Newbie 1815: Prisons [Endgame]

[aphix]

Did/do you seriously not know who got replaced?

[NotTheRealPaul]

i didnt. i just looked back tho and checked.

idk if uve realized this but im really bad at remembering who replaced who and what happened night actions on each. night, who got lynched what day, etc. i always have to go back and check or ask who.

anyway this is kinda awk because tatters/midget slot is prob my top lynch atm but because replace they cant really defend tatters so i giess i'll just wait for them to catchup and then see.

hopefully theyre not like me and theyre caught up before we get to lylo.

[Randomnamechange]

aight 5 pages in osuka and paul are town as they are working hard to shift the game forwards.
icibalus has been kinda meh. the ToS meta post does explain the previous discrepancies butwas kinda unnecessarily passive agrressive which i sus.
madtatters is null atm.
not gonna bother posting about flipped players.

[Randomnamechange]

wait i replaced tatters lul

[Randomnamechange]

oh god tatters was so scummy why were they not lynched yet

[skitter30]

Why was tatters scummy?

[Randomnamechange]

rly hypocritical and pushing people without addressing them.

[skitter30]

I haven't been able to sort your slot properly because she didn't really interact with people. Like, she'd post occasionally and then disappear and never really respond to questions. I don't know if that's per se scummy, or more indicative of the fact that she was new. I mean, she also flaked, so yeah.

Tbh, I'm not sure how to take the fact that you think your predecessor is scummy.

[BlackVoid]

I'll get to this game tonight. Been busy but I'm free tomorrow and day after.

[NotTheRealPaul]

oh god tatters was so scummy why were they not lynched yet

isnt their a tell about this?

like calling predeccessor scummy is scummy?

i think i remember someone saying that in a apast game but idk if that was it or how reliable it was

[osuka]

Shameless prodge because I have no internet 90% of the time

I'll try to post tomorrow

[skitter30]

Lol ik skitters. Its all WIFOM at this point. In all honesty i hadnt really considered nolynching (bcuz im town but ik that wont satisfy you).

Like the reason i never considered it bcuz its absolute shit situation for town. Like if im scum, I woulda considered I think, but town!me doesnt cuz its absolutely down the shitter play as town.

aokay enough of this WIFOM. My final statement is that I never considered a nolynch cuz its simply horrid play and hurts town (aka me). Beleive it or not it doesnt matter.

For the record, I still don't believe this.

I'm lynching within {Paul/RM} today, outside shot of osuka.

I don't like RM so far, but I want to see the rest of his catchup. Still want Paul the most.

[Randomnamechange]

oh god tatters was so scummy why were they not lynched yet

isnt their a tell about this?

like calling predeccessor scummy is scummy?

i think i remember someone saying that in a apast game but idk if that was it or how reliable it was

Its basically just WIFOM.

[NotTheRealPaul]

@RM i remember someone descirbing a tell about it. It would only be WIFOM if u aknowledged what u were doing as u did it.

I mean im not gonna use it as a major point to consider. If im not lazy I might search and find who said it and where.

[skitter30]

Yay, stalled game.

I'm going to try to get some discussion started:

@RM: Have you read the game yet? Who do you want to lynch and why?

@BV: Have you reread yet? What do you think about Paul atm? How about osuka?

@Osuka: What are you thinking about Paul now? Who do you think is a viable partner for DP?

@Aphix: Who are you scumreading? What do you think about osuka and RM/tatters?

@Paul: Who is in your lynch pool today and why? Who do you think makes the most sense as a partner for DP?

[NotTheRealPaul]

@skitters: Atm without rereading its RM. Tatters slot has been really scummy/wierd. Not sure if newbtown or not but definetly dont like the slot. I havent really looked for interactions yet. I'll try this weekend. You and BV are the two people im not considering at all.

[aphix]

Honestly I'm waiting on RM and BV right now. The slots were never beneficial slots for town. BV so far seems alright, but I don't necessarily think he's brought much yet into the game.

RM replaced into a slot I've been concerned could be a scum lurking slot. It's a slot I have been waiting to see something from for awhile and hasn't happened yet.

Paul has seemed a little less scummy today, but there are still parts of his posts that don't seem right.

Osuka .... Well I'm mad at him currently for ruining my fun. I think it would be really easy for scum to hid among the players that we've had in the game so far. I have a town lean here, but have no faith in it.

Also, I thought that tell was one of tarhalindur's but it's not int he wiki for his tells so maybe I'm wrong.

I do think that tatters/RM has moved up the list some, I was leaning newbtown on him but don't like RMs replace in so far. I always get worried about someone that wants to make a post about his feelings five pages into a 34 page game .... Specially when he's town reading someone for "pushing the game forward" by page five, like it's a hard thing to pretend .... Not to mention not bothering to use the correct slots names which indicates a lack of interest in actually following the game properly.

Right now, probably need to at least do a ISO read though but I don't actually think I'm going to, not invested, so I wait to see if the replacements actually want to play the game.

5v1, right now, hard pressed with no new information, I'd probably lynched tatters/RM slot. If game goes to night, see who gets shot, no lynch and aim for the 2v1. One of the NKs is going to be on skitters, the other one might actually give us some sort of information, to solve the game, but we have ten days left on this day phase .... Hopefully someones going to play, as I keep forgetting about this game as nothing is happening, and I'm not a massive analyze the game and solve it sort of player(Probably why I'm really bad at it.)

[osuka]

skimming isos again just so i don't post shit

[osuka]

i'm still on some shit internet so please keep that in mind, too, in case i suddenly stop replying or take a while to post mid-spam

[osuka]

so in light of the dp red flip, paul gets meanie points because they never really interacted - but i can't blame paul too much for it because dp was never really here and I'm not sure even i interacted with him either. I can see them as partners but this is mostly poe

however, by poe bv also gets the same meanie points. BV was, however, obvtowning so i don't think there's any reason to lynch this slot today

same goes for rm. I'd be ok with this lynch but i wouldn't tunnel this slot either

aphix doesn't feel like he'd be in a team with dp BUT his iso is the one that i haven't looked at yet, so that could change - though I kinda doubt it.


the thing is that dp didn't really post a lot so even though it was a red flip, it's kind of a bad flip to do associations with. From an information standpoint, it's pretty shit actually

[skitter30]

@Aphix: Is BV in your lynchpool today? I actually think he's like blatantly town and is my biggest townread atm, although I would like to hear more from him.

Would you be willing to lynch Paul?

I'm kinda with you on Osuka. I have a townlean, but I keep getting paranoid about it. It mostly comes from the way he reacted to MWAP (which I wasn't even there for); most of what he said has been kinda NAIf for me tbh.

RM has gone down a lot for me. I think Tatters is either the second or third most likely DP partner based on interactions, and I haven't been overly impressed by RM thus far.

And yeah, I'm dying tonight most likely, so we won't get that much info that way. If we mislynch today, tomorrow is MYLO; I think no-lynching may actually be a viable option at that point, and would probably recommend that.

@Osuka: I actually think DP interacted with/about Paul the most (I have a post about this that I'm in middle of, and I'll post it eventually, probably not till the weekend). They have quite a few sketchy interactions. From what I'm up to so far, you and tatters do as well, and I haven't figured out which of you looks worse through that lens yet. I don't think Paul/DP is PoE at all; there's several things that indicate they may be partners. (Again, in middle of this, will post when I have a chance)

I'm not lynching BV today. My lynchpool is Paul/RM, with an outside chance of you.

I *really* don't think Aphix makes sense as a partner. If you want me to buy this, you need to explain why DP was pushing the slot for most of day 1 and was trying to bus Aphix day 2.

And yeah, there isn't *that* much in his ISO, but I think it's still worth looking at, and I'll post what I have within the next day or two.

[skitter30]

VOTE: RandomMidget

[BlackVoid]

Been really busy irl sorting some stuff out that I haven't been able to get involved in this game the past few days but that's mostly out of the way now.

Anyways, I really have no idea which of Paul/Osuka/random/aphix are scum and while aphix has been my strongest townread, I haven't really managed to rule anyone out. I'll go over my impressions of the game with flips in mind and if people could engage with my points or give different opinions, that'll help me move towards figuring out the game. I'm just going to lay out all my thoughts so this might be a bit meandering. I have a post nearly compiled with thoughts on D1 which I'll post in a couple of hours. Need to grab dinner right now.

[NotTheRealPaul]

I'll try to reread tommorrow evening. Im taking the ACT in the morning and may have plans for afternoon and IDK when I'll get time. I have homework to do as well, enough that I may not get a chance all weekend. I shall try thoigh.

Im considering replacing out but id like to see this game through. I didnt expect all this homework though, which is why I originally planned to reread this weekend.

[BlackVoid]

All of these are my thoughts on day one. I'll go over the rest of the game in a separate post which I'm writing now and should be done later tonight. Feel free to comment on what I've posted so far though.

Aphix (Icibalus):

113 - This is a bad post from Icibalus. It feels like he's trying to excuse himself pre-emptively by saying he's a bad player.
147 - This post is even worse. Saying Madtatters is "clearly scum" for quoting a post is the worst attack I've seen so far in the game. I think anyone reasonable would just assume that Madtatters meant to say something and clicked submit before doing so. I don't see what motivation scum have to do what Icibalus thinks Madtatters did. I also dislike the "I require a good explanation before I unvote" line because it felt like he was already planning to unvote and just needed Madtatters to answer his questions before he does so.
150 - I don't like this post either. Icibalus just clarifies the difference between Madtatter's argument and Osuka's and keeps his vote on Madtatters. This doesn't square with his initial reason of Madtatters quoting a post that says that they are scum. It feels like he found an easy target to leave his vote on.
235 - This is a good question to Pepper. Want to see if there was any follow-up here. I also generally liked Aphix's catch up post (234) but I talked about that earlier.
239 - While I didn't feel that JaeReed and Tatters were aligned when reading the game the first time, I thought this rationale was pretty well-thought out on Aphix's part. That he held onto this reasoning and only gave it after Paul asked also felt town to me (like there was more thought behind the scenes than what he was letting on).
291 - While I don't think it's scummy to want to policy-lynch someone, I don't get why you are policy-lynching if you hate policy-lynching. Although I get why he'd think the lynch is inevitable if the only person arguing against it (JaeReed) is his biggest scumread so I can hardly expect him to "work with" JaeReed to get an alternative lynch. I think that's something Paul hasn't considered in his opening attack D2 which I'll get to in a bit.

NotTheRealPaul:

164, 168 - I like these posts for townreading Tatters at the exact same time I was coming around to leaning town on her.
186, 189 - I don't disagree with anything said here. Icibalus' post

was

bad and the MWAP vote wasn't unreasonable. I think the comment about "mindmelding" is probably something that town says more often than scum. In this case, Paul townread Tatters before JaeReed did and then Paul agreed with JaeReed's MWAP push. So, I overall like these posts. I also liked the comment on Osuka's reversal on Tatters and had the same feeling.
209 - You townlean Pepper for his RVS vote on you?
227 - Your last mention of Pepper was a townlean on him. How come you are now okay with lynching him? That said, I think the willingness to lynch Pepper might point away from a Pepper/Paul scumteam?
237 - This would be a weird post to make to a partner I think.
244 - I think Paul would probably townread Aphix here regardless of alignment. Not sure what to make of him saying Pepper shouldn't be dissuaded of his scumread on Paul (it sort of piggybacks on Aphix's reasoning).
251 - Do you normally push lynches like this as town? You do seem really aggressive here in a way you didn't in the previous game we played together.
262 - You didn't answer my question. Why were you so confident it was a scumclaim when in our previous game, you didn't buy that I was scum even after I said I was scum?
263 - This could actually be Paul genuinely thinking that Aphix was MWAP's partner as if MWAP gave up, then his partner would be pissed off.
280, 281 - I like these two posts because they seem like he's actively scumhunting for MWAP's partners as well as getting frustrated with MWAP's inactivity. I just don't think it's likely that scum would question MWAP's motivation for joining the game.

Osuka:

155 - I don't like this response to MadTatters. Tatters basically said "I'd genuinely like to understand your reasoning for your vote" and Osuka's response amounted to "i don't have to offer my reasoning behind every vote or action." It could partly just be a theory disagreement but giving reasons and allowing your target to respond can help you get a better read. It's rather premature to have already decided who he wanted to lynch on page seven.
172 - I'm not sure what was scummy about the post of MWAP's that you quoted. Mind elaborating?
174 - What of MadTatters' 159 were you townreading? I don't think her tone comes off that much more different than what it was previously. I actually agree with Paul that the turnaround after both Paul and JaeReed townread MadTatters feel like Osuka realized that this lynch wasn't going through and changed course for MWAP instead.
177 - I like this back off though and subsequent pressure vote (again) in 181.
183 - The "if anything I'm the one who should be wary" pings me. If Osuka genuinely thought JaeReed was buddying him, he'd say so. If not, I expect he'd say that they were both town that were townblocking. What I didn't like about the phrasing here is that it seemed like he wanted Yakko to continue to have the impression that JaeReed could be buddying Osuka but not actually want to investigate the matter himself (Yakko already claimed BP so this isn't a question to help him read Yakko). I'm not sure what to make of the fact that JaeReed actually agreed with what Osuka said here.
191 - "He explained himself well after I asked if it was a threat?" Do you mean his 160? How does that alleviate your suspicion of him? If you were talking about 159, then same question.
225 - I liked the "too nice" characterization of JaeReed since I got some of those vibes myself and wondered if he was scum for it although it seems to have just been an IC thing.
229 - Conflicted on this one but want to make a note of it. How does most of his content strike you? Why no follow up D2 on this?
271 - I think the argument that "MWAP is scum" and "Aphix knows MWAP will flip town" are a bit contradictory. I'm not really sure whether Osuka thinks MWAP will flip town or scum here. On the one hand, he's pushing the lynch through with statements like "if you think it is not (alignment indicative), I have two (bridges to sell you)" while on the other, there's stuff like "he's either gamethrowing town or gamethrowing scum, and in either case i'm fine with getting him lynched" which feels like a policy-esque vote.
283 - The frustration feels townish here. I see what skitter is saying but I don't find it to be as conclusive as she does.

Random (MadTatters):

146 - I thought the "your anger is only proving to me more that you're scum" seemed really naive in a newb-town way and it's one of the posts I really thought was town from Tatters.
151 - A little bit conflicted on this one. I liked the re-iteration of why Osuka was scummy. It sounded like Tatters were clinging to a genuine belief. I didn't like the emphasis on telling Paul that her vote was fake. It sounded like they were trying to placate Paul. I don't understand the reason why Tatters was townreading Paul and Icibalus.
157 - Weird? No idea what this is.
159 - I think this post is more likely to come from town because Tatters is singling out one of the votes on her (Osuka) while townreading two others (Paul and Icibalus) specifically because he didn't have reasoning. That reads like she's scumhunting her wagon. The "go on, lynch me" argument also makes sense if she genuinely thought people are going to look at her scumread Osuka next after her townflip because of the way he pushed her.
214 - I feel like the assumption that everyone caught onto something with MWAP that she, Tatters didn't betrays a town mindset as well as the curiosity in asking people why they want MWAP lynched. It feels like she's trying to learn how to scumhunt as opposed to seeing how she could take advantage of a situation where a townie is under a lot of pressure.
292 - This hammer and reasoning feel like complete bullshit. She was scumreading Osuka before so the turnaround is weird. It's probably the only thing I found scummy in Tatter's D1 but I really hate it.

DoctorPepper's interactions with other slots:

109 - "FOS buddy, vote townie" was a tell I think but I'm not sure I believe that. Agreeing with JaeReed on Tatters seems like he's trying to set Tatters up for a mislynch.
136 - Conflicted on whether this push makes sense for a partner to do.
212 - The counter-offer to Yakko to move to Icibalus doesn't seem like something a partner would do. Disliking the idea of a townblock makes more sense if JaeReed's townreads are actually town so this gives townpoints to Osuka and Paul. I'm not sure what his hesitance to go after Paul says about Paul's alignment.