Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Kelvin Smith]

What about them? Help me lynch Math, bro.

You need to explain your plan here.

Let me give you a scenerio which is a possible out come.

We lynch Math - Math flips town.
Titus is confirmed

Scum night kill one of the cops

5v3 - LyLo with not lynching the person we wouldn't be lynching anyway.

Then where do you go? On Docs? No, because that's shooting in the dark, right?

Your "plan" has a flaw in it.

Keep in ind, this is just 1 situation, I am not calling Math and Titus town.

Why wouldn't scum kill me?

Because you'd be conftown, so they'd fear a Doctor on you. At least, that's my reasoning why I don't think they'll kill you.

[Kelvin Smith]

@Kelvin,

Look, let's be frank here. I don't think either you or Math is scum. I think you're both being stubborn. I'd still lynch you over Math because Math can never vote me and does nothing for PoE.

Creature was the first death after massclaim. Let's just lynch whichever n1 doctor didn't heal Creature and is not you.

Sorry, but no. Unless you can give me a non-read reason why we shouldn't vote Math, then I will unfortunately not be able to work with you here. If you're town, then you should understand that Math does great thinks for PoE for the rest of the town. As I'm sure you know, it's not just all about any one player's perspective.

[Kelvin Smith]

Titus, I think the town as well as the wolves posing as sheep are rounding around to lynch you.
The best move now would be to stop engaging with people and start giving a defense.
If you are town, maybe your playstyle is making you a target here. If that's the case, change the style. You are likely to derive more support that way I believe. I am conflicted about you and I don't want another mislynch, hence this suggestion.

There's no good reason to ever lynch Titus before Math. Titus flipping scum would confirm Math is scum, therefore, Math would have little incentive to lie about Titus's alignment if Math was scum. It's not out of the realm of possibility, certainly, but lynching Math first just makes more sense.

[Titus]

@Kelvin,

Look, let's be frank here. I don't think either you or Math is scum. I think you're both being stubborn. I'd still lynch you over Math because Math can never vote me and does nothing for PoE.

Creature was the first death after massclaim. Let's just lynch whichever n1 doctor didn't heal Creature and is not you.

Sorry, but no. Unless you can give me a non-read reason why we shouldn't vote Math, then I will unfortunately not be able to work with you here. If you're town, then you should understand that Math does great thinks for PoE for the rest of the town. As I'm sure you know, it's not just all about any one player's perspective.

No. Lynching a different doctor does just as much for PoE. Trying to turn the lynch to Math is scum motivated.

You said it yourself. Math has little reason to lie about my alignment. If so, lynching Math doesn't further PoE at all.

[alban]

D1 lynch was

Commknight (doc).

Wagon: Agent Sparkles, Cooperative Sheep, NotTheRealPaul,

Sesq (doc)

, MuttonChopMagic, Hellfire Missile, LunaeCinere.

D2 lynch was

Sesq (doc).

Wagon:

MuttonChopMagic

, Titus,

Vedith (LunaeCinere)

,

NotTheRealPaul

,

Mathblade (Hellfire Missile)

,

Navy (Cooperative Sheep)

, alban

People on both the wagons are indicated in red in the D2 list. Confirmed townies are in green.

D1 lynch was achieved on June 2nd. Till June 1st, only 3 people were on it. Last 4 jumped on it in the last few hours. Last 3 on the D1 wagon are common in both the wagons. So, they obviously need more attention. In the absence of anything else, I would lynch in those 3.

Why did no one die on N1?
There are three doc claims, in the chronological order of claiming:
Agent Sparkles protected NJAC.
Cooperative Sheep (Navy) protected Gamma (itlepip)
I protected Creature. My logic is elaborated in 689. Basically, there were a couple of players I didn't want to save, and out of the players who were reasonable enough townies for me, Creature had the maximum contribution to the game.

I am assuming Agent Sparkles and Cooperative Sheep have both done their research and have given reasonable logic for why they chose their targets.
Even if they are fakeclaiming, the choice of their protection will not tell us much about the veracity of their claims. What I mean is obviously they will name those people whom they were TR-ing on D1. So it's NAI. ISO-ing both of them shows just that. Both of them indeed strongly TR'd their targets.

But the choice of target to save based on how much they contributed can tell us something. Gamma contributed a lot, so I can understand Cooperative Sheep's choice. But what's not easy to digest is Agent Sparkle's choice in NJAC. Sure they placed NJAC as their strongest TR, but NJAC's contribution to the game has been dismal. Saving NJAC has two main problems: why would scum target NJAC for Agent Sparkles to waste their only save on a player like NJAC and waste their one power throughout the game? Secondly, what difference would it make to the game if NJAC was dead? Almost everyone was worthier enough to save. Different people could have different criteria to choose whom to save, but I don't understand why anyone would save NJAC. They had placed NJAC and LunaeCinere as their strongest townreads. If I was in their shoes, I would choose Lunae any day (even though as alban I would never do that coz she was my SR), coz she had more of an impact on the game than NJAC.

So

Agent Sparkles

is another suspect for me.

So, my vote will be on one of these:

MuttonChopMagic, Vedith (LunaeCinere), NotTheRealPaul, Mathblade (Hellfire Missile), Navy (Cooperative Sheep), Agent Sparkles.

This is more than half the people in the game at this point , but I am working at it. In next seven days, I will have dropped further names from this list to arrive at my final name.

[Kelvin Smith]

@Kelvin,

Look, let's be frank here. I don't think either you or Math is scum. I think you're both being stubborn. I'd still lynch you over Math because Math can never vote me and does nothing for PoE.

Creature was the first death after massclaim. Let's just lynch whichever n1 doctor didn't heal Creature and is not you.

Sorry, but no. Unless you can give me a non-read reason why we shouldn't vote Math, then I will unfortunately not be able to work with you here. If you're town, then you should understand that Math does great thinks for PoE for the rest of the town. As I'm sure you know, it's not just all about any one player's perspective.

No. Lynching a different doctor does just as much for PoE. Trying to turn the lynch to Math is scum motivated.

Considering I'm not scum, that's an inherently inaccurate statement.

You said it yourself. Math has little reason to lie about my alignment. If so, lynching Math doesn't further PoE at all.

Little reason =/= No reason. I could envision a world where Math lies about you because you both think that you are slick enough and influential enough as scum to never get caught. You are both so willing to defend each other right now that that narrative perfectly fits here.

Town Math flip does help PoE, because then we know for a fact that you aren't scum, so we'll never lynch you and we increase the chances of a successful Doc save, because Docs will have every reason to target you.

Scum Math flip doesn't help PoE, sure, but we get some breathing room to find some more scum, so that's irrelevant.

[Frosted Kelvin Bran]

Could someone list the claims in the order in which they were posted?
Also, did Math claim to investigate Titus and what did they find?

I can't list the claim order, but Math claimed to investigate Titus and found her to be town.

[Kelvin Smith]

Could someone list the claims in the order in which they were posted?
Also, did Math claim to investigate Titus and what did they find?

I can't list the claim order, but Math claimed to investigate Titus and found her to be town.

Fuck me. Sorry again. I'm trying to use a separate browser for this game, but I fucked up.

[alban]

Why did you change your stand regarding Titus?

I can only be scum if Math is.

This seems awfully derp clear straining. Like how could anyone read and not know that?

Also, why are you trying to put me on the defensive? O.o

I didn't read the portion when people were claiming or when Math claimed to have visited you and hence the lack of clarity on my behalf. I read just a lil while back about Math's claim.

[Titus]

@Kelvin,

Look, let's be frank here. I don't think either you or Math is scum. I think you're both being stubborn. I'd still lynch you over Math because Math can never vote me and does nothing for PoE.

Creature was the first death after massclaim. Let's just lynch whichever n1 doctor didn't heal Creature and is not you.

Sorry, but no. Unless you can give me a non-read reason why we shouldn't vote Math, then I will unfortunately not be able to work with you here. If you're town, then you should understand that Math does great thinks for PoE for the rest of the town. As I'm sure you know, it's not just all about any one player's perspective.

No. Lynching a different doctor does just as much for PoE. Trying to turn the lynch to Math is scum motivated.

Considering I'm not scum, that's an inherently inaccurate statement.

You said it yourself. Math has little reason to lie about my alignment. If so, lynching Math doesn't further PoE at all.

Little reason =/= No reason. I could envision a world where Math lies about you because you both think that you are slick enough and influential enough as scum to never get caught. You are both so willing to defend each other right now that that narrative perfectly fits here.

Town Math flip does help PoE, because then we know for a fact that you aren't scum, so we'll never lynch you and we increase the chances of a successful Doc save, because Docs will have every reason to target you.

Scum Math flip doesn't help PoE, sure, but we get some breathing room to find some more scum, so that's irrelevant.

No reason you've said here doesn't apply to a doctor claim. Lynching Math gives scum options. I get they are annoying you, but that's not a reason to lynch. They get tunnelly.

[MathBlade]

V/LA til Monday

I will still be posting but VERY sparingly.

[Kelvin Smith]

No reason you've said here doesn't apply to a doctor claim. Lynching Math gives scum options. I get they are annoying you, but that's not a reason to lynch. They get tunnelly.

False. A town Doc flipping does not clear you as town. We get no conftown from mislynching a random Doc. And we still won't know if Math is scum or not, which means we won't know if you are scum or not.

If we get a scum Doc, that would be nice, but then we're still going to need to lynch Math later to either confirm you as town or confirm that you are somebody worth investigating. Right now, I want to know what your alignment is, because my recent interactions with you are pinging me hard and that's worrying me. So Math it is. If you want to join the crusade, awesome. If you don't, then maybe we can regroup and collaborate after I've dealt with Math.

If I'm wrong on the value of lynching Math, I'm more than willing to take a backseat for the rest of the game. But right now, I feel like I have a strong sense of direction here and I see an opportunity for victory that I'd rather not flush away.

[Kelvin Smith]

Why did you change your stand regarding Titus?

I can only be scum if Math is.

This seems awfully derp clear straining. Like how could anyone read and not know that?

Also, why are you trying to put me on the defensive? O.o

I didn't read the portion when people were claiming or when Math claimed to have visited you and hence the lack of clarity on my behalf. I read just a lil while back about Math's claim.

Does that information change anything for you? Have you read anything I've said about strategy yet? Are you willing to join me on a strategic Math lynch?

[Titus]

No reason you've said here doesn't apply to a doctor claim. Lynching Math gives scum options. I get they are annoying you, but that's not a reason to lynch. They get tunnelly.

False. A town Doc flipping does not clear you as town. We get no conftown from mislynching a random Doc. And we still won't know if Math is scum or not, which means we won't know if you are scum or not.

If we get a scum Doc, that would be nice, but then we're still going to need to lynch Math later to either confirm you as town or confirm that you are somebody worth investigating. Right now, I want to know what your alignment is, because my recent interactions with you are pinging me hard and that's worrying me. So Math it is. If you want to join the crusade, awesome. If you don't, then maybe we can regroup and collaborate after I've dealt with Math.

If I'm wrong on the value of lynching Math, I'm more than willing to take a backseat for the rest of the game. But right now, I feel like I have a strong sense of direction here and I see an opportunity for victory that I'd rather not flush away.

Lynching the scum doc is a much better option. If I lead a scum lynch, it does the same thing.

If Math isn't lying about my alignment, lynching Math does nothing. I also already know I am town sooo

It's a bridge you aren't selling me. Strategy from my spot says lynch you over Math everytime.

Even if I cannot convince you, can you give reads on the other docs?

[Kelvin Smith]

No reason you've said here doesn't apply to a doctor claim. Lynching Math gives scum options. I get they are annoying you, but that's not a reason to lynch. They get tunnelly.

False. A town Doc flipping does not clear you as town. We get no conftown from mislynching a random Doc. And we still won't know if Math is scum or not, which means we won't know if you are scum or not.

If we get a scum Doc, that would be nice, but then we're still going to need to lynch Math later to either confirm you as town or confirm that you are somebody worth investigating. Right now, I want to know what your alignment is, because my recent interactions with you are pinging me hard and that's worrying me. So Math it is. If you want to join the crusade, awesome. If you don't, then maybe we can regroup and collaborate after I've dealt with Math.

If I'm wrong on the value of lynching Math, I'm more than willing to take a backseat for the rest of the game. But right now, I feel like I have a strong sense of direction here and I see an opportunity for victory that I'd rather not flush away.

Lynching the scum doc is a much better option. If I lead a scum lynch, it does the same thing.

Yeah, but unless you're scum, you don't know who a scum Doc is, so...

If Math isn't lying about my alignment, lynching Math does nothing. I also already know I am town sooo

Unless you know Math's alignment for a fact (which you don't unless you're scum), then you don't know that. And it doesn't matter if you know your alignment nobody else except for Math and any other scum do. Help everyone else trust you.

It's a bridge you aren't selling me. Strategy from my spot says lynch you over Math everytime.

Then you and I have nothing more to discuss regarding today's lynch.

Even if I cannot convince you, can you give reads on the other docs?

What do you not understand about the fact that I'm not reading the earlier parts of this game and that I don't believing in reads? I have nothing to offer you. Math is probably scum. You might be scum. Vedith might not be scum. I'm not lynching based solely on those reads though, because that's a bad policy.

[itlepip]

blerg what the hell is this Kelvin iso. Going to go through all of their posts later tonight.

[Kelvin Smith]

blerg what the hell is this Kelvin iso. Going to go through all of their posts later tonight.

Please do.

[Titus]

@Kelvin, even if we agreed to disagree, I could always get your thoughts on players? Why are you not wanting to discuss navy and Alban?

[Kelvin Smith]

@Kelvin, even if we agreed to disagree, I could always get your thoughts on players? Why are you not wanting to discuss navy and Alban?

Who the hell is Navy? She's said exactly one word since I started playing this game. How can I have thoughts on a player who hasn't done anything?

As for alban, what has he done either? He's basically said some stuff apparently without being caught up and his lynchpool is based on some meaningless VCA that seems to make the faulty assumption that at least one member of the scum team voted for both town mislynches. The case on Agent Sparkles was pretty weak too. Even without having read the game, I can think of several reasons one might Doc a non-contributing player, from both strategic and emotional standpoints.

Why are you acting like I'm specifically not wanting to talk about alban and Navy, when I've stated before that I'm not reading the game from before I started? On top of which, I've said that reads are trash, so I don't care about them. You want to talk about your reads? Go ahead. But I'm not about that.

[alban]

This is the final straw. I haven't done anything? Fuck off, Kelvin.

Mod, replace me.

[Kelvin Smith]

This is the final straw. I haven't done anything? Fuck off, Kelvin.

Mod, replace me.

Hey, man, let's all settle down for a sec. I didn't say you hadn't done anything. I said you haven't done anything since I replaced in. You've posted 6 times since I replaced in. Like, even if I did believe in reads, do you honestly think 6 posts is enough to get a handle on you? It's not an insult, just a statement of fact.

[Kelvin Smith]

This game really can't afford anymore replacements, but if I have somehow offended you and this wasn't merely a misunderstanding, let's try to work this out, please. My intent wasn't to attack you. To be clear again, I have not read anything prior to replacing in, nor do I plan to. And since I have replaced in, we have had little to no interaction with each other. Under those limited criteria, I feel it's fair to say you've done little to impact me during this period.

@Almost50:

If alban doesn't rescind his request, replace me instead. I'm not going to be responsible for forcing another player out of the game.

[alban]

I overreacted.
It's Almost50's first game as a mod, so let's make it a good memory for them.

Mod, don't replace me.

[alban]

I still don't wanna play the game, but I won't replace out. It will affect the game for sure.

[alban]

Kelvin, what is your current opinion on people apart from me and Navy?