Mini Normal 1964 - Hell Is 56k Dialup - Endgame!

[Katyusha]

hey keychain you might not have to write a case at all :/

how is espe not town


now keep in mind having shit reads is not ai LMAOOOO

it's not, but in this fashion it feels like trying to dismantle a possible townbloc

but this is why i want some semblance of clarity when he catches up

Because i don't fos shad

not to be a bitch but

y

[northsidegal]

will attend to this later! nsg asked for townreads and explanations and i can give one of those transcend keychain wavemode maybe dunnstral espeonage? did espeonage replace fajita

the explanations are the more important part of that equation so i'd still appreciate those, but this is still useful.


for all of you voting everyone else, why isn't dunnstral the better lynch? while everyone else hasn't even been putting forward the pretense of scumhunting or playing the game, dunnstral's gut reads and votes seem to suspiciously align with the popular wagons at the time. is there some meta aspect that i'm missing here?

[northsidegal]

nsg, lol

?

Lol

*Why EE

I can't say his posts aren't doing shit because they are, he's aware when he enters the game, they're just deliberately not doing nothing which is pretty scummy

Same with Dunnstral

schadd is also a non entity but he's also wavy so I'm fine with having my read be dynamic there
schadd is more or less doing the same thing he was doing the whole game he's just not posting him now which is why katyusha kind of confuses me

I have unfortunately been delaying getting into this game

this is all he's said lmao

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

[Transcend]

Idk why i don't, i just don't.

There's only one line of his ididn't like

The rest r ok

[northsidegal]

woah, i was just reviewing a bit more and this jumps out to me a lot. katayusha, can you explain your scumread on firaja? where does it come from?

i think i'll have a lot more to say after you answer.

He seemed hesitant to commit to any stance or point any hard fingers at anyone. That wishy washiness i feel usually comes from new scum who don't really want to stand out but want to at least seem like they're contributing. I tried poking him with my last question to see if I can get him to give a stance on something besides the cy/UC interactions he was focusing on for most of the game.

I'm going to try to start on a clean slate though with your slot since the break I accidentally took is kind of throwing me off.

i see this tell a lot and i'm really not a fan of it - sure, hesitance can come from scum scared to take a stance, but it just as easily comes from people having a hard time forming clear reads. if you were going to make the point that someone's contributions were fabricated or that they were deliberately attempting to put forward the image of contributions without actually doing so, that would be a perfectly valid point, but i'm not sure that's what you're doing. when i was looking through your iso your push on firaja caught my attention a ton because it really seemed like you just jumped on him for the rvs post and then kept pushing him for just that, even though to me what he said made total sense. from your recent posts i'm getting a bit more of a town sense, though - i was waiting to make a case from 560 but that's mostly gone now.

schadd can i get like a readlist from you because your trajectory feels all over the place to me from a quick iso

VOTE: schadd

i'll give nsg a chance to engage and do contenty things that arent walls since i still cant stomach this game's walls fsr

(probably bc im not that into this game sorry) - schadd's voting history is pretty crappy though and im not getting much thought process here

EE is a valid fos imo but schadd is the same but better (scummier?)

i'd say i'm fully in this game now even if i still haven't gotten around to wall iso-ing everyone yet - feel free to engage. the same goes for keychain, who i believe said something along the same lines.

[northsidegal]

Idk why i don't, i just don't.

There's only one line of his ididn't like

The rest r ok

i know it's not really your style, but mind explaining the cy/espeonage vote? from your iso i think it's something to do with the associatives with my slot, but i'm not sure what it is exactly. i guess this goes for anyone else voting there, too.

[northsidegal]

@keychain, can you explain your reads progression on cy? it seems like you came out of an early game interaction townreading him but there's about a 350 post gap where he doesn't come up at all until 517, where he's at the bottom of the list. what happened?

Could also do cy

Why? I liked his response for the most part.

i have problems with your cy progression basically
but im conflicted about a thing rn

Is this a thing you're planning to share with the class?


@UCV: who is scum?

PEdit: damn it I was asking that Zach

Yes yes your Joda wagon died and you are sad so now you want cy instead. I'm thinking.

I'm having a sit down to work things out because I think I'm losing track of threads

I got through most of the players but I need to stop for the night.

Right now, from town to scum:
Firaja
wavemode
Katyusha
Havo
Dunnstral
UC Voyager
Everyone Else
cytheflyguy

Leaves Transcend, Zach, Joda and schadd for tomorrow. I'll have more interesting things to say when I've finished the rest of the playerlist, hopefully.

I have learned that scum tend to contribute more because

most people prefer to play scum.

(bolding mine)

I missed this the first time round. I just... ahahahaha is this really true? I certainly don't prefer scum Do you have any sources for this bold claim, UCV?

[Zachstralkita]

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

i don't put priority on scum
but the outside possibility exists that dunnstral is just being a fuck nugget. which is something that's actually liable to have happened


i dont care tho id vote either way

[Everyone Else]

im getting voted on?

[Everyone Else]

sorry thanksgiving week and all

[Everyone Else]

will try my very best to catch up by tonight? but ugh ultra moon tho

[KidAmn]

Vote Count Eleven, Or "I Should Probably Stop Making Snarky, But Entirely Unhelpful Comments On The Game State And Get Back To Providing That Sweet, Sweet Flavour..."

Everyone Else (3): Havo, Zachstralkita, Transcend
Espeonage (2): Keychain, Dunnstral
Schadd (2): Katyusha, Srceenplay
Srceenplay (1): Everyone Else
Transcend (1): wavemode
Jodaxq (1): Schadd

Not Voting (3): northsidegal, Jodaxq, Espeonage

Day 1 Will End With Something Hopefully A Lot Better Written Than These Vote Counts Are, Or In (expired on 2017-11-28 21:00:00).

With Thirteen Alive, Seven Votes Are Required To Lynch.

[Dunnstral]

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

i don't put priority on scum
but the outside possibility exists that dunnstral is just being a fuck nugget. which is something that's actually liable to have happened


i dont care tho id vote either way

huh

[Havo]

im getting voted on?

I really don’t know why we aren’t lynching this?

There is no kind of consensus.

[northsidegal]

im getting voted on?

I really don’t know why we aren’t lynching this?

There is no kind of consensus.

why that over this?

so what made you choose ee over dunnstral?

i don't put priority on scum
but the outside possibility exists that dunnstral is just being a fuck nugget. which is something that's actually liable to have happened


i dont care tho id vote either way

huh

[Keychain]

i'd say i'm fully in this game now even if i still haven't gotten around to wall iso-ing everyone yet - feel free to engage. the same goes for keychain, who i believe said something along the same lines.

Why no vote? Also, I don't think you've given your read on the Cy/Espe slot, I'd like to hear that.

Regarding Dunnstral vs EE: For me, Dunnstral is null. Voting there is literally a lurker-lynch. It looks a lot like he's only skimming a couple of recent posts each time he says anything, from his response to me and his vote on Espe. Your 701 is seriously weird. Dunnstral is an awful lynch for today and I'm sure you can do better than that.
EE is also lurking but his actions have been considerably more scummy. Every time someone votes him he appears and splashes around a bit. It doesn't seem like uninvested town, who I don't think would be so bothered by a bit of pressure. 462 and 506 were particularly bad as posts that looked like he was trying to exist in the game but contributed exactly nothing.

What benefit do you get out of trying to equalise the two?

VOTE: Espeonage

gut scummy

but why must you do this to the wagon

I'm

on

@keychain, can you explain your reads progression on cy? it seems like you came out of an early game interaction townreading him but there's about a 350 post gap where he doesn't come up at all until 517, where he's at the bottom of the list. what happened?

This can serve as my Cy case, which I promised I'd do last night but ah well.

517 was made after reviewing the ISOs of the players listed, which is when the change mostly occurred. However you've also missed signs of my townread wavering in 209.

Several things that I initially townread him for came across really scummy on reread. For example, I have no idea what I was thinking when I unvoted in 110 and said I "particularly liked point A" in 107. On reflection, the point takes some severe mental gymnastics. For reference:

A) My train of thought was not, "If I can trust this person, and Transcend has a higher than normal chance of being scum, then he should be prodded because he is more than likely scum in this game."

It was, "If I can trust this person, and Transcend has a higher than normal chance of being scum, he would probably have a higher chance of not playing because he is scum and does not want to play the same role once again, as he was the only person to not confirm." The reason I fell for the joke was because the statistics relied on behavior, especially the part about if someone replaced him. It's flimsy logic, yeah, but if you read my posts, I did not 100% agree with UC, I was just talking statistics so I could anticipate behavior.

Like ??? how did I townread this. The main problem I had with him was on him not reading the players in the game, and this is just a terribly convoluted excuse to have not been doing that.

The early Transcend meta thing still rings really false to me, though 18 suggests it really is a genuine misunderstanding because it looks like he thought that Transcend was less likely to stay in games where he's town so I'm conflicted over that one.

Then overly defensive in 61/72 and easily persuaded to vote by Katya in 76. 96 A) is a really bad excuse, in that from an early game post he decided to throw out everything he'd ever known about mafia to engage in some meta speculation about a player he didn't know not confirming for alignment-related reasons because... he thought everyone was going to be doing this?

I still dislike the solid townread on me in 107 considering how unsure he seems to be of other reads, and renewing it in 143 comes across really appease-y.
381 "been meaning to move my vote somewhere else" doesn't look like a town thought process - his vote was on a scumread of his as I understand it (Firaja) and it looks like he cares an awful lot about what he looks like.
400's "Like...isn't that questionable logic? Like even more questionable than my original blunder" is pretty icky, because he's acknowledging that he looks scummy but is trying to shift people scumreading him for it onto Transcend.

Those are the reasons he was at the bottom of my list. At this point I'm finding it hard to see his actions as town-motivated.


@Zach 692:

[Everyone Else]

i'd say i'm fully in this game now even if i still haven't gotten around to wall iso-ing everyone yet - feel free to engage. the same goes for keychain, who i believe said something along the same lines.

Why no vote? Also, I don't think you've given your read on the Cy/Espe slot, I'd like to hear that.

Regarding Dunnstral vs EE: For me, Dunnstral is null. Voting there is literally a lurker-lynch. It looks a lot like he's only skimming a couple of recent posts each time he says anything, from his response to me and his vote on Espe. Your 701 is seriously weird. Dunnstral is an awful lynch for today and I'm sure you can do better than that.
EE is also lurking but his actions have been considerably more scummy. Every time someone votes him he appears and splashes around a bit. It doesn't seem like uninvested town, who I don't think would be so bothered by a bit of pressure. 462 and 506 were particularly bad as posts that looked like he was trying to exist in the game but contributed exactly nothing.

What benefit do you get out of trying to equalise the two?

VOTE: Espeonage

gut scummy

but why must you do this to the wagon

I'm

on

@keychain, can you explain your reads progression on cy? it seems like you came out of an early game interaction townreading him but there's about a 350 post gap where he doesn't come up at all until 517, where he's at the bottom of the list. what happened?

This can serve as my Cy case, which I promised I'd do last night but ah well.

517 was made after reviewing the ISOs of the players listed, which is when the change mostly occurred. However you've also missed signs of my townread wavering in 209.

Several things that I initially townread him for came across really scummy on reread. For example, I have no idea what I was thinking when I unvoted in 110 and said I "particularly liked point A" in 107. On reflection, the point takes some severe mental gymnastics. For reference:

A) My train of thought was not, "If I can trust this person, and Transcend has a higher than normal chance of being scum, then he should be prodded because he is more than likely scum in this game."

It was, "If I can trust this person, and Transcend has a higher than normal chance of being scum, he would probably have a higher chance of not playing because he is scum and does not want to play the same role once again, as he was the only person to not confirm." The reason I fell for the joke was because the statistics relied on behavior, especially the part about if someone replaced him. It's flimsy logic, yeah, but if you read my posts, I did not 100% agree with UC, I was just talking statistics so I could anticipate behavior.

Like ??? how did I townread this. The main problem I had with him was on him not reading the players in the game, and this is just a terribly convoluted excuse to have not been doing that.

The early Transcend meta thing still rings really false to me, though 18 suggests it really is a genuine misunderstanding because it looks like he thought that Transcend was less likely to stay in games where he's town so I'm conflicted over that one.

Then overly defensive in 61/72 and easily persuaded to vote by Katya in 76. 96 A) is a really bad excuse, in that from an early game post he decided to throw out everything he'd ever known about mafia to engage in some meta speculation about a player he didn't know not confirming for alignment-related reasons because... he thought everyone was going to be doing this?

I still dislike the solid townread on me in 107 considering how unsure he seems to be of other reads, and renewing it in 143 comes across really appease-y.
381 "been meaning to move my vote somewhere else" doesn't look like a town thought process - his vote was on a scumread of his as I understand it (Firaja) and it looks like he cares an awful lot about what he looks like.
400's "Like...isn't that questionable logic? Like even more questionable than my original blunder" is pretty icky, because he's acknowledging that he looks scummy but is trying to shift people scumreading him for it onto Transcend.

Those are the reasons he was at the bottom of my list. At this point I'm finding it hard to see his actions as town-motivated.


@Zach 692:

not really lurking, been busy. hey let me help.

@ MOD, I wanna replace out. Very busy right now and not invested in this game, sorry :/.

[Keychain]

ah sorry to see you go.

[northsidegal]

responding to the first part of this separate from the second.

i'd say i'm fully in this game now even if i still haven't gotten around to wall iso-ing everyone yet - feel free to engage. the same goes for keychain, who i believe said something along the same lines.

Why no vote? Also, I don't think you've given your read on the Cy/Espe slot, I'd like to hear that.

i'm waiting on schadd. cy had a really awkward rvs and nothing else he did really stood out to me. nothing espe has done has looked particularly townie to me, either - i'd be willing to lynch there.

Regarding Dunnstral vs EE: For me, Dunnstral is null. Voting there is literally a lurker-lynch. It looks a lot like he's only skimming a couple of recent posts each time he says anything, from his response to me and his vote on Espe. Your 701 is seriously weird. Dunnstral is an awful lynch for today and I'm sure you can do better than that.
EE is also lurking but his actions have been considerably more scummy. Every time someone votes him he appears and splashes around a bit. It doesn't seem like uninvested town, who I don't think would be so bothered by a bit of pressure. 462 and 506 were particularly bad as posts that looked like he was trying to exist in the game but contributed exactly nothing.

i'm not really sure why there's such a huge divide between the two to you, and to me dunn's actions seem a lot scummier. i don't think only responding to posts about you is a scumtell, at least when it comes to lurkers. i say this because there have been games i've been in that i've found it hard to get into and i find myself only responding to either comments about me or questions directed towards me. dunnstral, on the other hand, only seems to hop in to vote the consensus wagon. i'm not saying either are the best lynch today - what i'm saying is that the people who want an everyone else lynch should really be looking at dunnstral instead.

What benefit do you get out of trying to equalise the two?

why are you assuming that i'm scum here? i'm really not sure what to make of this comment. i would think confbias but you don't seem to show that anywhere else. why do you assume that i have some ulterior motive or gain some benefit out of examining dunnstral, as opposed to it being my actual thoughts and a genuine attempt to get into this game?

[northsidegal]

by the way, nice hat!

[northsidegal]

addendum to the last non-hat related post:

VOTE: Espeonage

gut scummy

but why must you do this to the wagon

I'm

on

it seems here that you even recognize that dunnstral's hop-ons are scummy - why place such a huge divide between the two?

[Transcend]

Christ

Play the fucking game you sign up for

It is absolutely miserable for both alignments to have to deal with extreme amounts of replace outs.

Jeez

[Espeonage]

That wasn't what that post seemed to be getting at though? it seemed like it was saying a lot of people were acting scummy?

p-edit; It is day 1, but you just seemingly U-Turned on a read because of one post? which isn't that different than the other posts that Joda made?

Uh. Just because I vote someone doesn’t mean I hard SR them.

I agreed with Trans that Joda was a good candidate for pressure.
Since there wasn’t much else cooking at the time.

I liked her response because I can definitely relate to it.

So now for me it’s on to look somewhere else for now.

The words.

They don't match the play.

You are saying the right things, but the actions they don't back it up. Your pressure vote lasted a whole half a page.

[Espeonage]

That wasn't what that post seemed to be getting at though? it seemed like it was saying a lot of people were acting scummy?

p-edit; It is day 1, but you just seemingly U-Turned on a read because of one post? which isn't that different than the other posts that Joda made?

Uh. Just because I vote someone doesn’t mean I hard SR them.

I agreed with Trans that Joda was a good candidate for pressure.
Since there wasn’t much else cooking at the time.

I liked her response because I can definitely relate to it.

So now for me it’s on to look somewhere else for now.

Fair enough, I like your response and now you've explained it I understand where you are coming from about your vote.

Also maybe I misinterpreted that post but I thought the post meant a lot of people were acting suspicious is where my question came from about it.

Newbie town or both scum? Leaning the former.

[Espeonage]

@Havo: Someone feeling out of step with the game is not necessarily scum, I agree, but it's also not necessarily town. Can feel it as either alignment though I think it's more likely to come from scum. Your vote on and leap off comes across bad if that's the basis. Apart from Jo, can you summarise your townreads for me?


@Jo: do your thing! Poke at things you don't understand, or focus on the things you

can

parse. The way you went from cy to UCV shortly after I did unnerves me - was my read influencing you?

Do you scumread Transcend?

pedit u dont like any of his posts but hes town?

It was apparently a bad joke.

uhh which bit was the joke?

tbh I feel like I'm missing something in this game. There's a lot of strange interactions.

iReAlLyDoNoTlIKeThIsPoStInThEsLiGhTeSTbItGuYsIsItJuStMe

No I agree, also are you biased against phone posters because I had to turn my phone sideways to read this

also keychain cant be read with vibes most likely

Huh okay I don't know why you'd think this. Normally it's logic that leads people to townread me when I'm scum. In that case - how should I read you? At the moment I'm leaning scum.
Also your schadd read gives me nothing.

If Key is scum, they are playing really well. Note to self to watch this slot on like day 3.