Mini 1953: XP Mafia (Game Over)

[gerryoat]

Maki what are your reads

[Maki Harukawa]

I think it's fitz and vax

[mastina]

I see it’s possible what they are trying to explain but unlikely.

Why?
Why is it unlikely? Why is a redirector action something you don't think is viable, when there is strong evidence suggesting it existing?

Yes, to some extent this relies on me not being able to pull off a lie of this magnitude, but.

If it is scum manipulation, hats off to them.

Why does this apply to the scum, yet not your thoughts about me? I can't fucking make this shit up as scum. I literally can't. At daystart, I fucking TOLD you. In 1711.

Checking with the mod now.
I blocked havingfiz, but I neither gained XP nor received a message indicating the type of action havingfitz would use last night--which makes no sense. If havingfiz had trained, I'd have gained XP and seen the train; if havingfitz used any action, I should have seen what type of action it was I blocked.

(That post was made after I had messaged the mod for what it's worth.) I fucking said. Right then and there. That I didn't have my fucking result for the night.

And then I got my answer.
Right when the fucking mod was online because the mod read my message and replied.
The back and forth I had with the mod.
The timing.

The situation.

I can pull impressive stunts as scum.

But I can't make THAT level of shit up on the fly. I can bullshit as scum, sure, yeah. But not at the speed of a blitz/marathon game where I am posting at rates/intervals of minutes rather than hours. By which, I mean. Basically. I cannot sustain live interactions of that nature with them being a lie. I have meta there, too, albeit, not meta from recently. Look at how obvscum I was in that game when it came to interacting in real time.

But far more importantly than that.
Far more importantly than that.
Name a single fucking game where I have told a lie as scum which was not moderator-provided. (Outside the newbie queue at least.) I've had a long career as a scum player.

Not once have I told a lie. (Well, actually. EXACTLY once. In all of those games. Once, in my entire career. A singular point of existence.)
I have a guiding principle. The best weapon is the truth. The best policy is honesty. The best lie is the truth. So as scum I don't make up a story about there being a redirector. As scum I don't make shit up about the moderator. As scum I don't say I didn't receive a result when I did. As scum, I don't fucking say that sort of thing.

So if I were scum.

With that kind of record on hand.

Damn fucking straight.
If I were scum, that would be hats-off level of play on my part to have been able to do that when I have a VERY FUCKING STRONG record of being absolutely godawful at it.

But the thing is.

You have to believe that EITHER:
...I am that level of a scum magnificent bitch, who pulled a stunt out of scratch and improvised lie after lie, with timing of the gods in terms of "interacting" with the mod...
...OR:
...I am simply town. Telling the fucking truth. Who had no lie to tell because there was none to be had because I really fucking was interacting with the moderator.

Mastina is the lynch today.

Again, why?
Because of a fucking role result which has reasonable doubt as to its validity?

Not once has a reason OFF OF MY FUCKING PLAY been presented for me being scum.
I've seen plenty of "lol ur scum" from gerryoat in particular (surprise, surprise!) and to a lesser extent havingfitz.
I've seen some doubts about my townness induced by paranoia of me still being alive from other players.

But not once.
Not fucking once.
Have I seen.
An actual fucking reason.
For me to be scum.

Off of my fucking play.
Because there isn't any fucking reason.
It doesn't exist.

Go look for yourself if you don't believe me.
DISCARDING THE ROLE RESULT.
Why do you think I'm scum?
Do you actually have any reason?
Can you find anyone stating a reason I'm scum?

It's a challenge I offer because it's an important fucking thing.

[mastina]

Ok. So 100% at least one of fitz or Mastina is scum.

Technically speaking not a necessity in that THEORETICALLY speaking, it'd be possible to have a scum player redirect me to you without havingfitz involved. Ditto busdriving fitz<->you. (The only option which is 100% scum-fitz would be if havingfitz is a Nexus.) THAT BEING SAID. Yeah it's just fucking fitz-scum, period, end of discussion. I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of possibilities. When we have the probability--nigh certainty--of havingfitz just fucking being scum. So yeah. No fucking shit. It's fitz hands-down.

[gerryoat]

I think it's fitz and vax

why can't you lynch mastina and then shoot one of them then? cause if you lynch the wrong one, and mastina is maf she can just block you and maf will kill for win.

[gerryoat]

please don't TR mastina for these long posts, she's a tryhard scum, i can provide a link to prove it.

[gerryoat]

now i know how you felt about me last game, mastina lol

[mastina]

if there was a redirector, they'd have killed mastina if she was town. no need to kill dreal.

This is once again rats-ass backwards as can be expected of a scum-gerry, in that a scum redirector is precisely why dreal is the best kill: because redirecting a fucking roleblocker essentially turns me into being a fucking scum PR, and also potentially framing someone by virtue of my followeresque upgrade.

Redirecting a roleblocker onto a target of their choice. Why the fuck would they want to kill that?

You just fucking gave the reason why I'd be alive.
Because my role could and would help scum, in exactly a situation like this.

Scum couldn't let Screenplay's track go uncountered.
Scum couldn't let my roleblock go uncountered.
But by redirecting my roleblock onto Screenplay's track...

...They kill two birds with one stone, making my roleblock do their dirty work for them.
And allowing for this very fucking line of reasoning to be used: "Why are you both alive?" To instigate a false 1v1.

[mastina]

That’s 10:30 for me. Getting late.

And we have two fucking weeks for deadline.
We have no need to lynch less than 48 hours after daystart.
When we were given two fucking weeks.

We should be using that time.

And lo and behold, the main proponents for rushing would be...gerryoat and havingfitz.

I imagine that I won't explain my stances, my viewpoints, with perfect clarity.
I imagine that I won't say everything I have to say tonight in spite of my efforts to do so.
I imagine that you'll have doubts, you'll have questions, you'll have things you want to talk about.

And those are things which absolutely should fucking happen.
They won't if you rush them. So you don't need to solve things tonight, as in, literally real life day. You can sleep on it. And then sleep on it again for that matter if you'd like. And again, and again, and again times like ten. Before needing to make a decision. All the while. More information will be gained and there will be more for you see, more for you to analyze, more for you to actually fucking think about.

And I think I've raised some damn good reasons for why you should have SIGNIFICANT pause on thinking of lynching me.
I have a strong established history of not making shit up--a prerequisite for me to be scum bullshitting this game.
I have a strongly-established towngame here. Jae was obvtown when they were in the game. I was obvtown when I had Jae in the game. And not once has this been seriously questioned.
I have no reasons presented outside of the role result for me to be scum.
I have given good evidence which strongly suggests my claim of the role result to not be condemning holds water.
I have shown you evidence that havingfitz and gerryoat are scumfucks using the same basic methodology. Using the same process to push the same idea: that I am scum, without allowing for critical thought.

And I'm not even fucking done yet. I'm not done with posting. I haven't presented my havingfitz case yet. But already you have all of that.

[mastina]

I don't know why scum doesn't kill a tracker/claimed role blocker is my big worry over someone like dreal

Again, self-evident if one nullifies the other.
If scum can make my roleblock go to the tracker, then why the fuck would they need to kill either of us? Instead, they can just off someone else, in this case dreal.

[mastina]

I upgraded last night.

Oh? Last night you say? As in, N5?
Not on D5 as you had previously claimed?

[mastina]

I think it's fitz and vax

This, by the way.
Is why I'm voting havingfitz rather than gerry.
I can convince Maki that gerry's scum...

...But in order for me to convince Maki that gerry's scum, first I have to have the scumbuddy flipped because I can't convince Maki that gerryoat's scum

while there are still two scum alive

.

We have common ground in both knowing that havingfitz is scum.
That's why I'm voting him.
Obviously I would

prefer

a gerryoat lynch.
But as long as Maki won't lynch there, I can't. But Maki WILL lynch havingfitz, so.

Not ideal, obviously.
But a scum lynch is a scum lynch and havingfitz is scum and with havingfitz flipped scum, Maki will have more reason to trust me. So it's a common reference point, as it were. A compromise. Not ideal, but the option which I most believe in. Especially since I think havingfitz is ten times more likely to be the redirector-role than gerryoat. (It being gerryoat requires either gerry to have gotten extra XP OR for him to have started with that role. But havingfitz could have feasibly upgraded much, much sooner since we have no proof he used a rolecop.)

[mastina]

please don't TR mastina for these long posts, she's a tryhard scum, i can provide a link to prove it.

Yeah, sure. Effort != alignment. I'm a tryhard scum, will freely admit that, just like I'm tryhard town.

...HOWEVER.

What you SHOULD fucking do.

Is read the fucking CONTENT of those posts.

Because the CONTENT of those posts.
Is where I prove my fucking points.
They absolutely

are

alignment-indicative and gerryoat doesn't want you reading them because he fucking knows that if you did in fact spend the time reading them, you'd figure out that I am in fact town.

[Something_Smart]

VC 6.2

[Lynch]

mastina (2)- havingfitz, gerryoat

Not voting (4)- mastina, Vaxkiller, Srceenplay, Maki Harukawa

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch, block or end day.

(expired on 2017-12-04 03:00:00)

Mod notes:

[Srceenplay]

The posts actually feel fluffy to me.

And

If you think fitz is redirecting why is he considered not the ideal lynch?

[Maki Harukawa]

I think fitz is the redirector or I would entertain gerry but

vt turning into driver ?????????

[mastina]

Okay so I think the easiest way to explain this is for you to read havingfitz's iso from the start, paying attention to his mentions of gerry. You should also look at how his reads have developed. Also damning: havingfitz when catching up made no mention of Ghostlin. None. Nadda. Zilch whatsoever. He didn't mention the dead scum. His interactions with gerry were neutral to positive. (Up to and including chainsaw defending gerry by going after Maki.)

You should also pay attention to his read progression on players...or rather, the lack thereof. His reads were for the whole game static, stale, and unmoving. He didn't give anything in the way of actual game content, and when he did, he was doing a bunch of shade-casting. He cast shade on Assembler. He cast shade on EeveeLution Army while avoiding actually being on the wagon.

He does change reads...but he does so with zero reasoning, suddenly and abruptly. Look at his reads here. Only after I revealed my block does he produce this, where he has me as suspicious. And all the while, he was also casting suspicion on Screenplay. It's as if he already knew there was going to be a situation between Screenplay and I, before either of us had fucking claimed. See as far back as this.

There's also the classical "good job" scumtell which I can't believe I missed before.

My GOD I wish I had Jae in here.
Jae is like a thousand fucking times better at writing cases than I am.
And I signed up to play this game with them for damn fucking good reason.
I really can't explain it better than this even though I know this isn't nearly good enough, but.
havingfitz is just scum.

[gerryoat]

I would entertain gerry but

LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS.

[Maki Harukawa]

VOTE: fitz

<3 this is wwe but this time we're really town

[mastina]

The posts actually feel fluffy to me.

Read them don't fucking skim them.

I realize I am naturally verbose and I make long walls.

Fuck. that. shit.

Read the whole fucking posts.

In full detail.

Every bit of them and digest every section.

Because that's the only way you're ever going to get anything productive out of my posting.

I don't write my posts so that some random shit in it can be written off as something unimportant.

I write my fucking posts where every detail is important.

If you think fitz is redirecting why is he considered not the ideal lynch?

Because of the strength of my scumread.
I am 99.999% sure gerryoat is scum.
I am only like 95-97.5% sure havingfitz is scum.

Dead scum is dead scum. I would prefer to lynch the player with the HIGHEST chance of being scum.

I do in fact think havingfitz is the scum redirector.
But I could be wrong.
It could be gerryoat.
Or fuck. It could be Vaxkiller as unlikely as that is to me.
I FEEL that havingfitz is the redirector. It's what my gut tells me. What my instincts say. What I think is the case, what my intuition has thought about as being the case.

But I don't KNOW havingfitz is the redirector.

I DO fucking KNOW that gerryoat is scum.
Which is why, ideally, in better circumstances, he'd be the lynch.

Basically, it's a numbering/confidence thing.
Lynching scum redirector > lynching scum > lynching town.
gerryoat scum > havingfitz scum.
Lynching aiming for highest chance of scum > lynching aiming for redirector.
So gerryoat is a better lynch to guarantee dead scum.

I'd take a guaranteed-goon flip any day over a possibly-scum-PR flip.

But this delves into mafia theory. You can disagree if you want, but this is a debate which would clearly be our personal opinions--our personal stances, our personal feelings across games, something to discuss and debate in mafia discussion. (In fact, that actually might be a good subject of debate: whether it's better to aim for the higher-chance-of-being-scum, or to aim for the higher-chance-of-being-scum-PR-but-lower-chance-of-being-scum.) In that it's not alignment indicative because my stance here would be identical regardless of alignment and I imagine so too would your stance be identical. (Can you honestly say otherwise?)

[mastina]

vt turning into driver ?????????

It wouldn't be a VT, it'd be a scum role.

[mastina]

VOTE: fitz
<3 this is wwe but this time we're really town

<3

[Maki Harukawa]

vt turning into driver ?????????

It wouldn't be a VT, it'd be a scum role.

Gerry is vt I rolecopped him

[Maki Harukawa]

I would entertain gerry but

LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS.

I'd vig shoot you yeah

[Maki Harukawa]

Only reason I'd prob vig vax first is you know my exact role and me not dying is ???