panic at the end 'oh how else have I been scum in your esteemed opinion?' dripping with sarcasm to prove how ready he is for me to dissect his ISO, or something. I can view it as a minor 'he's shining a spotlight on me, I don't like it, I better deflect it quick.'

So, before my internet went out + IRL issues between my post at Maria earlier in the day, I was following along with the thread. So here's what bothers me. I had to pull teeth to get Leon to answer for one thing, and then suddenly for five pages, he becomes the most active player in the game? Now fine, it could be just a coincidence. But it got weird for me in a few specific instances.

Then I get a little de ja vu. I asked when I entered the game 'why isn't something being done about RC?', to which Chickadee (ha, I know, right?) went 'yeah why isn't anyone doing anything about it?' (she's also repeated my questions several times this game in the guise of 'sheeping Dodge lol', but this is a tangent). I start this day phase challenging MariaR (and not gerry or A50 for unrelated reasons) on her comments about the nightkill. Didn't get to follow through the way I wanted to, and the comment was about assessing Maria, but I want to note that for a specific reason.

TWO posts later, Leon goes down a similar path. Except he jumps to the obvious conclusion. That Maria(or A50/Gerry) are complaining because they tried to make a kill! Wait, when I said 'he jumps to the obvious conclusion' I meant 'he jumps to the obvious conclusion to manipulate how the other players should think about this'. This isn't anyone's first mafia game, we all know that there is a fallacy where 'scum will complain/compliment night results that aren't what they wanted'. Does this actually happen outside of newbie queues? Most likely not. But it would sure be nice if we associated this specific scumtell to some players.

This post is already getting long, but similar to Gerry, I want to demonstrate an overarching theme to Leon. Because these two examples, by themselves in a vacuum, aren't that bad.

The third part of Leon's theme comes from his readslist a few posts later. This one, I know certain players are going to disagree with me (and I argued with mastina already). I never see a readslist and think 'this is coming from town'. I hate things that can appear to be set in stone, but in fact, can be easily and effortlessly manipulated (meta and VCA fall under this category).

Now, that doesn't make the opposite better. Before someone points out 'but T-Bone you go after people for fencesitting!'...these two things are not on the same spectrum. Basically, yes Leon provides a complete readslist, and a sane initial impression should be 'this is good, he's nailed down to a position, because he is genuinely town'. But, reread his read's list on #2444 and #2450. Is he REALLY nailed down to a position on anyone? First, he hedges by saying 'it would not surprise me if everyone flips scum'. This would be a sane position to take, on Day 3 maybe. More on this in a moment, but the massive kill to me, proves why this isn't a sane position. A 'safe' position, sure. Which is funny, because, in his criticism of Chickadee, he accuses her of 'playing safe'. You could use the same paragraph he wrote to describe...Leonshade.

What bothers me most is the hedging on his reads. He hedges on his townreads not named Priscilla, mastina, and Dodge. I know the three of us get the most amount of townreads, but do we honestly deserve it? Because his stated reasons boil down to 'why would scum-them do this?' And the answer to that question is obvious. Compare and contrasts the reasons Priscilla thinks I'm town, and the reasons mastina kinda thinks I'm town, to the reasons Leon says I'm town...and one player's reasonings stand out.

He of course votes Chickadee for playing like he is, but also hedges on LUV, McMenno, PV, and Gerry, and thinks Jiffy replaced someone. Along with MariaR and A50, he's left himself open to justifying himself on nearly everyone's lynch!

Now, I've cited three things about Leon that bother me. If three different players had each done one of these things, I probably wouldn't commit to such a large post on them individually. Together, this is a narrative of manipulation. After essentially starting the Chickadee wagon, Leon has slunk back into the shadows. Also, this quote is very telling 'I've been on autopilot in this game for a few in-game days now, and there's been no reason not to do so.'. Does town say this?

Anyway, just wanted to get those thoughts about Leon out there.

Let's move to this...

What the fuck type of nightkill is that? The only reason I see that being a thing is massive was a threat to someone or it was to kill someone for no info but the ladder feels weak.

Umm...why are you trying to justify the nightkill?

Because it was from someone not town and a kill like that makes 0 sense so I'm trying to get in the mindset on why that kill would be made.

Glad to see Maria addressed this. Now, as I pointed out, the obvious manipulating thing to do would be to go 'well, only scum would be worried about how much sense a nightkill makes'. I don't particularly care.

Massive's flip proves why he was killed. I noticed that mastina already explained this in some detail, but let's bring all my thoughts full circle. Massive had access to the nightkill. Scum knew this. Why? Because massive was kind enough to claim a night kill after he had met his win condition. Since massive had done that, another half dozen players with access to the night kill have been killed (before he was). What does this tell us about the gamestate? That there are very few scum left (or at least the scumplayer who made this kill believes that to be true). If you can get to the point where you are the only player making the nightkill all of a sudden, you've struck gold. I suspected sooner or later after this revelation that scum would kill him in order to take ownership of the kill. So I think that's what happened here.

I don't know what the reactions of everyone to this pre-mastina explaining it means to those players, but certainly it means something.

I'm not going to vote Leon, Chickadee, or Gerry right now though. There's a good reason why. While I was typing this post up, more posts were made.

[gerryoat]

Dude I called you town like 4 game days ago lol

[Almost50]

I'll give this game love tomorrow.

You're missing out.
We're practically having an orgy in here.

If that's true, then I humbly request you retract the "ass" comment about me and call me a "stubborn dick" instead. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

[gerryoat]

Dodge can you give a tldr of that lol. If not I'll read it on the uber back lol

[DodgeTheSaint]

Dodge addresses minor things before the Main Event...

First, I forgot to edit out my placeholder lol

Second

lol I thought I had to catch up?

I claim whatever that was.

???? non comprende! Claim what exactly?

This is a joke, because I had the mindset of 'i need to catch up...' and then mastina does a phantom catch-up. Thus, I claim her catch-up as mine.

[DodgeTheSaint]

Vote: Almost50

20 points to the player who sees why.

[Almost50]

And I caught up. <3

WHAT? No comment on my case against gerry? Did it now "light a bulb" in your head? If not, don't you want to show me where I went wrong??

[gerryoat]

Almost is town

[Almost50]

Dude I called you town like 4 game days ago lol

I know you did. I was exclaiming about your reaction to the wall quote I did on you. You didn't try to refute anything in it. Do you concede you DID express a TR on Chicka in early game? Do you agree that you occasionally chainsawed her? Do you confess your overall play is scummy (despite it being subtle and done gradually)?

[Almost50]

Vote: Almost50

20 points to the player who sees why.

I give up. Give me a reason and keep your points!

[DodgeTheSaint]

Shush, you have no lines in this play.

[gerryoat]

And I caught up. <3

WHAT? No comment on my case against gerry? Did it now "light a bulb" in your head? If not, don't you want to show me where I went wrong??

I think you misunderstood the context. Tywin called me scum for not voting chick for being the next biggest wagon

[mastina]

Phone posting at work while waiting. I'll obviously read the content since my last post when able to, but wanted this verbalized before I can forget.

If there's four scum, then we lynch Chickadee, LUV, McMenno, and Peregrine. If six, add from my lesser townread pile: Almost 50, Dodge, and Majiffy.

Priscilla, Gerry, Maria, and Leon are all hard townreads. Add in one of the lesser townreads (or all three if we have only four scum), and then you have everything you really need.

Basically, I really, really, REALLY feel like the game is on a lockwin. So if everyone is ready, we can lynch Chickadee at any time. She is just scum. By play, by POE, by everything.

[Majiffy]

(Though in my case I lucked out; the one and only time Jae and I have been against each other, Jae was town and guiltied me N1 so didn't really have much guilt on either end because Jae was just doing what they were supposed to do and so was I except they did it better. <3)

Mollie, at one time, active lurked through a whole game because we shared a private neighborhood and she rolled scum while I, town.

She visited Buffalo shortly after the game ended and she said it was a personal hell, lol.

Mini Theme Legends of the Hidden Temple circa 2013? IIRC

I'll get to this tonight.

You know the game is fucked when

even the mod is prod-dodging

.

lol'd

And yet this is the type of shitty 'content' which I am saying

is very much the absolute most pro-scum stance to be taking

.

Oh

honey.

Compromising on a lynch to move the gamestate forward is an absolutely pro-town thing to do.

Chickadee has been

the

go-to wagon sans lynch for

days

. It is absolutely pro-town to remove her at this point, because otherwise it's going to continue to be a distraction. Plus we've had so many scum flips, I don't reckon we're in much danger and can afford a mislynch or two.

---

And if you think you're going to try to "shame" me into going back to playing a style that

literally got me banned for years

, it's not going to happen.

This is the new Jiffy, deal with it.

Also Mastinas gonna need top eventually.

Eh, probably, I do have a slight domm side but in general I prefer being a bottom.

[KuroiXHF]

Vote Count 6.07

Chickadee - 5

- Mastina, Leonshade, Gerryoat, McMenno, MariaR

Almost50 - 3

- Lil Uzi Vert, Priscilla, DodgeTheSaint

Gerryoat - 2

Almost50, Majiffy

Not Voting:

PeregrineV, Chickadee

Notes:

- I'll do mod flavor possibly tomorrow.
- Prodding McMenno.

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
(expired on 2017-06-18 16:55:00) is left until night.

[DodgeTheSaint]

Umm...where did all those A50 votes come from? I don't remember any of them? (other than my own)

[gerryoat]

Me neither? Pretty sure Majiffy and A50 are voting me

[KuroiXHF]

I did this vote count at least 3 in the morning. I should re-do it.