Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

[cytheflyguy]

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

Okay so if this isn't debate club then what is this? The entire point of the game is to figure out who's lying. I can't pull a Phoenix Wright atm so I'm doing the next best thing.

[LaserGuy]

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

Because the reasoning in cy's response is only true if he is Town. Scum!cy obviously knows whether or not scum would be on the wagon and could easily prove it if he really wanted to.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not particularly scumreading Comm right now; I've played with him before and he is known for being a big-dick type of player, especially when analysing vote-counts.

My first serious vote will be going to a player who has had a very passive opening; in 27 he's trying to look busy, 41 is a useless post where he's just echoing what's already been said without directly involving himself with the Comm wagon, 42 is just an inexplicably easy townread.

Spoiler:

so rvs i sover, happy to get a wagon going on archwing

How is RVS over?
Why Arch in particular?

cytheflyguy is Town.

Second.

Comm, I'd also like to see some rationale for your wagon analysis. Seemed kind of off. I would consider it a possibility if you said there's at least one scum in Arch's wagon, but that's not super helpful to begin with.

... that just makes it seem like you picked any of the names without pattern and said scum are in there. It makes it look super lazy since there is another wagon at 2 as well so you just picked the top 2 wagons in the VC, by position in format not by vote count amount.

FoS Commknight.

Leaning town on this too.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Impede

[LaserGuy]

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

Because the reasoning in cy's response is only true if he is Town. Scum!cy obviously knows whether or not scum would be on the wagon and could easily prove it if he really wanted to.

Just to elaborate... the fact that it apparently didn't occur to cy that this would be the case is why I feel this is likely coming from Town. More of dumb tell than anything else.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

Because the reasoning in cy's response is only true if he is Town. Scum!cy obviously knows whether or not scum would be on the wagon and could easily prove it if he really wanted to.

Just to elaborate... the fact that it apparently didn't occur to cy that this would be the case is why I feel this is likely coming from Town. More of dumb tell than anything else.

So how do you think he would have answered it as scum?

[CommKnight]

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

^ I echo this, realize there are 4 mafia in this game. They're going to be desperate to seem townie and cause mislynches from the get-go, in fact they need at least 4 mislynches to survive and all we need to do is get 5 right town reads to stop mafia. (Any town that gets hard-townread cannot be lynched and therefore is a non-target for a mislynch.).

This game is going to really test the mafia because joining forces too early = certain loss.

[LaserGuy]

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

Because the reasoning in cy's response is only true if he is Town. Scum!cy obviously knows whether or not scum would be on the wagon and could easily prove it if he really wanted to.

Just to elaborate... the fact that it apparently didn't occur to cy that this would be the case is why I feel this is likely coming from Town. More of dumb tell than anything else.

So how do you think he would have answered it as scum?

I would have put it as null if there was a comment to the effect of "Only scum know the answer to this".

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

I had a huge post. I accidentally closed it. Dang it.

[Luca Blight]

Whether he is Town or scum, saying

"I cannot prove or disprove you being right or wrong"

still rings true - as Town you can't prove it because you don't know everyone's alignment, and as scum you can't prove it because to do so would result in outing your scum team.

If you want to base a read on that then fine, but I won't be doing so.

[CultOfAthena]

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

Okay so if this isn't debate club then what is this? The entire point of the game is to figure out who's lying. I can't pull a Phoenix Wright atm so I'm doing the next best thing.

You're making the mistake of assuming that people who are incorrect are lying, and that those people are also scum. Townies can commit logical fallacies just as easily as scum can.

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

Because the reasoning in cy's response is only true if he is Town. Scum!cy obviously knows whether or not scum would be on the wagon and could easily prove it if he really wanted to.

What? Elaborate on this - cy's 39 seems entirely separated from his alignment.

[Luca Blight]

Athena, you've been questioning the reads of others but do you have any yourself?

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Commknight

While the town reads on Cy are... unsettling... after his response to Comm, Comm still reads as the scum in all this to me. I am going to ride this wagon today.

[Luca Blight]

Lucky, I want to know what changed since fos'ing Comm in 34 to cause you to vote him in your last post?

[Lucky2u]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

[CultOfAthena]

Athena, you've been questioning the reads of others but do you have any yourself?

Suspicion on those eager to write cy off as town - seems like alignment-informed players eager to insert themselves into a townblock. Early scumread on mozamis for this little bit of LAMIST, among other reasons:

if everyone who is town could be really town, that would be great since no Nk's means we can make it hard for scum.
yes, i've read the wiki lol

VOTE: Mozamis

[CultOfAthena]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

What do you think is the truth of the scenario? What was comm's actual intent or motivation?

[Lucky2u]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

What do you think is the truth of the scenario? What was comm's actual intent or motivation?

That he wanted to hide his initial "there is scum in these random names I drew from a hat" post that started this whole interaction

[Lucky2u]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

What do you think is the truth of the scenario? What was comm's actual intent or motivation?

That he wanted to hide

the scuminess

his initial "there is scum in these random names I drew from a hat" post that started this whole interaction

this should probably be implied, but fixing anyway

[Luca Blight]

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

You're taking that out of context; he was replying to 37 where he was being accused of looking for a reaction.

Do you have any counter reasons to my logic? It's only page 2 and I am making early reads to help my own process with it. I could keep it to myself or I can make it public. Fine by me either way really.

I can't counter what's not there. It's not what you said but the lack thereof. This game is a group effort. If you make a statement like that, please share with the rest of the class your reasoning.

Otherwise, it looks like random fishing for a reaction.

So if I were fishing for a reaction, how do you think you'd fare in that department?

Also am I wrong? Can you prove it?

[Lucky2u]

No i'm not. He wants to be coy about it in his 38 but that's what he wants to show that he was doing all along.

[CultOfAthena]

@cy
Why did you vote Comm in 35?

[Luca Blight]

What's to say he wasn't looking for reactions, though?

Most things done in and around RVS are for the purpose of gauging reactions in order to move the game forward.

[Sesq]

... that just makes it seem like you picked any of the names without pattern and said scum are in there. It makes it look super lazy since there is another wagon at 2 as well so you just picked the top 2 wagons in the VC, by position in format not by vote count amount.

FoS Commknight.

He's lazy for saying scum are on big wagons...


what?

This is so stupid, that all I can say is what

So if I were fishing for a reaction, how do you think you'd fare in that department?

Also am I wrong? Can you prove it?

I fully realize I'm taking the bait, but I'm not one of the people you targeted so that holds no water, sadly.

And that's the thing. I cannot prove or disprove you being right or wrong. I'm simply pretty sure you just took a wild guess and now that someone is asking for reasoning you're trying to back yourself into a corner.

Your argument is a logical fallacy. Specifically Ad Ignorantum, where you are acting as if something is true simply because it has not been proven to be false. Of course I can't prove you to be wrong, regardless of role. Because of that, you would probably say something along the lines of "Well if it can't be proven false, then it must be true", when, in fact, that's not how logical arguments work, I'm afraid.

All I'm asking for is reasons, my dude. You looked suspicious for what you did and I asked for proof to back it up.

M-MUH FALLACIES

apparently thoughtless complaining is now a townread.... eye Roll....

VOTE: cythefly

I must agree with the assessment cythefly is town.

On the other hand, wherever do you(Commknight) get the logic that of Arch and my wagons, there must be scum? What about mozamis's or sesq's wagons? Or what about lucca261? Any of these voters (or lack thereof) could be scum. Are you suggesting that the current top 2 wagons have scum? Because that's what it looks like.

If we're looking at wagons, I would also like to mention the wagonee. Yes, I realize I'm including myself, but that's because I'm on the list of your wagon. Notice how you never mention archwing. Is he possible scum, or are you suggesting he must be innocent as he has such a large voting popularity?

If we were trying to look at wagons, then we need to look at all of them, as well as the players not voting. You should've looked at each and every wagon, and try to figure out the motives for each vote or non-vote, and see if that motive seems scummy. As it stands, your tunnel vision looks far more scummy than if you waited to do a read. I mean, for God's sake, it's post 31. Yes, I realize you could have some reads, but from what? We were barely out of RVS. (I digress about the first statement, as most motives were RVS)

Your assessment just seems... fluffy. I'd like to see more of your motives for such an early read and why you scumread specifically those two wagons.

FoS for now on Comm.

YES BECAUSE SCUM ARE USUALLY ON BIGGER WAGONS OR SO HE CLEARLY BELIEVES

this whole wagon is "i'm voting this guy because i can't read subtext." this is really PISSING me the OFF

he never mentioned archwing.. OR YOU. he specifically said "2 scum on the wagons", not the subject of.

until he made that post, it was rvs, mostly. people arent going to have their "logical" positions yet. its like "well, scum might be using these bigger wagons as an excuse to exert some early influence."

and oh my god. tunnelvision. LEARN WHAT THE TERMS MEAN BEFORE YOU USE THEM PLEASE

you're trying to back yourself into a corner.

Did you even proofread your post before saying this?

Can you answer the question? You've been asked for a response, and all we get is more fluff. I'm not going to vote you yet, but I'm dangerously close.

Answer the question or I will vote you. (And I don't like voting without insufficient proof.)

"you didnt respond to my terrible argument? you must be scum!"

I'm not a fan of the cy townreads at all. It doesn't take a townie to point out logical fallacies. Trying to turn a game of mafia into debate club is actually a scumread for me - scum's knowledge of the game won't affect their posting at all if all they're doing is arguing logic or theory.

Impede, zaraki, LG, mind explaining what makes cy town in your eyes?

THANKS

Luca is spot on. Thanks luca.

Athena, you've been questioning the reads of others but do you have any yourself?

Suspicion on those eager to write cy off as town - seems like alignment-informed players eager to insert themselves into a townblock. Early scumread on mozamis for this little bit of LAMIST, among other reasons:

if everyone who is town could be really town, that would be great since no Nk's means we can make it hard for scum.
yes, i've read the wiki lol

VOTE: Mozamis

thats pretty in character for them. not going to oppose you though

his 38, claiming to be looking for reactions is scum garbage

What do you think is the truth of the scenario? What was comm's actual intent or motivation?

That he wanted to hide

the scuminess

his initial "there is scum in these random names I drew from a hat" post that started this whole interaction

this should probably be implied, but fixing anyway

how is that scummy?

So, in conclusion:

wagoning comm is STUPID
luca is TOWN

[Sesq]

keep in mind i was getting really angry at the wagon before i read any later posts, and i didnt really want to go back and delete it. because that would disrupt The Flow

[Lucky2u]

What's to say he wasn't looking for reactions, though?

Most things done in and around RVS are for the purpose of gauging reactions in order to move the game forward.

No Luca, just no.

I legit do not know where you think this wifom line of questioning is going to go. I mean, by this logic, "what's to say" (which is just a fancy way of saying what if) I'm a sentient cow that learned to type and play mafia?

Comm did a thing that I interpreted as scummy. He was questioned about it, and then did another thing I interpreted as scummy. You are not doing a good job of convincing me it wasn't by saying "Well... what if it wasn't?"