Mini 1955: Perpetual MYLO III - Game Over!

[Lycanfire]

Not_Mafia
Wisdom
Carcalilly
Maki Harukawa
Wickedestjr

If I was a dentist which tooth of yours would I pull?

[Lycanfire]

It's three out of a five. Don't be shit at mafia and you win.

[Lycanfire]

Interesting wordchoice as well.

[Lycanfire]

what's this referring to?

Maki's defeatist attitude and admission. There's two themes in the scenario and both can be AI.

[Lycanfire]

Brian Skies
acidphoenix
DiamondSentinel
Chara
kunkstar7

Why are you all good at mafia?

[Lycanfire]

not used to acidphoenix being such a tryhard

[Lycanfire]

more i read into acidphoenix the more i think he's town.

[Lycanfire]

Acid, if I'm town and you're town there's five other townies you can try to convince with that pitch. If you want to let the cat out of the bag this early, you're losing a large part of the power behind your pressure. What do you see happening next?

You are right that group dynamics are important here. That's my reasoning behind my personal RQS.

[Lycanfire]

All of Lycan's questions need to be answered immediately?

No. I found it interesting that group 2 was more talkative.

That reminds me. I need to answer this one. @Lycan- if you were a dentist, you would probably pull one of my

wisdom teeth

because I still have them.

Thanks. There were a few reasons why I asked that specific question. Between Acidphoenix and myself bringing up group dynamics, my lone RQS doesn't have much teeth left.

Group A: Dentist/teeth
Motive: Establish personal imperfections or guilt.
Interesting quirk: Wisdom is in the game. Asking the group with Wisdom in it had the potential to get

him

to think about why. He doesn't seem to care.

It's outcome... Failure. Your answer is spoiled by the discussion Acidphoenix and I had previous to it. Anything said after that goes into the trash heap.

SUCCESS BY OTHER MEANS:

I'm not going to keep preaching

that "it doesn't matter we're gonna lose" I'm saying it's going to be a challenge compared to other set ups.

Maki admitted that they were actively being defeatist in their first three posts. That's the guilt aspect. So is Maki rightfully guilty? Yes. There's an interesting dichotomy here if whether admitting this is townie, but with consideration to her posts previous she only made this comment as a result of the ones it took to get there. Verdict: while it wasn't the plain self realization I was after, Maki really dragged on their own play here. Felt like Reasonably Rational in Steven Universe 2 pre-game.

In all I would put her in the scum pile. Her associatives are snooze-worthy, and she isn't set up to be lategame scum. Given the odds on an already scummy slot, I would lynch this day 1 in absent of anything better, if only due to the odds of the lynch being well placed in this setup.

Group B: Good at mafia
Motive: Offer a loaded question. See who wants to call me on it.
Interesting quirk: I deliberately left out UCV to round out the numbers, to see if he or anyone else would pick up on it. Given the question it was meant to be inflammatory.

It's outcome: ... It got people talking? Diamond quickly called bullshit on it, which was acceptable behavior. I think the willingness to laud about oneself in this scenario rather than question my motives to be scummy. Chara lands into scumpile.

Overall objective: split people up into two groups, two subgroups, and ideally, get someone to rail on me for starting RQS in an RVS meta, to further observe group dynamics. I suppose nobody really cares about the latter bit.

Going to VOTE: Wicked for now, for being in the trash heap. What they have going for them: some idea of group dynamics mattering (gambit). Against: that early macho act about being in a previous game/pointing out an obvious quirk. 177 reads like scumstration - it's a hilariously disingenuous question. The following post does no favors either, going back to establishing a role of authority, and, after plainly shutting down Acid, for an otherwise perfectly valid reason, when they themselves had previously probed a similar possibility earlier on!



I thought I would let everybody know that I have an otherworldly power that allows me to detect bullshit. I would love,

love

to go over the numerous times I've found a little detail that put me over the edge and made me feel like I was no longer on the same planet anymore. Instead I'll restrain myself, pull myself together and share the following in hopes that at least one other person can be as detached from the living world as much as I am:

think the lynch list is the best way to play this cause you get wolf reactions

Acid, if I'm town and you're town there's five other townies you can try to convince with that pitch. If you want to let the cat out of the bag this early, you're losing a large part of the power behind your pressure.

What do you see happening next?

the thing about the pressure of this

is that given the setup

the wolves can't just rationally do it

because you can read on opposition to it

I think right now that list has 3-4 wolves a vast majority of the time
(i don't think it's ever the full team though)

if I'm right, wolves

have to oppose it

yes, there is some wine

but opening the cask was always a necessary step for the game

This seems like something you shouldn't have explained until after people had had a chance to react. The WIFOM is stronger now.

This seems like something you shouldn't have explained until after people had had a chance to react. The WIFOM is stronger now.

well if lycan didnt ask I wouldn't have had to

>_>

The proverbial cask was unleashed prior to my question, and I only asked the question because the idea of approaching the game based on group dynamics became a bust. Wicked was happy to play the fool here, while Acidphoenix humored him, threw back some listerine and spat out an alternate universe. Acid is 100% a lynch on a Wicked scumflip.

[Lycanfire]

Momma didn't raise no shitposter. This is a sequel.

I mentioned Wisdom earlier on and how

I thought

he might care about a post and how I cared about how he may care.

Trust me, this is leaving shitpost territory and hitting some heights really quickly.

Early on nobody seemed to care about Wisdom actively screaming that they're likely wrong about their reads. I'm going to play some 5D chess and townread this: certainly this is the lowest of the efforts to actually push, making it prime S+S real estate to build a shitpost upon. Instead we had a reply like Diamond being so very close to seeing the nuance in it before having it taken away like all the toys his parents never let him have as a child.

Later on, I made a purposely inflammatory post in 86 re: Acidphoenix play, and Wisdom followed up by caring little for it, and rather than affirm my beliefs in any way he immediately scumread me for it while townreading Acid. I never disclosed my read on what I implied as AI play, and realizing that Wisdom, someone I perceive as similarly inquisitive as I am would not take the bait, I dropped the matter and shared my read on Acid.

This nuance was not left on me when Chara townread me for zero progression in my reads in 142. Chara and I have played a few games together, and I'm suddenly weighing whether they should know better to townread me for

those specific posts

against Chara's seething need to townhunt somebody. It's like bringing a baseball bat to a football game. You're not thinking with your feet, Chara!

[Lycanfire]

were you not calling them possible scum in the first post?

My very first thought was that acidphoenix was at the forefront of the game and that was suspicious because that wasn't what I expected of him. That could be because he has

four teammates

that he knows by name. My next thought was that nothing he was saying was actually suspicious, and he was approaching the game the same way I had been. If I were to slice his interaction with Wicked out of my brain he would be my strongest townread.

By the time I made either of those posts my mind was made up. The key detail is Wisdom not having any of it, and if he wouldn't, nobody would insert themselves into that conversation, so immediately putting my own comment down was the best play. Having anyone severely miss the point (pursuing group dynamics is good) is a scumclaim in this scenario.

take pity on me, i just woke up to go to the dentist and lycan has now dragged me twice.

You're not making it any better for yourself

[Lycanfire]

Chara, can you summarize the game so far by hitting key points in how the game has progressed?

[Lycanfire]

Against: that early macho act about being in a previous game/pointing out an obvious quirk.

What are you trying to say here? It's not clear to me.

The following post does no favors either, going back to establishing a role of authority, and, after plainly shutting down Acid, for an otherwise perfectly valid reason, when they themselves had previously probed a similar possibility earlier on!

What are you trying to say here? It's not clear to me.

I feel like 178 is a poor let down with regards to what acidphoenix is suggesting. It's a continuation of your post 15 and I feel like you're more concerned with establishing yourself as a person that will direct the game state opposed to actively take it and lead it.

177 reads like scumstration - it's a hilariously disingenuous question.

kunkstar's list of lynchable people only consists of the five least-contributing players. What's concerning is the fact that I'm the only one who asked him about it. Because that's either very lazy or demonstrates a true lack of interest in sorting those who are contributing.

Yes, we all get that you didn't like it. Is his list that scummy, and if you truly feel like it is, is that your home run argument on scum? Is Kunk so lockscum at that point for you that rather than get town!Kunk in the game you disparage him when you clearly have nothing better to post anyway - see the above reference to your post 178. You talk down Kunk in the the previous post- 177! What a drag on the game state.

I don't have any solid scumreads on anyone else just yet.

This is town.

[Lycanfire]

I'm not really sure what to do here. Has the site meta changed in the last year and a half, so now people just don't give reasons for their votes? If so, then that just sucks. Or are people in so many other games that they just don't care about this one? I have explained my vote for Diamond and I've talked about why all the points against me are invalid, yet the votes all remain.

Lycanfire's vote seems like the worst, after Diamond's. He ignores the criticisms that I've gotten from Diamond/Wisdom but still manages to join the wagon for his own (weak) reasons. It feels like he's just trying to come up with his own justification for voting me to avoid being attacked for opportunism, rather than genuinely finding me more suspicious than anyone else.

Welcome to why people don't make cases. I spent the entirety of Kidney Mafia asking for votes on Maki and arguably had better results at having people listen to me than I had in any other game.

I don't recall referencing any of your criticisms at all, you do not ask me to reply in kind in any way, and, frankly, I view them both as town and openly stated my reads on both. Why should I entertain your thoughts on my townreads if you don't care to have me justify my reads any further? If I'm superscum getting hunted like a Baratheon here, my stances on everyone is important to have on paper. I have no incentive to do any of this as it is. Another disingenuous question.

I definitely feel that my bandwagon is being pushed by scum and am getting the impression that the town-aligned players just don't want to work together this game.

You seem to have an inkling that certain players are town and don't want to put in the work. You clearly have some people in mind. Who's town?


Wicked: Can you tell me what you meant by Diamond being scummy regardless of Maki's alignment, and can you explanation your progression on going after Kunkstar over either of those- Maki in particular drops off the face of the earth for you quite early, while you're content to hiss scum from a distance with Diamond. Maki seems to let bygones be bygones immediately after you chastise Kunk in her post 180 - but you do not respond and your Kunk vote only materializes in 213. What gives?

[Lycanfire]

Not_Mafia - Scum
Wisdom- Who knows
Carcalilly- Don't know who this is.
Maki Harukawa- Lots of words, not saying much
Wickedestjr- Scum
Lycanfire- Scum
Brian Skies- Scum
acidphoenix- Scum
UC Voyager-Scum
DiamondSentinel- Still not sure if tone is scum or not
Chara- meh
kunkstar7- Don't know who this is

Page 5

read up and sort maki please

[Lycanfire]

want thoughts from acidphoenix before i die of old age

[Lycanfire]

I am interested in how Acid is walking off my suggestion that he and Wicked had a conversation about events that he should have known did not take place the way he was suggesting them to have occurred.

Mulch, what's your take on post 242?

[Lycanfire]

I am interested in how Acid is walking off my suggestion that he and Wicked had a conversation about events that he should have known did not take place the way he was suggesting them to have occurred.

Mulch, what's your take on post 242?

Will read later. Haven’t read any of the game srry

I'm asking about a single post

[Lycanfire]

I am interested in how Acid is walking off my suggestion that he and Wicked had a conversation about events that he should have known did not take place the way he was suggesting them to have occurred.

Mulch, what's your take on post 242?

?

can you reword the first sentence? i don't know who you're saying suggested what.

See the latter half of 196.

[Lycanfire]

185 from Wicked is towny and i don't want to vote it.

You shouldn't with how his posts have progressed.

Chara, can you summarize the game so far by hitting key points in how the game has progressed?

how effective do you think this question is now that you've explained your methodology?

I have in my notes:

200 chara - tries really hard to force a townread on me. goes out on a limb to suggest something i've spoken to the contrary on (DUBIOUS). talks about their personal satisfaction (INTERESTING WORDCHOICE). doesn't get group dynamics despite having acidphoenix and myself talk about it- THIS IS THE PLACE TO PUSH. ask for them to summerize the game and to give their thoughts. this post ALONE should tell their align.

The fact that you glossed over what acidphoenix and I were trying to do by first saying in 200 that you didn't get it, and further saying here that acidphoenix offered scumreads and nothing more is what is going to keep you in the scumpile. I looked at your post 200 and saw something I disagreed with, another part had word choice I personally liked: by the end of it you were clearly not

in

the game and if you're town, you need to be in the game.

244: lycan, why is it a player's responsibility to be nice to someone they're trying to read instead of using a question that generates conflict? the game runs on conflict. you're talking like Wicked has been insulting kunkstar instead of noting problems with the list.

I flat-out said why: because he had nothing better to do! He was sitting on a scumread on Diamond, and openly said he would not move votes. Wicked took a detour in putting down Kunkstar, which he later stated to UCV as being his primary inspiration to vote him [kunk]. In the

immediate

post after putting down Kunkstar, he puts down acidphoenix, for reasons I stated were

not bad reasons

IF you were to ignore that Wicked briefly had the same thoughts previously- see his early 'gambit'!

Lastly, with all gambits dead in the water there's a main takeaway here: the game has progressed to the point where I doubt we can reverse and choose find five people to lynch as a breaking strategy.

Therefore the conclusion townies need to make is that you can only lynch ONE person.

See how I actively sort you versus how he was sitting on his hands with Kunkstar.

i started this ready to vote Wicked, but i don't feel good about the wagon and think he's town.

If you're not town, you're getting strung soon as well.

[Lycanfire]

[Lycanfire]

obviously the cask was already open but it wasn't tipped as far over

i honestly have no clue what the logic behind the rest of that was except for the conclusion

Aren't Wicked and I generally saying the same thing "this is a bust/what next?" I feel like you should have been able read that it was over by the time you made your original post. Saying my question forced your hand into killing any power behind it is simply untrue.

[Lycanfire]

you flat out said you were looking for 'wolf reactions'. there's no b. it's a to shitty furry fan fiction.

[Lycanfire]

UC Voyager is a tough one to read here because on one hand his progression makes no sense, especially considering it was an

unvote

as a switch off of Wicked rather than a vote hop. He was leaning pretty hard into his Wicked vote with pretty much no substance but still leaning hard, then the one Not_Mafia post and now its "welp gotta take a look at NM let's forget about Wicked". I think the fact that its an unvote is whats really getting me here. Now the other side of that is I'm not sure him being well-versed in MS play, but seeing as this is not a newbie I'm just going to take this one at face value and throw him into scum side.

I think his "it's funny how NM suspects myself / the one I'm voting for" post to be hilariously bad, when you consider UCV supposedly forgot they were voting for Wicked, and UCV "voted" after NM. This post bleeds innocence to me in a one-step forward two-steps back kind of way. If he's scum, should he really say something this stupid, and from a town pov finding someone to scumread, especially for personally-bad but objectively-good reasons makes me feel like he personally wants to find scum. The vote off of Wicked doesn't look strange when you consider that.

[Lycanfire]

Can Michael and Mulch cool it a bit on the strongarming here.

Regarding lynching acidphoenix, I don't trust your gut. Frankly, re: his response to me, holding out on what a town!acidphoenix may have wanted to do, feeling burned and denying every step of the way is about the closest to the expected behavior I can imagine here, even if I maintain what he was doing was dead in the water before I told him as much. I'm not lynching him today, because he's vaguely town to me without a Wicked flip.

Michael in particular lowly ranks Wicked but keeps him as a peripheral scumread. Why is he not more prominent? I feel like with the two sides of the wagons on Kunkstar and Wicked respectively, if you think one of these is scum, there is an active counterwagon on the other. If you think he's town, he should be no where near the bottom, and how are the wagoners rationalized (465). Is this a massive TvT or are you (Michael) revising your reads?

I really dislike how Mulch pretends not to know who Wicked is, ignored my question and has two objectives: control day phase with Michael, secondly, lynch acid. In that order. I feel like if someone is going to be town intentioned, they would at least flip their priorities around. After all, he is supposedly never wrong on acidphoenix, and if we're to trust him on that one, he ought to trust himself.

More to come when I can find motivation...

[Lycanfire]

I feel really lethargic right now.

Can we get together and do a soft reset?

We need to establish:
We have to lynch somebody

-> Who should that be?

-> Can we agree to lynch that person?

Keep going until we find somebody.

I'm in on Wicked.
-I feel like he has tried too hard to be useful while actively holding back the game state
--For instance, he has pointed out how self sacrifice will guarantee flips. I'm sure everybody (1) questioned how perpetual mylo worked (2) looked at the setup (3) realized the game would last a single day (4) looked at the mechanics that made the game perpetual.

-Wicked made an early gambit, and that was in fact good on him, however he used the above problem to strike down Acidphoenix's 5-man plan, citing how flips will be huge for the town.
--This point is something I mentioned as being good,

if not

for the fact that his gambit was very similar. I feel like this is my main point in support of a Wicked lynch.

-Maki is a peripheral scumread of mine, and Wicked has scumread her, pushed Diamond, and when he reached a lull, did not interact with Maki when she attempted to clear the air with him. Wicked re-appears to place a vote on Kunk many posts later, when he could have done so sooner.
--I feel like this is some kind of a misstep as Wicked's read on Maki has never evolved and he has placed no effort in sorting her. If he thinks Maki is town, he should work with her, and do anything to progress the game on that front. If he thinks Maki is scum, all he has to do is repeat it at some point? (e.g.

great, you're still scum though

) I've been trying to get people to express their reads on Maki, and he is unable to do that.


If you shoot me down, you have to suggest somebody. Let's play it that way until we get past the gutreads that are doing nothing for anyone not named Michael or Mulch.

[Lycanfire]

--This point is something I mentioned as being good, if not for the fact that his gambit was very similar. I feel like this is my main point in support of a Wicked lynch.

talk about this? how was his gambit to get discussion going similar to acid's plan?

See, this is why I disliked your game synopsis Chara. You ignored the group dynamics of Wicked's gambit, and simply made everything about the act itself vs his detractors.

I feel like Wicked's gambit was a lighter version of what acid suggested: pick a group of five and run with it. Wicked lacked the smoking gun acid had, and instead tried looking like a badass for supposedly solving the game. For someone that seemingly pushed acid in the direction he ran in, Wicked was very quick to yank him back.

[Lycanfire]

Somebody can shoot me down and suggest Chara at any time

[Lycanfire]

your responses to me make me feel that you're either on another plane of existence

Subject: Newbie 1791: Dragon Warrior (Game Over - Scum win!)

Oh boy oh jeez ok fine I'll role claim. I am bus driver.

Cheeky but perhaps better aimed at your scum partner.

@everyone, I'd be interested to hear a bit of self-evaluation for each of you. Just an idea of your overall experience level, and what sort of player you perceive yourself to be.

As for me, I'm quite active, as you'll see, and I generally ask a lot of questions. I kind of crave engagement. I have gotten enough lynch votes wrong to reduce my level of certainty about most reads. But I think my strength is in seeing poor arguments for what they are, and explaining why they are poor. I'm not always good at deciphering whether a poor argument is coming from a sincere place or not. I'm also a sucker for mea culpas. If you tell me I'm right, I'll very likely town read you! But, now I told you my weakness, so someone else will spot your manipulation.

I've been pegged as a question-asker but it's never something I consciously do. I very much like to feel engaged with the game-the worst feeling in this game is having your reads ignored or having people say they won't read your posts. I'm a player that over thinks things too hard. People tend to call my arguments reachy, and they're not exactly wrong, however I always dig in and insist that I'm taking a reasonable position. For better or for worse I feel like I appear from a bizarro world and offer an account of the game that nobody else comprehends.

Lynching the wrong person feels bad-but lynching the wrong person and letting scum get away feels worse. I suggest that you have no remorse when you get confident, and if you aren't confident, work on building your reads so you can be. My first three games on this site led to me getting endgamed as town when I either had the game nearly figured out (1), or had it entirely figured out, but got led astray by a townie (2). What's worse than lynching a townie is letting the town get endgamed because you don't want to follow through.

[PROCEEDS TO VOTE THE SECOND MAFIASO]

[Lycanfire]

Look, Chara, this is a game with five scum. That's a large pool you can mine for resources. There is no fancy magic to it. This is what I have been talking about when I referenced

group dynamics

. With acid's post about wolf reactions this pool has shrunk quite drastically. It hasn't disappeared, but a slip became less likely. What we have left is a typical pool of scum- the slight advantage we may have gained by exploiting the size relative to the town has been lost, but there's still five people we can solve, which is more than we would get in any other mini.

I felt quite good about Wicked and Acidphoenix until Wicked interfered with Acid. That's why that is my main point. I saw a part of my own work in their posts. This is further complicated by acid's interaction with Wicked. I see Wicked as scum, while acid might be scum over someone like Mulch for example. I think I have a good pool of four, and yes you're in it. I don't want to make this about groups of five, and my reads should be pretty obvious right now with the exception of NM as scum, mainly due to complicating matters re: maki.

[Lycanfire]

I would like to add that if you aren't open to vote Wicked, you should play by the rules. Being difficult doesn't make me feel like you want to be on my side. If you aren't going to play by the rules either, you're not town.

[Lycanfire]

Oh, wow. I never actually voted Balki in Newbie 1781. I blame Mastina for being mia all the time.

Suddenly I do understand a little more why everyone in that game was ignoring my constant casing of Balki.

[Lycanfire]

Why are you voting acid?

[Lycanfire]

I don't view Mulch as self destructive. Just destructive in general.

[Lycanfire]

If Mulch was doing as you propose, wouldn't he need supporters?

[Lycanfire]

those supporters would reveal themselves as supporters (scum) and be lynchable, therefore ruining the point of Mulch self-destructing and being sacrificed after the lynch.

do you think i'm wrong? i'm very used to being wrong.

You're running away with the conclusion here to support the premise.

If you believe the premise (Mulch is self destructive scum, and wants to go 1:1), then surely the best way to go about that is to get towns on your side. He could be doing this with Michael, yourself, or failing entirely.

Instead you jump to a conclusion that makes little sense if you do believe the premise. How could Mulch get from A to B if he is open wolfing?

[Lycanfire]

Play the game Mulch.

[Lycanfire]

I empathize. I was thinking of bowing out yesterday with a less kind message. I'm a very worn and tired person and seeing the thread ripped apart made me wondering if I was still playing mafia.

I did not ask for replacement or ask for some postnatal wotc because despite feeling like going on is no longer possible, I don't know that, and I especially do not know Mulch or Michael's alignments, and I don't want to lose to either of them if they turn up scum. I can't let this be a valid strategy, so the only thing I can do is stake it out and hope at least one of them is town and is willing to put the brakes on the posting, and get a little serious with me.

I hope this explains my Mulch scumread a bit more.

[Lycanfire]

ISOing people is a poor way to gain reads for anyone. The only benefit an ISO has over reading the thread is allowing you to view trends in one person's posting more easily.

[Lycanfire]

That's plenty time to have your own read and at least state it. Klunk Wicked and Acid one of those are getting lynched most likely I'd suggest looking in that direction for now I am off to lunch

Play the game, scumfuck

[Lycanfire]

you're worrying me, shuichi

[Lycanfire]

Nice Wicked counterwagon

[Lycanfire]

Lynch him if we hit dl but this is a pathetic crawl away from the only wagon that has mattered for the past 20 pages. Enjoy Mulch's godread that got him replaced because he was too cool to play games.

[Lycanfire]

Last I remember your group dynamics were implying a viomi/wicked scumteam, what changed?

It was the strange sequence acid re: wicked wrt the gambit's viability after acid OR my post that trouble me. Since it is an interaction it is mostly dependent on my Wicked sr

Thr group dynamics discussion was in both of their favor until Acid gave up and blamed me while Wicked went back on his (wicked's) own ambitions on the matter. I see Wicked as contradictory and my biggest SR among other reasons

Im phoneposting from work read my posts

[Lycanfire]

Acid townflip= his lynch5 list gambit should be looked into

[Lycanfire]

Remaining scum w/Wicked should be there

[Lycanfire]

Is miu nm

Can i have a cartoon slot too

[Lycanfire]

I"M HERE BITCHES

VOTE: acidphoenix

This is lock scum, trust me gg

ROFL I JUST HAVE A GOD READ ON ACID SHEEP ME DUMBOS LOL

the theory of Mulch scum self-destructing to mislynch acid doesn't apply now that two of them are doing it.

Hmm. What if a non-Acid lynch looked so good at the time of Mulch's entrance that the scumteam messed up the plan? Rationalizing why Mulch went to such extreme lengths to ignore my calls for content, and only become more ridiculous after I asked for a soft reset is proving very difficult.

And not only that if you were to do such a thing you as the moderator have the reasponsipility for warning and force replacing yourself, not leaving it up to the players who could be using it as a game strategy. Atriocious.

Chara: you seemed to think Mulch was incredibly scummy at some point before Michael synchronized with Mulch, but you only make one post that really supports that:

i could lynch Mulch and Michael for that exchange alone.

the above is an exaggeration. it's still scummy.

In fact, during the whole debacle, after you say your bit on Wicked/Kunkstar, you seemingly become very obsessed with Mulch's alignment

i'll gladly lynch Michael for the sake of my sanity in general.
but no, it's my business to be the tolerant one.

why am i town after Mulch, Michael?

both of you know better than to scumread me for being "frozen"

also, the fact that you managed to use meta on me and aggressively push me for a case means that either a. (less likely) people don't care about your case and you're searching for opportunities for me to post the Einstein insanity quote

or b(more likely). your case is dogshit given how blatant the differences apparently are(source: toranaga) and how easy they should be to get across

do you have actually good reads




disclaimer haven't read the case and don't see a reason to

why do neither of these options carry an implicit "i'm town"? i can't see it.
why aren't Mulch and/or Michael scum pushing you?

i've been tuning those two out and i still am, but i'm less opposed to an acid lynch than i was before this post.

[Lycanfire]

I dont know what Lycan's 1001 is all about, would rather get some conclusions from there tyvm.

i'm calling u a scumbutt. the post relies on the suggestion that mulch acted like he didn't want to play the game by actually playing the game. chara made an interesting post d1 about how it could be strategy, but discounted the possibility of that. specifically, chara said mulch could have suiciding his slot onto acidphoenix. if i run with that theory at the time Mulch did so, it makes a lot of sense, because if one goes down the other looks good- except, somehow acid really did get lynched, and mulch (you) don't look any better for it. you know, it being some shitty read from your pred and you fully trusted for reasons.

chara never really scumread your slot after the opening, and subtly suggested Mulch was town when interacting with others. as if chara wanted to grow the perception of town!Mulch, without actually saying so. reads manipulative as fuck.

the one problem with my theory is that i don't know how acid gets lynched over wicked. kunkstar wasn't going to happen- that was a tried and failed counterwagon. did both wagons land on scum and the scumteam decided to mercy kill the slot for townpoints? it isn't inspiring-but that would be the best move in this single scenario.

i presented it with questions rather than a final conclusion because

i'm

having problems coming to the conclusion- i'm not saying this is an end-all, game-solved read, but chara continually refuses to game solve, while they also made a really similar post to Mulch, and Mulch's posting d1 is a problem to me. that is the problem i want to solve. in my mind all behavior makes sense. even if he wants to scream godread all day i did my damnedest to reel him in, to commentate, to give me a second name. the closest to lucidity mulch got was saying michael was 100% town or scum bussing.... so essentially he claimed he can't read anyone worth shit, while claiming to know acid's alignment.

that

was the result of mulch working with other people.

[Lycanfire]

DiamondSentinel Chara Wickedestjr
Kaede Akamatsu
Lycanfire Dunnstral
Shuichi Saihara
kunkstar7 Wisdom

Where I'm at atm.

why do you sr shuichi and this is day 2 get

read

rid of your nulls

[Lycanfire]

gonna be honest whenever i see wisdom's avi i just assume he's calling for wicked to hang so i just let him do whatever he wants

[Lycanfire]

found the wisdom quote. he seemed to think it was a distraction off of wicked. not exactly the s+s suiciding i'm suggesting here. i think putting the light on it when mulch claims he could have been working as part of a strategy still makes you look bad. that does assume that mulch had a strategy and wasn't simply throwing a fit.

[Lycanfire]

the difference is that i'm sure wisdom would game solve if i asked him. i have to kidnap you and take you to game solve mountain, only to hear you say "nope" and jump off a cliff every time

[Lycanfire]

i wanted more comments on my mulch thoughts because i thought i was super cool and ending the game up until i couldn't explain acid's lynch

VOTE: Wicked

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: kunkstar
why does Viomi's scumflip initially make you think Wicked is scum too? it doesn't sound like you considered scum theatre until it was brought up, the way you phrased it.

because i have no reason to think he's not scum

[Lycanfire]

mb i thought you were restarting the wicked counterwagon

[Lycanfire]

why else would i have made that post if i didn't believe your vote was a response to mine? i thought the commentary was directed towards me.

[Lycanfire]

mafia isn't a joking matter chara

[Lycanfire]

kunkstar7

(2): Maki Harukawa, Chara

wow holy shit who wouldn't vote for this. it's wicked's personally chosen counterwagon with scumfuck A and scumfuck B on it.

oh wait

Vote Count 1-10

kunkstar7

(4): Chara, Wickedestjr, Brian Skies, Maki Harukawa

Wickedestjr

(4): Wisdom, Lycanfire, Not_Mafia, DiamondSentinel

acidphoenix

(1): Mulch

DiamondSentinel

(1): acidphoenix

Not Voting

(2): kunkstar7, UC Voyager

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: November 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-11-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- Searching for a replacement for Brian Skies.
-

guess we should lynch acidphoenix. clearly this is the only wagon that makes sense

[Lycanfire]

kaede constant 'game doesn't make sense' is shitcommentary

chara+kaede+shuichi drawing attention to the nk is bad. diamond's was bad, but diamond isn't trying to get the town to guess why.

Someone engage with me. I hate lurking, but I can't find anything I care to comment on right now.

I could try to give another read list, see if that'll fix things. But as it is, my head is hurting too much trying to remember what happened yesterday and so my reads are skewed.

As it is, Chara's sitting at town, Wisdom's at town, Shuichi's at null!scum, wicked still scum, and blondie and Maki are sitting at solid nulls.

get rid of your nulls

do you really have nothing to talk about? i could vomit a lot of viewpoints atm, but i'm not sure what would be noise and what would communicate the direction i want to move in. if you have nothing on the table, should you have the same concern?

for instance (and everybody at home can play this game too) which of these posts seem genuine to you?

@mod do mafia have daychat?

This looks like a townslip?

And to address everyone suspecting kunkstar today, explain to me why he casts the L-1 vote for viomi with Dunn visibly wavering unless he's also scum with wicked in which case vote there first.

This is a good point.
But then, why is he going after wicked still?
Like idgi, let's assume for a momment that wicked's gonna flip scum, why does kunstar still go after Wicked today if they are both scum.

Actually it doesnt make sense for kunkstar scum to do that either... ugh im just second guessing myself again
UNVOTE:

Hi maki, want to talk about reads? Consider than an invitation, because I want to talk about your reads and mine with you. Who should we lynch from your perspective? Why do you suspect kunk?

Acids interactions with me make me town and I was one of the first ones to want them lynched I don't think you can call me scum here.
Do people think Wicked is scum? Why feeling fine on my Shuichi sr now

Christ why don't you all just lynch me already, if this isn't obvtown I have no fucking idea what is.

I shouldn't let that post be the straw that breaks it because diamond is just scum but this is getting old. I've been nothing but an asset to this town.

Uhh, I thought lurking Maki was town Maki? or did I get that wrong. Well she will probably say I shouldn't use meta to read her anyway.
But, what If you're scum trying to get a point?.
Although Sushi i can probably trust.

[Lycanfire]

my flip on all (by that i mean like, three) of my reads was because my reads didn't make sense with the gamestate. also, Wicked hasn't done anything impressive recently. ;>

can you explain what your reads are atm

[Lycanfire]

One thing I enjoyed from her was the "trusting my predecessor's read" debacle. I don't think that's the tack scum take to look town while voting their buddy. Also, the exchange with Viomi around that issue came off well to me.

somehow acid really did get lynched, and mulch (you) don't look any better for it.

?????

sorry i have a backlog of posts i do want to look into but this one relates to a previous one of yours. i said my piece on mulch (said he could read acid 100%, then later said he had a godread on michael, then said michael was town or bussing scum, making any read mostly worthless). kaede 'not looking better' is an extension of that: kaede stated no personal reason beyond mulch's read... which mulch had no reason for either, but somehow managed to find scum. it's less of a leap and more of an attempt to fly.

[Lycanfire]

Is it my imagination or Lycan's strawmanning my read on viomi.

Your read was bad, and not really the point. The point is that it wasn't an original thought. I find it interesting that you take issue with this part and not the whole giant theoryball I threw start of day that in the end I couldn't convince myself very well of it. You stood there and took that one like a champ, for some god damn reason.

Anyways, as for the genuine posts:

612: I can't tell if it's genuine or not. It's terrible reasoning, but that's not indicative.
1098: Irks me a bit. I want to believe it's genuine (mostly for that third line), but the rest of it leads me to believe it's not.
1086: Seems genuine enough. I just need more content from Dunnstral.
1100: I don't care if this is genuine or not, I hate people saying "omg im so town"
1130: I would love to make Shuichi eat rope for this post alone. I'm torn between Wicked and Shuichi. Personally, I want a Shuichi lynch more than anything, but I see Wicked as the more likely wagon.
1138: I don't like that post. Doesn't say much, non-committal, etc. As it is, I'm tempted to say it's not genuine.

Main thing that irks me about your conclusions is my perception that you analyzed them in a vaccuum. I thought they all had a pretty clear theme, even if they all read like shit. Basically, there's no reason to towntell Maki for something that was braindead, no reason to townread her for failing to provide content, while Maki shouldn't be convincing us that she's town at this stage- she can start by not looking like scum, not making a scumpost, or helping find scum rather than waste the energy on whatever that post was supposed to be.

I purposely omitted Dunnstral's previous post to Maki, failing to take a hard stance and assert yourself on it is weak.

Shuichi does something similar to Maki, but he's in the midst of a slapfight, so it doesn't come off nearly as forced.

[Lycanfire]

Chara-

Tone. tone tone tone, I just don't dislike anything Chara posts I feel like they're trying to solve the game another factor is I have a sr on wisdom and Chara and wisdom don't feel like scum vs scum to me (also a bit bias given a lot of Chara's reads seem to stack up to mine.

This is weak. Chara has failed to town up on several occasions and it's tone that rustles your jimmies?

Lycanfire-

I really want to know more about where this guy stands on his reads I see a few walls but from mostly what I can tell is he agrees a lot with wisdom? (lol) He also had this magic

"I can read Maki off one game"

that makes me roll my eyes for now he's null I don't really see him pushing much or showing a lot of desire for a lynch I kinda just want him to pick something and try to push it or show interest

I never said that. I said I had more success being listened to by saying nothing besides "we should lynch X" and citing that game as an example. Who I was promoting as a lynch wasn't relevant.

Also, if I were to "read you off one game" it would be off a game you aren't aware that we played together.

I had a slight town read on Maki by the end of yesterday.

why

[Lycanfire]

we are not lynching wisdom or shuichi

[Lycanfire]

I didn't get to mention yesterday but Shuichi doesn't really sit well with my either. A lot of their given reads and positions are given with the caveat of

being willing to back away from them quite easily, or just the general "man I could be totally wrong" vibe

that accompanied most given positions just feels very noncommittal to me. Doesn't help that it was UC's slot either.

a lot of this going on in the last few pages here. are they scum too?

[Lycanfire]

Scum do look really obvious right now, but my reads mean one of my townreads are scum. I think the failure of us having a clear direction day 1 is indicative that I couldn't get anything working with a group of (myself, wisdom, diamond, kunkstar, uc voyager} together. I'd say if there's scum in my townreads, it's Diamond, which explains a lot, to be honest, looking at the wagons in response to Wicked.

[Lycanfire]

That's the only way Kaede could be town, too, as I had NM as scum. Dunnstral could be scum here. I did think Michael was more townie than Mulch, but Dunnstral's effort and sorting of Maki isn't very laser pointed. It's feels like a meatball.

[Lycanfire]

Trying to hammer down the teams isn't all that helpful here. I do think Wicked is scum and that a weak mafiaso was chosen to die in his place when Kunkstar didn't work out. If there's something I respect about Wicked it's that he actually posts content, but I don't have any reason to townread him.

[Lycanfire]

I am quite worried that whenever I townread Kunk or Diamond they go away for longer, or how when I vomited in thread that I was Zachstral reading Shuichi suddenly a lot of Shuichi SRs appeared. I do want to reread.

[Lycanfire]

Actually if wicked flips scum I'll take kunkstar for the last spot

Why do you feel this way? I feel like this was the wagon to avert a scum lynch, so an unlikely scum with scum!Wicked. Diamond vs Wicked could be more of a bus, even though the build up was there, and less abrupt than say, Kunkstar.

[Lycanfire]

chara has to answer for their reads evolution esp. considering they opted to sheep over justify when i asked.

[Lycanfire]

No weeb gambits until I get home from work

[Lycanfire]

[Lycanfire]

i spent all morning fixing my laptop and i swear to god if i get replaced over it i'm phone shitposting in every mafia game in every queue until mafiascum dies a cold death

expect some effort soon

meantime: of the people that want Dunnstral I really only care for Kunkstar's thoughts on the matter. why's that vote so good for you?

[Lycanfire]

frankly my notes have become muddled and complicated that they appear to do exactly what i'm defining scum as doing today in it. rather than use it argumentatively i'd rather plainly ask shuichi and kaede how they feel about the following topics

1) We have two mislynches
2) All scum are confirmed to have bussed
3) Complexity of the game state
4) The necessity of PoE

[Lycanfire]

I feel like I'm seeing things that don't exist (Chara, Kaede have a clear direction, while Diamond, Maki are similarly posting about the same themes). Currently I'm rationalizing each post and concluded I can only ethically scrutinize each theme or argumentatively criticize it, but not both. Plainly, I think Chara|Kaede talk about PoE to be a tie-in to Diamond|Maki creating a narrative that a mislynch doesn't matter; while similarly I feel like Diamond and Maki have been shading me in particular. All four of these players can't be scum.

A strange development happened when I was rereading on my phone this morning without access to my notes: I wondered if it mattered if I efforted if we were one to win. My thoughts were that of course it mattered, because I want to sweep rather than yolo vote. Defining that the lynch mattered, I asked myself how it was all right to get there. I operate in my own way in mafia. While I'm sure I could hold my phone over a notebook I'm a spoiled prick that likes to save whole posts - also my writing is very poor (the suffering of a southpaw), while my typing speed is incredibly fast. I was wondering if PoE

wasn't

simply a way

[Lycanfire]

uh yeah that's my continuation i was working on that i cut away from my questions and my index finger slammed left click with a fury never seen before while the pointer was over submit

now i get to finish my conclusions--

I was wondering if PoE

wasn't

simply a way to to draw apathy into the game or allow a mislynch to go through, and if there was anything ethically wrong in using PoE as a method of getting to that lynch. I ended up concluding there wasn't anything ethically wrong in that, and my issues on the matter were purely aimed at the premise (do we lack resources to find scum to begin with.)

Onto "a mislynch"/ Maki plainly defines that if she's town, her mislynch doesn't matter. I feel like this builds a narrative where the game is so obviously won, it doesn't matter if we end up lynching town. Meanwhile, Diamond openly says so as well, while both of them are holding me as a primary scumread (back to "complexity"). Regarding "scum bussed", both Maki and Kunkstar make references to it, while both are Dunnstral voters, while Diamond is pretty hard on Kunkstar, even though I don't feel like that's the best vote for him.

(This post is a bit of a mess. Also, I'm not making conclusions because from a reread Diamond looks very townie-up to today. Dunnstral's preds both look very interesting, hence my question to Kunkstar.)

[Lycanfire]

(I'm making conclusions... by the way, i'm not making conclusions. maybe sometime eventually.)

[Lycanfire]

Maki suggesting that it's acceptable to mislynch just because we can rubs me the wrong way.

Can you explain your thought process?

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: Maki

Maki's self vote implicitly harms the town. It defines that it's okay to lynch townies. I don't have a problem with this mechanically (town lynch=scum death);

however

it is ethically wrong, and if it's ethically wrong and Maki is not ignorant of this, she is being malicious in suggesting it.

Her interactions with Wicked do her no favors: in particular how she evolved her read on Wicked at a critical juncture, only to be ignored while Wicked decided to shade Kunk/Acid and later vote Kunk 20 posts later. I'm quite sure Wicked was feeling set up to go later than he did at this point- all he had was Diamond and myself attacking him, so I wouldn't count deliberately making a bad (non-existent) interaction as likely over "Maki as scum"-purposely refusing to evolve his read on Maki, because no matter what he would say in that scenario wouldn't help the scumteam in the

B

case.

I don't discount the

A

case where Maki is town and Wicked purposely made this look bad: but what is the point in observing that as likely? A town!Maki here wasn't being townread, wasn't being in the game, and was being adversarial to Wicked (something something useless gambit, a post which prompted a reply from Wicked early game).

That's plenty time to have your own read and at least state it. Klunk Wicked and Acid one of those are getting lynched most likely I'd suggest looking in that direction for now I am off to lunch

This is a post I disliked because Maki wasn't playing by my "rules" I set out in my "soft reset" post. She didn't push anyone, and gave meek consent to lynch three people. Never mind how Kunk or Wicked wasn't much of a package deal here: Kunk was a defined counterwagon to Wicked previously. This post doesn't push anything or express her views on the wagons that were on the board. Maki's post could best be described as "here's the current wagons look into them".

However these reads are expanded later on:

snip

Wickedestjr

- Counter wagon to scum plus I haven't seen a lot of valid reasons that make this scum vs scum wagons I'm a bit puzzled because of the "why does klunk not switch" but this guys silly gambits kinda make more sense coming from town then they do scum I don't see him trying to reap a ton of cred from it but I do need to glance at his later posts since my eyes kinda glaze over sometimes.

snip

kunkstar7-

If I have a read wrong it'll be this one I was just skimming his iso again and I was getting somewhat cold feet but I don't wanna just release my sr on klunk when it was so strong before I didn't like the stances he was doing early on in the game his only redeeming points for me are a few interactions along with the L-1 vote but I don't think a few reasons should outweigh the overall feel I get from this guy

BAD EVOLUTION

VOTE: Wisdom

One of the only people I don't tr from the wicked wagon

DiamondSentinel Chara Wickedestjr
Kaede Akamatsu
Lycanfire Dunnstral
Shuichi Saihara
kunkstar7 Wisdom

Where I'm at atm.

(I did not post from post 1001 to 1057)

Bad interactions

I mean it felt like to me Viomi was really trying to get me to switch to Wicked at the end of the day

VOTE: Maki Harukawa

Do you think Wicked is scum?

compare to

Really wanna know dimonds reads atm

snip

DiamondSentinel-

Read acid iso and that's a lot of the reason I townread diamond it doesn't look like scum v scum to me and I feel like a lot of his emotions were genuine this point isn't as strong given a lot of it is anger and you can have anger and still be scum I also think people are trying to mislynch this slot given a few sr's I see are (Me Dimond Wicked) but I see no reasoning for such a team like this to exist it feels like trying to push someone because you're limited on your options

snip

Dunnstral-

Ah Dunn my friend who I think could be town I've been rethinking this read a lot but I don't feel ready to put him as town yet given I had his slot at lock scum I want to know why he sr's me and why he's so eager to talk to me I get we're friends but this sense of eagerness is kinda scary the people in his other slots didn't really do much justice but hey we'll talk and that may help me get a read on him the interesting part is dunn has a lot of tells and he's done

both

his town and scum tells so more to come.

She's talking to townreads here, and I don't feel like she has to sort Dunnstral. Dunnstral responded in kind asking for to talk with her personally about reads, and instead Maki made a readspost.

Maki says herself earlier on when she tells Dunnstral to get bent that she doesn't want to talk to scumreads:

Talking to you isn't going to help as much as it would talking to others.

If there was an evolution here, she didn't show it.

The point I am trying to make is the difference in how she treats Diamond and Dunnstral.

Evolution, revisited

I think I want to vote in klunk and Lycan today.

Dunnstral doesn't bother you at all? You seemed familiar with him. He's doing jack shit, popping in to be wishy-washy and leaving. He also voted wrong yesterday. Is that what you expect from him?

I'd vote Dunn today mostly because if I lynch elsewhere and I'm wrong and he is scum I 100% expect him to ditch right away where if he's town it'd be interesting to see where other scum ru-
You know what now that I say it it sounds even better
VOTE: Dunn

Doesn't read the thread

Lycanfire-

I really want to know more about where this guy stands on his reads I see a few walls but from mostly what I can tell is he agrees a lot with wisdom? (lol) He also had this magic "I can read Maki off one game" that makes me roll my eyes for now he's null I don't really see him pushing much or showing a lot of desire for a lynch I kinda just want him to pick something and try to push it or show interest

(pretty much all of this is false)

However it takes a superior mind to not read the thread and define the game as very very complicated:

My confidence in a bit shaken and I don't think I've been so wrong on a few reads that I felt good in a long time I didn't think scum would bus that much because to me that's fucking stupid but I shouldn't have been looking at my logic but what others would do. I want to vote klunk now that it doesn't matter and both wagons were scum and I feel like people would bus here and try to be a deep wolf considering it'd make a few town people look bad. I'm going to re read but Wisdoms play felt so dif then the other game I played with him.

Hm

What points to scum me killing Miu since you think it's dumb if anyone doesn't kill Wisdom.

You should take all my statements as town because if I am scum you can just ignore them when I flip.

Now I think scum are most likely people who hard bussed both slots even if bussing is stupid in this set up. I will come back with reads in a bit.
Anyone who votes before then is scum claiming.

This is how the game will be going today and you're going to deal with it
Pedit: Shut up

Conclusions: I feel like Diamond and Maki have been working in tandem today in trying to complicate the game state, take townies off the table, and insert the suggestion that a town lynch is not a bad idea. Meanwhile, Maki has been highly townreading Diamond all game, while showing no evolution of that read which she bases on meta. Furthermore I've felt since the Acid lynch that it was forced over Wicked: and yesterday we confirmed it.

Vote Count 1-16

Viomi

(7): Chara, Kaede Akamatsu, Shuichi Saihara,

Wickedestjr, Maki Harukawa

, kunkstar7, Miu Iruma

Wickedestjr

(4): Wisdom, Lycanfire, DiamondSentinel,

Viomi

Not Voting

(1): Dunnstral

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: November 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-11-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

A Lynch Has Been Achieved!

I talk sometimes about "push votes". I would call Shuichi's vote here the push vote. A push vote is one that accelerates the wagon. I would say, at that point Wicked saw the writing on the wall-assuming Chara isn't scum- and decided that Viomi wasn't going to make it out alive over Kunkstar. These two votes in a row made the wagon far too easy. Where else could Maki vote? Maki townread Wicked, and wanted Kunkstar. Meanwhile the Kunkstar wagon collapsed.
The moment that happened the lynch was decided. Scum picked the wagon that made it through.

[Lycanfire]

The game isn't hard. It's been made to appear more complicated than it is.

[Lycanfire]

idec, what you guys think of me anymore.
But this is a scumread I've had since D2.
His vote on Maki was what making my head spin before.

I don't know how you had any impression that I was voting anything besides Maki or Chara today.

[Lycanfire]

no, Kaede unvoted and Maki was at L-3 before she did.
VOTE: Maki Harukawa
second scum i've defended pointlessly? maybe. ugh.

Voting her and asking me a question to rationalize why a mafiaso is making a losing vote

[Lycanfire]

Wrong quote, but my answer is more entertaining this way

[Lycanfire]

Do I trust myself? Can I trust anyone else, living or otherwise? I know that no matter who is scum the dead thread is screeching at me like an army of crazed harpies.

All you have to do is lynch scum

What is with the constant self depreciation?

[Lycanfire]

Chara can you explain why you are super sure on Dunnstral.

Shuichi when you were considering Makidunnstral earlier did you consider their exchange theatre

And yes, the Maki Diamond exchange looks like theatre to me, but if Kaede doesn't vote with me today I want to vote with him within Maki|chara

The above should answer you well enough as well Chara. Plainly if you are town you are getting run around by a scumkaede. Town would have to be myself/kunkstar/shuichi/dunnstral/you.

People need to stop having shit reads, esp. Shuichi. Why would I bus Wicked with the express interest in getting Acid next and get angry when scum reverse the lynch order on me? There is a reason I dug in day 2: because the acid lynch did not make Wicked look in any way different, and 100% of my effort yesterday was placed in justifying the lynch in the context that Wicked was still scum.

Your town can't be yourself/kaede/maki/chara and 1 of myself/diamond/kunkstar. Your reads are massively off.

Our town is more likely: myself/you/kunkstar/dunnstral/ 1 of kaede or diamond.

How you get town glimmers out of everyone besides Diamond is bollocks and I explicitly only fit him in my theory with Maki. I'd sooner lynch Chara as an independent read.

[Lycanfire]

I don't see a universe where Chara isn't scum, so if we're not lynching Maki we are lynching this.

VOTE: Chara

If

Kaede (mulch) is scum, it's with Chara anyway.

[Lycanfire]

Chara where was your sr of kaede yesterday when I sat on my hands yelling kaedescum

Also why did you hammer Wicked? + how do you feel about kunkstar(poor man's dunnstral) atm?

[Lycanfire]

Your conclusions are why I made the next post. Pretending you are town is pointless.

Dunnstral is town because Maki doesn't talk to a scum Dunnstral the way she has.

[Lycanfire]

Chara can you explain why you are super sure on Dunnstral.

at this point he continues to be the only slot in the game where i can't come up with a single reason for him to be town.

When i said this about wicked i had no end of reasons to scumread him. There are three scum remaining and this is your case on the one that has to be lynched?

[Lycanfire]

if Maki is town and doesn't know Dunnstral's alignment, that shouldn't matter.

She shouldn't know Diamond's either, yet compare her posts to both.

[Lycanfire]

Kaede: how are you justifying the presumptive third concurrent scum wagon of day 1?

VOTE: Maki

[Lycanfire]

Wicked and the two scumfucks I've been voting all day wanted Kunkstar for the past two days. Mulch got replaced and Chara wanted Acidphoenix. You came along and sheeped mulch. Shuichi fingered Viomi as scum, then the remainder of the Kunkstar wagon collapsed on Acidphoenix.

Is Kunkstar scum there? I'm not saying as a result of the wagon movement he definitely cannot be scum, but the roots of his wagon started when he was talking down Acid at the same time as Kunkstar. Why Kunkstar, and not Acid as the plan later dictated? Concurrently with his Kunkstar vote, Maki made this post to Wicked, which he ignored, despite scumreading her from the early game:

I'm gonna drop this given we seem to just be in disagreement and we both got what we wanted out of this so hey win win.

The beginning of the Kunkstar wagon was not made under the pressure of Wisdom or myself. Wisdom called him town at one point. I didn't case him until later. The only person pressuring Wicked at this time was Diamond. (actually, his slapfight with diamond in the first few pages is what prompted me to case him. I thought sorting these two immediately was a high priority.) Therefore his vote on Kunkstar was not out of duress, but out of a personal desire to push a ML.

[Lycanfire]

Contemplating kicking Shuichi out of the town for shit reads. Kaede are you willing to lynch Chara?

[Lycanfire]

when he [Wicked] was talking down Acid at the same time as Kunkstar

[Lycanfire]

i find it hard to believe that you're either forgetting that wicked was scum or you're trying out for the mental gymnastics

[Lycanfire]

Contemplating kicking Shuichi out of the town for shit reads. Kaede are you willing to lynch Chara?

your read on me is the bad read. Shuichi's locktowns are correct. this post has no point other than to remind me this post exists in postgame.

-----------/\-----------
----------/--\----------
---------/----\---------
--------/------\--------
-------/--------\-------?

[Lycanfire]

i find it hard to believe that you're either forgetting that wicked was scum or you're trying out for the mental gymnastics

i have no idea what this means. i'm saying Maki dropping the conversation and Wicked electing not to continue based on that isn't damning evidence for them being teamed.

his next reference to maki he still defines her as scum, so he very much should have said something, but he didn't, because like i previously outlined in the Maki

B

case, saying anything wouldn't help the scumteam any. however, if maki were town, he had no reason not to press her, because she had a comparatively weak position, and wicked was all about promoting how experienced he was. that leads to a pretty clear progression, except he went for kunkstar in the defining moment.

was wicked early game distancing because despite it being 7:5, he had aspirations to go lategame? tell me, chara. he sure did enough distancing at that moment by having a super cool gambit that acid doubled down on, that were bad for ~~reasons~~ which then prompted him to shade the ever loving fuck out of acid. you seem like the person to ask.

[Lycanfire]

game solve mountain still eludes chara, due to having a red pm.

[Lycanfire]

it's proven fact that scum ate themselves day 1 to save wicked. the crawl to the viomi lynch was a spectacular performance that had wisdom and myself calling viomi town as she went down. the problem begins day 2, when, as it turns out, nothing changes for wicked, because lynching acid/viomi first doesn't harm the continuity of my reads if it flips scum. all it does is make me wonder why people refused a good wagon in favor of a shit one. so yes, scum chara votes acid there to save wicked.

what you should be asking me is why doesn't scum chara and scumpals promote town kunkstar over scum acid. can't you suggest a scenario where scum cut their losses that way and kills acid at night? or are you unwilling to ask that in place of your question because it was attempted and failed? surely that question would do more to prove to me that you weren't informed of acid or kunkstar's align, as uncomfortable and difficult to rationalize as it is.

i don't know what you want me to say in response to that beyond "yes this is what scum chara does". if you want to game solve, you should start by pulling some teeth.

[Lycanfire]

when we both flip town, Lycan learns that not everyone plays mafia like a game of social chess.

it doesn't matter so long as i treat it that way. my problem with mafia begins at getting people to agree with me, which became apparent to me in Normal 1890. if we're both town you're a victim of being unable to be on my side, which i find unlikely, because every day i've interacted with you the most only to have you take reads in opposition to my own. i illustrated this to you day 1 when you claimed you couldn't see where i was coming from. considering i'm the one putting in the effort here, maybe you have more of the blame.

[Lycanfire]

Viomi was a Wicked counterwagon Wisdom and Lycan both called town because it was a Wicked counterwagon.
calling kunkstar town because he was also a Wicked counterwagon isn't good enough.

wisdom called viomi town because it was a scum wagon. i called viomi town at l-1 because i was on during deadline and was either going to hammer or watch the hammer, but i wanted everyone to know how ridiculous lynching acid/viomi first was.

viomi wasn't called town because it was a counterwagon. viomi was called town because it was a scum counterwagon.

i feel like you're latching onto whatever you can from my catchup post re: kaede and using whatever you can to shade kunkstar in the process.

Lycan: yes. in a game where i can't make up my mind, scum were forced to bus hard, and i can see reasons for every other slot in the game to be town bar Dunnstral, Dunnstral is a fantastic vote. there's nothing to redeem that ISO like there is with Kaede. (and Maki, to a lesser extent). he doesn't even have the advantage of the otherwise-scummy kunkstar, who had the day 1 situation with Wicked.

what was this situation with wicked and how did this affect your reads on wicked and kunkstar day 1/2?

VOTE: Chara

[Lycanfire]

actually, Lycan, i'm going to go ahead and call Wicked's vote on kunkstar at that point irrelevant. it was page 9. there was no way he thought the wagon would go through to a lynch

Does anyone have any reason for kunkstar town that doesn't have to do with Wicked voting him Day 1?

"attributing motive to anything is pointless. btw kunkstar is definitely scum"

?????????????????????????????????????????????

the problem begins day 2, when, as it turns out, nothing changes for wicked, because lynching acid/viomi first doesn't harm the continuity of my reads if it flips scum. all it does is make me wonder why people refused a good wagon in favor of a shit one. so yes, scum chara votes acid there to save wicked.

why do we try to save acid/Viomi there at all if it doesn't change anything with Wicked? why do we flip Viomi, who was called town by yourself and Wisdom, instead of Wicked, who was now the liability?

because scum were shit and thought it would change something. justify how viomi isn't a scumwagon.

That does feel simplistic and easy but low charisma scum explains some of this game.

Really think we need to stop with the "3 scumwagons = impossible" logic.

i don't see you looking beyond the wagon movement of day 1, but those have hardly been the focus either. maybe you should do something with your reads.

[Lycanfire]

Chara isn't happening. If you're that convinced she's scum, hunt her buddies. You are lynching her today over my dead body.

when you say that i suppose you mean it quite literally. i now can't lynch chara if diamond doesn't come on board. which is why i switched votes.

i might take you up on the offer though!

VOTE: Maki

[Lycanfire]

because scum were shit and thought it would change something. justify how viomi isn't a scumwagon.

I believe the burden of proof lies with the asserter.

A Maki vote is something I can at least understand and consider.

if you believe the latter you agree viomi was run into the ground by scum. stop with this cloak and dagger shit.

[Lycanfire]

I am doing something. I don't see a team not having kunkstar on it. I'm trying to lynch him.

i just isoed you because i recall hearing absolutely nothing about kunkstar from you beyond that his post volume is shit. to no surprise you have no reason to scumread him, offer no content when voting him, and walk back and forth on town/scum kunkstar.

the most sure you get is this post

Here's where I'm at

Wick not sure? hated him scumhunting off his wagon. really disagree with some of his lines of attack on kunk.

acid crazy enough to be town? reaction tests are really shit though i'd have shouted him down if i was here and been scumread for it.

Wis idfk, i really really want to hear a solid damn reason for his endless DS defense. I know he's lynchbait but that doesn't mean this can't be the time he's scum.

diamond scum

lycan fucking insane. think his absurdly in depth reading into rqs could be scum trying to look too ridiculous to be scum

brian scum, who replaced this?

kunk scum for 154 hasn't improved since

chara is a little town for tonal reasons and needlessly defending her own semantics

kaede seems town, but i'm still bothered by her predecessor.

which is exactly the same reason wicked voted kunkstar to begin with, so i'm definitely not going to eliminate that voting as a reason for townkunk. if you aren't compromising on chara, i'll consider compromising with diamond on you.

[Lycanfire]

Viomi was run into the ground by me. If there were one or two scum on the wagon, that's fine.

they hopped on right after you, ripped apart the third wagon, which only was hammered because we reached deadline. denying it was bad doesn't actually do anything, because it has nothing to do with reality.

[Lycanfire]

I... err... Just suggested lynching you

I'm unhappy that I'm being tossed to compromising with a Maki lynch, which Diamond is hinting they are super seriously no bamboozle happy to go for. I do want to hear why you want Kunk, because your teams are still hilariously bad, mainly due to Chara deserving rope.

[Lycanfire]

Is Kunkstar scum with Maki?

[Lycanfire]

I feel like you should care about the potential of Maki+Kunk more than I do.

[Lycanfire]

You have callee her out for suspecting Kunk on day 1.

Later, she told you to vote Dunnstral over Kunk.

At the same time, Maki and Kunk sit on the Dunnstral wagon.

I'm asking you because I want to know how you are rationalizing it. You should have an opinion.

[Lycanfire]

frankly my conclusions from my previous post amount more to masturbation than anything else

[Lycanfire]

users online: kaede

users online: not kaede

okay

Spoiler:

[Lycanfire]

Abra cadaver

I am talking to Shuichi for a reason.

[Lycanfire]

Well I was hoping today would be a continuation of the tour de force that was going on yesterday, beyond that no. Count the sheep that hop over the fence and go to sleep.

[Lycanfire]

No it was a reference to Maki severely misunderstanding me. If I want to cadaver you I'd vote you first.

[Lycanfire]

Scumslip

[Lycanfire]

Huh? someone scumslipped?

Spoiler:

nevermind that, why did you wait until now to bring it up?

if you get a choice of who you lynch, you're implying they're all good choices, but that's simply untrue. you can only vote with wagon compositions you think are town.... unless you're actively pushing a mislynch.

At this point im just gonna YOLO
VOTE: Kunk
This day phase has been tiring. And I cant make up my mind, if this is right then woo, if it isnt then whatever.

how many towns are within diamond|chara|shuichi? if it's not three

Pretty much, im mostly hoping he flips scum so i can say goodbye to this game already.

you willingly made a shit vote

[Lycanfire]

considering you brought up 'scum can't kill town anymore' you're aware of the numbers atm. while we're on that post i have no idea why chara hated it, but your choice of wagons post jumped out at me as being similar, so i feel like you should have known better when i said scumslip.

[Lycanfire]

what was this situation with wicked and how did this affect your reads on wicked and kunkstar day 1/2?

i don't feel like finding it, but i'm sure it's somewhere in the middle of my ISO, super-sleuth. the situation with Wicked is kunkstar being a Wicked counterwagon, and on day 1 i thought Wicked was town and kunkstar scum.
1023. just start reading there if you want to see what i was thinking on day 2.

Lycan: yes. in a game where i can't make up my mind, scum were forced to bus hard, and i can see reasons for every other slot in the game to be town bar Dunnstral, Dunnstral is a fantastic vote. there's nothing to redeem that ISO like there is with Kaede. (and Maki, to a lesser extent). h

e doesn't even have the advantage of the otherwise-scummy kunkstar, who had the day 1 situation with Wicked.

so you're disregarding Dunnstral scum entirely based on Maki's behaviour? what if you're just wrong on her? why is Dunnstral town?
you'll have to walk me through why Diamond is relevant to Dunnstral here, because Maki has a very different relationship with those two players.

WHICH IS IT?

[Lycanfire]

Town-Chara
Null-Lycan, Dunn
Null!scum-You, Maki
Scum-Shuichi, Kunk

Given there are 3 scum, it's entirely possible.

I've interacted with known scum and by day 3 I'm null

These shit reads make it impossible to work with you

[Lycanfire]

At this point, my feeling toward this game is exhaustion.

answer the question

[Lycanfire]

actually, Lycan, i'm going to go ahead and call Wicked's vote on kunkstar at that point irrelevant. it was page 9. there was no way he thought the wagon would go through to a lynch

WHICH IS IT?

[Lycanfire]

maybe Maki and kunkstar are

both

scum, and i shouldn't be voting Dunnstral right now.

what i mean by the first sentence of 1834 is that assuming that scum always play optimally is like assuming

town

will. one has to account for bad decisions.

VOTE: kunkstar
Maki and Dunn aren't scum together, therefore if i lynch outside of them and outside of my lock-town pool (that's Diamond and kunkstar) it'll hit scum.
it fails if they're scum together. it fails if Lycan is a deep wolf. that's about it.

this is the evolution you hitched yourself with kaede

[Lycanfire]

(all 13 minutes of critical thought)

[Lycanfire]

At this point, my feeling toward this game is exhaustion.

answer the question

You mean about kunkstar and maki? I thought I did: sure, I don't see why not. I think he is scum with either maki or dunn.

LOOK AT THE DAY 1 WAGON AND TELL ME AGAIN IT WASN'T CHOSEN BY SCUM. TELL ME IT DOESN'T MATTER IF "ONE OR TWO" SCUM JOINED YOUR WAGON.

[Lycanfire]

THAT'S WHAT I MEANT BY MASTURBATION. THIS IS ME. TELLING YOU YOU AREN'T TRYING.

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: SHUICHI

[Lycanfire]

I can go back to Maki. Maki was at L-1 and Shuichi didn't hammer. We can't get his vote.

[Lycanfire]

If it's on scum it isn't going through because I'm not voting it.

[Lycanfire]

(actual evolution)

wow, this person is scum

(opinions from one's ass)

YUP this is town

[Lycanfire]

I can go back to Maki. Maki was at L-1 and Shuichi didn't hammer. We can't get his vote.

Was it? Huh.

It might be telling that it didn't go through from there I guess.

at some point when kaede voted while maki was self-voted

[Lycanfire]

I thought Lycan's freaking out over was scum defending their partner, but if you're correct that Lycan's town, then yes a scum kunk isnt getting lynched today.

if kunkstar is a town wagon scum!lycan would have ignited the conflict between you and chara days ago. see my scumgame in darkest dungeon.

[Lycanfire]

I literally laid the framework out for Shuichi and asked him if he was sure re: day 1 wagon. He denied continually, but I knew he wanted Kunkstar too. I pointed out to him he was going to say something dumb. That's not chess, that's basic math. Three scum at the tail end of the wagon with his theory, yet he wants to make it seem like the collapse of the D1 Kunkstar wagon was nothing to be worried about.

[Lycanfire]

Do it kid

[Lycanfire]

Maki has solved the game and the all-town wagon succeeds no reason for her not to vote here, right?

[Lycanfire]

You're no fun, Chara

[Lycanfire]

The moon bakes 37 hours a day.

[Lycanfire]

maki why not vote with game solved?

[Lycanfire]

i swear to god if you're just trying to bait me into answering for maki and not expecting an answer to that question you asked 3 days ago that i offhand answered in some other post i'm gonna be pissed

[Lycanfire]

Lycan, can you answer my question?

which one

[Lycanfire]

town kunkstar flips. Maki removes herself from the game. why would scum Maki be scared of that?

i see you're trying to conf kunkstar as scum here as a result. you can kaede can test your theory while she's here. chances are it's a mislynch, so don't be mad when i lynch you tomorrow.

[Lycanfire]

... I thought you're saying Maki didn't make the obvious hammer because they're both scum? 'The theory' being that if you L-1 with Kaede online, it's a forced unvote from Maki. That doesn't account for any spoiling of the data, which is why I'm saying it's just as possible to be a mislynch to me.

[Lycanfire]

I feel like Maki was being overly cautious and that they aren't partners. If she unvotes at L-1 I'll hammer, but I'm quite likely just lynching you tomorrow for it.

[Lycanfire]

here let me help
UNVOTE:
Put em at L-1 again see how fast I "don't" hammer

you said you solved the game and didn't hammer when bad lycan told you to

[Lycanfire]

if you know who's scum (myself, dunnstral, kunkstar) then you know who is town (the entire wagon of everyone else). you should have absolutely voted because that was, supposedly, the winning vote.

[Lycanfire]

I feel like Maki was being overly cautious and that they aren't partners. If she unvotes at L-1 I'll hammer, but I'm quite likely just lynching you tomorrow for it.

So there's gonna be a tomorrow huh?

because i'm saying i'm allowing the data to be spoiled and voting if you scumclaim. you'll be chosen as the night's kill due to scumclaim. then i lynch chara for having a shitty plan.

[Lycanfire]

in this scenario, any unvote at L-1 is 100% maki scumclaim. an unvote can be

1) an unvote from partner;
2) an unvote from town, because scum maki wants us to think it is case 1.

town maki should not invite this scenario, because in either i'm hammering to win the game or to confirm maki as scum.

[Lycanfire]

Maybe. There's likely no good sacrifice for Maki with town Kunkstar. I'm imagining yourself, Diamond, or Shuichi. Diamond sacrifice is losing. Chara|Shuichi is unclear, but the slots are not as bad. It's a playable position if Maki thinks she can milk the L-1 for towncred.

[Lycanfire]

So, how about that Maki lynch? VOTE: Maki

[Lycanfire]

Chara who is the third because I'm seeing some complications with scum kunkstar

[Lycanfire]

who do you expect me to vote right now, maki?

[Lycanfire]

i don't have time for walls when the mod makes my cases for me

[Lycanfire]

Chara who is the third because I'm seeing some complications with scum kunkstar

it's either Dunn, Diamond, or Shuichi. there are problems with all of them.
if kunkstar is scum and Maki is town, though, you're scum.
but i find that unlikely.

both diamond and shuichi have hard pressed kunkstar. diamond peaced out for the entire tour de force, came back and gave his blessings on kunkstar. shuichi has pressed forward in face of all logic. meanwhile, dunnstral and maki are crossvoting.

[Lycanfire]

so, basically you're saying dunnstral here.

[Lycanfire]

Zzzzzz

[Lycanfire]

And Maki gets away. Thanks Kaede.

[Lycanfire]

That is a mechanically awful sacrifice because fmpov I know there were two scum on wagon, but now I know it wasn't three.

Throwing someone like Shuichi or Chara would have been a bigger curveball. Maybe the intent is to save Maki, but I don't see how elimimating a suspect on the wagon does that. Considering off wagon Dunnstral looked comparatively better than the rest I will assume that was the intent, but the scumteam lost their brains along the way.

VOTE: Maki

[Lycanfire]

Nope

[Lycanfire]

It is okay my brain was your auto correct. And no, I don't see it. Scum are running the full gauntlet. They weren't winning yesterday. They were surviving. Making the lynch choice between two scum means shit to me.

[Lycanfire]

Because if you or Shuichi were sacrificed I likely would have theorized three scum. X-Diamond-Maki. Diamond never gets sacrificed in that team because I always lynch Maki thereafter. So yes, I see no reason why Maki is not sacrificed, but it's more likely than not in my eyes that I'm seeing that not through my own choice, so assuming her as town as a result is nonsense.

[Lycanfire]

(Chara amazing evolution of reads)

Plainly unfair that one person in chara-diamond-maki has to be town.

But at least I'm understanding the NK some more

[Lycanfire]

Just lynch Maki. Shuichi was the one VIing. Diamond is a VI or scum. Chara is still working against my lynches but can't be lynched due to wolfing town.

[Lycanfire]

I thought you said Shuichi's pred obvtowned. Where's that evolution, Chara?

Please also explain how I behave the way I do day 1 with Mulch and Michael while having Michael-Acid-Wicked as partners. Shouldn't any conclusion you come to attempt to reconcile that? It is like rather than perform gymnastics you cut right to the part where you head smash into a bar. There is no continuity or reasoning here

VOTE: Chara

[Lycanfire]

I thought you said Shuichi's pred obvtowned. Where's that evolution, Chara?

Please also explain how I behave the way I do day 1 with Mulch and Michael while having Michael-Acid-Wicked as partners. Shouldn't any conclusion you come to attempt to reconcile that? It is like rather than perform gymnastics you cut right to the part where you head smash into a bar. There is no continuity or reasoning here

VOTE: Chara

why does my saying Shuichi's predecessor obvtowned only crop up now, and not during any of the discussion on day 3?

Please tell me why you thought UCV was town, because you offered little substance compared to my read on the pred. Baa

[Lycanfire]

I'm keeping my vote on Lycan I think only 1 scum was on that end of day wagon so that makes Lycan scum in all cases who was wanting me to hammer Klunk and was defending Dunn

I suggest you all join me here

that he was using his scumread of you to completely ignore the possibility of scum Dunnstral only to immediately go back to voting you after Dunnstral flips scum is the sort of obviously terribly progression that is almost easy to miss because of it's blatancy.

not voting yet. in this situation it's possible for scum in a weaker position to grab the point and sacrifice themself, so i'd rather not vote until i'm sure.

Diamond/Shuichi was a team i was considering, but i'm not doing so anymore with Shuichi choosing to open with a Diamond vote when he knows i'm scumreading Diamond.
i'd apologize for my absence, but we've all been rather absent. :>

Woah shit it is almost like the NK was chosen to hurt my credibility! Too bad that Maki said all my reasoning on the matter was wrong.

[Lycanfire]

Lycan talked on me talking to dimond and dunn dif and when I brought up valid points dunn and him both just plugged there ears

You can tell by my votes that I'm not considering you and Diamond anymore, but rather than everything I had said still being valid, this is absolutely not a wolf post, instead it is clear that the blood vessel that had burst in your brain has stopped any critical thinking.

[Lycanfire]

diamond is a shit compromise lynch

[Lycanfire]

Rather than be so afraid of losing can the town actually town up, stop allowing my opinions to be shaded, and let me carry them over the finish line? Thank you.

There is no compromise here. If there are scum there are town. If you force the town together, you win. If you don't, you mislynch. Nothing is gained if you don't try the winning combo.

There is no risk of losing, unless you blink.

[Lycanfire]

I flipped my read on Diamond not Shuichi. Just because I voted Shuichi over parking Maki all day doesn't mean I saw all teams as having Shuichi. Voting Diamond yesterday over Maki was pointless.

They were Maki/Diamond/Shuichi and Maki/Diamond/Chara. I alluded to this in a post where I said Chara or Shuichi is the third scum. With Dunnstral as scum I have to eliminate one, and that is Diamond because my conclusions from Maki associations no longer made sense (they marked a clear difference in how she treated the two slots).

Meanwhile I don't see Shuichi as likely over Chara. Chara has never bothered to solve the game, and I pointed that out day 1 when I asked Chara to describe the game. They made it completely about people being against Wicked's gambit rather than how I suggested he was doing something beyond that (so was Acid, so was my myself) but he was doing it incorrectly, so failing to see the theme was willful ignorance. I'm more likely to believe the two scum were Maki Chara, with consideration that Shuichi has/had little regard for Maki's slot. It is a simple conclusion.

[Lycanfire]

I'm not compromising. I'm voting the person I think is most likely to be scum.

You want Maki and Diamond. Why Diamond over Maki?

and where will you lead the town next when i flip town, Lycan?

UCV's obvtowness was apparent, the fact that you explained more doesn't make it townier than my own opinion on him despite you pretending otherwise.
is your proposed team myself and Kaede, then?

Dodge.jpg

As for your question maybe I should reread days 1 and 2

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: Lycan

Almost as shitty as Chara voting Kunkstar with Wicked on page 3

[Lycanfire]

What is your winning combo Shuichi because I feel like you've taken a detour without phoning it in.

[Lycanfire]

Shuichi not voting Lycan is pinging my radar HARD

What is your expected behavior here?

[Lycanfire]

Take a look at Chara shading me from start of day. This NK gave no shits about my unique perspective from being off wagon. Scum went into the day with no consideration of working with me, a clear break from Chara trying to get me on the Kunl lynch day3. There is no real progression to Chara accusing me here, beyond being the best mislynch in the game.

So, whichever is the VI calling for my head here ought to consider why I flipped out on Kaede yesterday. It was because scum were already on the wagon at L-1. Analyze this.

[Lycanfire]

Shuichi not voting Lycan is pinging my radar HARD

What is your expected behavior here?

More specifically I'm not lynching Diamond, but I was interested in seeing of Maki could dig for gold and have a real response to what Shuichi was suggesting rather than gross me out.

[Lycanfire]

for someone on about group dynamics, Lycan's posting being continually tone-deaf is what makes the thought of him being scum so

odd

to me. he has no friends here and isn't making any by asserting the same tired, disproven positions.

Lycan actually makes a good point that Diamond isn't scum with Maki, and in fact Lycan's choice not to vote park Maki all day is more effective than rhino horns at curing impotence.
The idea you suggest that Lycan has no friends is also flawed. Lycan has the best friends.

[Lycanfire]

Kaede tears don't lynch scum. How about you read the thread.

[Lycanfire]

You should stay off me regardless and let Shuichi Chara hammer. Chara has twice over second guessed my align (ignoring I went from very town to very not over the course of 1 day period) today. Reads as forced uncertainty. Get Chara to eat Maki's boogers, while having Shuichi suffer for making that "i bet both wagons are le scum ecks dee" shitpost (because nothing else is more likely looking at day 3-4 in isolation much less 1-4.)

[Lycanfire]

Nows about the time to ask me conftown questions, neirdos

[Lycanfire]

so anyway that could be a scumslip

Apparently both scum are leading wagons and scum are absolutely not on both of the leading wagons

Maki boogers = town. Dig for gold!

[Lycanfire]

Because she's not my top scumread right now. She's null!scum. Lycan is my top lynch, and I would vastly prefer that lynch to happen.

I'm town and people aren't making feely reads or non descript ones or waffling and moaning about how the easy game is difficult tomorrow. I'm going to establish right now that my role in this game is more important than Christ. If I die for this shit you're all repenting.

That said if you want to talk about how scummy Kaede's ass is, please share with the class. I have nothing better to do.

[Lycanfire]

Despite giving every reason to be believed nobody finds it strange that I've fought uphill all game, almost like there has been a group holding me back. Maybe that person I never stopped prodding is in on this shit.

Shuichi. if you don't believe Lycan is scum, please interact with his posting on me. i'm so tired of refuting it.

It's hard to address his posts when I often feel like they come from an alternate reality.

Fuckin stolen from one of my own posts ITT. Steal the posts where I vote instead.

[Lycanfire]

Shuichi's swimming combo: kaede, maki, shuichi, chara

Rhymes with town




Drown

[Lycanfire]

We're using Shuichi's swimming combo. Learn to read.

Rather than be so afraid of losing can the town actually town up, stop allowing my opinions to be shaded, and let me carry them over the finish line? Thank you.

There is no compromise here. If there are scum there are town. If you force the town together, you win. If you don't, you mislynch. Nothing is gained if you don't try the winning combo.

There is no risk of losing, unless you blink.

[Lycanfire]

why's Kaede scum, Lycan?

Look at how the post is formatted

I

1) first establish posts like that are not allowed tomorrow
2) (im town and uninterested in humoring myself as scum with diamond;)
3) ask him to explain his read today rather than tomorrow.

This is the second time today you have tried to get me to call Kaede scum today unprompted. Prep for when you sacrifice tonight?

[Lycanfire]

Am i supposed to be townreading any of what Lycan just said?
Coz i am not.

At what point have I become such a strong SR for you that you would insult me like this by acting like there is no scenario that I'm town and legitimately asking to be engaged as town before I'm hammered?

I don't see the post where you reasoned your vote, your progression, or why you would make a post like this.

Name the scumteam before EoD.

[Lycanfire]

GTH Chara+Maki. The less sure I am the faster hammer will come.

I was the chosen lynch night 3. None of my opinions were going to matter all day. Reread day 4 from start and see the wayward assumption that I am scum.

If scum were to care about my opinions, Dunnstral would have never been the NK. I would have went hard on triple wagon scum, not too unlike yesterday, but with more furor. Dunnstral wouldn't be on my radar.

Why would scum do that? Because Maki needs a resolution to the conflict, and scum need me gone to win. I am the best lynch here due to the info I have today. This doesn't matter tomorrow when I am not here- that is why the town has to reread SoD4 to understand the plan.

The elimination if Dunnstral makes Diamond town for two reasons;
1) Maki briefly tred Dunnstral and around the same time, interacted with Diamond and Dunnstral diffferently
2) Two wagon scum/ not pushing me in the direction of a three scum theory makes Diamond look townier.

Understand the situation. No shitty feel reads. Swim combo sinks today.

[Lycanfire]

Kaede Akamatsu

[Lycanfire]

Come back!

[Lycanfire]

Prodge until i get home

[Lycanfire]

I had food poisoning last night and ended up bedridden all day. Sorry.

Am i supposed to be townreading any of what Lycan just said?
Coz i am not.

At what point have I become such a strong SR for you that you would insult me like this by acting like there is no scenario that I'm town and legitimately asking to be engaged as town before I'm hammered?

I don't see the post where you reasoned your vote, your progression, or why you would make a post like this.

Name the scumteam before EoD.

I initially sheeped Maki then, didnt like your reaction when comparing me to Chara sheeping Wicked, since you SR Chara i thought of it as if you wanted to push a SR on me under the mat, and felt like OMGUS, but your latest post seem to imply this isnt the case, so it's not as strong anymore.

Also EXCUSE ME! but i have a life, sometimes im studying and reading every now and then, but not necessarily have the time to post.

and other times im just playing FGO

I told you to read the thread to get on my page. Plainly there is no reason to townread Chara beyond its insistance the Acid/Viomi lynch was organic and not a scum plot. I threw you an example I wanted you to react to.

[Lycanfire]

There isn't much point in doing a play by play when I've read Shuichi's wall twice over but having seen the later unvote I don't understand why Kaede used past tense in the above post over maintain her feelings, or to reinforce misgivings. Not answering my scumteam question is indicative she may have no working theory. All of this combined points that Kaede's vote was poorly placed at the time. I want original thoughts from Kaede and not just responses to Shuichi.

[Lycanfire]

sorry, ffery.
Lycan: so it's still me and Maki? when you answered about unvoting Maki and changing your vote to me it gave me the impression you were no longer scumreading her. evidently not the case.

I literally called her scum a few posts previous to voting you and later said I voted you over push Maki because vote parking Maki wasn't going to be productive with all my posts ignored. Your feelings on the matter aren't grounded in reality.

[Lycanfire]

ME AND CHARA WHEW

I can't argue with this reasoning if you insist so strongly

Let's try and prod this game along with some activity from everyone.

VOTE: Lycanfire

This is L-1.

What about the swimming combo did you not like?

[Lycanfire]

[quote=Shuichi]Am I reading this right as a suggestion Mulch and Michael are both scum? Also, I'm quoting this because I want someone to try and convince me Mulch/Michael/acid were all scum. To my mind, any shade at Kaede has to pass through this point first.[/quote]

Not at this point in the game it wasn't.

[quote=Shuichi]Where are you at on this now?[/quote]

I never made up my mind on whether Brian/Michael/Dunnstral were scum at that point. It was more an idea on rationalizing Kaede as town.

With respect to Chara's paranoia on the matter, if Maki isn't scum Kaede is. I floated that at start of day 2 and earned silence for my effort. Maybe it bore fruit with the day 3 slapfight-I glanced over it and wasn't interested i what Chara was saying until Kaede practically screamed murder in the thread over it. Seemed like an attempt to get peoples attention tbh. The sacrifice here will be interesting.

[Lycanfire]

I am town and can hammer Lycan atm

[Lycanfire]

Not unfair, but maybe frustrated with wrong-reasons-right-conclusion?

you agree with me, though. if i'd be frustrated as scum i'd be frustrated as town. this shouldn't be part of your case. ask yourself if you'd be frustrated with Lycan's moonlogic this game if it were directed at you.

You were frustrated when Wicked was combatted with it.

My logic is otherworldly when it hits scum huh?

[@Kunkstar] Are you scum reading any of the people that

are

contributing?

---

rather than get town!Kunk in the game you disparage him

You talk down Kunk in the the previous post- 177! What a drag on the game state.

after you chastise Kunk

I feel like you're resorting to a lot of misleading/exaggerative word choice over that post specifically. My question was not chastising kunkstar or talking down to him.

It was just a question.

You are severely misreading/misrepping the intention behind that. I've explained why kunkstar's list makes me suspect him.

It seriously bothers me that you're trying to paint me as a bully in this scenario.

i said this earlier, but i really do agree. it was nothing but a question. you're reading into a fantasy of aggressive play, Lycan.

i'm held back by the possibility that Wicked is scum who is unlucky, but this certainty he's scum when all he's really done that is scummy is overdefend his own votes is making me think the wagon is just on town.
and lycan's word choice is manipulative. that or it has a habit of reading far too much into innocuous things. the response towards me was largely to call me scum because i don't subscribe to its own theories of optimal play for this setup.

Anyone up for lynching Lycan? I would honestly prefer that to the kunkstar lynch. His push for me feels seriously off. I don't think he's even reading my posts entirely because he's asking questions about specific comments that would be answered if he just

finished reading the sentence

.

i'm still townleaning lycan. i think its response to my read on it being town is also more likely to come from town.
i unfortunately am unsure how to engage with it because its universe appears to be so far from my own. i'll give it another look in the morning with fresh eyes.

I flat-out said why: because he had nothing better to do! He was sitting on a scumread on Diamond, and openly said he would not move votes. Wicked took a detour in putting down Kunkstar, which he later stated to UCV as being his primary inspiration to vote him [kunk]. In the immediate post after putting down Kunkstar, he puts down acidphoenix, for reasons I stated were not bad reasons IF you were to ignore that Wicked briefly had the same thoughts previously- see his early 'gambit'!

you've ignored my main problem. at this point i'm beating a dead horse, so i won't repeat that Wicked hasn't been putting down anybody.
i don't see what Wicked's 'gambit' (yes i'm using quotations too, i maintain that it was a play, not a gambit.) has to do with the Wicked's opinion on acid's idea. they have nothing to do with each other.

i'm not even sure what you're saying here, honestly. there's a lot of noise. i asked why it was a player's responsibility to be nice when asking questions. you've given me this.
your thought process is hard to follow, and do you really not understand why i'm not following you on a group dynamics theory i know nothing about and don't understand how to put in practice the way you seem to?

[Lycanfire]

Just hammer me scumfuck. All teams have Chara anyway. See you in the dead thread for round 2.