Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

[rb]

i wanna know wavemodes reasons for townreading mulch tbh

[wavemode]

You're approaching this backwards.

You

asked

us

for Mulch votes. I'm asking you what is so scummy about him that I should move from SD, who I do scumread.

I personally would not claim this early in a game like this no matter what. There's no way to prove the claim anyway so it doesn't clear me. It just gives free information to the scumteam since I probably haven't got a chance to use my power yet. It's better to just hope the wagon dies, like they usually do after L-1, especially when it is seeming like people are voting on a whim and not for concrete reasons.

[Thor665]

In post 846, Mulch wrote:
@Thor

I want an explanation for this post.

I expressed my reads and felt that the game needed a claim to advance to the next stage of discussion and said as much.
Are you looking for the game theory breakdown of why we should have got a claim already, or are you looking for a breakdown of a given read?

Breakdown of the reads

I liked Eddie for his attempt to reaction fish.
Una's ridiculous push onto Flavor felt brave enough to be blind town, but also looked potentially like a really bad bus, and I stated as much.
Paul I wanted to flip for his non-committal buddying behavior.
Sunlight I wanted to flip for posting a lot of words while saying nothing.
Flavor I wanted to flip for not having any real emotions to the push on him, which felt like deadened scum, and also because it was the largest wagon at the time and deserved continued focus.

You also skipped/missed my question to you;

This triggers me

Why? I thought it was a good post.

lol @ how no one has any good reasons to townread thor beyond his 'emotions'

I find those reasons to be just as weak as the reasons for scumreading me, personally

i feel mulch and rb could both be scum

Both of them have been aggressive in pushing me as scum, and you're still voting me, so...how does that work?

VOTE: Sunlit Diamond

and it's someone i scumread anyway

jolly good

You're voting the person I've been trying to lynch most of the game while not changing your stance on me (or really on them as far as I can see)
How does that work?

hey Thor are u voting mulch since he's the largest wagon and scumreads you

When have I ever voted someone for scumreading me?
If that was true I should probably have been voting you or rb for ages now, and I'm town reading both of you instead.
Any other straw men to waste my time with?

I'm also not voting the Mulch wagon at the moment because the speed of it building off the wagon on me makes me feel like it's just scum trying an alternate save for Sunlit.

1) I'm not claiming, so lynch at your own risk
2) sunlight diamond is town
3) thor is scum

Is your theory that I'm a counterwagon to Sunlit and you're a counterwagon to me?
Because the wagon composition doesn't support that stance (your wagon is basically my wagon) so that would potentially make me town and you scum or us both town, but how does it make you town and me scum with Sunlit also being town? What are the scum doing with their votes in your opinion?

Any chance you could provide objective reads of yourself? I played a game with you last year where you were scum and I was town, and I had early suspicions of you. I have early suspicions of you here, too, but I wonder if that is tonal rather than substantial.

I think it's impossible to provide objective reads of one's self. I can offer opinions on my play sure, but...?
And what sort of opinions are you looking for even? This is a very broad and undirected seeming question.

Why? There's no Mulch case. None. It's nonexistent

I think there's no real Ciara case either but I could be wrong, maybe someone could present it to me

I had a Ciara case based off their avoidance of commenting on the Thor/Eddie (or maybe Thor/rb) debate and how they were fake avoiding it.
I haven't seen any other cases offered, but I think my case holds water.

refusing to claim is town because___________________

fill the blank with good reasons if you can

Blank = lack of L-1+hammer intent would make the claim premature and weaken wagon analysis.

[UnaBombaH]

UNVOTE: mulch
Eh, Im satisfied.
I feel like I got all I needed from that vote, mulch seems like proud dodo.

I go eat now, and return with a better vote.

[Thor665]

I feel like I got all I needed from that vote

So for you it was just a reaction test?

[UnaBombaH]

While Im waiting for a table, I'll post for the hastiest:
I'm sitting here wondering whether its reasonable to vote on someone because you dislike the way they post AND their reads are opposite to yours? Im not looking for answers, just posting what Im thinking while waiting for a table.

Like mulch mostly filled these categories.
But I re-read his ISO before voting, and I was really getting a strong vibe that they will flip town after all.
They are just arrogant and very very self-confident, which I guess rub me the wrong way.

My vote was mainly a reaction test, for him, and one other player who didnt do what I was hoping for. So very meh-feeling now.
Maybe I was too hasty to unvote, who knows..

[skitter30]

I explained why I was voting Mulch in 1292. I stuck it in a spoiler cuz people get annoyed when I wall. I probably should have labeled it something like 'why I'm voting for Mulch', but I thought the content of the spoiler was apparent from the context before the spoiler and the vote after it.

Also

@mod: V/la till late Tuesday night or maybe Wednesday. Major Jewish fast day tonight.

[skitter30]

Why I *am* voting Mulch. Just woke up lol.

[wavemode]

You're right, I missed that.

You say you didn't like mulch's push on you. Do you think it was a scum strategy? Was he trying to get you lynched? Or is there a different angle to that that you're focusing on?

[MarioManiac4]

Spoiler: why mulch is scum and you should vote for him

ok so first let me point out that gut feelings don't come from nothing. they come from the subconscious mind. there is reasoning, not necessarily logical reasoning, not using common sense, but there is reason to it. it is not a random procedure.
skitter's post was objectively NAI. therefore, mulch faking a gut scumread on that was fake. that's the original thing i suspected.

1337 was bullshit. all he did was try to scare me off. he made this statement, but 4 minutes later he "decided he's not voting me." What a surprise that he wouldn't actually go and do what he said he would, and it was just an acting trick, I never would have suspected

In 1152 he tries to scare me off again because he still doesn't want to be scumread and is willing to be manipulative and act to avoid people voting for him.

1153 is literally saying "who cares if there are other variables?" like, he doesn't care about what's actually happening. and he admits to this. what he cares about is twisting skitter's words to his agenda.

1302 is like really scummy. he's not saying "i'm not claiming yet" he's saying "i'm not claiming, lynch at your own risk." he's trying to scare people off again. the only viable reason to do this would be out of spite. (not good reason, but a reason nevertheless.) he's obviously not doing it out of spite, because he's giving reads with his death.

this probably shouldn't be part of the case but 1303 is wrong; i'm not shading unabombah but trying to find his motives.

@1304- yes and i'd do it again.

[skitter30]

@wavemode: I mean, it was pretty obviously directed at you lol, but ok.

It felt like he was trying to get me lynched for BS reasons, so the push on me felt artificial, and like he was trying to conjure up a me/MM/Thor scumteam out of nothing.

[wavemode]

Alright so you think he was trying to get you lynched and that it was strategic. Okay, that's fair enough I guess. But surely you understand why I'm too skeptical to throw my vote there and away from SD for just that reason? He himself said that the read was gut and didn't make logical sense so it'd be a very strange way to actually try to strategically get someone lynched.

Furthermore, I can't really be certain mulch is wrong and that you're town so I don't know what to make of that as a third-party observer. Like, it's fine if that's your reason for wanting him dead but fmpov I can't be so sure. Does that make sense?

[Eddie Cane]

You're approaching this backwards.

You

asked

us

for Mulch votes. I'm asking you what is so scummy about him that I should move from SD, who I do scumread.

I personally would not claim this early in a game like this no matter what. There's no way to prove the claim anyway so it doesn't clear me. It just gives free information to the scumteam since I probably haven't got a chance to use my power yet. It's better to just hope the wagon dies, like they usually do after L-1, especially when it is seeming like people are voting on a whim and not for concrete reasons.

this early? as in page 50 something over a week into the game?

[wavemode]

This early as in Day 1 in a closed game.

[UnaBombaH]

Maybe noobish question, but I couldnt easily find an answer from the wiki without reading every possible role:

Is there a role in this game-type which would allow role/alignment investigation at the start of the game? Or during D1? I have a weird feeling that there are actually clues of people using scums day-chat OR SOME OTHER WAY OF DATACOLLECTING(??) during this day, and I need to know does that implicate scum or possible PRs.

[skitter30]

1. Can you repeat again why you're so sold on scum!SD?

2.

He himself said that the read was gut and didn't make logical sense so it'd be a very strange way to actually try to strategically get someone lynched.

I mean if I was scuum I would most likely have some bullshit reason I could conjure out of my pocket for why thor is scum

, but I"m town and therefore being honest that I literally don't remember why I dislike him but I remember really disliking him when I read the game

I swear if I was scum I would have some bullshit reason to say

, or I would just bring up the posts without saying I forgot lol

This feels exactly like the bolded. It was a BS push on a post that was NAI. He was finding layers of meaning in a post that didn't have them. I dunno why he's doing it to me and not to Thor, but it feels like he made it up.

3.

Furthermore, I can't really be certain mulch is wrong and that you're town so I don't know what to make of that as a third-party observer. Like, it's fine if that's your reason for wanting him dead but fmpov I can't be so sure. Does that make sense?

I get what you're saying, but I know he's wrong. And I don't want him dead because he happened to push *me*, but because the push was ridiculous and based on things that weren't there. And I also feel like you should probably have *some* sort of opinion on who's right after all of this. Like, do you agree with Mulch and think that I'm scum, which is why you disagree with me, or are you that certain in your Mulch townread that you just don't want to lynch him? Like, it kinda feels like you're trying to stay out of this debate and not give an opinion on it?

4. I have to go to work now. I'll do my best to post before the fast starts tonight, like on break/after work, but I can't make any promises. If I don't, I'll be back late tomorrow night or sometime Wednesday.

[wavemode]

Daycops aren't listed as Normal but I suppose nothing specifically says they're

not

Normal...

[wavemode]

I'm at a conference on my phone so if you want me to repeat my whole SD case again (rather than, you know, just looking at my iso...) then you'll have to wait for me to get to a computer, one of these days.

[Mulch]

@mod: Desperado Mario

[Mulch]

BTW I'm on a break right now but later today I can respond in detail to anything you would like

[MarioManiac4]

@mod: Desperado Mario

very legitimate fakeclaim much wow

[Mulch]

Will you be saying that when you die?

[Mulch]

Why do you think I would fake claim that as scum?

[Mulch]

It's a mod confirmable role and I wasn't getting lynched anyway. If I was scum game claiming I would claim novice day desperado.

[MarioManiac4]

no tbh i probably won't even remember it because it's such a common and forgettable """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""gambit""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

pedit: So you could say exactly that and pretend to be protown. It isn't exactly hard to fake.