Mini Normal 1957: The Perfect LUV Game [Endgame]

[Wossi]

what is this table?

[Wossi]

Derpy Hooves why would putting a vote on Xiao Long right now "ruin the game?" It's random vote stage, people say all kinds of meaningless stuff and put votes for even less meaning. But here you've taken actual issue with his post, provided reasoning, and no vote? I don't understand what damage you're trying to prevent.

Making a declaration that you're going to play day one in your own way doesn't absolve from town duties.

[Wossi]

Putting up a disclaimer like Derpy did doesn't do anything to advance the town, and makes it more difficult to gather tells. Does making a first-post disclaimer like that null all future texts? It shouldn't...

don't see how that's not scum hunting, prodding for clarity on actions that are unusual or untownlike

[Wossi]

and to not be a hypocrite, because day one votes are important.

VOTE: Derpy Hooves

[Wossi]

so what, Flavor Leaf, do you only vote once someone gets to zero?

also saying i'm stupid town or stupid mafia just nullifies any input I have, which ultimately isn't good.

also saying porkens is just being porkens does the same for him.

[Wossi]

also saying i'm stupid town or stupid mafia just nullifies any input I have, which ultimately isn't good.

You haven’t had any good input yet though

We're on page three. Quote for some posts that have resonated with you as good input.

[Wossi]

Derpy, I'm talking about future input, I thought that was pretty clear.

Xiao Long, are you relieved that Tchill gave you permission to vote me?

[Wossi]

Mumble skipped two pages just to respond to fluff with fluff

[Wossi]

And now Mumble realizes he can't just make fluff posts so he makes a fluff vote instead

[Wossi]

Hey Xiao Long you moved up to a 2 congrats!

[Wossi]

Mumble skipped two pages just to respond to fluff with fluff

Weren’t you just asking me to show you examples of good input? That implies you didn’t think anyone has had any.

So why would somebody skipping over “not good” input be scummy exactly?

P.edit - cause you are hella scummy and I’d be super happy with your lynch

There's a difference between everyone posting low information level posts, and someone choosing only to quote and respond to completely non-game related questions. Obviously. You're stretching here pretty widely

[Wossi]

Obviously. You're stretching here pretty widely

If anyone was stretching it was you when you implied he was scummy for skipping a few useless pages.

and yet you feel the need to defend him

[Wossi]

Confirmed scum but you don't vote

[Wossi]

alright step right up good ppl of the perfect luv game and let me tell you why wossi is scum. taking questions now.

I just typed up a post explaining why I know he’s scum but I’ll wait to see what you have to say.

Hi, my name is Derpy Hooves, I'm scum and I very badly want to lynch town, but I so, so, so dont want to be held accountible so someone who reads townier then me please take responsibility! Thanks!

[Wossi]

Oof I was so excited when I got neighbor cause I thought I was gonna get a new best friends to share secrets with and act like Bert & Ernie. That obviously didn't happen.

Here's Derpy's mistake. Voting for someone on page two DOES NOT MEAN I think that someone is scum. I am 100% percent not ready to lynch Derpy. If he flew up to -1, -2 in the next couplle hours, I would jump off this wagon very quickly.

I didn't think my posting in the neighbor thread needed to match my posting here. I decided the bedt thing to do there would be to treat each other like confirmed town and share information. Best case, we're both town and have a sounding board for shared ideas. Worst case, one of is scum, and eventually after how many pages of playing town is going to slip up and give them selves away.

From the very beginning, Derpy wasn't willing to participate. Why? Don't know....we had nothing to lose but still, he shut the neighborhood thread down after 4 posts.

Derpy is either bold scum or moronic town. If he is town, he's probably assuming a two-man neighborhood would contain 1 maf and 1 town, which is fundamentally erroneous.

[Wossi]

I've never been a neighbor before. Wiki says its best to assume your partner is town

That doesn't mean I won't vote him in what I assumed was Random Vote Stage, and call him out in the game thread if he's acting weird.

He's my neighbor and I don't know his alignment....so I don't owe him anything

[Wossi]

It's ideal neighbor behavior to act like your partner is town and continue discussion REGARDLESS of what you thinn alignment might actually be.

You shutting down the neighborhood thread is frankly scummy. Flow of information is pro-town. Blockage of information is pro-scum. And with no hesitation you dove head first into blockage.

[Wossi]

Even if I was 100% certain you were scum I would STILL tell you i'm assuming you're town in the neighborhood. Because if I'm town with a scum neighbor, i'm gonna want to milk that for all I can. It makes zero sense to just say I'm not talking to you, you're scum, bye, which is exactly what you did.

Also, you conveniently fail to mention that my "assuming you're town" post was posted before there was even two posts in the main thread and before your insane tunneler persona came to surface. It's a total fallacy to continue to hold me accountable to that first friendly intro post after all the information that's been revealed

[Wossi]

If Derpy's town, there's a chance the meta of "two-man neighborhood has one town and one scum" tainted his read on me from the very beginning.

I really don't like how Animetrix indirectly asks town to confirm his thoughts in so many of his posts. Like nervous scum trying find reassurance that they're blending in.

[Wossi]

What deal are you talking about Xiao Long? looking back over your Iso isn't revealing anything...was it wait until day 2 or 3 to lynch you? That's not really a deal if town doesn't get anything back in return

[Wossi]

I really don't like how Animetrix indirectly asks town to confirm his thoughts in so many of his posts. Like nervous scum trying find reassurance that they're blending in.

Interesting, but I suppose I can understand this thought process. But, I must ask. Would nervous scum really be trying to put themselves into the conversation and asking for reads, rather than blending in completely?

Yes. Obviously.

[Wossi]

Elaboration: Scum never wants to blend. Town is too savvy for under-the-radar gameplay to float by undetected. Scum wants to look proactive in scumhunting, leading wagons and making waves, ideally at little or no risk to their scumselves or their buddies. I get a feeling that Animetrix is attempting this, but his need for town reassurance is a huge red flag. Especially the "are you sure you have good reasoning for town reading me" post to somebody earlier....i'd quote but im on phone and iPhone 4 is worthless


The only wierd thing is Xiao Long voting him first....

[Wossi]

All i want is a neighbor who loves me.....why would people being reluctant to bandwagon equal me being scum PR? Let it go Derpy. Jumping to conclusions and clinging to them with death grips gives scum openings to take advantage.

UNVOTE: Derpy Hooves

You're so annoying and so un-neighborly but I'm not scum reading you anymore

[Wossi]

Scum knows i'm town. Scum thinks I'm a likely lynch, leading to my flipping. I don't think scum would put all their eggs in my basket this early, because it doesn't make sense to go all or nothing on a mislynch with this little onformation

[Wossi]

because it doesn't make sense to go all or nothing on a mislynch with this little onformation

This is the most absurd statement

Are you saying I shouldn't townread you? Because I don't need to......


Putting energy and risk into ensuring a day one mislynch just isn't long term productive for scum. Day one scum want to be noncommittal. Derpy Hooves is the opposite of noncommittal.

[Wossi]

Why do you think I'm PR and not just regular scum btw?

[Wossi]

Why do you think I'm PR and not just regular scum btw?

There's hesitation against your wagon. Scum would be trying to save their PR, seeing as it's only D1. Duh.

Ten people arent voting me. Ten people are scum trying to save a PR? Okay.....

[Wossi]

Let’s skip over how it absurd it is that you think you can convince people you aren’t scum.

I’m referring to your statement that scum isn’t going to go all in on a mislynch. That’s absurd. Scum will and have gone all in on mislynches. Doing things that people think scum won’t do is literally the best way to play as scum

Bert & Ernie just got a divorce. We could have had so mich fun together neighbor! Too bad you tunnel harder then a prairie dog with an adderall addiction. We could have had something special...

[Wossi]

If you do manage to lynch me you owe me a romantic weekend in the Seychelles after I flip town

[Wossi]

Backtrack bactrack backtrack

also there's five posts in the hood before you shut it down. Do those five posts really carry so much weigh that you refuse to investigate anyone else in this game?

[Wossi]

Derpy and Xiao are so loud and so distracting. Scum is hiding, but not necessarily by not posting. Judging scumminess by activity level is a slippery slope. Town and scum are equally likely to have real life conflicts.

I want to dissect Animetrix and see if I can explain what's making me feel ick about his play....Nauci actually has similar vibes too. Kinda naive and kinda seeking affirmation a bit too much. Animetrix's "Are you sure you want to town read me?" was so bad and then Nauci actually gave him town points for it!. But I need to be on my computer. So tomorrow. But yeah, we need to stop allowing Derpy and Xiao to hog the spotlight

[Wossi]

VOTE: Animetrix

Also for such an overly-eager scum hunter he doesnt have a vote on anybody. There's plenty of choices, no good reason not to vote

[Wossi]

Also for a gamble to work it needs to not be blatantly obviously a gamble.....that was weird Xiao and I don't know what you were expecting....

[Wossi]

Maybe my double negative confused you but i said it doesnt work if it's obvious...

[Wossi]

Except you’re 100% wrong about me, so I have little reason to trust you’re right about Wossi.

If I’m wrong about you. Improve your play next time and stop trying to do things intentionally to force people to town read you.

Improve my play lol
My play has been fine, not my fault you can’t analyze.

Lol this site is just full of a ton of ppl that day "let me play the game my way, my ability to read ppl is so advanced and intelligent that I can play in a way that doesn't necessarily help town and we'll win because I'm so good."

Derpy is just as much guilty of this if not more so....

[Wossi]

You just make sense and play the game well without doing stupid crap. It's a joke and a compliment. Not playing every single game with you lmao.

Do you think refusing to utilize day one votes yet tunneling relentlessly is smart gameplay?

P-EDIT: That's fair

[Wossi]

Nevermind, I shouldn’t question anything Derpy does. I forgot I’m a bad player.

Flavor what happened to your wall tables?

It sounds like you're letting the fact that you dislike playing with him affect your read on him

Also, Tchill, nothing about my reads or gameplay has improved or become more intricate in response to you. I'm playing consistently. You cant pull stuff out of thin air and claim them to be scum tells

[Wossi]

for the sake of not ruining the game on day 1, I’m probably just going to ask questions and process information and won’t actually start pushing to lynch my scum reads until day 2. This is unorthodox and some will find it scummy but I’m not really worried about that.

It’s almost like I warned people about me and yet people still wanted to tangle with me

Ugh I just knew when you made that disclaimer you'd be quoting it down the line, like it somehow absolves you of all responsibility for your actions. Sorry, but you don't get to make an umbrella statement excusing yourself indefinitely. Why would town need or want this? You're self-aware enough to realize your play is problematic but make no effort to correct it?

Its a difference between you and Xiao Long....you have self-awareness, he doesn't

[Wossi]

No. Town should read town as town. Animetrix is mafia trying too hard to overcompensate. And Nauci is encouraging and supporting it.

[Wossi]

VOTE: Porkens

I’m not going to have much time today or tomorrow, but I will get to this game.

I think Porkens is scum taking advantage for a mislynch on Wossi.

Every post Wossi makes is giving me scummier vibes but I'm still quite paranoid this could be true.

Too basic that my scumminess increases at the same time I start calling you out....too obvious.

And Derpy, your play is problematic to me and I'm not scum nor playing badly on purpose. You made a judgement call sooooo early and then brickwalled me. How am I supposed to work with that? I read on the wiki that it's best play for neighbors who don't know each others alignment should just play uhder te assumptions their both town, so thats what I did. Then I voted for you. That's the chain of events that got us here. It's crazy that you've gotten to I must be scum with zero doubt from that. Your play is problematic

[Wossi]

It was not a vote to lynch. Nobody was in any danger of getting lynched. It was a vote to prod, to provoke, to delve up information. Also, just because I said I'm assuming you're town doesn't mean I believe it. Remember, I don't know your alignment. As far as I was concerned everything was fine. Your reaction is extreme and premature. People are going to laugh when our neighborhood is opened at the end of the game

[Wossi]

Also... XL wasn't joking with the fake hammer? It was Wossi bait? Like the whole argument was because Derpy shat on that gambit and didn't take it seriously?

P.S. That RVS post was straight up awful WIFOM baiting bs, XL. It's bad play regardless of your alignment and both makes you suspicious and wastes town time with stupid WIFOM posting. It's only downhill from there.

Pedit: I think he was saying he town reads you (for whatever reason), and also town reads Derpy for tunneling on you.

Also he was referring to Derpy's call to vig you that was like, in the last page.

Wossi I post exactly why I scum read your posts... You haven't shown evidence of either Anime or I seeking affirmation it's a shitty claim and your defense of lurking is scummy af. Idgaf how you read me, only *why.*

LG: why do you think fake hammer bait is indicative of anxiety?

Nauci, please be patient with me until I can get on a computer and dive into ISO. Animetrix is ringing alarm bells to me, and then by extension you too by defending and "normalizing" what I saw as his scummiest post

[Wossi]

If the whole point was to evoke some kind of "gotcha" moment with me, why would you do it when I was offline? I'm either actively reading, refreshing, and posting or not at all. You did your gambit while I was asleep and got everyone's reaction but mine. Why?

[Wossi]

I'm at what, L-2? L-3? Stop acting like I'm already dead. And Derpy, stop making noise for the sake of noise. Refusing to budge like this is making it impossible for the town to reason and explore all their options. You're not adding any dialogue by chanting "Lynch Wossi Lynch Wossi" over and over. And you've only gotten louder and more inane when Lord Gurgi starting poking holes in your gameplay. If you don't have something intelligent, new, and informative to add, leave it. You were ready to lynch on the first page, great. Now let the big kids spend the rest of the day using it for what its supposed to be used for

[Wossi]

Good. Enjoy your time away. It will be refreshing that the scum on my wagon won't get to hide in your obstinacy for a short bit. Let them do some independent thinking without their golden ticket to a mislynch

[Wossi]

Some quick thoughts on Animetrix:

Putting up a disclaimer like Derpy did doesn't do anything to advance the town, and makes it more difficult to gather tells. Does making a first-post disclaimer like that null all future texts? It shouldn't...

don't see how that's not scum hunting, prodding for clarity on actions that are unusual or untownlike

and to not be a hypocrite, because day one votes are important.

VOTE: Derpy Hooves

Wossi is scum. Found a half ass "this will make me look towny" reason to vote someone day 1 early.

VOTE: wossi

I think this is the first actual serious post I saw. While I don't necessary agree with tchill, I like the thought process that he has in this post. Shows that he's looking for tones in others posts, and he isn't worried about himself so far.

Bah, fine
I'll just sheep the Wossi vote then VOTE: Wossi

P-Edit: Hey look man, it's not my fault I'm stupid at forum tags!

This post gives me bad feelings, I feel as thought that it's a cheap reason to just jump on a vote early. There is really no explanation why they would sheep the vote. Maybe he was still making joke posts after the first actual scum read of the game? Either way. both reasons give me reason to pause.

---
Neither of his first two posts say anything at all. After an empty announcement that he was going to dive into some serious posts in 195, this is all he comes up with. In the first post, he says he likes Tchill's thought process? What thought process? Tchill critizes me for providing half-assed voting reasoning with half-assed voting reasoning of his own. And then Animetrix applauds him for looking for town and not "worrying about himself". What does that even mean? There's no connection. But yet Tchill's post is good , and Xiao Long's following post is bad. Equally empty. But Animetrix gets "bad feelings" and overanalyzes a sheep post. Maybe he's making a joke? No. He's sheeping. People do it. Way too much tryhard thought process on empty posts. Way too much busy work, bustling about trying to look town. And of course, because he's afraid to commit, he doesn't vote.

Flavor Leaf, I like the fact that you are trying to make your reads known with the graph thing you are doing, but I would like some more expansion on some of them. Like your tone read on Nauci, what about their tone? Is there a certain post? Cause I haven't seen anything alignment indicative so far from them.

Out of all the people Flavor Leaf didn't elaborate on, why specify Nauci? I don't like the relationship between these two.

[Wossi]

hello friends
VOTE: Xiao
scummy imo

@fl are you trying something new?

At this point of reading the posts, I noticed that others were picking up my scum vibes for Xiao as well. This post seems just like jumping on a wagon, though. Again no explanation, and it looks like trying to be busy by voting, while asking a question to deflect of the vote.

If the point of this post is to critize Dunkerdoodles for wagon jumping, why does Animetrix feel the need to remind us that he's scumreading Xiao like a good little town? There's no need for a town player to do this. Especially because he's still not actually voting Xiao. Animetrix's is just hoping for some extra town points by agreeing with the majority wagon and making damn sure we know he's agreeing with the majority wagon

[Wossi]

Animetrix (shoutouts to Animatrix) as towny

Can you expand on this? All I did was catch up. It would help me analyze you better. I personally don't see what I could have done in the catch up to make you think I'm one of your top town reads so far. But, perhaps that is just my skeptical nature.

THIS THIS THIS is the post I hate. This is the giant red flag. It's just so sycophantically scummy.

Nauci: I'm town reading Animetrix!
Animetrix: Oh, are you sure you want to do that? Are you sure I've been playing town enough? All I did was catch up! Please, reassure me while simultaneously validate my towniness in front of every one else!
Nauci: Oh, of course! Anything else for you, buddy?

I know I'm exaggerating with that paraphrasing. But still, it looks that bad to me. If I was Nauci I would have called Animetrix out with red alerts after that post, and what did she do? encouraged it.

[Wossi]

I really don't like how Animetrix indirectly asks town to confirm his thoughts in so many of his posts. Like nervous scum trying find reassurance that they're blending in.

Interesting, but I suppose I can understand this thought process. But, I must ask. Would nervous scum really be trying to put themselves into the conversation and asking for reads, rather than blending in completely?

Laidback scum coasts and sheeps and flies under the radar. Nervous scum tries too hard to look town. And subsequently exposes themselves. Like you're doing with this post.

[Wossi]

Now a brief look at Nauci in relationship to Animentrix

Interesting, but I suppose I can understand this thought process. But, I must ask. Would nervous scum really be trying to put themselves into the conversation and asking for reads, rather than blending in completely?

I just liked your reads of tchill and XL, and your prodding. For example, I really like this post because it sounds like genuine scum hunting. Also your post @ FL.

This is the reassurance and validation I mentioned earlier. Animetrix made such a scummy post. And Nauci tries to fool us all by saying no, no, it's genuine scum hunting. Who is he scum hunting here???? Himself?! She's taking advantage of a town distracted by Derpy's railing against Xiao and I to sweep her partner's misteps under the carpet.

I really don't like how Animetrix indirectly asks town to confirm his thoughts in so many of his posts. Like nervous scum trying find reassurance that they're blending in.

I'm not sure if I understand what phenomenon you're referring to?

Here she is again. Defending Animetrix before I even started openly linking them together.

So who's ready for the day to be over?

Yup! Let's get this day over. Please lynch Wossi before he keeps drawing attention to me and my bumbling partner.

[Wossi]

mod, can I have a new neighbor? mine is broken....

[Wossi]

VOTE: Animetrix

Also for such an overly-eager scum hunter he doesnt have a vote on anybody. There's plenty of choices, no good reason not to vote

I can't comprehend the point you're trying to get across. What makes me an 'overly-eager' scum hunter, when I've only scum read two people so far? Also, you're saying that me not voting yet, makes me scum? How so? What is the thought process behind that?

Overly-eager in tone, not in actual results. If you were producing reads and results, I wouldn't be scumreading you. The tone and energy with zero substance is what you makes you a fraud.

Also, did you just entirely skip my last five posts? Please read 517 to 521 and respond

[Wossi]

VOTE: Animetrix

Also for such an overly-eager scum hunter he doesnt have a vote on anybody. There's plenty of choices, no good reason not to vote

I can't comprehend the point you're trying to get across. What makes me an 'overly-eager' scum hunter, when I've only scum read two people so far? Also, you're saying that me not voting yet, makes me scum? How so? What is the thought process behind that?

Overly-eager in tone, not in actual results. If you were producing reads and results, I wouldn't be scumreading you. The tone and energy with zero substance is what you makes you a fraud.

So now you're saying it's the way I speak? I am trying to gather reads, at the time of my last post, we were only 3 posts in, and I had already given 4 reads, so your point doesn't make sense here. What exact substance are you talking about?

Two reads or four reads?

[Wossi]

Have you read my case on you yet? I quoted your "cases", they were empt. And from the whole post your only rebuttal is about Nauci. You have no control over Nauci's actions so the fact that she swept in to assist you has nothing to do with your gameplay. Why is the only point you respond to in all my five posts about her and not you? Take responsiblity for your actions. Give you reads proper and original reasoning. Cast a vote.

[Wossi]

Hi, my name is Derpy Hooves, I'm scum and I very badly want to lynch town, but I so, so, so dont want to be held accountible so someone who reads townier then me please take responsibility! Thanks!

THIS THIS THIS is the post I hate. This is the giant red flag

No town would dare make this terrible of a post while blowing smoke up my ass saying you assume I’m town and trying to get me to talk with you.

And I’m gone like a ghost.

This logic only works if your towniness was confirmed. It wasn't and it still isn't. I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again. My first post in the neighborhood said I'm going to play under the assumption you're town. Then I made that post in response to a scummy post you made. That's it. That's it! That's the huge contradiction you caught me in! That's your entire case! I'm currently thinking you're not scum, but unfortunately its pointless to get invested in the futile task of trying to change your mind. I'll have a more productive time focusing on Animetrix and Nauci.

Derpy just wants so badly to be this kind of savant, this misunderstood genius that can catch scum in one post. And his relentless pursuit of that fantasy is preventing him from playing a pro-town and reasonable game. He may not be scum, but he's certainly giving them a lot of help.

[Wossi]

Umm, you just offered her up as a potential lynch...and all the reasoning you've got is a feeling? What's going on here?

[Wossi]

You don't lynch on just a feeling

[Wossi]

Literally half of Derpys argument is about the neighborhood which is worthless to me since I can’t verify anything he’s said and he’s proven to be an anti town player.

Wossi hasn't tried to deny it. I think that's pretty telling. I think he's trying to backpedal through a look-im-being-honest kind of approach.

He basically confirmed it. Saying he was going to try and use it to his advantage if I was actually scum if when you actually think about it makes no sense.

1. If I’m scum and he’s town no mattter how much he butters me up, I’d never reveal I’m scum or who my partners were.

2. If he wanted to butter me up. He’d be consistent and treat me like I’m town in both forums.

The moment I didn’t take his bait. He turned on me. That’s scum.

I wouldn't expect scum to casually reveal themselves, that's ridiculous. But I think it would be difficult to fake being town in the neighborhood as the days went on. This debate of whether I confirmed or denied or didn't confirm or didn't deny is stupid and time wasting. Derpy and I have expressed consistent versions of events. His only mistake is jumping into an death tunnel on me so early and with so little information.

Derpy's neighborhood is STILL the only case on me. I'm worried about the people calling for my lynch without sharing any reasoning why

[Wossi]

Hi, my name is Derpy Hooves, I'm scum and I very badly want to lynch town, but I so, so, so dont want to be held accountible so someone who reads townier then me please take responsibility! Thanks!

THIS THIS THIS is the post I hate. This is the giant red flag

No town would dare make this terrible of a post while blowing smoke up my ass saying you assume I’m town and trying to get me to talk with you.

And I’m gone like a ghost.

I just realized mu post 165 was made long after you had shut down the neighborhood. Derpy's version of events ARE false.

Derpy made his last post in the neighborhood (asking the mod to remove him) while we were on page five in the main thread. Reread the first five pages again and tell me if his behavior is warranted, thanks.

[Wossi]

"No town would dare make this terrible of a post while blowing smoke up my ass saying you assume I’m town and trying to get me to talk with you."

???

This is present tense, implying that I made post 165 while simultaneously talking to you in the neighborhood. That's false. You are being dishonest and attempting to manipulate town to push my lynch.

[Wossi]

Neighborhood was over way before 165. Even overconfidant and stubborn town has zero reason for that kind of tampering

VOTE: Derpy Hooves

It also blows up my reasoning for town reading you. I thought your desperation to be a mafia genius was tainting uou play. But this calculated. You're really trying to manipulate the neighborhood case in order to get me lynched!

[Wossi]

Xiao, Gurgi please stop this back and forth. Derpy Hooves has exposed himself

[Wossi]

"No town would dare make this terrible of a post while blowing smoke up my ass saying you assume I’m town and trying to get me to talk with you."

???

This is present tense, implying that I made post 165 while simultaneously talking to you in the neighborhood. That's false. You are being dishonest and attempting to manipulate town to push my lynch.

That wasn’t what I was implying. At least it wasn’t my intention. Even after I shut it down your last post was saying I’m making a mistake. Clearly I wasn’t

No, intention is clear. You slipped and now your backtracking. You implied there was action in the thread when thee was none.

Now I understand why you shut the neighborhood down so quickly and for so little reason. You were afraid YOU we're gonna slip up. And then you turned it against me to cover up! Of course scum isn't going to want ANOTHER front where they have to keep a consistent deception. You tried to give yourself a free pass!

[Wossi]

No, intention is clear. You slipped and now your backtracking. You implied there was action in the thread when thee was none.

No I didn’t. The moment you voted me I knew you were lying in the Hood. 165 wasn’t why I shut the Hood down. 165 was why I knew 100% you were scum though.

How bad do you want to 1 v 1 this? Cause I’m willing to go off the cliff to prove I’m town and get you lynched. You ready for that?

Oh, would you rather I just shut up? Am I not turning out to be the easy mislynch you'd thought I be?

First off, read my arguments before you clutter the threads with empty rebuttals. We're not debating why you shut the neighborhood down. Your post is scummy because you imply that the neighborhood is active when it is not. That is dishonest and manipulative and even the most stubborn town wouldnt partake in that

[Wossi]

Tchill you're so insightful.

also, Derpy, only scum feels a need to prove their towniness. And you said I was trying to talk to you. That would require activity. Should I quote the post again? Should I bold and underline exactly where you messed up?

[Wossi]

Everytime now you repeat yourself that you don't lie you contradict yourself more and more

[Wossi]

Xiao why are you ignoring post 535? Are you avoiding coming down too hard on your buddy?

[Wossi]

Clarification: Derpy's dishonestly in post 535 where he implies the neighborhood is active when its not, where he implies that I was still talking to him when I wasn't

[Wossi]

Ok 1. I said what’s the problem with lying to scum?
And 2. Lol it’s literally a game revolving around lying and seeing through others lies. If you really had a problem with lying, you would replace out of every scum game.

1. Is have to have lots of conversations perpetuating a lie. Not gonna do that for a small percentage payoff.
2. I lie very little as scum actually. It’s a blessing so many townies play like shit. I just push people who do things I legitimately scum read.

Number one is exactly why scum would shut down the neighborhood

[Wossi]

Hi, my name is Derpy Hooves, I'm scum and I very badly want to lynch town, but I so, so, so dont want to be held accountible so someone who reads townier then me please take responsibility! Thanks!

THIS THIS THIS is the post I hate. This is the giant red flag

No town would dare make this terrible of a post while blowing smoke up my ass saying you assume I’m town and trying to get me to talk with you.

And I’m gone like a ghost.

Read it again. you said that I made 165 while blowing smoke up your ass and trying to get you to talk to me most definitely implies activity. Neighborhood was dead. That is the lie you made and no amount of denial or professed constant honesty is going to make it go away

[Wossi]

Except I’m not scum. You are.

I'm not the one who shut down the neighborhood

[Wossi]

Everyone. Whatever happens today. Just remember to lynch wossi tomorrow ok?

What is this drivel why are you acting like you're already dead, there's two people voting for you. Why would you even make this post except for more manipulation?

[Wossi]

Dude you are arguing semantics over me using the wrong tense. Gtfoh

Oh is that what they call a slip nowadays? Just semantics?

[Wossi]

What is this, attempted intimidation? How is that good play? I've already told you I'm ready for anything you could possibly throw at me. I'm not going to let scum live because your being melodramatic. Stop blustering and play the game.

And oh, now you say were and not is. That's a huge difference. You do know how tenses work! You only forget when your trying to misrep me.

[Wossi]

This is flailing, desperate, exposed scum trying to use any trick in his arsenal to stay alive. Where's the brutal 1vs1 you warned me about? After you asked me twice if was ready for it my anticipations are running high....

Also, whatever that line is that your so worries about crossing? Just don't cross it. Easy. Stop being dramatic

[Wossi]

stop this tvt madness and lynch xiao
ty <3

i think there is a scum in (xiao, gurgi, derpy)

Tvt nonsense but Derpy's in youe scum pool? Huh?

[Wossi]

I think Wossi's posts from today made me extra suspicious of him to the point of confidence.

VOTE: wossi

However on the slight chance that he's town I'll be FOSing Tchill harder than I expected for that weak ass case.

So I made a valid push that got met with a wave of AtE, attempted intimidation, threats to quit, etc, and I'm scum? Derpy's quality of play visibly dropped in response to my push...

And what was bad about my push on Animetrix other then the fact that it implicated you?

You can't just say my pushes are shitty, then step away and leave it at that. You gotta give reasoning that stands up on ita own. Stop being lazy scum Nauci, give a little more effort

[Wossi]

why does wossi make that argument to nauci instead of me?

Because I mostly just ignore you. Also what? That argument applies to Nauci, not you. Your opinion on me hasnt changed because of my most recent interaction with Derpy. You've never said anything about me scumreading Animetrix. So what are you even trying to accomplish here?

[Wossi]

Nauci, how do you know there are more then two scum?

[Wossi]

anime to null

Interesting, what brought upon this change?

I still can't believe I'm the only one who's super weirded out by Animetrix and Nauci's interactions. Like, is no one else seeing this?

[Wossi]

Tchill, who do you think his partners are?

I'm also not going to let this go. How can she know there's a three (or more) person scum faction?

[Wossi]

Nauci, how do you know there are more then two scum?

I assumed in a normal game of 13 people 3 scum is typical?

VOTE: Nauci

[Wossi]

People need to stop letting Nauci coast. If they only way I'm gonna get taken seriously on this one is getting lynched and flipping green, so be it.

[Wossi]

Nauci, how do you know there are more then two scum?

I assumed in a normal game of 13 people 3 scum is typical?

VOTE: Nauci

Why is that vote worthy?

Why would you assume there's three scum sharing a faction? No where on the wiki or in this games rules does it have any kind of number or indication.

i'm frustrated because I'm the only one scum reading her and the majority of town is content to sheep/just wants the day to end and I'm feel like I'm going down with a sinking ship.

[Wossi]

People need to stop letting Nauci coast. If they only way I'm gonna get taken seriously on this one is getting lynched and flipping green, so be it.

Nauci isn't coasting.

VOTE: wossi

XML, if you are town, I can't imagine you have a problem lynching wossi today.

Nobody is challenging her. Nobody is pushing her. She's doing scummy things and every one can't stop talking in circles over Derpy, Xiao Long, and myself. Thirty pages and only three players have been put under the microscope. There's no excuse for this. I can't believe I'm seeing multiple players saying they wish the day would just end when we still have eight irl days of game play lefts and a replacement who hasn't even caught up yet.

[Wossi]

3 scum all in th same faction? People were floating SK theories earlier. I think its a slip that she said "partners" . What does the town have to lose by examining Nauci?

[Wossi]

Not just three scum. Three scum all in the same faction. People said Tchill might be SK. How does Nauci know there's no SK? SK AND MAFIA ARE NOT PARTNERS! Stop arguing about the number 3 and read what I'm saying!

[Wossi]

Also, Nauci isn't the first person to assume a 3-scum team

Why do you consider her uniquely scummy for that

Ok, who was the first person to assume 3-scum team?

[Wossi]

Not just three scum. Three scum all in the same faction. People said Tchill might be SK. How does Nauci know there's no SK? SK AND MAFIA ARE NOT PARTNERS! Stop arguing about the number 3 and read what I'm saying!

Lol what would that change? This summer I finished a mini that had an SK. There were still 3 scum (4 non-town total)

Okay, if that's true, then you're right. Not a slip. I didnt know these things were established

VOTE: Derpy Hooves

I think I have a bias against Nauci because all her interactions with Animetrix make my skin crawl. Seriously, check it out.

[Wossi]

Animetrix (shoutouts to Animatrix) as towny

Can you expand on this? All I did was catch up. It would help me analyze you better. I personally don't see what I could have done in the catch up to make you think I'm one of your top town reads so far. But, perhaps that is just my skeptical nature.

anime to null

Interesting, what brought upon this change?

Why does he only make these posts to Nauci?

[Wossi]

It just looks to me like scum trying to get guidance from a buddy

[Wossi]

Wossi why did you wait til now to question 3 scum when multiple people have made reference to it all game including myself?

Use of the word partners instead of partner was weird to me, seemed too sure and not speculative. But I've already revoked that point and admitted my error.

Derpy you don't think anything is odd how Nauci and Animetrix interact?

[Wossi]

You still think as you did more than 300 posts ago?

Is this to me? Then yes, Animetrix post 815 rekindled my suspicion

[Wossi]

So weird that your stepping back from your "lynch Wossi or I quit" stance. i don't know how I feel about this new tactic.

[Wossi]

Have you ever unvoted me or voted for anyone else? Is voting me for over and over just an attempt to look productive?

I want to lynch Derpy or Nauci today. I'll reluctantly settle for Xiao if him and I are the only options, but I'm not really scum reading him. Honestly, by this point I won't even be upset if I get lynched, because at least finally people like Tchill will finally have to shut up, stop calling for my lynch over and over and over again and actually start playing the game.

I really don't like how Derpy is trying to pretend like his tunneling never happened. No acknowledgement, no transparency, just subtle under-the-radar revision of game play.

[Wossi]

I’m kind of torn on wossi now. I have to decide if he’s faking ignorance or if he legitimately didn’t know about 3 scum being standard.

More to the point: what specifically about this latest exchange is making you turn around on your deathtunnel position?

Just thinking of past experiences. Majority of the time when a newbie questions the number of scum in a game they have been town. I’ve seen only once where scum faked it.

My issue is he should have pointed it out sooner.

I’m not sold on you being town yet but historically what you did points to town. Could be fake.

Unless somebody is going to make a compelling argument on someone else it seems wossy/xl are the most likely lynches with me as a 3rd option. No point in waiting a week to decide on these 3 people.

Chickadee he HAS been tunneling open all game. That's what makes his recent wavering in the quotes above odd. It's a pretty big shift to go from threatening to quit if I don't get lynched, to being torn on me. Especially after the negative reaction he got for going to extremes. It's odd and town is letting it slide. Granted, I don't have any problem with people changing their minds, people SHOULD change their minds. But if you reread the last couple pages its like he's trying to slip under the radar after his outbursts.

[Wossi]

It's the way you changed your mind. You never said, hey town, maybe I was wrong about Wossi. You just kind of.......backed down quietly.

[Wossi]

It's just way too big a shift! You were literally threatening to quit the game if I didn't get lynched. How can you just shift so casually?

But I'm not gonna waste another 10 pages going back and forth with you. All I wanted to do was point it out for the rest of the town to see. I don't want you slipping under any radars

[Wossi]

the bias against me is strong

[Wossi]

the bias against me is strong

I don’t what to argue with you anymore but when you say something factually untrue and not just me but somebody else corrects you. That isn’t bias. Maybe you are biased?

Against myself? At this point I don't even know anymore. I make points and observations that I think are valid, and people jump on me. Usually the same people. Usually Derpy and Nauci. Pay attention to when Nauci started scum reading me (hint: directly after I scum read her). Like I've come to the conclusion that, yes, I'm a noob, yes, I've made weak pushes. But I've made good ones too. And everything is getting washed over with "no, shut up, you're scum, lynch wossi." And whoever's town in the Anti-Wossi party is completely oblivious to scum trying to take advantage of the negative town opinion on me. Negative town opinion that frankly all started with Derpy.

I never called Derpy himself under the radar. That's stupid, he's obviously not. I just don't like how he was so extreme and then backed down from it once he got a negative reaction from the town. Maybe I'm failing at the argument but I don't think it's town-indicative for someone like him.

And by coasting, I didn't mean posting fluff like Tchill or Dunk. That's not coasting. Look how much everyone is noticing their lack of contribution. They're not flying under the radar like that for very long. Nauci and Anime are going through the actions of scum hunting, but not actually doing much or getting any results, nor are people really reacting to them or pressuring them. It's a free ride. Nauci keeps saying she's pressuring people but looking back over the thread I'm not seeing. Nauci, maybe quote some of your greatest hits, your best scumhunting moments from this game. Show me your not coasting. Actions, not words.

Oh and one more thing. Nauci, you've been trying to read me as town? Hah.

[Wossi]

I just don't like how he was so extreme and then backed down from it once he got a negative reaction from the town.

I didn't back off because of a negative reaction though.

Why did you back down? Don't say because I didn't know the scum set up, because you dropped it before then. The way it looks to me, you threatened to quit if I wasn't lynched, that tactic didn't get the result you wanted, and then you switched up your play.

[Wossi]

God Wossi I keep trying to read you as not scummy and you keep posting scummier.

It's like you want to die or something. Every case you push either has bad logic or bad premises but you don't back down on them.

It's honestly comical to accuse me of coasting and derpy of being under the radar.

Chickadee you are spot on about tchill. He's been resting on his laurels for 20 pages.

Like I could laugh, literally every sentence in this post is wrong.

[Wossi]

Nauci, what do you think about Lord Gurgi wanting to start a wagon on you?

[Wossi]

The wrong part about it was that he has no laurels to rest on...to get laurels you need to accomplish something first.

[Wossi]

Don't say because I didn't know the scum set up, because you dropped it before then.

So you don’t want me to answer the question. Why ask it?

I didn’t drop anything before then actually. The only reason why I was threatening to kill myself is because you were flat out lying and giving me shit over a typo.

So why stop? My view point didn't change. I still don't think you made a typo. I still think you were manipulative over the neighborhood.

And I want you to answer the question. I just want you to give the right answer.

[Wossi]

But you backed off and stopped threatening extreme actions before I said anything about 3 scum?

[Wossi]

Nauci, you mentioned reactions that Derpy and others extracted from me? Please be more specific and detailed. You're so vague about everything. It's easy to say, oh yeah, I pressured this person, I withdrew information from that person, but you don't have anything backing it up.

That's why I wanted you to pull up some quotes. Give me tangible examples of you putting in work. The fact that you didn't is telling....

There's so many minor inconsistencies in your postings that it just makes the whole thing feel dishonest. Like, you say you can see why people would want to push you but up until now you've been claiming to be the least coasty-est, most proactive, best scum hunter in the town?

[Wossi]

From what I'm seeing Wossi hasn't handled the 3 scum thing well at all.

Elaborate please? I thought use of the word partners was a slip because it implied Nauci had more information about scum then the rest of us. People explained my error, I moved on. What more was there to handle?

[Wossi]

nauci could be town driving the game or scum in plain sight. not sure yet.

This

XL: do you always use nicknames for everyone? Like, in every single game?

Here we see Nauci laying on the pressure and asking those critical questions needed to catch scum.



Honestly, though, at this point I don't even mind being lynched. It's probably the most productive thing I can do for town, as everything I say now is tainted by the universal scum read on me. (even though I have yet to be impressed by anyone's case on me), After I'm confirmed town hopefully people will be able to work out who were the scum driving the mislynch and who were the sheepish town getting misled. I don't think it should be that hard to spot.

[Wossi]

But you backed off and stopped threatening extreme actions before I said anything about 3 scum?

Yes I stopped threatening extreme actions before your 3 scum thing.

I didn’t stop pushing your lynch though.

Post 721 - is when I threatened to replace out
Post 725 - I tell Lord that I’m going to do the right thing and not ruin games.
Post 726 - I say pick one of us
Post 729 - I say it’s one of us
Post 733 - you can tell I still scum read you. I just say I’m not going to let you bait me into killing myself.
Post 740 - tells dunker to lynch one of us

Post 835 - you mentioned the 3 scum thing
Post 853 - is when I start trying to process of your 3 scum thing was a legit noob slip or not
And you know the rest cause you quoted it.

So I didn’t change my read on you BEFORE the 3 scum thing.

Nice try though.

If this was your "proving me wrong" I ignored it because I'm tired of you and your tactics, frankly.

I DIDN'T find it scummy that your read on me changed.

I DID found it scummy that you changed your tactics after the majority of the town reacted negatively to them. From hardcore LYNCH WOSSI NO OTHER OPTIONS and then all of a sudden in 754 you're poking at Tchill for not voting Xiao Long? Where did that even come from? That's whats threw me off. That happened before my comment to Nauci and before your read on me openly changed. But it's still an weird weird shift.

If you're arguing against a different argument then the one being made, you can win any time. And if your goal with that tactic is to frustrate me and muddy the waters, you succeed. But that doesn't make you town

[Wossi]

you're poking at Tchill for not voting Xiao Long? Where did that even come from?

to play this game, town has to be curious about things. Especially things that don't make sense.

tchill wants XL dead and he is close to a lynch but doesn't vote him. That struck me as odd and I wanted to know why. This could be useful information at some point. Maybe not day 1, but later in the game.

Ok, same deflective tactic as before, noted.

I WAS NOT arguing that it was scummy to question Tchill
I WAS arguing that it was an abrupt shift to leap from LYNCH WOSSI OR I CROSS THE LINE AND DO SOMETHING EXTREME to "hey, let me just get some casual questioning in to some completely unrelated people, maybe it'll pay off later." It's not the action itself, it's the timing and the sequence of it all.

Your strategy and tone changed dramatically after town reacted negatively to you, even considered lynching you. Town doesn't care what the rest of the town thinks about them, this isn't a popularity contest. Town doesn't lose anything by getting lynched. Scum does. Scum needs to make sure the majority of town approves of their actions. And that's what it looks like you did.

You've been twisting and misinterperating arguments in your favor this whole game.

[Wossi]

There's 4 votes on Wossi right now. My guess is scum aren't hard bussing yet, because of interest in other wagons.

There's 5 days left. Those of you not voting Wossi, please give us compelling reasons why. At what point are you willing to consolidate? If you're not, are you saying a no lynch is better than a flip that would give us a lot of info?


Pedit: I agree with Derpy here. ^^^

obviously no lynch isnt better, why are you even suggesting that?

[Wossi]

Look how eagerly they pile on me.

Obviously I'm not saying, oh look guys, Chickadee supports No Lynch!

But why would you even ask it?

Do you really think someone's gonna step forward and say "oh, how'd you know, No Lynch was plan all along?" Obviously not. There's going to be a lynch. So why ask a pointless question that no one is going to answer anyway? Both Chickadee and Nauci like to ask questions out into the air, get zero answers, and then happily move along, pleased with themselves that they made their town contribution for the day

[Wossi]

wossi wagon is stalled because it's scum.

I'm biased by knowing my alignment, but I'm pretty sure my wagons stalled because scum's already on it.

Derpy's gonna hammer if I get to L-1. Scum just needs to squeeze out two more votes! Porkens keeps voting me over and over, it helps to confuse people's vote counts

[Wossi]

Scum also has a lot to gain by trying to cement this "it has to be Wossi or it has to be Xiao Long, no other options!" idea because I'm pretty sure we're both town.

Take note now how vehemently Chickadee opposed lynching Nauci

[Wossi]

Look how eagerly they pile on me.

You literally post this right after 2 posts saying it stalled lmao

I'm talking about how you, Chickadee, and Derpy all jump on the same comment about No Lynch, not about votes on my wagon stalling. So yeah, lmao indeed

[Wossi]

Dave, Gurgi, Anime, Dunk: you're all okay with how much Wossi inaccurately portrays what people have said? Are you saying he hasn't been doing that, or that you don't scum read what he does?

What exactly have I misrepresented? There have been events in this game that I have found scummy and you haven't. If we're both town that makes a difference of opinion. You don't get to accuse me of misrepping someone just because you don't agree with me, especially when you give passes to people who explain their reads as hunches or don't even explain their reads at all

[Wossi]

If Xiao Long ever flips red at any point in this game, pay attention to who was trying so hard to divert his wagon right here

[Wossi]

Reason to Lynch Wossi: wagon met some opposition versus xl wagon which grewssubstantially faster. My 2nd biggest scum read in the game refuses to vote him, I made a case earlier about how he's trying to find half ass towny reasons to push derpy early game, after derpy called out his bs in the neighborhood wossis posting style changed immediately it got a lot more complex and methodical, apparently he's also stating stuff that didn't happen doubling down on it and then ignoring it when he's wrong which is something derpy has brought up

That "apparently" is important and I'm glad you added it because Nauci just keeps repeating that I'm misrepping and hoping it'll catch own by sheer repetition. If she can quote one example of me posting something unarguably false (and not just something she disagrees with) I'll vote myself.

I'm honestly torn whether or not to vote Xiao Long.

On one hand, yes, it will probably be objectively better for town if I'm lynched because then everyone who's tunneling me and racing to poke holes in any idea or observation I bring up will be forced to stop hiding in plain sight, and pick a new strategy other then pick a noob and declare him scum over and over and over again until town starts to believe it.

On the other hand, I'm 100% sure I'm town. I can't say that about Xiao Long. If this was Atlantic City, I should take my chances are lynch him rather then just rolling over and letting Derpy hammer me (you can tell he's so so so excited it might happen soon) Even though he's not my top scum read, it's still more likely that he's scum then I am.

I agree with whoever said that a night action could still prove I'm town, and that night action doesn't mean I need to die

[Wossi]

Vote tchill to save yourself.

Saving yourself is only important to scum....

oof I love this idea of a third option. Scum was probably thrilled that their "Lynch must be Wossi or Xiao Long, NO OTHER OPTIONS" shtick was actually working. But I don't think Tchill is the right one...

[Wossi]

Scum wants to avoid being lynched at all costs. There's only a few scum to begin with, and if someone flips red, all his or her interactions are going to be scanned and pored over and it's pretty likely it will lead to their buddies. So scum practice self-preservation

Town has less aversion to being lynched. If town wins, all town wins, even lynched members. So if lynching me is the absolutely best move for the town, bring it on. If the only reason I'm fighting against my lynch is because I don't want to die, then I'm not playing town right. Town doesn't need to focus of self-preservation because their goal rides with the success of the majority group.

Of course, I'm not going to lynch myself, because I'd never agree to lynching town. But I'm not going to resort to destructive, dishonest, or anti-town efforts solely in order to save myself.

[Wossi]

Scum wants to avoid being lynched at all costs. There's only a few scum to begin with, and if someone flips red, all his or her interactions are going to be scanned and pored over and it's pretty likely it will lead to their buddies. So scum practice self-preservation

Town has less aversion to being lynched. If town wins, all town wins, even lynched members. So if lynching me is the absolutely best move for the town, bring it on. If the only reason I'm fighting against my lynch is because I don't want to die, then I'm not playing town right. Town doesn't need to focus of self-preservation because their goal rides with the success of the majority group.

Of course, I'm not going to lynch myself, because I'd never agree to lynching town. But I'm not going to resort to destructive, dishonest, or anti-town efforts solely in order to save myself.

would you hammer yourself as town?

Definitely not. There's no benefit from that. Self-hammering robs the town of information