Open 694: Friends and Enemies (Game Over!)

[wavemode]

he asked Connor what do you want from me I think that's a very scummy thing to say

It was a rhetorical question... and what is so scummy about it, anyway?

[Sesq]

i think it was in contrast with transcend, who was actually doing stuff

you're really dodgy with the answer about all your reads being based on sun or not

convince me on sun wagon. currently im at "hes an oldie who doesnt know what new meta is so hes going off old meta and thats not working well" and thats town probably

I've given my case against Sun. I've also given cases against other people, I'm just not personally convinced those other people are necessarily scum. So at the end of the day if you think Trans and Echo and I are scum for believing Sun is the most likely scum here then... you've chosen your side, I suppose. Nothing I say or do is going to convince you otherwise, except changing my read, which nothing so far has led me to do.

Wow.

I gave you a very open invitation to change my mind and you flake

w. t. frick.

also i checked your sunchild read and it was incredibly inaccurate and a complete misrepresentation soooo stop

[wavemode]

also i checked your sunchild read and it was incredibly inaccurate and a complete misrepresentation soooo stop

Alright, let's discuss. What's inaccurate about my assessment?

[bombcat]

Bombcat, I actually would like for you to list them.


(Also I've been working on a readslist thing and it's almost finished. It'll probably be up in a few hours)

No deal

[bombcat]

he asked Connor what do you want from me I think that's a very scummy thing to say

It was a rhetorical question... and what is so scummy about it, anyway?

When mafia is frustrated and they don't know why they're under pressure they say what do u want from me. It's a classic webcam mafia scumtelk where people let things slip out but it can happen when mafias trying to be transparent in text mafia

[bombcat]

If anyone wants to lynch me they're gonna have to get theough boyfriend Transcend

[bombcat]

That woukda been funny if I typed it right

[bombcat]

Wwhy did my phone stop autocorrexting this is terrible

[bombcat]

he asked Connor what do you want from me I think that's a very scummy thing to say

It was a rhetorical question... and what is so scummy about it, anyway?

When mafia is frustrated and they don't know why they're under pressure they say what do u want from me. It's a classic webcam mafia scumtelk where people let things slip out but it can happen when mafias trying to be transparent in text mafia

Basically putting projection and perception above expressing whatever you think is important to express

[jjh927]

Please lynch this. I don't want to live in a world where this makes it to day 2

[wavemode]

When mafia is frustrated and they don't know why they're under pressure they say what do u want from me. It's a classic webcam mafia scumtelk where people let things slip out but it can happen when mafias trying to be transparent in text mafia

Hm. Alright, thanks for your analysis.

Connor, the (rhetorical) question still stands. I really don't see the point in pushing on people who I don't really think are scum, so of course my other reads lack effort.

[wavemode]

If anyone wants to lynch me they're gonna have to get theough boyfriend Transcend

Wait, what do you even mean by this? If someone wants to lynch you, they can simply get together 7 votes and do so. What does transcend have to do with it?

[Raya36]

Here's my promised readslist

Town:

Spoiler: ConnorJC

I don't like his entrance post. Maybe I'm thinking too much into it but starting a game by saying you're horrible at mafia might be an attempt to get people to brush off you're mistakes or try to make people ignore some of your scummy reads. "This post looks scummy, but Connor is just horrible at mafia so it could just be that". Let me know if I'm looking into this too much.
Besides not liking his entrance I actually really like the rest of his posts. He appears to scumhunting and I like his analyses and his posts seem genuine. I like that he is pushig for and encouraging more content which I don't see scum doing. Scum would prefer the random posting and fluff that was happening.

Town read

Spoiler: wavemode

I hate Transcend's play and most (all?) of his reads and logic, but he's not scummy atm.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ConnorJC

Why is your vote on Connor here?

As has been mentioned a few times by others 299 isn't the greatest of analyses. Basing the majority of your reads on your read of one player isn't a good idea. Your analysis would have been great if we did lynch Sun and he did flip scum but just assuming Sun is scum and reading people based on that is not a strong way to get reads.

I actually like Wave's posts for the most part. He seems to be putting an effort into finding scum and his overall tone sounds good. While I don't like hom basically assuming Sun is scum and basing his reads off of it he made a fair point when he said that he may not be alive D2 to post his reads based on Sun's flip. That said I would prefer seeing more reads based on what we know to be true not what we think may be true.

Town lean

Spoiler: GameNBurger

Nothing AI up until 272. I found his page by page votes kind of confusing to follow. Maybe it's just because it's jumping from player to player rather than just sticking to one player at a time like I'm more used to seeing. So you think I could get a readslist from you? Besides this I like his posts for the most part.

Town lean.

Spoiler: Flubbernugget

While he hasn't done a whole lot what he has done seems like genuine scumhunting and I like some of his reasoning so for now he can be a townlean.

Spoiler: Transcend

I'm honestly not entirely sure what to think of of Transcend. He's throwing reads all over the place but with very little reasoning. I guess I'll mark him as a very slight town lean since I think most scum would want to appear more towny than this but this is very weak reasoning.

stop bussing me connor

aactually nvm you can bus me for a bit since i bussed you for a bit, but then you have to stop after a while

kk?

help me bus sun guys

Is there any reason you keep using the term "bus" rather than "lynch"?

Also could I get a detailed explanation for all of you scum leans/reads?

Null:

Spoiler: bombcat

Bombcat has literally done nothing this entire game up until a couple of pages ago. Not enough to get a read from yet. Do you have any reads besides Wave?
Null

Spoiler: Mantichora

Again, a whole lot of nothing.
Null

Spoiler: Fenraiser

Not a lot of content here. Only one post with content and it's not really AI.

Null

Spoiler: jjh927

Nobody should be waiting for me because I am caught up. Ask me anything.

Since you're caught up do you have any reads or questions for anyone?
Not enough for a read: null

Scum:

Spoiler: EchoVision

I had pointed out a few things a few posts ago and I can see him being scum pushing for a mislynch.

People who've played with him, is Transcend usually this wrong this quickly?

him and his hydra buddies weren't this agressive when they were WW so for now he's off the hook and I'm sheeping him but since my vote isn't on Connor anymore it's going on you

VOTE: SunChild

not just a pure sheep, you can tell that I had issues with you before when I exclaimed you were reaching with shit and I didn't like it

I find it a bit odd he felt the need to point out that his vote was not a sheep vote.

What I said earlier

I don't like 75 but I'm not convinced it's necessarily scummy. I'm not really sure what to make of 99 and 108. In post 99 he had to have done some extent of analysis on me to come up with the conclusion that Sun was reaching but then in is next post claims to not even know who I am or what I have done. Where did that claim on Sun come from then? His next post he claims his earlier vote was a pressure vote which is something scum could easily do to get out of having to explain a vote. His analysis on me was alright. Nothing scum couldn't do but still alright.

Scum lean

Spoiler: Sesq

i agree with connor scum

VOTE: connor

Sheeped onto the Connor wagon with no explanation.

i still kinda think connor is scum but lol who knows

This could be her discrediting her own vote that way later on if Connor is mislynched she might fly under the radar.

transcend is conftown

I don't like this and I don't like how she's dodging explaining this then when we finally get an explanation it makes no sense.

I didnt was at the wave accusation

Oh, alright. Can you explain the transcend conftown thing then?

@Sun
Need to go over the game but I promise I'll post some reads soon.

because hes out there actually trying to gamesolve instead of pansyfooting around.

How's this make someone conftown. Not only does this not confirm someone as town at all but scum can easily fake this too. Do you actually think Trans is conftown or do you mean probtown? Also how is Trans even trying to gamesolve any more than anyone else? Actually I might even describe him as pansyfooting around. He's posting lots of one-liners, lots of reads, but I see barely any reasoning for them and I don't see any real attempt to explain himself. Can you quote some of his posts you like and explain why they point towards being conftown?

Leaning scum

Spoiler: SunChild

bombcat, you read town to me. Spare us your wrath plz.

Why is bombcat town? As far as I can see they have done nothing all game.

I'm not sure I like your push on Trans. The case in 123 is alright but when you started looking into other games I found it a bit like you were pushing too hard for a Trans lynch. I also don't like that you never responded to Trans who had resplied to you meta check.

This is not only a meta tell. It's a scumtell before even considering meta, which is why I've been suspicious of him from the beginning. Mafia are the ones who can afford to be utterly confident of their reads on D1, because they know the correct answers. Frankly, I'm confused at the reticence from players like Flubbernugget and ConnorJC to vote him.

I don't agree with this. Scum can afford to be confident but they can't afford to let it be known that they are confident, because they know the answers and they can't make it apparent that they know the answers.

Also I randomly grabbed a couple of Trans games and scanned through their iso. It looks to me like you were specifically looking for a game that made Trans look bad here hoping no one would look into their other games.

Town game: similar play to here
viewtopic.php?t=71047&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Scum game: also similar play to here
viewtopic.php?t=71353&f=55&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Scum read

[jjh927]

I mean I've mostly just been pushing Bomb so I get why I'm null and ngl I am not going to stop pushing Bomb until he becomes either useful or dead.

[Raya36]

What have you thought of Bomb's latest posts. I know from 384 that you didn't like them but can I have more detail?

[Flubbernugget]

Connor, I have already explained why wavelength's paradigm around one read is a good scum play. He can "reevaluate" his reads tomorrow assuming a mislynch, and town will probably give it a free pass because he's "committed" to that one read.

Sesq, if wavelength already explained his case on Sun, why are you asking him to convince you to vote Sun? What did you expect to change?

[Sesq]

also i checked your sunchild read and it was incredibly inaccurate and a complete misrepresentation soooo stop

Alright, let's discuss. What's inaccurate about my assessment?

LITERALLY EVERYTHING

either you're a liar or you cannot read. both are equally likely.

------

Raya's read on me is complete assfuck and here's why:

"Sheeped onto the Connor wagon with no explanation. "

what do you think "i agree with the wagon" means other than "i agree with people's reasons for the wagon"? do you expect me to just copy paste their reasoning? also, pressurevoting.

"This could be her discrediting her own vote that way later on if Connor is mislynched she might fly under the radar."

this is one of those easy bullshit accusations you can confbias out of anyone and everyone needs to stop using it. its natural implication is that town is not skeptical of their own reads which is WRONG and you KNOW IT. so stop.

"I don't like this and I don't like how she's dodging explaining this then when we finally get an explanation it makes no sense."

You seem to have no idea what a reaction test is

"How's this make someone conftown. Not only does this not confirm someone as town at all but scum can easily fake this too. Do you actually think Trans is conftown or do you mean probtown? Also how is Trans even trying to gamesolve any more than anyone else? Actually I might even describe him as pansyfooting around. He's posting lots of one-liners, lots of reads, but I see barely any reasoning for them and I don't see any real attempt to explain himself. Can you quote some of his posts you like and explain why they point towards being conftown?"

yeah, they *can* be faking it, but that require some actual substantial proof that they arent really believing anything they say. trans is conftown, and definitely much more investigative. short, quick reads without any explanation is about as far removed from pansyfooting as you can be

as for specific posts, they all fit into that archetype so it doesnt really help

also, you didnt quote my explanation or say why it made no sense


so yeah i cant tell if this is scum or confbias or what but boy is it sure duuuuumb

"Sesq, if wavelength already explained his case on Sun, why are you asking him to convince you to vote Sun? What did you expect to change?"

at the time i really didnt know, but in retrospect it would have made more sense to ask if there was anymore because of how spectacularly shitty that case was. it wasnt even a case really.

[bombcat]

I mean I've mostly just been pushing Bomb so I get why I'm null and ngl I am not going to stop pushing Bomb until he becomes either useful or dead.

Which makes u even worse than me lol

[bombcat]

Actually a lot worse considering I've made myself obvious town

[jjh927]

Stating it repeatedly doesn't make it true.

Do you want to maybe talk about some reads?


Sesq is town btw

[bombcat]

Not particularly but if you wanna go for it I encourage you whole heartedly

[jjh927]

Townreads: Sesq, Wave, Game, Raya
Townleans: Connor, Echo
Null: Transcend, Sunchild, Fenraiser
Scumleans: Flubbernugget, Mantichora
Scumreads: Bombcat


Now you're either going to talk about some reads or you're going to explain why it's beneficial for you not to

[bombcat]

Because I have nothing original to contribute and I think that town is already going in the right direction mister mason

[bombcat]

I will be disgusted if this guy doesn't die in the night

[jjh927]

You have nothing original to contribute and then you contribute something original