In post 2057, alban wrote:1. If math is scum, it brings Titus to null. They then are as scummy or as townie as anyone else, their budyying with Math notwithstanding. In fact, it is likely that scum!Math would not mention their scum partners name as a night target. So, if Math is indeed scum, it is less likely that Titus is scum. In any case, how can Math-Titus association be a reason to lynch Math? This could be a reason for policy lynching Math, but still not a good enough reason.
How does that logically follow? What makes it likely that scumMath would not mention their partner? Like, if anything, it's a super strong play that's very hard to track.
Look at the situation right now, from our perspective. If Titus and Math are scum, we'd likely never lynch Titus unless we Lynch Math. And even if we lynch Math, we still won't be sure of Titus. We could lynch Titus first instead and the scum flip would confirm Math as scum, but it's a risky play for the town to lynch potential confirmed town.
In post 2057, alban wrote:2. Your interaction with Math is a good enough reason for you, but not for anyone else unless you elaborate specific points that we cant verify by going to those specific posts. Till then it's your word against Math's.
I gave reasons and those reasons are verifiable. Look at my interactions with Math and you'll see that Math isn't trying to reason with me at all. Evey time I bring up why lynching Math is a good strategic move, instead of responding with why it is back strategically, they respond by calling me scum. Presumably because they can't find a whole in my strategy. Math did something very similar in
Shaziro Mafia during they end. Titus was basically confirmed town and yet Math continuously attacked her and tried to get her lynched, even though it was an illogical, unconvincing, foolish play. After the fact, Math claimed that the reasoning was because they needed to not let Titus control the game.
I feel like similar reasoning may be applicable here, as I appear to have entered a Math deathtunnel and that's bad for Math. NKing me isn't a great option to get rid of me though, because it might make people think there was validity to what I've been saying, so a mislynch is the most ideal play. I don't know how townMath feels about self-sacrifice for the good of the team, but if I were in Math's shoes as town, I'd totally support my own lynch if it had strategic advantages for the town, but I'd want to actually explore it to see if it's a reasonable play.
I'd also like to point out that people regularly scumread others for reasons that are apparent only to them. This is exactly why reads are unreliable and inaccurate. Making a case generally isn't about showing how reasonable your arguments against someone are, it's about convincing others to follow the same line of faulty reasoning as you. Sometimes you are lucky enough to have your faulty reasoning to end in a scum lynch, most of the time, you aren't. So let's not pretend that my reasoning for why I believe Math is scum matters a great deal.
In post 2057, alban wrote:3. Yeah possible, but it's also possible that he is town, copped her in the night, and that's why this buddying. I can understand you are skeptical about it, but I can't understand how you can give that as a reason for lynching Math.
The problem is that just because you know somebody is town, doesn't mean you buddy them into the ground. Confirmed town can still be wrong. And unless I'm much mistaken, Titus is well-known for being incorrect. On top of this, the buddying is mutual. Titus is almost as defensive of Math as Math is of Titus and that just seems fucking sketchy to me. Titus almost isn't even considering that Math could've fakeclaimed and then buddied her into being absolutely useless to the town. Sure, she talks about how Math might be a good lynch "the Day before LyLo" or at some vague point in the future, but we're essentially in the Day before LyLo right now and she's still acting like lynching Math is unthinkable because...? All of the scum team are Doctor claims? Like, that's the only reason I could see lynching in the Doc pool is good. Hence my distrust for Titus too.
In post 2057, alban wrote:1. Yes, Math's power is spent. But at this point, numbers are as important, if not more, than power.
But we're always losing numbers no matter who we lynch. It'ss just a matter of if we lose scum or town, which we can pretty much never be sure of. But if Math is a mislynch (which I doubt), they are the only good mislynch. Lynching town Math lowers the Cop pool from 5 to 4, as well as lowering the Doc pool from 5 to 4, as it would confirm Titus. It helps are POE tremendously. On the other hand, mislynching any Doctor leaves our Cop pool at 5 and still only brings our Doc pool to 4. The only player that doesn't directly get that benefit is Titus, as her Doc pool should already be at 4 if she's town. But she does gain the indirect benefit of being more trustworthy.
In post 2057, alban wrote:2. Yes agreed, but then we will be killing a town to ensure the townie status of another town, and I don't know if I wanna do that. But this is the most pursuasive argument you have.
See, but that's working under the forgone conclusion that Math is town. Despite believing that Math is scum, I acknowledge that they may be town. But the same is true of any lynch. We're risking lynching town with any lynch we make, so it might as well be the lynch that stands to provide us the most information if we are wrong.
In post 2057, alban wrote:3. Yes, and it's a good enough individual strategy but not a good group strategy. Each one of us may suspects but we can't follow this strategy to lynch those people.
But see, Math and I are the most tunneled players in the game right now, as near as I can tell. If we're both town, then keeping us alive together is going to prevent either of us from firing on all cylinders. Except from a scum perspective, we shouldn't be alive together. If lynching me provided more info, I'd tell you to lynch me right now. But I'm still an unspent Doc so I've got more utility alive than dead. Math is a spent Cop and gives more info to us with their death than with their continued existence.
Random thought: I wonder if I should start compiling lists of everyone's egregiously incorrect reads at the end of every game that I play and post them? Maybe I can get people on this site to really understand what it is I mean when I say that reads are fucking useless. Like, the only way to change the meta is to expose why it's currently trash.
New main account for the Scummer Formerly Known as Hikari Link.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
