Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Titus]

no as scum I manipulate you into townreading the people I want alive and scumreading town. why can I snapread you but you have never even tried to learn to read me?

Can you stop the woah is me manipulation?

This AtE is a conjob and egotistical. You are saying you're so great as scum but wonder why I can't read you. Pick one. Either you can manipulate me to the point where I am rightfully cautious of you, or you're easy for me to read. Trying to pick both makes me feel you are grandstanding.

[Kelvin Smith]

Kelvin:
"If Math Flips Town, all Docs on Titus and all Cops on Navy.
If Math flips scum, All Docs on Gamma and all Cops on alban."

This won't fly.
1. If Math flips town, why should cops be on Navy? They should be on you or RC coz you are the ones pushing their lynch.
2. If Math flips scum, why should the cops be on me? They should obviously be on Titus who is fighting to stop their lynch.

1. Pushing a bad lynch doesn't imply scum. There were easier lynches and we've both pushed the hell out of this lynch. But notice how both the Math and Navy wagons have stalled out. To me, that's indicative that maybe scum legitimately don't like either. And you pushing for inherently bad Coppings strengthens RC's case on you.

2. Likewise, Titus can make poor decisions and still be town. It's true she's defending the hell out of Math and that's suspect. But this Navy wagon stalling out is also suspect.

[Titus]

RC id vote with u but Titus wont go anywhere. Also Math is a better lynch info wise.

Rn I'll even lynch alban.

pedit: sorry im just very very very pissed. apologies alban. I wuz out of line.

And why won't you lynch Navy?

[RadiantCowbells]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

[Titus]

Kelvin:
"If Math Flips Town, all Docs on Titus and all Cops on Navy.
If Math flips scum, All Docs on Gamma and all Cops on alban."

This won't fly.
1. If Math flips town, why should cops be on Navy? They should be on you or RC coz you are the ones pushing their lynch.
2. If Math flips scum, why should the cops be on me? They should obviously be on Titus who is fighting to stop their lynch.

1. Pushing a bad lynch doesn't imply scum. There were easier lynches and we've both pushed the hell out of this lynch. But notice how both the Math and Navy wagons have stalled out. To me, that's indicative that maybe scum legitimately don't like either. And you pushing for inherently bad Coppings strengthens RC's case on you.

2. Likewise, Titus can make poor decisions and still be town. It's true she's defending the hell out of Math and that's suspect. But this Navy wagon stalling out is also suspect.

1. Correct but being wrong this vocally makes you mislynch bait. I have been firm in not voting either you or Math for a reason. You're both town. You get a Math lynch, I am not going to be able to haul your ass out of the fire.

[Kelvin Smith]

VOTE: titus

this is the best move for the health of the game.

Look, you certainly aren't wrong about this, but let's not policy lynch here. People might actually vote Math. I don't think many are voting Titus. If Math flips scum, I don't necessarily mind a policy lynch on Titus.

[Titus]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

And you're trying to manipulate me now regardless of alignment in a slimy way.

You also know I am slower to pick up on things like that.

I don't like being manipulated RC.

[RadiantCowbells]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

And you're trying to manipulate me now regardless of alignment in a slimy way.

You also know I am slower to pick up on things like that.

I don't like being manipulated RC.

no this is me trying to have a conversation with you

in case you hadnt realized you never pick up on me actually manipulating you.

are you slower or have you never tried?

[RadiantCowbells]

i am typing one handed we would not be having this conversation if I was not upset: regardless of what alignment either of us are.

[Titus]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

And you're trying to manipulate me now regardless of alignment in a slimy way.

You also know I am slower to pick up on things like that.

I don't like being manipulated RC.

no this is me trying to have a conversation with you

in case you hadnt realized you never pick up on me actually manipulating you.

are you slower or have you never tried?

When you start insulting me saying I never try to work with you or solve you, it is manipulating. You're trying to guilt me into conclusions that have no basis in the thread.

You want to talk to me about Math scum. We can do that. Leave the politicking out of it.

First, why hasn't Navy wagon taken off if Math is scum?

[Kelvin Smith]

Kelvin:
"If Math Flips Town, all Docs on Titus and all Cops on Navy.
If Math flips scum, All Docs on Gamma and all Cops on alban."

This won't fly.
1. If Math flips town, why should cops be on Navy? They should be on you or RC coz you are the ones pushing their lynch.
2. If Math flips scum, why should the cops be on me? They should obviously be on Titus who is fighting to stop their lynch.

1. Pushing a bad lynch doesn't imply scum. There were easier lynches and we've both pushed the hell out of this lynch. But notice how both the Math and Navy wagons have stalled out. To me, that's indicative that maybe scum legitimately don't like either. And you pushing for inherently bad Coppings strengthens RC's case on you.

2. Likewise, Titus can make poor decisions and still be town. It's true she's defending the hell out of Math and that's suspect. But this Navy wagon stalling out is also suspect.

1. Correct but being wrong this vocally makes you mislynch bait. I have been firm in not voting either you or Math for a reason. You're both town. You get a Math lynch, I am not going to be able to haul your ass out of the fire.

Don't worry about hauling my ass out of the fire. Let me worry about that. We've got RC and Paul who know that a Math town flip doesn't mean that I'm scum. You apparently are convinced that I'm town. I obviously won't self-vote. That's 4 of the 9 remaining players after Math's lynch. One may die at Night, but that still leaves 3 of 8. That means literally everyone else has to vote me tomorrow to mislynch me. Considering Gmma's townread on me and RC, I really don't see that happening. Don't pretend like you are protecting me from myself, cause what you're actually doing is protecting Math from me.

[RadiantCowbells]

me hiplop and kats all agreed we were a townbloc in f2f mafia. we all voted summer. it took 2 minutes before anyone would hammer so she was confscum obviously. she flipped town and venged empire. we lynched ari then chevre and won. all 3 of us had been town who correctly 'townblocked'

[Titus]

Kelvin:
"If Math Flips Town, all Docs on Titus and all Cops on Navy.
If Math flips scum, All Docs on Gamma and all Cops on alban."

This won't fly.
1. If Math flips town, why should cops be on Navy? They should be on you or RC coz you are the ones pushing their lynch.
2. If Math flips scum, why should the cops be on me? They should obviously be on Titus who is fighting to stop their lynch.

1. Pushing a bad lynch doesn't imply scum. There were easier lynches and we've both pushed the hell out of this lynch. But notice how both the Math and Navy wagons have stalled out. To me, that's indicative that maybe scum legitimately don't like either. And you pushing for inherently bad Coppings strengthens RC's case on you.

2. Likewise, Titus can make poor decisions and still be town. It's true she's defending the hell out of Math and that's suspect. But this Navy wagon stalling out is also suspect.

1. Correct but being wrong this vocally makes you mislynch bait. I have been firm in not voting either you or Math for a reason. You're both town. You get a Math lynch, I am not going to be able to haul your ass out of the fire.

Don't worry about hauling my ass out of the fire. Let me worry about that. We've got RC and Paul who know that a Math town flip doesn't mean that I'm scum. You apparently are convinced that I'm town. I obviously won't self-vote. That's 4 of the 9 remaining players after Math's lynch. One may die at Night, but that still leaves 3 of 8. That means literally everyone else has to vote me tomorrow to mislynch me. Considering Gmma's townread on me and RC, I really don't see that happening. Don't pretend like you are protecting me from myself, cause what you're actually doing is protecting Math from me.

I am doing both. Because guess what I don't townread RC.

[Kelvin Smith]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

And you're trying to manipulate me now regardless of alignment in a slimy way.

You also know I am slower to pick up on things like that.

I don't like being manipulated RC.

no this is me trying to have a conversation with you

in case you hadnt realized you never pick up on me actually manipulating you.

are you slower or have you never tried?

When you start insulting me saying I never try to work with you or solve you, it is manipulating. You're trying to guilt me into conclusions that have no basis in the thread.

You want to talk to me about Math scum. We can do that. Leave the politicking out of it.

First, why hasn't Navy wagon taken off if Math is scum?

It's not meant as an insult. I genuinely feel exactly the fucking same as RC right now. It feels like you preach cooperation, but practice totalitarian rule. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to you, but it's what it fucking feels like.

Maybe because Navy is also scum? Alternatively, it's entirely possible that it hasn't taken off because of a combination of inactivity and a block of town voters who actively prefer a Math lynch. The thing is, if I had acquiesced earlier, you probably could've easily gotten that Navy lynch. On the other hand, even if you had given in on Math, getting the support would have still been difficult, though not impossible.

[Titus]

me hiplop and kats all agreed we were a townbloc in f2f mafia. we all voted summer. it took 2 minutes before anyone would hammer so she was confscum obviously. she flipped town and venged empire. we lynched ari then chevre and won. all 3 of us had been town who correctly 'townblocked'

I like townblocks too. That has zero to deal with the question I asked.

[RadiantCowbells]

then you missed the point of the story.

[Kelvin Smith]

Kelvin:
"If Math Flips Town, all Docs on Titus and all Cops on Navy.
If Math flips scum, All Docs on Gamma and all Cops on alban."

This won't fly.
1. If Math flips town, why should cops be on Navy? They should be on you or RC coz you are the ones pushing their lynch.
2. If Math flips scum, why should the cops be on me? They should obviously be on Titus who is fighting to stop their lynch.

1. Pushing a bad lynch doesn't imply scum. There were easier lynches and we've both pushed the hell out of this lynch. But notice how both the Math and Navy wagons have stalled out. To me, that's indicative that maybe scum legitimately don't like either. And you pushing for inherently bad Coppings strengthens RC's case on you.

2. Likewise, Titus can make poor decisions and still be town. It's true she's defending the hell out of Math and that's suspect. But this Navy wagon stalling out is also suspect.

1. Correct but being wrong this vocally makes you mislynch bait. I have been firm in not voting either you or Math for a reason. You're both town. You get a Math lynch, I am not going to be able to haul your ass out of the fire.

Don't worry about hauling my ass out of the fire. Let me worry about that. We've got RC and Paul who know that a Math town flip doesn't mean that I'm scum. You apparently are convinced that I'm town. I obviously won't self-vote. That's 4 of the 9 remaining players after Math's lynch. One may die at Night, but that still leaves 3 of 8. That means literally everyone else has to vote me tomorrow to mislynch me. Considering Gmma's townread on me and RC, I really don't see that happening. Don't pretend like you are protecting me from myself, cause what you're actually doing is protecting Math from me.

I am doing both. Because guess what I don't townread RC.

Well stop. Let me worry about me. I don't want you worrying about me and I don't need you worrying about me. I'm not getting lynched tomorrow, even if Math flips town. It's not happening. Guaran-fucking-teed.

[Titus]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

And you're trying to manipulate me now regardless of alignment in a slimy way.

You also know I am slower to pick up on things like that.

I don't like being manipulated RC.

no this is me trying to have a conversation with you

in case you hadnt realized you never pick up on me actually manipulating you.

are you slower or have you never tried?

When you start insulting me saying I never try to work with you or solve you, it is manipulating. You're trying to guilt me into conclusions that have no basis in the thread.

You want to talk to me about Math scum. We can do that. Leave the politicking out of it.

First, why hasn't Navy wagon taken off if Math is scum?

It's not meant as an insult. I genuinely feel exactly the fucking same as RC right now. It feels like you preach cooperation, but practice totalitarian rule. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to you, but it's what it fucking feels like.

Maybe because Navy is also scum? Alternatively, it's entirely possible that it hasn't taken off because of a combination of inactivity and a block of town voters who actively prefer a Math lynch. The thing is, if I had acquiesced earlier, you probably could've easily gotten that Navy lynch. On the other hand, even if you had given in on Math, getting the support would have still been difficult, though not impossible.

No. I cannot even discuss reads with you and get anything beyond Math is scum and you should listen. We aren't cooperating because there's no dialogue from you. No willingness to consider you might be wrong despite me making every effort to plan as if I am both right and wrong.

The town block mostly was on Navy until Vedith said to hell with this game. Gamma is leaning towards Navy. You're being stubborn about lynching Math because they claimed an innocent.

If Navy is also scum, then why are you so adamant about not lynching them? Math can never ever turn on me ever. I can force them to vote first according to proper lylo play if they are scum. They can be forced to not go off the deep end.

If you're wrong and I'm wrong, the game is over anyway because Navy will never vote.

[Titus]

then you missed the point of the story.

Enlighten me.

@Kevin, All it takes is one town idiot or you pushing another mislynch for it to be gg tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

scum aren't ever as predictable as you expect them to be: your subset of reads based off of 'scum would do x' are never right

[Titus]

scum aren't ever as predictable as you expect them to be: your subset of reads based off of 'scum would do x' are never right

And now you're talking down to me. My reads on town are usually right. My scum ones can be wrong from time to time. You've been wrong too. I believe even Cerb has it in his sig.

But it tells me all I need to kniw. You came in supposing I was wrong rather than actually talking RC.

But I will try again, why is Navy town? Why is she worth keeping alive? This game is essentially already lylo if Navy is town. Guess what, that means your Math lynch won't happen.

[Titus]

I cannot stop Gamma or Alban from voting you Kelvin. I can't force that.

So lynching Math is game over. Doubly so if RC is town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Doubly so if RC is town.

because you're gonna turn around and mislynch me like our last game?

[Kelvin Smith]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

And you're trying to manipulate me now regardless of alignment in a slimy way.

You also know I am slower to pick up on things like that.

I don't like being manipulated RC.

no this is me trying to have a conversation with you

in case you hadnt realized you never pick up on me actually manipulating you.

are you slower or have you never tried?

When you start insulting me saying I never try to work with you or solve you, it is manipulating. You're trying to guilt me into conclusions that have no basis in the thread.

You want to talk to me about Math scum. We can do that. Leave the politicking out of it.

First, why hasn't Navy wagon taken off if Math is scum?

It's not meant as an insult. I genuinely feel exactly the fucking same as RC right now. It feels like you preach cooperation, but practice totalitarian rule. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to you, but it's what it fucking feels like.

Maybe because Navy is also scum? Alternatively, it's entirely possible that it hasn't taken off because of a combination of inactivity and a block of town voters who actively prefer a Math lynch. The thing is, if I had acquiesced earlier, you probably could've easily gotten that Navy lynch. On the other hand, even if you had given in on Math, getting the support would have still been difficult, though not impossible.

No. I cannot even discuss reads with you and get anything beyond Math is scum and you should listen. We aren't cooperating because there's no dialogue from you. No willingness to consider you might be wrong despite me making every effort to plan as if I am both right and wrong.

I'm fucking tired of you implicitly calling me a fucking liar every time you say this. I've constantly considered that I could be wrong about Math, but I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if I'm wrong, because even if I am, all intellectually honest players (i.e. those who don't consider you conftown without hard evidence) will learn your alignment if Math flips town.

The town block mostly was on Navy until Vedith said to hell with this game. Gamma is leaning towards Navy. You're being stubborn about lynching Math because they claimed an innocent.

You think I care about what your townbloc thinks? I don't trust any of them, you included, either in terms of alignment or judgment.

Yes, in this setup, Cops that claim innocents should be lynched as a best practice. It confirms town (who can receive Doc protection) and roots out any scum trying to buddy/protect their partners. It's arguably the best way to utilize them in this setup.

If Navy is also scum, then why are you so adamant about not lynching them? Math can never ever turn on me ever. I can force them to vote first according to proper lylo play if they are scum. They can be forced to not go off the deep end.

I said Navy could also be scum. I was adamant then because Math's lynch gave us more info on a mislynch, but I'm adamant now because of principle.

If you're wrong and I'm wrong, the game is over anyway because Navy will never vote.

If we're both wrong, the game is still winable, we just have to course correct. And if we lose? Oh well. It's the wages of our efforts.

[Kelvin Smith]

then you missed the point of the story.

Enlighten me.

@Kevin, All it takes is one town idiot or you pushing another mislynch for it to be gg tomorrow.

It's still not gonna happen.