Newbie 1827: Baseball Game Over

[Apple Jack]

The self defense has transitioned to flailing, how nice

[Thor665]

I didn’t clear him but usually the easiest solution is the right one this is the easiest and most obvious one.

I'll just be over here pointing out how shallow the water is while you style and profile about your deep thoughts.

why do you clear him?

your turn.

how do you clear him?

Not sure who you're asking about as the only person I've called town so far is you.
Do you need me to argue why you're town?
It won't actually be easy, but I can do it.
I could even color code it for you so it looks real

that's not true at all that I didn't agree with it. My position on this has remained the same. I didn't think it was a slip, but I did think it was Scummy.

@Quick - Wilky's points here appear to back up his case and not your claim that he's lying.
I could see you saying you disagree with him - but where do you get off claiming it's not true?

if I unvote thor I am voting you.

as I said lack of a cc can be explained.

It can only be explained if the other PRs are being played by utter idiots who don't understand how the game works.
A Tracker would need to CC.
A Jailkeeper would make his role more powerful by CCing.
A Cop could reveal an investigate, get a scum lynched, and have a 50% chance of being unkillable (albeit blocked)

So, yeah, if you're arguing the other players here are stupid then you're right./
Otherwise it's not the other players being daft, now is it...?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15242
In the thing you linked, the OP mocked the colors, and Vi came in second and tongue in cheek defended the..
Whatever, you wouldn't know VCA if it bit you on your bum.
I'd tell you to go back to the Newbie queue with this logic, but...how about you random clear people and then claim Wilky can only be scum with me some more

What are your current reads, caught up or not?

wikly, quick, cs can all die
taiho is so-so, leaning town. I like him but he has parked his vote on cs who has been practically offline the whole game and has done nothing else

So the assorted lynch du-jour and the flake out slot?
That said, with basic VCA (oh dear gawd, I did it without colors again, I am a demon!) your stance makes sense.

What do you like about Taiho?

Also, looks like only one of Cs and Quick can be scum.
I'd like to see how Quick fields this question about Wilky lying - after that I'm probably willing to help you lynch one of those two slots unless you can make a cogent argument for why Wilky is more likely.
The fact that Derp likes the wagon makes me want to avoid it on general sanity principle.

Unvote: gameplay

[Thor665]

I didn’t clear him but usually the easiest solution is the right one this is the easiest and most obvious one.

I'll just be over here pointing out how shallow the water is while you style and profile about your deep thoughts.

why do you clear him?

your turn.

how do you clear him?

Not sure who you're asking about as the only person I've called town so far is you.
Do you need me to argue why you're town?
It won't actually be easy, but I can do it.
I could even color code it for you so it looks real

that's not true at all that I didn't agree with it. My position on this has remained the same. I didn't think it was a slip, but I did think it was Scummy.

@Quick - Wilky's points here appear to back up his case and not your claim that he's lying.
I could see you saying you disagree with him - but where do you get off claiming it's not true?

if I unvote thor I am voting you.

as I said lack of a cc can be explained.

It can only be explained if the other PRs are being played by utter idiots who don't understand how the game works.
A Tracker would need to CC.
A Jailkeeper would make his role more powerful by CCing.
A Cop could reveal an investigate, get a scum lynched, and have a 50% chance of being unkillable (albeit blocked)

So, yeah, if you're arguing the other players here are stupid then you're right./
Otherwise it's not the other players being daft, now is it...?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15242
In the thing you linked, the OP mocked the colors, and Vi came in second and tongue in cheek defended the..
Whatever, you wouldn't know VCA if it bit you on your bum.
I'd tell you to go back to the Newbie queue with this logic, but...how about you random clear people and then claim Wilky can only be scum with me some more

What are your current reads, caught up or not?

wikly, quick, cs can all die
taiho is so-so, leaning town. I like him but he has parked his vote on cs who has been practically offline the whole game and has done nothing else

So the assorted lynch du-jour and the flake out slot?
That said, with basic VCA (oh dear gawd, I did it without colors again, I am a demon!) your stance makes sense.

What do you like about Taiho?

Also, looks like only one of Cs and Quick can be scum.
I'd like to see how Quick fields this question about Wilky lying - after that I'm probably willing to help you lynch one of those two slots unless you can make a cogent argument for why Wilky is more likely.
The fact that Derp likes the wagon makes me want to avoid it on general sanity principle.

Unvote: gameplay

[Apple Jack]

Not sure who you're asking about as the only person I've called town so far is you.

No no. You don’t get off that easy.

VOTE: thor

I never said I cleared him yet you asked me like I had somehow.

So by that logic. Since he’s not in your scum pile you must have cleared him.

Answer the question.

[Thor665]

Not sure who you're asking about as the only person I've called town so far is you.

No no. You don’t get off that easy.

VOTE: thor

I never said I cleared him yet you asked me like I had somehow.

Don't be an idiot - I asked why you cleared him as a Wilky partner - something you *had* claimed.
Get out of here with your utter derp, Derp.

[Apple Jack]

Don't be an idiot - I asked why you cleared him as a Wilky partner - something you *had* claimed.
Get out of here with your utter derp, Derp.

No you are the idiot cause I already explained how I went with the most obvious partner situation and explained how I got there.

I’m sure you are familiar with Occam’s razor? Using that. Tsq/wilky slam dunk scum team.

I explained that. Asking me how I cleared anyone else when you already know the answer is stupid.

So you think wilky/quick is scum. That’s what you have been pushing

HOW DID YOU ELIMINATE CS AS A PARTNER TO WILKY.

Until you answer that AND do a proper VC AND quote all the scummy posts wilky made day 1 like I’ve been asking you.

I’m not changing. I’m also not going to answer another one of your questions. You keep denying town information.

1. As an Ic that’s just terrible example
2. If you are town you are hurting town
3. If you are scum, it’s intentional and I’m not letting you off the hook.

Answer me or stop interacting with me. I’m never voting with you or for anyone you want cause imo you are scum who’s predecessor fake claimed tracker.

[Quick]

that's not true at all that I didn't agree with it. My position on this has remained the same. I didn't think it was a slip, but I did think it was Scummy.

@Quick - Wilky's points here appear to back up his case and not your claim that he's lying.
I could see you saying you disagree with him - but where do you get off claiming it's not true?

Here:

I don't like Shea bringing up "slips" in a newbie game. Reason for this is that I have seen an awful lot of people say someone slipped when they actually did not slip. If its an actual slip, that person gets lynched because everyone sees it was a Slip and so there is no use even discussing it. That is not what is going on with UCV. Granted, I can see Shea's perspective here and it does look pretty Scummy, but its not a lock.

[mhsmith0]

northsidegal replaces CSBlastoise effective immediately.

[mhsmith0]

vc

Votecount 2.07

Quick (1)

wilky ,

wilky (1)

gameplay506 ,

northsidegal (1)

taiho ,

gameplay506 (1)

Quick ,

Thor665 (1)

Derpy Hooves ,

Not Voting (2)

northsidegal , Thor665 ,

Day two deadline is Saturday November 4, 7 PM PST. (expired on 2017-11-04 19:00:00)

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

[/size]

[wilky]

that's not true at all that I didn't agree with it. My position on this has remained the same. I didn't think it was a slip, but I did think it was Scummy.

@Quick - Wilky's points here appear to back up his case and not your claim that he's lying.
I could see you saying you disagree with him - but where do you get off claiming it's not true?

Here:

I don't like Shea bringing up "slips" in a newbie game. Reason for this is that I have seen an awful lot of people say someone slipped when they actually did not slip. If its an actual slip, that person gets lynched because everyone sees it was a Slip and so there is no use even discussing it. That is not what is going on with UCV. Granted, I can see Shea's perspective here and it does look pretty Scummy, but its not a lock.

You still voted saying that part of your reason for voting was what shea said as I said in my initial case you went back and forward on it a few times, then joined the wagon, then voted shea/thor after it because of the wagon.

[northsidegal]

hey all! i was already following allong with the game so i'm more or less up to speed, but i might do a little bit of rereading just as a refresher.

so, who's up for a gameplay lynch?

[wilky]

hey all! i was already following allong with the game so i'm more or less up to speed, but i might do a little bit of rereading just as a refresher.

so, who's up for a gameplay lynch?

Why a gameplay lynch then?

[northsidegal]

hey all! i was already following allong with the game so i'm more or less up to speed, but i might do a little bit of rereading just as a refresher.

so, who's up for a gameplay lynch?

Why a gameplay lynch then?

process of elimination combined with gameplay's lack of scumhunting effort. i would make a really huge post, but my thoughts are best described by 239. basically, gameplay is attempting to just coast though, making the most minimal / obvious scumhunting efforts: pressuring lurkers (494) , asking why people haven't voted (379), stating the obvious (445, 495, 533), etc.
VOTE: gameplay

[northsidegal]

Quick (1)

wilky ,

wilky (1)

gameplay506 ,

northsidegal (1)

taiho ,

gameplay506 (1)

Quick ,

Thor665 (1)

Derpy Hooves ,

Not Voting (2)

northsidegal , Thor665 ,

Day two deadline is Saturday November 4, 7 PM PST. (expired on 2017-11-04 19:00:00)

uh, guys - can we talk about this? that's a lot more "one"s than is probably a good idea for being so close to deadline.

[wilky]

hey all! i was already following allong with the game so i'm more or less up to speed, but i might do a little bit of rereading just as a refresher.

so, who's up for a gameplay lynch?

Why a gameplay lynch then?

process of elimination combined with gameplay's lack of scumhunting effort. i would make a really huge post, but my thoughts are best described by 239. basically, gameplay is attempting to just coast though, making the most minimal / obvious scumhunting efforts: pressuring lurkers (494) , asking why people haven't voted (379), stating the obvious (445, 495, 533), etc.
VOTE: gameplay

See whilst I agree with what you have said here gameplay is the first real person to throw shade at your slot and your first post on the thread was to push a gameplay lynch.

[Apple Jack]

Ok pointing to any post made by tsq isn’t going to work. The rest of that stuff isn’t really AI

Also explain that process of elimination for me. Show your work.

[Quick]

that's not true at all that I didn't agree with it. My position on this has remained the same. I didn't think it was a slip, but I did think it was Scummy.

@Quick - Wilky's points here appear to back up his case and not your claim that he's lying.
I could see you saying you disagree with him - but where do you get off claiming it's not true?

Here:

I don't like Shea bringing up "slips" in a newbie game. Reason for this is that I have seen an awful lot of people say someone slipped when they actually did not slip. If its an actual slip, that person gets lynched because everyone sees it was a Slip and so there is no use even discussing it. That is not what is going on with UCV. Granted, I can see Shea's perspective here and it does look pretty Scummy, but its not a lock.

You still voted saying that part of your reason for voting was what shea said as I said in my initial case you went back and forward on it a few times, then joined the wagon, then voted shea/thor after it because of the wagon.

I never went back and forward on it. You will not finding me saying that I thought it was a slip.

[Quick]

Also explain that process of elimination for me. Show your work.

This.

[Apple Jack]

Also explain that process of elimination for me. Show your work.

This.

You want it from him but don’t support me when I ask Thor. Why?

[Quick]

Also explain that process of elimination for me. Show your work.

This.

You want it from him but don’t support me when I ask Thor. Why?

Thor has been playing very logically. I haven't see him really make a mistake yet. And I say that as someone who HAS in fact caught thor doing some shady business as an IC before.

[northsidegal]

i lost this post while typing it the first time so apologies if my wording is less than up to my usual standard!

See whilst I agree with what you have said here gameplay is the first real person to throw shade at your slot and your first post on the thread was to push a gameplay lynch.

i'm not really afraid of gameplay pushing me - i don't really trust on his ability to organize a lynch on my slot anyways (no offense!). besides, if i was reading the thread correctly, wasn't it

you

who gameplay had as the primary lynch for today?

Ok pointing to any post made by tsq isn’t going to work. The rest of that stuff isn’t really AI

just because you scumread tsq doesn't mean you have to disregard all of his reasoning, especially on a point that's entirely unrelated to your conversation with him. just pretend i copy/pasted everything he said in 239 as my own - what's your response?

Also explain that process of elimination for me. Show your work.

alright, here goes:

you're town. i believed that when you said you were going to hold off on voting until day two, i believed it when you kept pushing the claimed tracker today and i believe it now. on the surface level there's the argument that scum wouldn't draw so much attention to themselves, and drawing attention to yourself is certainly what you've been doing - one could make the argument that it's been so much attention that it's a deliberate scum attempt to play off of this point, but i don't put a lot of weight into that. besides, there's more than just that - i think there's a genuine town thought process visible in some of your posts. if i read the thread correctly, you were the only that seemed to consider the possibility that tsq was fakeclaiming, and i think 659 shows a careful consideration that i don't think comes from scum here, even if it does come from you tunneling thor.

thor's claimed - that situation will resolve itself just by waiting, so there's no point in pushing there, at least today. if thor is scum fakeclaiming then either flips or a counterclaim will confirm that. if thor is telling the truth then time will tell that. ignoring reads completely, either way i see little reason to lynch there today.

i'm town.

that leaves four people: wilky, gameplay, quick and taiho. taiho i'm currently null on, and for wilky and quick i'd like to do a deeper rereading of the thread to solidify my reads. that leaves gameplay as the lynch that makes the most sense.



wow, that was really annoying typing that all out a second time, and everything came out reading worse than it did before. oh well.

[Quick]

Also explain that process of elimination for me. Show your work.

alright, here goes:

you're town. i believed that when you said you were going to hold off on voting until day two, i believed it when you kept pushing the claimed tracker today and i believe it now. on the surface level there's the argument that scum wouldn't draw so much attention to themselves, and drawing attention to yourself is certainly what you've been doing - one could make the argument that it's been so much attention that it's a deliberate scum attempt to play off of this point, but i don't put a lot of weight into that. besides, there's more than just that - i think there's a genuine town thought process visible in some of your posts. if i read the thread correctly, you were the only that seemed to consider the possibility that tsq was fakeclaiming, and i think 659 shows a careful consideration that i don't think comes from scum here, even if it does come from you tunneling thor.

thor's claimed - that situation will resolve itself just by waiting, so there's no point in pushing there, at least today. if thor is scum fakeclaiming then either flips or a counterclaim will confirm that. if thor is telling the truth then time will tell that. ignoring reads completely, either way i see little reason to lynch there today.

i'm town.

that leaves four people: wilky, gameplay, quick and taiho. taiho i'm currently null on, and for wilky and quick i'd like to do a deeper rereading of the thread to solidify my reads. that leaves gameplay as the lynch that makes the most sense.



wow, that was really annoying typing that all out a second time, and everything came out reading worse than it did before. oh well.

What do you think of what I said about Derp possibly hiding in plain sight?

[northsidegal]

What do you think of what I said about Derp possibly hiding in plain sight?

like i said, i don't give a lot of weight to the idea that it's a deliberate attempt at reverse-psychology. like, from the very start of the game making it clear that you're not going to vote for day one defies standard practices of self-preservation. it'd be a huge gambit to make as scum and it'd be an even bigger gambit to continue today with pushing the claimed tracker. if at any point it didn't work out for a scum derpy then that would be a scum lynch day one, and when looking at day two, especially after someone claimed tracker you would think that scum would become even more actively invested in not losing anyone, given that the tracker becomes a de facto cop after a single scum lynch. with all that in mind i don't think it makes sense.

[Apple Jack]

just because you scumread tsq doesn't mean you have to disregard all of his reasoning

Yes I can. Especially considering how bad is scum slip shit was.

But I’ll humor you and read that post.

[Apple Jack]

Most notably, he's skating. This might be a difference in philosophy about mafia, but most of what I look for in the early game is who is playing the game and who is attempting to hide in randomness.

Problem with this is site meta has shifted dramatically in the past few years. Town I general has stopped playing the game. I have my own theories behind that. Town is dumbing down their town games so they can play better as scum. It’s difficult to play a clean scum game. Fake scum hunting is hard. If you establish a meta of being useless town and abusing the v/la process, you can look better when scum.

His post 19, where I originally voted him, was a chance to pressure derpyhooves which he didn't take.

I don’t even understand this. It’s bad logic. I’ve learned people don’t always do what you want them to. In fact people almost never do what I expect them to.

I just have found no reason to revise this early read. Almost all of the things that game play posts have been very minimal in terms of progressing the game. He's cast shallow aspersions on some of the arguments of other players. He hasn't really put pressure anywhere, and his arguments haven't seemed designed to find scum. I'm pretty happy leaving my vote parked here.

This is pretty bad also. Vote parking somebody for lurking is just a policy lynch. Sadly lurking isn’t AI. It used to but hasn’t been for at least 5 years.

Like I’m completely fine pressuring lurkers. But to use that as AI is unfortunately not reliable anymore.