Mini Normal 1952: Dragon's Dance [OVER - PERFECT SCUM WIN]

[LicketyQuickety]

When I posted my reads list I had 2 scum leans, you and TSQ.

I posted why I found you scummy, but my vote was still on TSQ because I was willing to give you some time since your play style was a bit sketchy.

I said I'd be ok with a wagon on you, then you went APESHIT!! At the mere mention of a WAgon on you.

Dude if this is how you're gonna play then Hell yeah, I'd be good with a wagon on You.

We we are now covering old ground.

Here's what actually happened.

I asked what reasons you had for Scum reading me. You gave your reasons and they were terrible and I said as much. At the same time I did a reaction test to test out if you were actually being serious with your suspicion on me.
Then instead of backing up your logic you completely circumvent the issue by giving an excuse why its not bad to vote for people for shit reasons.
I then explain the reaction test to everyone and explain that your logic doesn't hold up. In my P-Edit, I expressed that I was still unsure on you because of your later responses.
Then you say "where is my vote" like that in any way is some kind of defense about what I said.
Then you follow up with another deflection against my attack.
Then I explain that because your vote is on tsq whom you were talking about voting me with, that this implies that you no longer have any reason to Scum read me considering your reasons for voting me were because I didn't make sense to you which is invalidated because it implies both that you don't know what to do with your vote (a sign of nervousness) and that I am making decent points against you that you cannot contest.
Then you quote two posts. One of which is Acid asking if you can spew your alignment and another that Quotes the conversation you had with tsq about voting me trying to imply that you had reason to vote against me. Neither of these posts are posts that show how my logic is wrong on you.
Then I point out that these do not invalidate my points against you.
Then you acuse me of OMGUSing you, which if you were reading the thread, I said earlier that I am not afraid to OMGUS as Town.
Then you say "nice try" in an attempt to make it look like I am OMGUSing you. But this is invalidated by the P-Edit I made stating what you said previously wasn't enough for a vote.
Then you say I am not understanding something, which doesn't make sense because I had been explaining your actions the entire time.
Then I point out how your "nice try" is actually Scummy.
Then I point out that I actually do understand.
Then I point out that I was Scumhunting and not OMGUSing.
Then you make this post.

Conclusion: Havo never addresses my points head on, but instead deflects at every turn. This is not the sign of someone with sound logic, but someone with something to hide. This is Scum.

This ENTIRE post is garbage. Are you High right now?

This is NOT what happened.

Everyone can read this exchange for themselves.

Are you like going to counter my points or what?

[Mumble]

So let's both agree to let that go, and only talk about this game. One game is not meta, man.

[Tchill13]

so LQ shut down boons possible attempt at a reaction test then held his own and came to the conclusion havo was scum? convenient.

[Tchill13]

So let's both agree to let that go, and only talk about this game. One game is not meta, man.

yeah i agree. just wanted to let everyone know how you won. not sure why you'd be against that but i won't bring it up anymore it's in the thread now. one game isn't meta but the one game you WON might call for a little more attention right?

[Havo]

so LQ shut down boons possible attempt at a reaction test then held his own and came to the conclusion havo was scum? convenient.

Exactly

[Tchill13]

your havo vote is why your scum not the fact your being called out for lurking. then you quickly retract it...

[Mumble]

your havo vote is why your scum not the fact your being called out for lurking. then you quickly retract it...

I'm done. Literally, no one is reading what I write. I am being extremely transparent with my actions and comments (and my "meta scum" read is relevant since it was brought in this game).

You think I'm scum, vote me. This town obviously has no interest in honestly interacting, but would rather push meta and thoughts and games, or bend to manipulation.

Tell me at which spot my vote on myself should be at and it will be there. This is ridiculous.

[Mumble]

@mod: can you order the VC by those with the most votes please.

Sure.

[LicketyQuickety]

luv who on this list would you disagree with (being town):

quick, errant, egg, lalendra, mumble, schadd

except lalendra and add luv and remove quick and yourself

i don't want to lynch any of:
errant, quick, schadd, lalendra, luv, egg

at the moment

i don't really want to lynch mumble but i'd be happy with him

tchill / boon / serg / havo / tsq are the other people in the game

VOTE: tsq

i'm playing the spew your alignment game with everyone itt who posts and asking people who they want to lynch is part of the spew your alignment game

tsq was a lynch i was ~as happy with as anyone else in those bottom 5 names

Why did you remove me in the post before this one when addressing Uzi?

i dedicate this pagetop to the spew your alignment game

if you're here please join

mumble if you want a good example of how to start see last page's bottom

so is

reads in mafia

the spew your alignment game is completely separate from quick's color thing

i mean if you get a good tonal meme self-spew then sure

but otherwise not

wut what

i am saying that calling it ridiculous is dumb when effectively it's high-pressure rti

calling it subjective is dumb because this is mafia

and also added the thing about the color thing bc thought that was what you were referring to with ridiculous

tchill

that's not what shooting fish in a barrel means

actually tchill we already talked about acid a little and came to the correct and accurate conclusions

namely,

hi tchill look at me i'm so town

None of this is sorting anyone.

[acidphoenix]

the tchill ones aren't yes

the mumble ones are the futility of trying to get him to spew himself

also i removed you in the uzi one because uzi had ~recently stated a scumread on you iirc

[LicketyQuickety]

so LQ shut down boons possible attempt at a reaction test then held his own and came to the conclusion havo was scum? convenient.

LOL if you think I planned it that way???

[LicketyQuickety]

What is wrong with my case on Havo? No one has said there is anything wrong with it. All they have said is that I am Scummy for my case on them without actually saying why my case on them is wrong.

[LicketyQuickety]

so LQ shut down boons possible attempt at a reaction test then held his own and came to the conclusion havo was scum? convenient.

Exactly

yeah, except I have NEVER stated a Town read on you all game either, so your point that I am OMGUSing is completely false. Plus if I was going to OMGUS someone, don't you think I would pick like tsq or something?

[Egg]

Ugh, 6 pages again. Catching up...

Tchill, you said mumble falls under the category of scum tending to lurk. What in his posting up to page 10 makes you think his lack of activity was alignment related? I'm also surprised to see TSQ in your null pile. Are you doing anything to try to sort him?

I could prolly vote Boon. tsq makes a decent point on them. Plus they only have one post. The fact that they have one post doesn't invalidate that they could be doing a reaction test. On the contrary it actually bolsters my argument. But you can't read what you can't read.

@tsq and anyone else accusing me of having no progression on Boon.

The fact that he only had one post at that point meant nothing more than that he went on V/LA. It doesn't strengthen your argument. It means nothing.

this is why mumble is suspicious. Only time i played with him he lurked.

One game isn't a good sample size of this. You'd have to have a bunch of examples showing a pattern of more activity as town than as scum.

________________

On the mumble vs taco thing...

If I was gonna vote one of them, it would be taco. Mumble looks like he's actually trying in his interactions with lalendra, and not just in the sense of trying to get town read by her. He's trying to understand her points and counter them effectively and he's trying to sort her with his questioning on why she isn't after taco. Taco just...blatantly isn't playing. He'd be more of a policy vote for me than anything and I'm still with Shea as far as having bigger fish to fry with Lickety.

I don't at all agree with Shea that their argument looked stage, or at least not in a scum/scum way. Sure, maybe Taco saw mumble posting and decided it was an opportune time to make an appearance, but even that feels like a stretch. Yes, it's weird that the two of them dominated the thread for a bit after previously doing nothing, but I don't see it being a calculated "hey let's shit up the thread so we look active" move by buddies.

I really don't like this. usually town would answer any question brought up about or against them or whatever. but to be like, im not gonna answer to your question until you answer mine sounds scummy to me.

I could understand if you were reading it as poor town play, but what benefit does scum have for doing that? To me, it sounds more like town who wants his question answered.

___________________

Right now tho, it looks like Mumble is avoiding the thread.

Avoiding the thread right after he came in and did things? Really?

_________________

I might be warming up to Acid with his spew your alignment game. He looks townier since he started playing it.

_________________

I'm still trying to figure out what to make of Lickety vs Havo. I'll probably just wait until one of them flips to figure that one out because I'm not getting anything more than associative tells off of those interactions and I don't want to mess around with those too much pre-flip.

________________

Sorry for real-life stuff? I get a lot from real-time interaction, but we have a 14 day deadline. Disappearing for 30 minutes at a time and then being called out for it is a bit nonsensical.

Mumble, get used to hearing shitty arguments about activity. Everyone assumes that town has nothing to do but post here and scum is scared of any interaction at all. And a lot of the time it is subconscious. People put way too much stock into activity here.

_______________

@ LQ,

So you have flipped out a reaction test on me, after you called out Boons reaction test.

Seems like someone who really liked to reaction test would let another players reaction test have a chance to give results. No?

Very good point

_________________

Mumble is really reacting, to me, like scum that has been found out and is

trying to limit the damage by not giving any associative tells.

If that's true, then the limited interactions he DID have (like voting havo) give us a decent amount of information. If not, then his death will be in vain because he hasn't helped us do any scum hunting whatsoever, and I'm not going to be very happy.

I really think you're overthinking with the bolded. A lot of players feel that early reads/tells are useless and some even believe that it's impossible to figure anything out without real info (flips, results, etc). Mumble strikes me as this type of player at least on some level. Personally, I think that early in the game when everyone's role PMs are fresh in their mind is a great time to get a read, but not everyone thinks like me and I've seen the other side of things more times than I care to count. Look at Tchill showing this lol:

and day 1 is like shooting fish in a barrel i'll stand by that. literally the least amount of info we'll ever have.

_______________

so LQ shut down boons possible attempt at a reaction test then held his own and came to the conclusion havo was scum? convenient.

your havo vote is why your scum not the fact your being called out for lurking. then you quickly retract it...

If you had to pick one of the wagons right now, which would it be and why? And why not whichever you wouldn't choose?

_______________

I'm done. Literally, no one is reading what I write. I am being extremely transparent with my actions and comments (and my "meta scum" read is relevant since it was brought in this game).

You think I'm scum, vote me. This town obviously has no interest in honestly interacting, but would rather push meta and thoughts and games, or bend to manipulation.

Tell me at which spot my vote on myself should be at and it will be there. This is ridiculous.

It's probably a good idea to step away from the thread for a bit. Please don't vote yourself unless you are scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

No one has said a damn thing that invalidates my case on Havo.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ugh, 6 pages again. Catching up...

Tchill, you said mumble falls under the category of scum tending to lurk. What in his posting up to page 10 makes you think his lack of activity was alignment related? I'm also surprised to see TSQ in your null pile. Are you doing anything to try to sort him?

I could prolly vote Boon. tsq makes a decent point on them. Plus they only have one post. The fact that they have one post doesn't invalidate that they could be doing a reaction test. On the contrary it actually bolsters my argument. But you can't read what you can't read.

@tsq and anyone else accusing me of having no progression on Boon.

The fact that he only had one post at that point meant nothing more than that he went on V/LA. It doesn't strengthen your argument. It means nothing.

But it would mean something if he wasn't V/LA. You are being results oriented and not process oriented.

Right now tho, it looks like Mumble is avoiding the thread.

Avoiding the thread right after he came in and did things? Really?

Well he left just as the thread was getting hot. Again, you can't look at what happened later after I said what I said, you have to consider what the context was at the time. And its not like he really did much, lets be honest here. Plus if you want to be results oriented you would have to consider that I changed my read on Mumble (don't know if I explicitly stated this or not, but I was thinking it).

I might be warming up to Acid with his spew your alignment game. He looks townier since he started playing it.

How? They were not indicating how they were reading people at all because of that. At least that is what it looks like to me.

I'm still trying to figure out what to make of Lickety vs Havo. I'll probably just wait until one of them flips to figure that one out because I'm not getting anything more than associative tells off of those interactions and I don't want to mess around with those too much pre-flip.

Make a damn stance and man up. There is nothing wrong with my case on him.

@ LQ,

So you have flipped out a reaction test on me, after you called out Boons reaction test.

Seems like someone who really liked to reaction test would let another players reaction test have a chance to give results. No?

Very good point

Not really considering I didn't really want to cause a pile on Boon environment at the beginning of the game. That is how quick lunches happen and I try to avoid those because I have seen them happen in the past. I've talked to tsq in sitechat a bit - enough to know what he is like. And it was demonstrated that he's like a dog that doesn't let go of the rope so that's more reason to not want quick pressure on someone early from someone like him. Plus that was done at the beginning of the game when there is like nothing to go off of. Plus all it shows is that I am inconsistent, not that I am Scum.

[Havo]

I asked what reasons you had for Scum reading me. You gave your reasons and they were terrible and I said as much. At the same time I did a reaction test to test out if you were actually being serious with your suspicion on me.

I don't care if you don't like my reasons for scum leaning you

Then instead of backing up your logic you completely circumvent the issue by giving an excuse why its not bad to vote for people for shit reasons.

That's a Lie, here's where you are hard pushing your Agenda to avoid being lynched yourself, You said I had shit reasons for voting you, I said people get lynched on Day 1 for Shit reasons most of the time. Not that I Had Shit reasons

I then explain the reaction test to everyone and explain that your logic doesn't hold up. In my P-Edit, I expressed that I was still unsure on you because of your later responses.
Then you say "where is my vote" like that in any way is some kind of defense about what I said.

I said Where is my Vote, To point out to you that I wasn't voting you, I WASN'T VOTING YOU, I WASN'T VOTING YOU, I WASN'T VOTING YOU. What part of I'm not Voting you do you not get here? At this point my reasons to scum read you were not enough for me to actually vote you. I said I could vote you,
or would be okay with a wagon on you to see what reaction you would have.

Then you follow up with another deflection against my attack.
Then I explain that because your vote is on tsq whom you were talking about voting me with, that this implies that you no longer have any reason to Scum read me considering your reasons for voting me were because I didn't make sense to you which is invalidated because it implies both that you don't know what to do with your vote (a sign of nervousness) and that I am making decent points against you that you cannot contest.

Where my vote was at that time does NOT matter what my opinion or READ of you was, not at all.

Then you quote two posts. One of which is Acid asking if you can spew your alignment and another that Quotes the conversation you had with tsq about voting me trying to imply that you had reason to vote against me. Neither of these posts are posts that show how my logic is wrong on you.

This had NOTHING to do with you, I was answering Acid's Test with that post. It was not directed at you in any way.

Then I point out that these do not invalidate my points against you.
Then you acuse me of OMGUSing you, which if you were reading the thread, I said earlier that I am not afraid to OMGUS as Town.

And how is that town play at all? What is OMGUS voting known for? The fact that you stated your not afraid to do it means nothing,

Then you say "nice try" in an attempt to make it look like I am OMGUSing you. But this is invalidated by the P-Edit I made stating what you said previously wasn't enough for a vote.

What you did was virtually an OMGUS vote.

Then you say I am not understanding something, which doesn't make sense because I had been explaining your actions the entire time.

You are living in your own little scum world here. None of your argument makes sense.

Then I point out how your "nice try" is actually Scummy.
Then I point out that I actually do understand.
Then I point out that I was Scumhunting and not OMGUSing.
Then you make this post.

Conclusion: Havo never addresses my points head on, but instead deflects at every turn. This is not the sign of someone with sound logic, but someone with something to hide. This is Scum.

Bottom line is I had FOS'd you and put you as a scum LEAN, so I was not opposed to seeing a wagon on you or voting you to get more info on you, that's how it works, that's how you get reads, But me simply mentioning this caused a HUGE Over reaction on your part. It's obvious you were worried about being lynched so you tried your best to build a counter wagon against me to save your own ass, basically forcing me to vote you.

[LicketyQuickety]

I asked what reasons you had for Scum reading me. You gave your reasons and they were terrible and I said as much. At the same time I did a reaction test to test out if you were actually being serious with your suspicion on me.

I don't care if you don't like my reasons for scum leaning you

Then instead of backing up your logic you completely circumvent the issue by giving an excuse why its not bad to vote for people for shit reasons.

That's a Lie, here's where you are hard pushing your Agenda to avoid being lynched yourself, You said I had shit reasons for voting you, I said people get lynched on Day 1 for Shit reasons most of the time. Not that I Had Shit reasons

I then explain the reaction test to everyone and explain that your logic doesn't hold up. In my P-Edit, I expressed that I was still unsure on you because of your later responses.
Then you say "where is my vote" like that in any way is some kind of defense about what I said.

I said Where is my Vote, To point out to you that I wasn't voting you, I WASN'T VOTING YOU, I WASN'T VOTING YOU, I WASN'T VOTING YOU. What part of I'm not Voting you do you not get here? At this point my reasons to scum read you were not enough for me to actually vote you. I said I could vote you,
or would be okay with a wagon on you to see what reaction you would have.

Then you follow up with another deflection against my attack.
Then I explain that because your vote is on tsq whom you were talking about voting me with, that this implies that you no longer have any reason to Scum read me considering your reasons for voting me were because I didn't make sense to you which is invalidated because it implies both that you don't know what to do with your vote (a sign of nervousness) and that I am making decent points against you that you cannot contest.

Where my vote was at that time does NOT matter what my opinion or READ of you was, not at all.

Then you quote two posts. One of which is Acid asking if you can spew your alignment and another that Quotes the conversation you had with tsq about voting me trying to imply that you had reason to vote against me. Neither of these posts are posts that show how my logic is wrong on you.

This had NOTHING to do with you, I was answering Acid's Test with that post. It was not directed at you in any way.

Then I point out that these do not invalidate my points against you.
Then you acuse me of OMGUSing you, which if you were reading the thread, I said earlier that I am not afraid to OMGUS as Town.

And how is that town play at all? What is OMGUS voting known for? The fact that you stated your not afraid to do it means nothing,

Then you say "nice try" in an attempt to make it look like I am OMGUSing you. But this is invalidated by the P-Edit I made stating what you said previously wasn't enough for a vote.

What you did was virtually an OMGUS vote.

Then you say I am not understanding something, which doesn't make sense because I had been explaining your actions the entire time.

You are living in your own little scum world here. None of your argument makes sense.

Then I point out how your "nice try" is actually Scummy.
Then I point out that I actually do understand.
Then I point out that I was Scumhunting and not OMGUSing.
Then you make this post.

Conclusion: Havo never addresses my points head on, but instead deflects at every turn. This is not the sign of someone with sound logic, but someone with something to hide. This is Scum.

Bottom line is I had FOS'd you and put you as a scum LEAN, so I was not opposed to seeing a wagon on you or voting you to get more info on you, that's how it works, that's how you get reads, But me simply mentioning this caused a HUGE Over reaction on your part. It's obvious you were worried about being lynched so you tried your best to build a counter wagon against me to save your own ass, basically forcing me to vote you.

I love how you made this intentionally difficult to reply to. That's a neat trick that I have seen before. I will let others be the judge because your arguments are still not very good.

[schadd_]

tonal meme reads one of the most accurate types of reads in mafia tbh

yaaaaaaas.

VOTE: mumble

probtown

I have no substantial reads at this point, so I won't waste my time. The fact the you all are pressing so hard for it is ridiculous.

what do u need us 2 do

havo wanna join in the spew your alignment game

anyone can play! step right up!

t

o

o

o

o

w

n

(gurgle) excuse me

VOTE: havo

another good vote (havo's alignment irrespective)

havo seems a little less than town tho

[Tchill13]

intentionally difficult? lmao if thats not a copout idk what is.

[LicketyQuickety]

intentionally difficult? lmao if thats not a copout idk what is.

Yeah, well, I think you switched on me pretty fast if I am being honest. Like why no vote on me? It looks like you are just throwing shade. Plus its like you have an excuse to not like all my posts rather than actually accounting for what I am saying.

I really can't believe you think Havo looks more Town from our interaction. It does not make sense to me.

[Tchill13]

i have experience with havo and he's playing like id expect him to as town day 1. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because i have seen a few instances of newb townies trying too hard too early and making strong reads out of little to nothing. Pretty sure you joined in like 2015 though and your reaction to someone MENTIONING a LQ wagon is laughable. You contradicted yourslef to some degree with the "reaction testing" and it was during a conveniant time that gave you a "reason" to vote havo other than OMGUS. at this point i'm fine with your or mumble's lynch. I'd rather lynch mumble hence my voting being there.

[LicketyQuickety]

i have experience with havo and he's playing like id expect him to as town day 1. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because i have seen a few instances of newb townies trying too hard too early and making strong reads out of little to nothing. Pretty sure you joined in like 2015 though and your reaction to someone MENTIONING a LQ wagon is laughable. You contradicted yourslef to some degree with the "reaction testing" and it was during a conveniant time that gave you a "reason" to vote havo other than OMGUS. at this point i'm fine with your or mumble's lynch. I'd rather lynch mumble hence my voting being there.

then fucking put your money where your mouth is and vote me.

I find it odd that your reason for Town reading havo is based on Meta. How many games do you have played with them? You might want to look at my meta if you are going to use meta reads.

[Tchill13]

ok i lean town on TSQ. after an ISO i like why he voted LQ. I'm not crazy about ppl that belittle me and I like to agg them on at some point. He's obviously confident in his own play if he's calling ppl idiots so i'm sure he'll have this game figured out by the next day phase.

[LicketyQuickety]

ok i lean town on TSQ. after an ISO i like why he voted LQ. I'm not crazy about ppl that belittle me and I like to agg them on at some point. He's obviously confident in his own play if he's calling ppl idiots so i'm sure he'll have this game figured out by the next day phase.

So you are Town reading someone for being an asshole?