Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

Reservation

[RadiantCowbells]

Still no computer access. Getting help.

[Ether]

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 2.34:

humaneatingmonkey (2): Dark Horse, Sunlit Diamond
Eddie Cane (2): Tchill13, Robbnva
Tchill13 (2): massive, Assemblerotws
Assemblerotws (1): Ginngie
Robbnva (0):
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Korts (0):
Sunlit Diamond (0):
Ginngie (0):
nancy (0):
Dark Horse (0):

Not Voting: nancy, humaneatingmonkey, Eddie Cane, Grendel, Korts

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-29 23:00:00).

Remaining posts count to come later.

[Grendel]

Catching up tonight.

Super pinky promise.

[Robbnva]

v/la for about 10 days.should be able to check in daily though, just won't be hyper active

[Tchill13]

OK monkey I'm dense we will go with that one.

[Tchill13]

We made 2 PR'S claim. So if they're not lynched they will be night killed. I wasn't saying we should have lynched one of them. I was saying assembl should have been lynched for reads and reactions more so than anything. I wasn't going to shoot him because I wasn't giving scum 2 FREE kills if he's town.

[massive]

Enough fooling around with other wagons, guys. For anyone who needs a reminder, go reread Vecna from Tchill's claim onward. How is the PR claim believable after all that implosion?

Scum could easily claim jailkeeper to try and accuse me of a false claim after a night phase. I'm not buying the vecna claim. Mainly because of his reaction to my claim.

If you had said "I also shot Vecna last night" based on this post, I might have bought it.

[Tchill13]

I thought saying what I actually did would be a better idea.

[Eddie Cane]

We made 2 PR'S claim. So if they're not lynched they will be night killed. I wasn't saying we should have lynched one of them. I was saying assembl should have been lynched for reads and reactions more so than anything. I wasn't going to shoot him because I wasn't giving scum 2 FREE kills if he's town.

VOTE: tchill

haven't read the rest of the game. if you're town, not shooting him was an objective misplay. we had a free idler kill thst woyld also confirm you and you didjt shoot. i don't believe you are town.

[Korts]

I did not use my ability and I am not claiming one shot. I wasn't gonna kill a townie on accident on top of the fact that we had already given scum a free kill because of the no lynch.

I mean, if anything, the no lynch gave us more room for town deaths. You could have used the kill to try scumhunting yourself, and give the town a flip to work with next day even though we bungled the lynch. assembler was at L-1, and I would have hammered if I was here, as would I imagine most of us who didn't make it, so we would all have welcomed that shot - then you had a monkey suspicion that was shared by others, whose flip would have helped clear the air as well - there were good targets for you to shoot. That you didn't choose any of them is baffling.

I mean, I was expecting you to blame Vecna's jailkeeping. It completely throws me off that you just didn't shoot at all. I don't understand how you thought not shooting would benefit the town.

[Korts]

VOTE: Tchill

[Sunlit Diamond]

I did not use my ability and I am not claiming one shot. I wasn't gonna kill a townie on accident on top of the fact that we had already given scum a free kill because of the no lynch.

I mean, if anything, the no lynch gave us more room for town deaths. You could have used the kill to try scumhunting yourself, and give the town a flip to work with next day even though we bungled the lynch. assembler was at L-1, and I would have hammered if I was here, as would I imagine most of us who didn't make it, so we would all have welcomed that shot - then you had a monkey suspicion that was shared by others, whose flip would have helped clear the air as well - there were good targets for you to shoot. That you didn't choose any of them is baffling.

I mean, I was expecting you to blame Vecna's jailkeeping. It completely throws me off that you just didn't shoot at all. I don't understand how you thought not shooting would benefit the town.

This post reads more like it's giving town!TChill a bitchslapping for bad play, than it does as an argument for scum!TChill.

What reason would scum!TChill have for saying he didn't shoot versus hiding behind Vecna's JK?

[Grendel]

^Sunlit, This wave length we're on currently. I like it.

I'm almost caught up. But I have a question for Tchill if he is around.

@Tchill

Have you played a town aligned killing role in a previously competed game? If you have could you post a link?

[Dark Horse]

I really don't like the huge double standard korts had between monkey and vecna's claims.

I don't understand this argument. Are you being deliberately obtuse? Vecna claimed after a bunch of scummy shit, where he exploded all over the thread, threatened Tchill post-claim multiple times, desperately tried to lead the town away from his wagon, and constantly misrepresented any argument against him.

Then

he claimed, which to me looked like another clear diversion attempt after all the others had failed. It was a bogus claim, even if it turned out to be true.

monkey didn't explode like that, and although his claim was early, it was nearing deadline and his counterwagon was gaining steam. Admittedly, at that point I was on limited access and just trying to get a Vecna lynch to happen, so I wasn't reading thoroughly - but I don't remember any blatant scumminess from monkey before the claim.

I have a bunch of things to do in the following days, so the reread isn't coming before the weekend. Maybe I just missed something.

See korts here’s the thing. I know the vecna’s initial reactions to tchill’s claim were wack, I was scumreading him for them too. However, once he claimed Jailkeeper, I paused for a second. I then looked back at his actions from the viewpoint of a jailkeeper, and things started making sense. Like imagine if you were a jailkeeper and the claimed vig/VI had you as your top scumread. And of course he’s going to avoid full claiming as much as possible because as soon as he claim’s he’s dead. Even though I can’t speak for everyone else in the thread about these specifics, I got the vibe that most people had at least gone “wait a sec..” after vecna claimed, and became hesitant to lynch him.

You did the opposite. It seemed like instead of causing you to back down, you just started gunning for his lynch even harder, which is mad scummy. Even now, you’re trying to dismiss being wrong by saying it was a “bogus claim.”

In addition, Go back and read where monkey claimed, it’s a mess of multiposts and conflicting actions before claiming that he’s simply a pr. It’s a weak claim, and importantly has a lot of similarities with vecna’s initial claim. Regardless of what you thought of monkey before that, I feel like claiming in a very similar manner to your top scum read is something that should at least draw

some

attention from you. Rather, you try to blame other people for “forcing monkey to claim,” (despite the fact that monkey claimed largely of his own volition) and try to tell people to ignore monkey and keep focusing on vecna. It doesn’t feel like an attempt at game solving at all.

VOTE: Monkey

I think the statement "same exact situation" tells me you haven't been reading. Make that move right now.

Same exact situation was hyperbole, but both of you claimed early, close to the deadline, mostly of your own will, and initially claimed “Town PR.” They’re very similar claims.

[Dark Horse]

Robb you should probably start reading because that's a horrible vote

Tell me why it's a horrible vote and who we should be lynching instead.

You only get one shot. Make it count.

Spoiler: Why monkey is scum

I can provide quotes if you guys want

Main Reasons
Weird OMGUSes
Only seriously pursuing lynchbait
Wack last-minute vecna flip flop
Wack interactions with korts

OMGUS:
Especially toward the end of the day monkey seem to target his push toward whoever was scumreading him. First you’ve got his “oh you’re scum aren’t suspicion toward sunlight,” then he’s willing to vote eddie for two posts of that including being willing to vote monkey (which he never follows up on), before switching to vecna, etc etc. In fact, if you go back, the only votes he had before all this was persephone (early vote) and tchill. Now I know you guys are probably thinking “DH, what makes you think he isn’t just noobtown? Noobtown also omgus.” The answer is because there’s one person who he didn’t OMGUS yesterday: Korts. Considering how reactionary he got I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t scumread korts for pushing him early in the day, considering mokney was OMGUSing people for far less near the end of the day.

Mostly targeting lynchbait:
For here I’m talking about monkey’s pushes before he started suspecting SD (his stuff after that I’d say is more reflective on the OMGUS point) .Excluding his early push on persephone, Monkey spent most of D1 pursuing assembler and tchill who seem to be prime lynchbait and easy targets. Hell, at one point basically his only reads were a townread on nancy and scumreads on those two. Though he’d ask a lot of questions, he really doesn’t seem content with actually following through and gamesolve. Like in post #123, he directs a bunch of questions towards massive, and says that one of his posts looks “LAMIST as fuck.” But then he doesn’t talk about this stuff for the rest of the day. Same with him saying that rob’s story could have been AtE. He’d drop slight jabs at people but at the end of the day only seemed content with pushing lynchbait, up until he started omgus-ing people

Vecna flip-flop:
I’ve talked about this before, but his reasoning for suddenly townreading vecna feels fake. Like at that point we didn’t even know for sure that we didn’t have a deadline extension, and considering that his entire 180 hinged on us not having a deadline extension, I find it hard to believe that he wouldn’t at least wait until something that confirmed we didn’t have a deadline extension before jumping the gun. The fact that he was so willing to push this anyways hints at two things: Either he was scum who figured that since him or none of his scumbuds had passed for a deadline extension, it’s would be very unlikely there’s a deadline extension; Or he could have been using the 180 because he figured it woudn’t be a vecna lynch and he didn’t want to still be scumreading vecna when he died and flipped town. Actually, it could very well be both.

Werid interactions with korts:
Mostly based on their initial clash early D1, in addition to other stuff I’ve talked about. I dislike how quickly monkey tries to appeal to korts to lynch Tchill, but I REALLY don’t like how korts then immediately backs off. He claims that he was “more interested in what others have to say” but he doesn’t really follow up anywhere else. He later answers some questions and goes “this is almost making me rethink my read on you,”but once again korts doesn’t follow up on it. Feels like distancing

Spoiler: Why I think eddie isn't the best push

Well first off it seems largely a push on PS, it seems like your only reason for scumreading eddie himself is the shitposts when he first replaced in.

So talking about PS, first and foremost I think you misinterpreted her RVS post. Like the we must have blood part makes it definitely seem more like a joke than an actual “I’m legit voting you because you haven’t voted someone.”

Second, in addition to her initial post, I feel like there was a major tone miscommunicating between both of you that caused the situation to escalate. Like part of your argument is that PS lied about what you said, but that really feels more like PS misinterpreting the tone of your posts more than anything else. Like I could see how someone could see your question as “Defensive.” That’s not what I’d think, but I can see why a person would think that. Like I can see why she’d think about questioning you, much in the same way you questioned her. You guys were literally arguing over different definitions of defensive. Like from what I understand PS is a newer player, so I’m not that surprised that she’d have a different tone from other people on this site. And instead of thinking about tone differences between players you scumread her for it.

I think this got kinda rambly but bottom line is I think your read on persephone came from more of a misunderstanding of tone rather than anything actually scummy.

As for why I think Tchill’s vote is horrible, it’s because the dude switched his vote simply because eddie said he’d get back to the thread later. Seriously tchill?

[Dark Horse]

Tchill wagon is wack. If he was scum I see no reason for him to not use the excuse that vecna jailed him. Hell it was brought up in the thread right before he posted so I doubt he forgot about it. The only reason I can think of for going with "I deliberately didn't kill" is because that's legitimately what he did, which is more dumb than anything scummy.

[Grendel]

Grendel's reasons for scumreading me is bad. It's an attack to character more than anything. Like if you're gonna attack me for my character, he would have at least sat down to see my past games to confirm that. His reasons for scumreading me is NAI.

How was I attacking your character?

I think its abosultely rediculas how you had the gumption to dismiss all my points as an attack on your character. Yes, I made an assumption that your were lurking to further your win-con, and yes I think you were too apologetic. Its no different then what yourself did regarding the "Calculated AtE" arguments. You were making an assumption of another player's motivation for their actions. The fact that the problems where external to the game didn't stop you from questioning their legitimacy. But when other people question the legitimacy of your posts and what you are doing behind the screens that is an attack on your character?

I don't think so.

VOTE: Monkey

[Grendel]

I think that Moneky himself realizes that it was a crap reason to scum read me because he has barely mentioned me coming into today.

I could get if Monkey is the kind of player that doesn't belief in abstract thought, or taking outside circumstances into account. But his play is contrary to that. Saying things like "This target is town because wagoned scum would get deadline extension" is not what a strict hardliner would say.

Anyways, im also a town PR, with a skill that can be confirmed tonight. Good job ringing up another one with shit all reasoning.

Not gonna claim any more to not make it too easy on scum, you'll know more tomorrow.

In case you do end up lynching me - Kort & massive are scum here together. Lynch them next

By previously mentioned song and dance I mean Venca stating that he is a power role but not imeadatley full claiming. It looks surface level scummy. Buts actually not something scum are going to typically to do when fake claiming.

Mianly because, "Hey guys I'm a power role but I'm not going to full claim until tomorrow " Is an extremely unpopular method of approaching a claim, and therefore something scum would try to avoid. However town would do this if they had alter motives. In this instance Vecna planning the clear himself by jailing Tchill. While I think its not a great plan I do think that Vecna displaying that kind of strategic planning is moderately town like.

Monkey claiming an ambiguous role doesn’t work if it isn’t confirmable. Vwnca made sense to me because his belief that he was confirmable through his night action. Odds are that Monkey saw the above point I had on Vecna’s claim and thought he could pull it off as well. Plus his claim was less than 24 hours to lynch--- which is sketch.

[Grendel]

VOTE: assemblrr

I think that your hustle yesterday to get a lynch through resonates as moderately town. Which is good since you've been had to follow this game. Or should I say getting a read on?

Assembler is a nice rainy day vote, but can I know what do you think of Monkey?

[Ginngie]

With all the skim reading I notice he is being mentioned all but like... I don't care about him?

So that actually means he's likely scum for that reason.

[Grendel]

I really don't like the huge double standard korts had between monkey and vecna's claims.

I don't understand this argument. Are you being deliberately obtuse? Vecna claimed after a bunch of scummy shit, where he exploded all over the thread, threatened Tchill post-claim multiple times, desperately tried to lead the town away from his wagon, and constantly misrepresented any argument against him.

Then

he claimed, which to me looked like another clear diversion attempt after all the others had failed. It was a bogus claim, even if it turned out to be true.

monkey didn't explode like that, and although his claim was early, it was nearing deadline and his counterwagon was gaining steam. Admittedly, at that point I was on limited access and just trying to get a Vecna lynch to happen, so I wasn't reading thoroughly - but I don't remember any blatant scumminess from monkey before the claim.

I have a bunch of things to do in the following days, so the reread isn't coming before the weekend. Maybe I just missed something.

Monkey didn't claim early? The day was almost over, and there was zero set up reading between the lines.

A silly question, but humor me please.

What was the last game you played through to completion here?

With all the skim reading I notice he is being mentioned all but like... I don't care about him?

So that actually means he's likely scum for that reason.

He meaning Monkey?

Can you take a sec to format your posts more? >.>

[Dark Horse]

Grendel by claiming early I'm assuming korts means "Claimed before he was L-1 or so"

[Ginngie]

didnt monkay man claim

[Dark Horse]

He said he was a "town pr"