Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Korts]

You know what guys, I'm not gonna reread the entire thing again, because this is a chore that I am just not enjoying. I have so many chores already, I just want this game to be a game to me. I'm gonna lay out my thoughts off the top of my head, see if that does anything for me.

First off, I want to apologize for my activity so far on Day 2. The Vecna flip threw me off completely, and I was desperately looking for something to grab onto. I latched onto Tchill for an anti-town gesture without any consideration of the scum motivation, which got rightly called out, and threw me off again. Robb antagonizing me was a good trigger to get me back into the game, but it wasn't scumhunting, it was butting heads, and that leads nowhere either.

So here's where I am.

To answer your question first, monkey, I think Ginggie is fucking around, posting a lot but investing little effort, and I really don't think his D3 IC claim makes any sort of sense (although who am I to know what kind of roles can be found floating around these days). At the very least, the claim is verifiable simply by waiting until tomorrow; one thought I had was that he is a Survivor-type deal, or like a Traitor that joins the mafia after D3 maybe? We'll see.

I really dislike the way Robb has been playing, but I think that's just his personality poisoning his game. He is tunneling, OMGUSing, extremely defensive and bitterly argumentative, and I consider none of that a scumtell at this point. Robb, I think you need to seek therapy instead of channeling your frustration into mafia, because you're ruining the game for everyone else.

Based just on Robb's role in Eddie's play, I also can't think of Eddie in terms of alignment, only as the frustrated recipient of Robb's energies. That this turned into genuine suspicion on Eddie's part, I can personally understand. I'm really curious to see how Game Replacement will hold up in that slot.

At this point I'm inclined to believe Tchill's claims, but he absolutely has to confirm himself next night. Grendel has been a blind spot for me so far, and if I wasn't so sick of rereads right now, I'd promise one - does anyone have anything on him?

monkey I go back and forth on. I honestly think that his early game play was suspicious, but he's been on good behavior since our butting of heads. Again, I'm not going to go back looking for anything anymore, but I have my eyes on him.

I still think Dark Horse is making the most sense out of anyone; nancy's trying to sort but is obviously disengaged, which I can understand with the game having been how it has; massive is is proactive; and I liked though I was uncomfortable with some of what Sunlit Diamond had to say, I have to say I liked Gamma's catch-up. (As an aside, it just occurred to me that Emerald replaced Diamond. Ha!)

So there you have it. At this point, the only vote I'm comfortable with:

VOTE: Assembler

I know he just replaced out, but come on.

[Robbnva]

Robb, I think you need to seek therapy instead of channeling your frustration into mafia, because you're ruining the game for everyone else.

having had mental issues in the past this is completely uncalled for. Even if I didn't it is still out of bounds to suggest somebody needs therapy.

go fuck yourself

mod please replace korts or me. I can no longer play with him.

I am also reporting you. It doesn't matter if you didn't know about my past, this is a personal non game related attack at me.

[Tchill13]

Well... I enjoy playing with you Robbnva.

[Robbnva]

if I am not replaced

I will be v/la for the weekend to calm down.

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus replaces Assemblerotws.

Still deciding what I want to do here.

[Game Replacement]

Titus replaces Assemblerotws.

Still deciding what I want to do here.

Give me 2 day vigs.
I'll solve the problems for you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Seeking replacement for Robbnva.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oof.

[Ginngie]

why is Game Replacement at -12 posts

[RadiantCowbells]

That's his post offset, not remaining posts to go.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Korts
Goodbye. I looked over your post and your confession doesn't actually improve my read on you, plus that attack on Robb was just gross.
Although I do like the emerald replacing diamond note as a "haha cool thing" moment.
I think a lot of that post is pocketing btw, look at how many townreads he has.

[Dark Horse]

Haven't read previous pages but korts I'm saying that monkey (who you think has been on good behavior), massive (who you say is proactive) and you are scum, and I've never advocated for an assembler lynch outside of being super close to the deadline. How am I making the most sense from your pov? Your reads seem very different

[Korts]

I did not mean to attack Robb. It was insensitive of me to suggest therapy, but I stand by my position that his state of mind was not healthy or helpful in this game.

Dark Horse: I mean that I find your positions and interactions reasonable, not that I necessarily agree with everything. I don't have any solid argument to disprove your case on me, just the knowledge of my alignment, and since as far as I can tell, most of your case on monkey and massive depends on their connection to me, I don't see that either. Nevertheless, I understand where every post you make comes from.

[Korts]

VOTE: Korts

You have been voting me since the moment you were caught up. Since then, this is the second time you made it look like you were adding your vote to my wagon. Are you trying to create the illusion of momentum?

I think a lot of that post is pocketing btw, look at how many townreads he has.

I have not made any townread declarations in that post.

[nancy]

Will try to make some proper time for this game soon.

@Gamma still waiting on pretty much any meaningful response from you on your scumreads / reads in general; re 1023 townreading Tchill for some of the reads that he's made isn't something that I can make sense of without elaboration - would definitely like you to talk about what you mean there / which reads specifically you think he's had that he wouldn't have had as scum here; think that if you genuinely want to guide people to your reads then the way to do is going to be to talk about why / your reasoning - expecting people to just sheep your read because it's something you're saying they should believe in isn't going to get you very far at all in the best of circumstances.

Eddie read in particular is something that I'm struggling to see from you right now on top of what I've already brought up with you; don't understand at all how you go from having Eddie as a townread and telling Robb that his scumread there is wrong / Eddie's effort was town in 953 (really not understanding what "don't have the details for that yet" means there, please explain that) to saying that you wouldn't be upset if Eddie was vigged and that you can't recall anything from him that's pro-town in 1064, as well as what feels like a ton of dissonance in the sequence around 972/979 overall - not really finding your response to monkey in 1097 on that point particuarly sensible when the question there is about the stance of being open to lynch Eddie despite having stated pretty strongly (?) that you felt the slot was town, not your interaction with Robbnva - feels a little like a dodge from you there and your progression on the slot overall has been pretty troubling + haven't even heard what your reasoning for the townread was in the first place or what changed that; really need you to start being clear on your process there at this point please.

[Grendel]

@Gamma

Grendel is Kaboose and I was happy voting Kaboose yesterday. Maybe a little dig into Grendel is in order.

I'm gonna stop you there. I know Grendel and I'm fairly certain he's town. Plus if I'm remembering right your reason for scumreading Kaboose may have been poor.

Since when have you town read me enough to hard defend me like this?

You hold some degree of suspicion towards me even when you town read me when you are town. Like, you think I'm town vs this game where you talk like you know I'm town.

Its gets even weirder since I'm explicitly not among your strong town reads.

Speaking of which, you never got around to better verbalizing your monkey town read did you?

-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

@These two

So what if Rob is actually right on Eddie?

It really just sounds like a great way to discredit a person, I mean I haven't been reading but skimmin but for real, saying "dont listen he's just toxic" sounds like a great way to not address actual concerns.

Grendel is Kaboose and I was happy voting Kaboose yesterday. Maybe a little dig into Grendel is in order.

tbh I was expecting to come back to several pages of Rob rehashing the same points on eddie to the same audience. Ultimately leading to nothing getting done. Which was why I was discouraging any more Rob poking at that point. Like focusing in on one player (voice, vote, everything), while controlling discussion can be very anti-town. It turned out that he did make/address new points regarding several players so I was wroung there.
-/-/-/-/-/-

@Monkey

#993
"Because operating under the premise that town wouldn't lie is utterly obtuse."
Grendel, why do you assume that it's Robb's reason for tunnelling Eddie?

Speaking generally Rob catches a player in a lie early in the game and pushes that their scum until dead, or being mechanically proven otherwise. Which means that it all circles back to that initial interaction between Rob and the other player. No matter what Rob says down down the road I know that certain reads Rob gets early D1 are basically "set", and he'll observe the game from that perspective regardless what others say or do.

Spoiler:

it is ironic that Robb first said he would not death tunnel on PS, and then totally did just that.

Yes my plan wasn't to death tunnel but when a player blatantly lies about me I can't help but want them dead.

The bragging about RC wasn't meant to be bragging, it's more of the point that people want to excuse people's early posts in rvs because it's rvs and it is possible to trip somebody up and catch them.

I can't remember who said it here but somebody described ps in a way that i completely agrees with. She wanted to look like she was participating in rvs by trying to come up with a reason. It looked awkward and unnatural to me. Then to balk at my question and basically say "dude it's rvs" she completely negates everything. It's not a reaction I really see coming from town. I could see a n00b scum reacting like that though.

Aside from that. Now she's just in full omgus mode. Voting me for voting her. I don't see her really attempting to scum hunt or sort other people. It's clear my suspicion of her is genuine so she can't (and nobody can) really think I'm scum here. She's done legitimately scummy things and needs rope imo.

Town!Rob could very well have caught scum with their pants down at the start of the game, but I'm not convinced that is the case here.

[Grendel]

@Gamma

Does Monkey remind you of my play in newbi 1734? Maybe even a tad?

@Massive

Are you town reading Gamma/Sunlit?

@Korts

Whats you read on Monkey Currently?

You said that Massive is being too proactive to lynch today, why does pro-active mean town?

Are you scum reading Assemble, or is this PL?

[Grendel]

I'll do a town case on Eddie/Persphoney/Replacement when I get back later.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll cover everything on this page later, got other things on my mind rn

[Grendel]

Reasons that I think Percy/Eddie/Vedith is town

Spoiler:

-The first player to receive heavy pressure, (and wagoned to L-2/1), is statistically more likely to be town. In the early game where there is little to go on any points or votes are acceptable to go on. Acceptable to the point that scum can vote whoever with out fear of compromising town cred. Thanks to this scum are less likely to vote another buddy since there is no real town cred to be gleaned there. In instances where scum will RVS each other they are quick to move to another wagon since their is low incentive to distance so soon into the game. Beyond the lowered likelihood of scum distancing their is also a reduced restanice to town getting wagoned in RVS. Scum realize they can't be held accountable, and town are completely blind/dumb/helpless with nothing to go on.

This is only the case for the first player the gets seriously wagon, and its accuracy is rendered null if the first real wagon of the game happens outside of RVS. I tend to think of it as, "X player is now less likely to flip scum then a random lynch with no player control"

-I also think that Eddies flippant interactions that occuasrred when he subbed in, and were maintained quite a while, are more likely to come from town then not. I don't know for certain the strength of his scum game but that sort of play is hard to fake.

-I recall that he was present to help prevent a no lynch a the EoD1. Which was town regardless what Assemble would have flipped there.

-Noise with Rob was totally justifiable, and more interesting is that Eddie could have chosen to keep digging in, or could have defensively kept back entirely. From what I saw Eddie waffled quite a bit over D2 on Rob when I think scum would have chosen and stuck to one road.

Rob made decent a point about how Eddie said he wouldn't lynch Vacna, then totally switched a couple posts later. But that's more likely general bad play then scummy bad. Since scum wouldn't want to contradict themselves its more likely that Eddie!scum had an oversight. Like I don't think town realize how often other town get their reads mixed up, forget a point on somebody, don't realize outside implications of what they just said.

I'm not as 100% on Town Eddie/Precy as I was early in the game, but no, I'm not down for Vedith scum. There are much better lynches out there.

[RadiantCowbells]

Giving everyone -extra time- cuz weekend

[RadiantCowbells]

Also still seeking robbnva replacement.

[Ginngie]

I'm voting the highest wagon

[Ginngie]

OH MY GOD

[Ginngie]

I CAN LYNCH TITUS


HEY GIRL, LOVE YOU, YOU'RE SCUM THO <3


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