Large Normal 208 - Fireworks Festival [End]


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Post Post #5075 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:00 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@town

Today we are very likely at 7 man LYLO. To win from there we are looking for 3 scum lynches in row. Hero plays where you YOLO a vote onto the one person who is scummiest in your mind likely wont be enough to win it from here. Even if you turn out to be right.
If you are right and not even a single townie votes you instead of the scum, because you
ALSO
made such a compelling case...

Then yay we get through the day.
But
you also need to work towards getting enough out of the day to set up the next two lynches.

So: Please don't runaway and not play, pls don't just Yolo the day away, both are scum favoring and scum indicative: instead
play mafia
.

So what will
play mafia
mean?

Well you could instead of
vote player_1, YOLO!!!!
say
Hey player_1 you are dirty rotten good for nothing scum as soon as we stop mucking around I am going to insta vote you.
LOL LOL LOL.

But that is not really getting information.

Instead stuff as benign as: find people who have reads that are different to yours and find out why. Ie
play mafia
.
Maybe you or them will find out their read is wrong or at least each understand why the other made the read … or find out its fake and they are lying scum. Ie
play mafia
.

To get off this I will do few practical examples, but I am going to write post about/titled
Truth
and
Lies
and townies,
PLEASE wait and read that one before responding to any of the question posts below if they involve you.

PEdit:
@Transcend
you could always say why you think that? (no waiting for truth and lies post required..)
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Post Post #5076 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:02 pm

Post by Transcend »

I could but i don't want to and i feel a good chunk of people agree with me on these.
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Post Post #5077 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:18 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5074, Transcend wrote:Think it's flairs lucky and whiskers
there is no way this is 5 scum.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5078 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:22 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Nero
if you get here before I make my next post
please
don't answer this post until you read the next one OK, .................. Please. ta tia.
It will take a little bit to write in needs quotes.

@Nero

Regarding your Lucky Read. It currently seems to be different to mine, I want to know why and how you got it when. In as many words and detail as you can manage.

Yesterday you had got as far as
In post 5011, Nero Cain wrote:I'm prob in favor of lynching Lucky today but I still Axe's play has been a mess and I'm not really town reading him.
but you were voting me not lucky at that time.

Back here you were very pro town Lucky. (and there are other points of time too)
In post 3822, Nero Cain wrote:What happens when Lucky flips town?
What changed your mind that drastically? What was there that was so very scum indicative in Luckies play after that?
Earlier I agreed with your stance on UCV/lucky. Most of my town read on the slot came from earlier plays, but nothing lately has significantly changed my views on alignment.

As I have been TRing the slot, perhaps I missed the stuff you saw. What was it?

@Lucky
I suggest after we are done you get to comment kk. For now I talk to nero about that Ok? 3 cornered convos fuck up and get harder to get reads out of.

Spoiler: for clarity : expected procedure
I and Nero discuss the above. When we are done, Lucky gets to comment on whether either person seems to have a questionable read basis. That might look like a gimme to Lucky, but I think it might be the hardest part; as not looking either like a scummy OMGUS, or working out when to question how genuine a TR is, is not easy for scum to fake.
Then of course third parties can chip in if they choose.
Why a procedure? To milk the day for info.

TLDR: please dont stmp in otehr people puddles. Take your turn. Prioritise who needs to talk and when its best to listen. Motherhood and apple is good too. kk.

@Nero
if you get here before I make my next post
please
don't answer this post until you read the next one OK, .................. Please. ta tia.
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Post Post #5079 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:24 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5077, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5074, Transcend wrote:Think it's flairs lucky and whiskers
there is no way this is 5 scum.
lol, got my games mixed up. Though I'm leaning 3 scum no so....
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5080 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:35 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

To clarify, I'm supposed to wait until you post before I respond to 5078?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5081 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:11 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Truth
and
Lies




Ok so LAL is a thing and people who lie about roles and claims and stuff get lynched. But that is not what i am talking about.

I townread nauci because nauci told the
truth
. And i was somewhat confident i had worked that out. Hence I would not vote her.

Nauci telling
truth

Spoiler: a tortuous process.
Starting back here viewtopic.php?p=9674293#p9674293 I found something i didnt quite like in Nauci posting but I had to clarify some potentially ambiguous stuff first. (eliminate wiggle room)

By here I had managed to nail it down.
viewtopic.php?p=9674308#p9674308
and by here make it clear i was serious
viewtopic.php?p=9675780#p9675780

and here I explained why I wanted to know.
viewtopic.php?p=9676027#p9676027
Nauci's & which explained the cock up (change of mind state half through writing the post) looked like not the kind of thing scum make up.
It was also a viable explanation of how the post got written at all, when before that in my mind it didn't make sense if Nauci already had an idea about TIAM experience level before she started. Because i thought he should also know or believe i would. So i couldn't reliably before hand find a good purpose ( a question a townie would want to know the answer too.) for the post.

Note Nauci has I believe some natural advantages here. Naucis epeen did not get in the way. (no that is not IMO gender specific, just biased)

but one that thus ended in town read by me.

Gerry I believe not telling the truth: Seemingly
lying
even though they later flipped town
Spoiler: A convoluted process
Gerry started here
In post 2731, gerryoat wrote:VOTE: whiskers
okay you sold me
When I asked which bits sold him he said nothing didn't answer and had already run away to the UCV/Lucky wagon. When I pressed even more he replied.
In post 3123, gerryoat wrote:1. All of it sold me,
When the the truth is in the time he had to read it that cant really be true. It especially cant be true in the stronger sense of he verified my
characterization of Whiskers posting was accurate.

My guess now that his slot flipped town, is he didn't want to admit the truth is that he had, just like scum him would have, sheeped a big shiny case where someone else would eat the blame if it flipped town. And he could claim credit if it flipped scum. An easy game, easy life, kind of thing.

Instead he then doubled down on how certain his UCV read that was again not actually true or consistent with his actual play and voting later in D1.
He did that not because it was
truth
but because he wanted to hit back bysaying. "
all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit
"


Now i cant be certain that is what happened. But please if i push you on a point do NOT do what I described above.

If its cock up, then as
town
tell me the
Truth
like Nauci did. Ok?

If you are
scum
go right on
lying
as you don't have town real story or thought process back there do you.....

At least some questions I plan on asking today may require telling the
truth
. Pls do. When I thought about the questions I was asking (and what possible town and scum explanations i could think of) some of the town ones may require truth telling, of the
nauci
variety. kk.
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Post Post #5082 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:12 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5080, Nero Cain wrote:To clarify, I'm supposed to wait until you post before I respond to 5078?
Yep just did, As i hurried a bit because you were in the thread. I hope it doesnt need errata/EBWOP.
Right before Pressed submit i found I missed out a NOT somewhere. in there.
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Post Post #5083 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:40 pm

Post by Transcend »

3 in 18 makes 0 sense
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Post Post #5084 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:42 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

and 5 in 18 does?!?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5085 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:42 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

*4
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5086 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:54 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@IaI

yesterday you made raising some points
I replied in , and the reply had a number of ? In it.

(Ahh I finally get your 100MB thing, it was
your
100MB of limited international that went quick.)
(IaI nearly said: “I see your other questions but
MY
100 MB of data goes really quick internationally.” I am used to it being my international situation that creates problems via TZ not data limits. So I didn't insert the implied disambiguating
MY
)

So now when you are I assume back in the US. I would like the other questions... in and extras in responded to.

After that is a bunch of stuff on Whiskers Id like to sort out. We've both scum read the slot, but your explanation of your read does not so far make me more convinced my read was right all along.
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Post Post #5087 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:18 pm

Post by Transcend »

3/13 is the usual mini normal set up

This is a large normal ...
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Post Post #5088 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:25 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

you know there's like 3 in 17 all the time.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5089 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:27 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Flairs

Yesterday you made this post
In post 5059, Flairs wrote:Oh ok
that
makes sense now @Axle

UNVOTE:
it
was more of a pressure thing, but
it's
been resolved so there's not much point in keeping
it
up
Some people didn't like that post, neither do I. I suspect however that you may be, town wondering WTF, or scum wondering WTF.
So ….
Wat do.

Your post had comparatively very few words. Please restate what you were thinking Yesterday when you wrote it. Try hard not to state what you think today. Explain where your head was at yesterday. Please do not be succinct.

[..clarity deliberately elided..]

Spoiler: Axle vagueness
yes this post is very purposefully vague. It is called open questioning as opposed to closed questioning.


One useful use of extra words would be precisely define what all the The “
That
” and “
its
” specifically were at the time referring to.

The other people probably should not poke here. What I think is needed first is for Flairs to add more words/clarity.
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Post Post #5090 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:28 pm

Post by Transcend »

Ok this is trivial honestly

Just don't vote unless you're absolutely sure you're about to vote mafia
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Post Post #5091 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:29 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

My original town read on Lucky was a mostly holdover from UC. Claiming scum is WIFOM and every once in awhile there are scum that claim scum. The reason that scum get away with this is because bad/dumb town do it. I had felt like UC's scum claims were the type of Lulzy claims that come from silly town that think they are doing something useful. I had also felt like UC was an easy lynchbait target and I didn't really have an issue with Lucky's first content post like Rhah and Math did.
In post 3954, Nero Cain wrote:
TBF, Lucky has seemed maybe a little lurky lately
but I agree that both cases against him have been crap.
this was my first little side eye against him. I'm sure you'll pull quotes that show me still town reading him (and I was) but yeah...I'm always going to have differing thoughts in my head.

My real concern with Lucky started with his quick hammer of Math. Being on a scum lynch is a tremendous amount of town cred and scum desperately trying to get on and it also had the added benefit of cutting off discussion and ending any mass claim. If Lucky is scum then I think this points somewhat to scum being in the unclaimed trash.
In post 4893, Nero Cain wrote:Luckys quick hammer on Math was terrible and I looked back in my post log. UC was trying to paint me as an Alisae buddy so that could be a thing.
In post 4908, Lucky2u wrote:
In post 4887, Nero Cain wrote:Lucky why didn't you claim yesterday?

I will probably not vote ass.
Didn't need to. I was in full control of the lynch with my hammer, why then add my role, it would only benefit scum to know at that point.

-1 nero
I think it was a perfectly reasonable question to ask why he didn't claim yesterday so I'm not the biggest fan of the slight pushback here.

I also feel like, if his reasoning for not claiming was that scum might shoot at him why he'd claim VT the next day. That seems very inconsistent.
In post 4933, Lucky2u wrote:I got my hammer, if you want my neck, come and get it.
scum threatening to self-hammer?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5092 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:31 pm

Post by Transcend »

Lucky is scum on the mislynch.

I don't think axle is scum and i definitely don't think nero is and there's no way it was all town on that lynch so lucky should be scum.
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Post Post #5093 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:18 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5078, AxleGreaser wrote:
@Nero


Yesterday you had got as far as
In post 5011, Nero Cain wrote:I'm prob in favor of lynching Lucky today but I still Axe's play has been a mess and I'm not really town reading him.
but you were voting me not lucky at that time.
One bit that did not get cleared up and as there was no explicit question fair enough.

How come you were "prob in favor of lynching Lucky today" but not voting him?
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Post Post #5094 (ISO) » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:32 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

oops thought i had posted this damn glad it was in the history buffer. Also glad i reread it to check it was all still there. This post gramatically belongs before the last?
In post 5091, Nero Cain wrote:My original town read on Lucky was a mostly holdover from UC.
Most of my conscious read on the slot, comes as hold over form back then.
I spent a lot of time i might find more towniness, more recently. Up until now that has not been good use of time.
Claiming scum is WIFOM and every once in awhile there are scum that claim scum. The reason that scum get away with this is because bad/dumb town do it. I had felt like UC's scum claims were the type of Lulzy claims that come from silly town that think they are doing something useful.
My read back there was little more specific hence stronger. Having read lot of UCV posts prior to the game, some now in completed games some maybe not yet.
I read UCVs play as an extension, like, but even happier to play than previously. More lolsy, having fun. That felt wrong if I assume he'd just got scum PM in his first large game. Also his reaction to CABD felt town (well town UCV : genuine).
My real concern with Lucky started with his quick hammer of Math. Being on a scum lynch is a tremendous amount of town cred and scum desperately trying to get on and it also had the added benefit of cutting off discussion and ending any mass claim. If Lucky is scum then I think this points somewhat to scum being in the unclaimed trash.
In post 4893, Nero Cain wrote:Luckys quick hammer on Math was terrible and I looked back in my post log. UC was trying to paint me as an Alisae buddy so that could be a thing.
In post 4908, Lucky2u wrote:
In post 4887, Nero Cain wrote:Lucky why didn't you claim yesterday?

I will probably not vote ass.
Didn't need to. I was in full control of the lynch with my hammer, why then add my role, it would only benefit scum to know at that point.

-1 nero
I think it was a perfectly reasonable question to ask why he didn't claim yesterday so I'm not the biggest fan of the slight pushback here.

I also feel like, if his reasoning for not claiming was that scum might shoot at him why he'd claim VT the next day. That seems very inconsistent.
I think... ditto on the push back? (need luckies explanation I think.)
Making yet another VT claim, does theoretically narrow the pool for possible Nks. In general i don't claim without a reason.
If this is his state of mind
In post 4844, Lucky2u wrote:Well frankly if this guy isn't scum I don't even know who else to start with. I've wanted this lynch for too long to give it a chance to dissolve like it did yesterday.
his choices were claim then hammer, or just hammer. I cant see why the latter is not strictly better if he then claims the next day. (Same effect for town scum is made nk with a bit less info known)

In post 4933, Lucky2u wrote:I got my hammer, if you want my neck, come and get it.
scum threatening to self-hammer?
Um that is reaching at least. More like bravado? and yes scum do bravado, so do some townies.

TLDR: You must hate that math hammer a lot for it to move your read that far. Me not so much. But perhaps if i look at it longer (sleep on it) it may as an idea grow on me.
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Post Post #5095 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:22 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5093, AxleGreaser wrote:How come you were "prob in favor of lynching Lucky today" but not voting him?
I wasn't ready to end things yet so I hadn't moved my vote and then time slipped away on me.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5096 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:38 am

Post by Lucky2u »

Axle can I respond yet or do you still need time with Nero?

The lynch pool should be between the two slots that have contributed the least this game imo, Flair's and IAI. Nero is likely the last scum with them, with his muddying of the waters to try and convince us it's not LyLo and his "I'm going to do it but it's not my fault" hammer of the mislynch. I'm now considering axle conftown at this point, more Towny then the Mason that just died. So that leaves whiskers and transcend. I'm not sure what whiskers latest stance is but I think I have some work to do to win transcend over to my side since he is so pro Nero. Care to have a conversation transcend?
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Post Post #5097 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:41 am

Post by Nero Cain »

nice OMGUS there Lucky.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5098 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:43 am

Post by Lucky2u »

Been on you since yesterday nero
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Post Post #5099 (ISO) » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:43 am

Post by Nero Cain »

was still an OMGUS yesterday.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit

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