Mini 1932: Dedede Fusion Collab (FIN)

[drealmerz7]

nah, just looking for ppl with personal experience with him / some insight into his personality

I was a huge dick to him once, really uncalled for but I let my impatience and frustration get to me (during a time when I was under huge amounts of stress and just not dealing with things well), and I think if he were scum it is possible he'd be trying to goad me into flipping out to get me lynched

[Cephrir]

hes also got like 500 alts for all his survivor characters for some reason

[Chiaotzu]

I'll respond to stuff in a couple of hours but I thought I'd link to my recent games, because my huge amount of alts makes it hard to find anything, especially since I never play on my main anymore.

scum games:
Miss List, I played as Neal.
Buttersnap Shitfuckery, I played as Chimchar.

town games:
Newbie 1795, replaced in as Arnold
C9++, played as RoryMK

These are the only recent ones I played that have finished.

drealm, the last thing I try to do as any alignment is to try and have people flip out. I play this game for fun and I will never try to piss someone off if it means I have a better shot at winning the game. It's not worth it for me. I remember our discussion but I'm glad we can interact without it being an issue. It's in the past and I have no intention of bringing it back up or letting it influence my read on you.

[Chiaotzu]

if I missed anything you want me to respond to immediately feel free to ask. I always have like 10 pages to catch up on when I wake up

[Errantparabola]

Votecount 3.3

First day of school today! Currently in the library with an hour between two classes.

Bins

(2): Game Replacement, Realeo

Chiaotzu

(2): VA-11 Hall-A, implosion

implosion

(2): Cephrir, morph the cat

Realeo

(1): Bins

VA-11 Hall-A

(1): drealmerz7

Not Voting

(2): Chiaotzu, GuiltyLion

10 players, 6 majority.

Deadline in (expired on 2017-09-04 00:29:00)

[Cephrir]

vallhalla could you claim more specifically please?

[Chiaotzu]

We protected him, and

There's a conditional on our role that lets us know if we screwed up the night kill.

funny how I missed that. So you basically were told Cephrir was targeted and you saved him? Seems kinda powerful tbh

[Chiaotzu]

Because I felt like it? I've come into thread and almost voted Implosion a couple times. Also, it amused me to sheep Ceph after he sheeped us on Valhalla yesterday.

Ceph has become my strongest townread.

I approach games with find-town-and-POE. This game, I've been struggling to form strong scumreads from the start and it's gotten marginally better.. The one thing I'm sure about at this point is that Ceph and Bins are town.

why is Bins town?

also think you missed this.

[morph the cat]

Because I felt like it? I've come into thread and almost voted Implosion a couple times. Also, it amused me to sheep Ceph after he sheeped us on Valhalla yesterday.

Ceph has become my strongest townread.

I approach games with find-town-and-POE. This game, I've been struggling to form strong scumreads from the start and it's gotten marginally better.. The one thing I'm sure about at this point is that Ceph and Bins are town.

why is Bins town?

also think you missed this.

No we didn't?

Bins was town because we thought ceph was cop with an innocent on bins when this post was made.

[morph the cat]

We protected him, and

There's a conditional on our role that lets us know if we screwed up the night kill.

funny how I missed that. So you basically were told Cephrir was targeted and you saved him? Seems kinda powerful tbh

It is! We like it.

[Chiaotzu]

That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. You thought the wagon was great and supported it, but you thought it was scum driven too? What was town about their claim?

uh


I don't really know how to answer it. Don't you agree it's a little easier to judge wagon composition once you have a flip?

it is. That's why I think it's weird for you to look for scum on a wagon you supported yourself. Unless you know for a fact Valhalla is town, that doesn't make sense to me.
Can you at least answer what was town about their claim?

[Chiaotzu]

Because I felt like it? I've come into thread and almost voted Implosion a couple times. Also, it amused me to sheep Ceph after he sheeped us on Valhalla yesterday.

Ceph has become my strongest townread.

I approach games with find-town-and-POE. This game, I've been struggling to form strong scumreads from the start and it's gotten marginally better.. The one thing I'm sure about at this point is that Ceph and Bins are town.

why is Bins town?

also think you missed this.

No we didn't?

Bins was town because we thought ceph was cop with an innocent on bins when this post was made.

I see. What gave you that idea?
am I going to find out you were wrong to assume this? Still catching up

[Chiaotzu]

Radja was being dismissive in that post and simply attack Bin credibility which smells unhonest manipulation.

I mean, even if that the same thing happened to me/Bins, I spend sometime to adress her concern.

Radja sounds like a politician who knew he cant win an argument so he just question the credibility of the asker.

And we all know politicians is evil.

You're going to have to explain this to me like I'm 5 years old. I did what now?

Frankly, I cant be more clear.

I wish you'd at least try to explain it better so I can maybe understand what you're getting at.

[Chiaotzu]

It's also really worrying me that literally all the dead townies were scumreading implosion.

"really" worrying? I mean scum have only directly killed 1 of the 3 dead townies so far. Do you think scum pushed Nos or Wisdom in part because they were scumreading implosion? If so, then who specifically do you think may have been doing that and why?

I'm not saying implosion(or other scum) pushed any lynches. But when 3 confirmed townies are scumreading the same person, it is worth reconsidering that slot.

So since you basically answered my question here, to elaborate.

What both GL and I were referring to is that what was originally said here is ambiguous and sort of sketchily implying that a bunch of townies were killed because they scumread me, which this is the less scummy possible response to. But I still don't like that line from post 3021. It's somewhat backhanded, throwing suspicion without really committing to it. Especially since there are some votes on me, though I don't remember relative ordering of that chi post and those votes, but if it came after those votes then it really reads as just scum waffling over whether they want to join a wagon on me, specifically because I haven't been in his scumpile all game (since he's made multiple explicit readslists) so he feels the need to look like he's reconsidering so that the jump looks natural.

That paragraph might be gibberish so if it is i can rephrase it

I fail to see what's bad about me reconsidering my townread on you. Isn't it natural to question a townread after 3 confirmed dead townies who died scumread that same townread? Or can I not value the opinions of others? I explained what I meant and there's no reason for you to continue misrepping me. On top of that:

Bins also questioned her townread on you here:

tbh the only reason I dropped implosion is because everyone else who flipped town has been scumreading him and now the two conf are scumreading him so I must just be missing something

But that doesn't seem to bother you at all. Why is that?

[Cephrir]

imo that whole encryptor mod meta thing puts the kibosh on speculation about alignment based on presence of daytalk

[Cephrir]

(yes i do just really want to believe in something and will wantonly confbias to achieve this)

[Chiaotzu]

It's somewhat backhanded, throwing suspicion without really committing to it.

Isn't this Bins as well?

In a sense yes. But Bins's stances look like they've actually been evolving in response to new information, rather than just changing with what's convenient. For instance her vote right now is more or less a vanity vote on you. That's not especially beneficial for scum, although it could conceivably be scum waiting to put down a higher-impact vote but I have other reasons to townread bins (I remember having strong reasons d1 + her tone has generally seemed natural since then) and I haven't had strong towntells from chiao (iirc there was something at one point but it was fairly weak). Chiao's suspicion towards me is a combination of opportunistic and noncommittal. Just checked and his original post was before the votes on me, so it's not as strong as I thought it might be. It still looks like testing the waters though, especially since his previous reads list had me in his upper half with two of townies who are now dead already dead at that point. But more than that is just the phrasing which just looks like scum trying to see if they can get away with pursuing a wagon on me.

I guess you did comment on it.

The way you're trying to discredit me for questioning my read on you is completely bs dude.
How did I change to what's convenient? I haven't even voted for you (or anyone else, for that matter) yet.
Better yet, I have no intention of voting you at all. I want Realeo/dreal/Bins in that order.
If you're going to keep pulling shit like this, things might change though.

Here's my current reads, as you can see, I moved you down to null, not scum.

[GuiltyLion]

Bins can you elaborate on what you didn't like about Realeo's D2 play prior to the hammer

and to answer GL i meant sort of trolling and with the whole erection thing i think everyone was sort of like wtf on realeo..

so much so we could put the hammer past him

i dont like it

I mean, Ceph did not declare L-1. He must be scum for being ignorant, right?

yeah but unlike you ceph has sort have been not caring all game and also he was voting wisdom previously

you've just been trolling

see my problem with this is when you look past the random erection/trolling nonsense in Realeo's ISO, he is actually asking some insightful/probing questions and attempting (or at least, emulating an attempt) to game-solve. But I feel like you're glossing over or purposefully ignoring that to push on the NAI/bizarre stuff in his ISO, which he rightly pointed out is just a small part of everything he's posted this game. It doesn't feel like you're approaching sorting him on an intellectually honest level here.

[Chiaotzu]

On the gripping hand, is it a town player's first reaction to dig at a claim? He's the only player who overtly did that. I wondered if it was an ESL thing.

It doesn't really generalize, and probably depends on the player. I tend to tiptoe around PR tells and crumbs as all alignments. Claims are a little different.

are you saying I digged at your claim?

you said Cephrir was saved from a nightkill and I asked about it because I hadn't seen anything that indicated that. I didn't "dig for claims" at all.

[morph the cat]

Because I felt like it? I've come into thread and almost voted Implosion a couple times. Also, it amused me to sheep Ceph after he sheeped us on Valhalla yesterday.

Ceph has become my strongest townread.

I approach games with find-town-and-POE. This game, I've been struggling to form strong scumreads from the start and it's gotten marginally better.. The one thing I'm sure about at this point is that Ceph and Bins are town.

why is Bins town?

also think you missed this.

No we didn't?

Bins was town because we thought ceph was cop with an innocent on bins when this post was made.

I see. What gave you that idea?
am I going to find out you were wrong to assume this? Still catching up

You're already past where we found out we were wrong. In fact, you quoted it. I feel like you're not really reading all that closely, unless posts directly involve you.

Posts 2781 through 2784 is where we thought Ceph was (re)-crumbing an inno on bins.

I went back through their iso to see if this made sense. Tammy initially was townreading bins, then expressed concern, and then in her first and final post of day 2 put bins back at town saying it was a strong ceph-read.

If you look at our trajectory from the posts I linked, you'll see that we immediately townbinned bins after that and kept her there until Ceph made his post saying if bins is scum, we'd be a strong potential partner.

That's when we realized he hadn't been crumbing an inno.

[morph the cat]

On the gripping hand, is it a town player's first reaction to dig at a claim? He's the only player who overtly did that. I wondered if it was an ESL thing.

It doesn't really generalize, and probably depends on the player. I tend to tiptoe around PR tells and crumbs as all alignments. Claims are a little different.

are you saying I digged at your claim?

you said Cephrir was saved from a nightkill and I asked about it because I hadn't seen anything that indicated that. I didn't "dig for claims" at all.

That's because our saying he was saved from the N2 kill was a claim. I can maybe buy that you thought we were repeating something that had been stated before.

[morph the cat]

(yes i do just really want to believe in something and will wantonly confbias to achieve this)

Elaborate?

[GuiltyLion]

it is. That's why I think it's weird for you to look for scum on a wagon you supported yourself. Unless you know for a fact Valhalla is town, that doesn't make sense to me.
Can you at least answer what was town about their claim?

I like this post/question a lot. The mentality of "it's weird that Bins is scumhunting on the Wisdom wagon over the VaHa wagon while townreading VaHa" is one that I don't think scum!Chiao would come to easily.

Also we don't have to call it a "townblock" but I like everyone in Realeo's townblock

New and improved GL reads:

town: {Ceph, morph, Realeo}
probtown: {dreal, Chiao}
meh: {VaHa, implosion}
scummy: {Bins, Game Replacement}

Things I'd like to hear
-The VaHa case on Chiao
-A GR case on Bins

VOTE: Bins
I could join the implosion wagon too at the moment but I feel like he's townier than Bins and this vote is a spicier one for the gamestate

[GuiltyLion]

But Bins's stances look like they've actually been evolving in response to new information, rather than just changing with what's convenient. For instance her vote right now is more or less a vanity vote on you. That's not especially beneficial for scum, although it could conceivably be scum waiting to put down a higher-impact vote but I have other reasons to townread bins (I remember having strong reasons d1 + her tone has generally seemed natural since then) and I haven't had strong towntells from chiao (iirc there was something at one point but it was fairly weak)

this case for town!Bins is not especially good. Can you reinforce it with a better argument?

[morph the cat]

I mostly like those reads, but I'm not sure how to order the bottom four.