Micro 745: Beyond Death [Endgame]

[Chip Butty]

First!

VOTE: Chip Get off my shoulder.

Ah, Chip/shoulder jokes. They never get old.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells because we need less cowbell.

Now

there's

a joke that never gets old.

[Chip Butty]

Why aren't yall helping to wagon the guy who planted his RVS vote on a player who is replacing out and then disappeared from the thread?

Maybe they all dig on cowbell jokes.

Yeah, I did miss it, but RVS, so whatever. I need time to think up a new witty remark for my replacement vote...

[Chip Butty]

In your opinion what's the purpose of RVS?

It's to vote for whoever you can think of the wittiest remark about, and then sit back and wait for peeps to start building cases out of thin air lol.

[Chip Butty]

Why do you feel the need to wait for other people to start building cases? What's wrong with you being the one to get the game rolling?

Dunno, doc. It's probably down to something from my childhood.

[Chip Butty]

micc, why do you feel the need to jump out of RVS before half the players have even checked in? And what's your take on the purpose of RVS?

[Chip Butty]

Its purpose is to end as quickly as possible. Building cases seems like a much better way to find scum than cracking witty jokes.

I don't know why you want everyone to prove their existence before RVS can end. Isn't that what the confirmation stage is for?

Cracking witty jokes as I solve games is my schtick. Also snark. I just think we could give everyone a chance to wittily insert themselves into the game, but whatever.

Now my vote is on Cabd apparently, because...uh...they couldn't even get the start of the alphabet right?

Micc, if we are going to get all serious, it seems to me that that slot has as much chance of being scum as any other, so why would it matter that RC was replacing out? Are you trying to discourage votes on that slot?

[Chip Butty]

Okay I'm going to check out for maybe up to ten hours, so here's your chance to ask me stuff if you want to...

[Chip Butty]

I can only stay for 15-20 mins tho

[Chip Butty]

I'm not really sure what there is to ask at this stage tho, lol

[Chip Butty]

are you concerned about the amount of votes on you?

More surprised, I would say. I think Micc is probably town because pushing such a weak wagon would be suicidal when i flip green. The main problem, as i see it, is that there's really not much i can say for myself here. Yes, i missed that RC was replacing out. I guess if that's a lynchable offence there's not much to say.

[Chip Butty]

Well, if somehow I do get lynched, look for scum on my wagon. There's only 8 available votes, and there are 5 needed to lynch and I can't see 5 town voting for this RC thing. Or even 4, really...Gotta go...

[Chip Butty]

Oh are we done. Okay. Let's talk about how micc just skipped over my entrence entirely?

You haven't really done anything interesting at this point so that's where I'm at.

So who of Cheekyteeky, Micc, and nothsidegal is most likely to be scum on your wagon?

although that's a valid question on its own i think he was talking more generally about the idea that he'd be lynched just for the placement of his rvs vote and how scum would have to be on that wagon if it went trhough. i don't think specifically he was calling any of those three scum.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what Chip says Chip meant instead of what northsidegal thinks Chip meant.

What NSG said.

[Chip Butty]

I just took a look at the beginning of the second scum.Micc game Micc linked to (the first he replaced in), and he did one RVS vote (this is an old game) and then got straight into it. Was probing people early there too and was actually twice as active there as here in the first 100 posts of the game (23 compared to 12 here, or something like that). NAI, I think.

Too early to call if he is really scumhunting or just trying to look busy. I said earlier Micc is prob town but after thinking about it more, i can see both town and scum motivations for his play to date. At the moment null or a very slight town lean.

[Chip Butty]

What NSG said.

...and that's why it's rude to answer questions that aren't aimed at you.

@Chip: How is "If I get lynched there is likely scum on my wagon" a useful post if you don't even have an opinion about who the scum on your wagon is? Can't literally anyone who gets lynched make that argument and have it be true more often than not?

This is just my second micro and the first finished well over a year ago. I'm just not used to the idea of 5 being enough to lynch on d1, and i was a bit startled that i had 3 seemingly just from the RC thing. It just felt like i was getting railroaded and i want to draw people's attention to it since i wasn't going to be around to defend myself.

[Chip Butty]

Oh are we done. Okay. Let's talk about how micc just skipped over my entrence entirely?

How come you never followed up on this?

[Chip Butty]

how much consideration have you accounted for regarding the time left in the Day? Looks to me like BlueBlake was at L-1 with 12 hours left in the Day and Sunlit Diamond went to L-2 on page 4. One player was basically 99% to be lynched that Day and the other maybe 25%. Transitioning back to this game I think its silly for anyone think that Chip was in danger of being lynched on page 4...and with that in mind its more likely that he was trying to dissolve his wagon instead of give sound advice to the town.

i agree with this to an extent which is why i thought it was newbie townish as newbies usually have a less calibrated sense of when somebody is close to actually getting lynched. however, even though he's more experienced than i thought i don't think your explanation is the best one for his post and the reaction still reads towny overall

what do you think of him now? do you buy his last post?

I'm not as experienced as my join date would indicate. Though i joined in Feb 16, i didn't even sign up for a game until 3 months later. Then i played for about 3 months and took a long break of over a year and started up again a few weeks ago. I literally have 1 completed game in like the past 15 months.

[Chip Butty]

no i think you put too much weight on the vote but that is likely a playstyle thing

i do think that your not voting isn't especially pro-town, however

You likely won't see a vote from me until i am confident in my entire reads list, not just a singular read. If this was a traditional game, the list would even contain the phrase "sync achieved"

From cabd's ISO I see only fluff, discussion about the setup, and this promise. I'm hoping to see some actual scumhunting from this slot real soon.

[Chip Butty]

This is just my second micro and the first finished well over a year ago. I'm just not used to the idea of 5 being enough to lynch on d1, and i was a bit startled that i had 3 seemingly just from the RC thing. It just felt like i was getting railroaded and i want to draw people's attention to it since i wasn't going to be around to defend myself.

So you think there was a reasonably high likelihood of you being lynched in the 10 hours you said you'd be gone...less than 48 hours into the game...and before you claimed?

what do you think of him now? do you buy his last post?

no. I don't buy it at all. I want to keep pushing and if there's support for his wagon ill gladly switch my vote.

I'm flattered you think i would cook up the ingeniously villainous idea of voting for RC just to drag out RVS a bit longer, but if you go back and read the post you're fixating on, you'll see it says 'If somehow i get lynched...' That indicates i think it is low probability but am saying jic. And it's not like people don't do idiotic things in Mafia.

Can we go back to RVS? I feel like we missed out on a proper RVS thanks to your no-fun-allowed policy...

[Chip Butty]

Okay one last comment before i go. I don't think the wagon on NSG is sound. Don't know if it is scummy or not. More later.

[Chip Butty]

Well, if somehow I do get lynched, look for scum on my wagon. There's only 8 available votes, and there are 5 needed to lynch and I can't see 5 town voting for this RC thing. Or even 4, really...Gotta go...

Re post 56: but what are you contributing to the town by saying there's likely going to be scum on your wagon if you get quicklynched on page 4? Looking for scum on mislynch wagons is a level zero scumhunting strategy that no town needs to be reminded about. I especially have a problem with your defense given that the equivalent of a vanilla townie in this game gets treestumped upon being lynched and can come back and say whatever they wish the following day.

I think i have a better idea of where you are coming from with this now, and why you got annoyed with NSG when she answered on my behalf. The point of your question was to determine whether 56 contained actual content or was just fluff. I chose what is, in your view, the fluff interpretation, thus fuelling your suspicions further.

Okay, that deserves a serious answer. I thought earlier you might be just trying to look like you were scumhunting by burrowing in on minor stuff like the RC thing.

The answer is that 56 contains more content than you appear to realise. Although i don't say so explicitly (though probably should have) i am saying BOTH scum would be on my wagon. That is, it would be narrowef down to finding both among 5 players. It is where i say i couldn't see 5 or even 4 town voting me because of my RC vote. That implies max 3 town in the wagon, therefore both scum also. I thought that was worth pointing out. If you disagree then you disagree.

I don't quite get the treestump bit. Yeah, I could say it after the lynch, or i could say it in advance of a possible lynch. Six of one... Rereading 56, I can see how it reads like a goodbye note, but really it was just 'hey if i get lynched, here is an important implication.'

Thinking about it in the light of your posts, it might have been better just to eat rope and post something like 56 after as a treestump, but i was in a hurry to go and didn't think it through at the time.

[Chip Butty]

@Micc: will reply to your other points when i return, which won't be for some hours.

[Chip Butty]

UNVOTE: Cabd

[Chip Butty]

We've got Cabd as doc, BTD6 as v/la, and Hopkirk and Kawso in need of a prod. I also don't really want to lynch a lurker but I'm not yet getting any super scummy vibes among Micc, SS, CT, and NSG.

Of those four I'm finding Micc to be townest mainly because he refused to be fobbed off when burrowing on 56, even though i didn't give the answer he wanted right away. I think scum would probably have pretended to be satisfied and moved on more easily. However, of he is operating at the level of designing setups, we are probably screwed if he is scum.

[Chip Butty]

Oh Hopkirk's here. Should have paid attention to the ninja alert...

[Chip Butty]

Fwiw i think Cabd should keep his protection strategy to himself.

[Chip Butty]

So who of Cheekyteeky, Micc, and nothsidegal is most likely to be scum on your wagon?

although that's a valid question on its own i think he was talking more generally about the idea that he'd be lynched just for the placement of his rvs vote and how scum would have to be on that wagon if it went trhough. i don't think specifically he was calling any of those three scum.

I liked this, because it shows Cabd is reading carefully, and i think scum would have let Micc's misreading slide through.

[Chip Butty]

@Hopkirk: yeah I've been wanting to get back to that and im ISOing NSG right now. I'm split between 5 games and also am intermittently busy irl so just doing what i can. It's not like the game is moving quickly anyway, and most of my recent efforts have been responding to Micc's queries.

[Chip Butty]

^^shows NSG is reading carefully

[Chip Butty]

@Hopkirk : also, would be nice if you could post more often as lurkers in a field this small really make it harder for town.

[Chip Butty]

CT, what did you make of Micc's 'overstatement'? Does it look like a plausibly genuine misreading to you?

[Chip Butty]

NSG cont.

83 and 88 defends Cabd against CT. Seems thoughtful and reading carefully.

The vote on Micc at 84 is...not good.

[Chip Butty]

More later...

[Chip Butty]

CT, what did you make of Micc's 'overstatement'? Does it look like a plausibly genuine misreading to you?

what is this in reference to?

Micc's question at the bottom of 65

[Chip Butty]

For the record, I am reserving my real reads list until everyone else has posted theirs, i don't want "sheep the confotown's reads" being a thing.

[Cabd]
[SS, CT, NSG]
[Micc
[Hopkirk]
[]

*Not enough input: BTD6, Kawso

[Chip Butty]

Micc's work rate has definitely dropped off after an initial burst of activity. Possibly cruising after having established some town cred.

Hopkirk on the other hand has picked up activity after initially being quiet, but while he raises a lot of points my overall impression is that they lack penetration.

I kind of like CT's recent observation that NSG's comments are not of the sharp scum hunting variety but i also sympathise with NSG because nobody is yet standing out as especially scummy.

I think kawso either has to join the game or be replaced. Don't really want to vote that slot until we get something from it.

[Chip Butty]

I'm not really opposed, more torn. Like you it would be policy lynch vote. In cases like this i sometimes advocate lighting a fire under a low activity player when other avenues of investigation ate going anywhere, and we do seem to have reached that point. I would have preferred to see someone make a fist of that slot but my vote is available if my town reads and town leans support it.

[Chip Butty]

You dropped a little lower partly because of the work rate thing, and partly because of what i said about you being a setup designer. Let's just say i expect you might be pretty good at insinuating yourself into a town block.

[Chip Butty]

^^...aren't going anywhere...

[Chip Butty]

An analogue of Aristotle's unity of the senses maybe. Anyway, you're on the null line, not scum. Do you really want a Kawso wagon? How do we move forward from here?

[Chip Butty]

^virtues, not senses.

[Chip Butty]

It's pretty much just what I've already mentioned. An overall impression that his observations aren't all that penetrating, but it's only a lean because it's not as if anyone else is doing much better. I get the impression everybody is just spinning their wheels a bit at the moment.

I kinda do disagree about Kawso though. It might be that scum is being hard to find because it isn't playing the game.

[Chip Butty]

Yeah that all sounds reasonable. I'm having phone battery issues so I'm out til i can recharge. I guess we just need to dig deeper. And Kawso should be replaced sooner rather than later if he doesn't jump in soon.

[Chip Butty]

I'll finish my NSG ISO then do Hopkirk. I feel there's something there but i can't quite put my finger on anything specific.

[Chip Butty]

I've already said i don't have anything special in the reads department yet, and neither does anyone else including you and Hopkirk. If you differ in your assessment of the value of his insights, that's fine, but I'm not seeing it. Perhaps point us to some especially acute Hopkirk observations?

Also, there's another reason you've slipped down a bit in my reads list, but I'm not ready to reveal it just yet. Maybe if you ISO yourself you might see it...

[Chip Butty]

Well Hopkirk doesn't have some guy banging on about minutae like accidentally voting for a guy replacing out, whereas i seem to spend most of the time i have available for this game dealing with that. Don't you get the irony of it? But please continue. I want you to dig up every tiny nitpicking point you can and bring it so that i have to spend time responding. And then i want you to complain that I'm not doing any investigating. I mean, nothing else much is happening in thecthread, so we might as well do this until the BTD6 and Kawso slots get into the game.

[Chip Butty]

For the record, I am reserving my real reads list until everyone else has posted theirs, i don't want "sheep the confotown's reads" being a thing.

sure

{SS, Cabd}
{NSG, Cheeky, Chip}
{BTD}
{Hopkirk, Micc}
{Kawso}

I haven't seen anything from Sobolev that made me want to push him so he gets to be a default town read.

Sobolev is scum leaning Hopkirk too, yet you have no problem with that?

[Chip Butty]

Chip and Micc, what are your thought on Sobolev? We all seem to be town reading him, it would be good to know why you two are town reading him?

I haven't seen anything from Sobolev that made me want to push him so he gets to be a default town read.

Fwiw that's my position too. My impression has been he's looked pretty solid. Doesn't ultimately mean shit but for now i don't see anything to make me suspicious.

[Chip Butty]

hopkirk is back to null for now

For the record, I am reserving my real reads list until everyone else has posted theirs, i don't want "sheep the confotown's reads" being a thing.

sure

{SS, Cabd}
{NSG, Cheeky, Chip}
{BTD}
{Hopkirk, Micc}
{Kawso}

@Sobolev: there were 4 Hopkirk posts in between these. Can you please explain your progression from null to scumlean on him, with reference to those four posts?

@Micc: Given your keen interest in Hopkirk assessments and progressions, how did you fail to notice this?

[Chip Butty]

Also the case has built beyond what it was on page 1. Stop pretending like it hasn't.

The 'case', as you call it, seems to amount to this:

1. A joke RVS vote on a guy who was replacing out.
2. Post 56, where you failed to notice all the content.
3. We differ in our assessment of Hopkirk. Yet you don't question at least one other who shares my assessment.
4. I downgraded you a notch, and you don't like the reasons stated so far. Yet you don't comment on the unexplained Sobolev progression on Hopkirk.
5. I haven't apparently been gamesolving enough for you, perhaps because like i said I've spent most of my time in this game responding to 1-4. I mean, show me where anyone has come up with a solid case on anyone in this game.

[Chip Butty]

Anything else you want to bring? Did i miss anything?

[Chip Butty]

I wasn't badgering you during the period of the game where my work rate decreased was I

And is this an admission that you have been badgering me the rest of the time? Interesting that you introduce the term badgering which i didn't.

[Chip Butty]

No town motivation behind 56???

I was saying if i got lynched there was a high likelihood of both scum being on my wagon, effectively narrowing the field to 5. How is that not town motivated? I've already pointed this out.

Btw, for the record, which of 1-5 do you currently stand by? And, again, is there anything else you want to bring?

[Chip Butty]

Sobolev is scum leaning Hopkirk too, yet you have no problem with that?

Nope.

@Micc: Given your keen interest in Hopkirk assessments and progressions, how did you fail to notice this?

I missed it because I don't have a keen interest in Hopkirk assessments

A simple 'nope' isn't going to cut it. You owe us a reason why you have a problem with me scum leaning Hopkirk but not Sobolev scum leaning Hopkirk.

Yes you do have a keen interest in Hopkirk assessments. You have assessed him yourself and attacked me because my assessment differs from yours.

Progressions: you attack me because i lowered you a notch and you don't like the reasons stated so far. So you are noticing progressions, but only selectively, it appears.

[Chip Butty]

I mean yeah NSG's approach to this game has been very weird; but can somebody explain why it's SCUM-weird?

yeah that's where I got hung up as well.

how do you feel about what I said in post 229? ive got a lynch pool of kawso, BTD6_maker and hopkirk and then chip butty and northsidegal are on the second tier.

Speaking of progressions, you've gone from having Hopkirk in your lynch pool here (above me, I might add) to thinking, apparently, that he is towny. Please detail specifically what changed your mind in the intervening 7 (if i counted correctly) posts.

[Chip Butty]

I could quote every post hopkirk has made that is either a) actively pushing a wagon on a player he thinks is scum or b) questioning a player in order to develop a read. I could then do the same for you. His list would be significantly longer.

Because scum never do these things, right?

[Chip Butty]

^^By 'detail', I mean with quotes to illustrate.

[Chip Butty]

@Micc: I just want to clear up something before we continue. How many games of Mafia would you say you had played when you designed this setup? Ballpark will do...

[Chip Butty]

Probably like 5

Okay, so I've been operating under a misconception. I thought designing a setup, one that has a name and is used by other Mods , as opposed to just a 1-off, was a pretty big deal and something only very experienced players did.

[Chip Butty]

We've got Cabd as doc, BTD6 as v/la, and Hopkirk and Kawso in need of a prod. I also don't really want to lynch a lurker but I'm not yet getting any super scummy vibes among Micc, SS, CT, and NSG.

Of those four I'm finding Micc to be townest mainly because he refused to be fobbed off when burrowing on 56, even though i didn't give the answer he wanted right away. I think scum would probably have pretended to be satisfied and moved on more easily. However, of he is operating at the level of designing setups, we are probably screwed if he is scum.

You dropped a little lower partly because of the work rate thing, and partly because of what i said about you being a setup designer. Let's just say i expect you might be pretty good at insinuating yourself into a town block.

Like i said, it had a bearing on why i lowered your ranking. After posting the first quote, i started thinking 'If this guy is designing setups, he's probably played a lot and knows everything about how to hide as scum'. So the demotion was more wariness on my part than anything. Plus scum sometimes bustles to establish cred and then cruises, and i suspected you a bit of that. I guess because you were so present early, it really stood out.

[Chip Butty]

Btw, don't expect me to charge around making cases for the sake of making cases, which is what i kinda think you're doing. I'm content to put this game on the backburner until the BTD6 and Kawso slots activate. I'll still respond to questions and slog through ISOs (if you give me time), but that's about it.

[Chip Butty]

NSG cont.

83 and 88 defends Cabd against CT. Seems thoughtful and reading carefully.

The vote on Micc at 84 is...not good.

More later...

Chip, from this I cannot understand your stance on NSG. You've pointed out posts that you think are townie and a post that you think not good. Was the "More later..." in reference to NSG or just a promise of more content later?

It meant i would continue my ISO of NSG later, and i will, if Micc allows it. I'm not hugely enthusiastic, though, because my impression of NSG is probtown. It's just that one vote mainly, but town can do bad votes too.

[Chip Butty]

Putting aside Micc's response, how does someone scumreading you in game (who I assume you think is scum based on what you've said) stop you from doing anything else? Unless your internet provider charges you by the word...

It's a question of having limited time and splitting it between 5 games. Why do you assume i scumread Micc when i have him as null? Okay, i admit I've been quietly stalking him, which is why I've been working to get his "case" on me on the record in detail and committed to, but i've been approaching it with an open mind. My main concern with him is that he seems to be employing a double standard with respect to me and everyone else. But trying to look at things objectively, I do need to say more about why I'm scum leaning you, which is something you've also rightly said. I'll make it my first priority but i lack enthusiasm for it because you don't look terrible or anything, just pinging me a tad scummier than everyone else.

[Chip Butty]

I wasn't badgering you during the period of the game where my work rate decreased was I

And is this an admission that you have been badgering me the rest of the time? Interesting that you introduce the term badgering which i didn't.

'Were you murdering the victim during the period of the 12th to the 14th?'
'I was not murdering the victim during the period of the 12th to the 14th.'
'Ah, so is that an admission that you were murdering the victim at another time?'

It's not the same, for some reason i can't be bothered to analyse roght now.

No town motivation behind 56???

I was saying if i got lynched there was a high likelihood of both scum being on my wagon, effectively narrowing the field to 5. How is that not town motivated? I've already pointed this out.

Btw, for the record, which of 1-5 do you currently stand by? And, again, is there anything else you want to bring?

Something we certainly wouldn't have thought of ourselves. Especially not Micc the super super experienced setup designer who can design setups but not think of things like 'if a town is quicklynched there's a good shot scum were voting them'.

Read what i said again. I was pointing out BOTH scum would likely be on my wagon. How many times do i need to repeat this?

Sobolev is scum leaning Hopkirk too, yet you have no problem with that?

Nope.

@Micc: Given your keen interest in Hopkirk assessments and progressions, how did you fail to notice this?

I missed it because I don't have a keen interest in Hopkirk assessments

A simple 'nope' isn't going to cut it. You owe us a reason why you have a problem with me scum leaning Hopkirk but not Sobolev scum leaning Hopkirk.

Yes you do have a keen interest in Hopkirk assessments. You have assessed him yourself and attacked me because my assessment differs from yours.

Progressions: you attack me because i lowered you a notch and you don't like the reasons stated so far. So you are noticing progressions, but only selectively, it appears.

I still don't see why anything you've said on me makes me scum leaning rather than null in your perspective.
Still waiting on the case that I'm sure will resolve this.

Don't expect anything bone crushing, it's just a lean.

@Micc: I just want to clear up something before we continue. How many games of Mafia would you say you had played when you designed this setup? Ballpark will do...

Micc said in thread he only had two scumgames.

Other sites are a thing, you know.

[Chip Butty]

Primarily why it was made, in light of the other stuff you were saying.

i was mad at micc for how rude he was being and i felt the game was still early enough that voting him wouldn't really matter that much. that's the entire reason.

What Micc said doesn't strike me as all THAT rude, like enough to get mad enough to vote for something clearly NAI. Why not just comment back? And i think we were clearly out of RVS at that point.

[Chip Butty]

VOTE: Micc


Think I'm here right now for reasons.

The thing that bothers me most about Micc is that he first voted me literally two minutes after my joke vote on RC, and he's been on my case almost continually ever since, and is openly employing a double standard. It's like he has decided i am his chosen target for the game regardless of what i say. I've been laying the groundwork for a case but i can't quite decide if he is being scummy or he is just bored.

[Chip Butty]

I've read through Hopkirk's ISO a few more times but I'm left with the same impression of 'meh'. He's written quite a bit and i don't see anything overtly scummy but it all just seems like minor stuff and he has a slightly unhealthy focus on NSG, who i still lean town despite that unfortunate vote on Micc. It's as if he is doing the same to NSG as i half-suspect Micc is doing to me: just choosing someone to more or less nitpick at, to look busy. At no point reading through Hopkirk's ISO do i get the feeling of aha! yeah he's onto something there'. Of course, this is slightly unfair if me, since none of us has been able to come up with anything much, at least not publicly. However i don't get the same slightly troubled feeling when i read the NSG and CT ISOs, so i guess put it down to gut. I think I'll keep him at scumlean for now. It's kind of a negative, impressionistic case in a way, with no specific posts i can point at. That's why it is just a lean.

[Chip Butty]

I guess what i am thinking is SOMEBODY must be scum, and we would be stiff to have got both in the inactives, in which case everything so far has been people blowing hot air at each other. But I'm really not picking up much among the actives, and Hopkirk just has a slightly less town vibe than the others. I know that's vague but it is the best I've got right now.

[Chip Butty]

Just read NSG's ISO again. Need to read CT and Hopkirk again. So many interactions already - Cabd, Micc, and SS as well. In a way, NSG has been at the centre of things so far. Will read through again later and post comments.

[Chip Butty]

Oh no are you scum chip?

No, but we haven't interacted much in this game, so we probably should do that for a bit. What's on your mind?

[Chip Butty]

If my confusion is justified, why is it disconcerting? Now i really am confused.

LAMIST? Should i not ISO dig? Or just not mention that I'm doing it? My point was that NSG has so many interactions that i need to ISO a bunch of other people to understand her ISO properly.

I should probably think of some penetrating questions to ask you...

[Chip Butty]

I'm just being upfront about it. I mean, can you point at anyone who isn't just casting about looking for the way forward? I don't see much else to do but ISO people and ask questions and try to spot a slip. As I've said, I'm ISOing now and the questions will come after that.

[Chip Butty]

Micc, I'm putting you on hold for this RL day while i work on my ISOs (lol sorry if that's LAMIST, CT). Otherwise we're just doing the same tired dance where you take up all my time then accuse me of not doing anything. Especially if your cunning plan is just to rehash ground I've just been over with CT.

Also, how did CT say in two sentences what you've been trying to say for days? You couldn't articulate 'LAMIST' and 'spreading confusion'???

I'll respond to FRESH concerns RL tomorrow, unless i finish ISOs today. Don't hold your breath though, because i don't have a ton of time today.

[Chip Butty]

Prodge: Sorry, I've been experiencing eyestrain and probably won't post much in any of my games in the next 24 hours at least. We're still waiting to get something out of the Kawso-Uzi slot anyway, and BTD6 hasn't said all that much yet. Yes, unfortunate that CT had to replace out at this point. Will be interesting to see what someone else will make of that slot and the fight with NSG...

[Chip Butty]

well that's unfortunate

LOL, if i made that comment you'd be throwing it in my face and demanding to know what pro-town content it had.

[Chip Butty]

Back on the case. Hope to be posting in 8-10 hours.

[Chip Butty]

Sorry. Am trying not to v/la or replace out but might have to. I posted a bit in one of my other games but rhen my eyes got sore again so i didn't push it. Looks like we're still waiting for replacements but i don't see why the game has to stall. Surely you all have questions for each other?

[Chip Butty]

Prodge: Took a couple of days off to let my eyes recover. Will hopefully this time catch up before too long...

[Chip Butty]

VC 1.5

They are all burning.

Leading Wagon:
northsidegal (2) - TheThawClown, CheekyTeeky
BTD6_maker (2) - Hopkirk, Micc

TheThawClown (1) - Papa Zito
Micc (1) - Cabd
CheekyTeeky (1) - northsidegal


Not Voting: BTD6_maker, Chip Butty

With 9 alive it will require 5 votes to achieve a lynch.

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2017-10-29 19:07:10)

Mod notes:
TheThawClown has failed to pick up their role PM after 24 hours. I will continue searching for a replacement unless they return.
Papa Zito replaces Sobolev Space. Welcome, Papa Zito!

Like you read things but what do you think about it all? Did you get any reads? Why are you voting BTD6_MAKER? What made him scummy to you?

yeah see this is a much better post than complaining

I do have reads yes and unlike Friend BTD6 I had no trouble getting strong reads.

I'm voting him for reasons I don't want to get into at this time.

so what are those strong reads zito? any townreads? who do you think is scummy? your predecessor (you replaced kawso, right?) thought i was scum, do you agree?

your slot has left us mostly content starved this game and i get the feeling that scum is in one of the two lurkers this game. so far i'm leaning towards you moreso than btd6, but perhaps you could change my mind.

NSG looks like she is putting Zito under pressure, but she makes the remarkable mistake of thinking he replace Kawso, not Sobolev as is actually the case. Can't read much into it in isolation but it might mean something. NSG has slipped down the towniness pole a bit, I'll get to that soon.

[Chip Butty]

I'm pretty sure that Micc and Hopkirk are both scum. If they are, it's a ballsy play.

[Chip Butty]

LOL^ NOT both scum

[Chip Butty]

Hmm...maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me something...

[Chip Butty]

One unintended benefit from my temporary absence is it afforded a glimpse of how Micc would behave. I have to say that he has, comparatively, lacked his early zeal. Maybe that will change now i am back. His sheeping Hopkirk onto BTD6 looks lukewarm...it's the biggest wagon in his lynch pool. Zzzz. Where is the energetic leaping onto tiny lapses like my RVS vote on RC? He seems to focus mostly on one player at a time, at least that is my impression. I'm a bit hazy on the early stuff, have only read through new stuff. Of which there was not much, i might add. You guys haven't been a hive of activity in my absence, but i guess with all the replaces and absences and lurking that's to be expected. So maybe Micc is just losing interest.

[Chip Butty]

More later i hope. I'm just going to be doing relatively short bursts for a while.

[Chip Butty]

Fwiw, I just re-read the SS ISO, and i still think it is solid, so that carries over to Papa Zito.

[Chip Butty]

Kind of crazy Kawso's slot is going for a 4th player without the slot really having posted.

Do you think that's AI? I'm starting to think rolling scum into this game might be putting people off the slot. Yes I'm aware this is a stretch but surely this is beyond a coincidence now?

I doubt it. However, 20+ pages into a game i would definitely be expecting to be feeling more scum vibes than i am, so will be looking hard at that slot if we finally get someone to make a fist of it. Then again, it's a micro so maybe fewer scum vibes is a consequence of that?

[Chip Butty]

Isn't TheThawClown your alt? What happened on that one UC?

You mean he replaced himself in this game?

[Chip Butty]

Chip butty continues to be some type of fascinated with or bitter about me and no one else which I still don't think makes sense if he's town.

Oh, the irony!

Also a misrep, since I've also read or interacted with Hopkirk, CT, SS, and NSG (partial), BTD only recently became active, UCV is still reading through, and Cabd has claimed.

Bitter, no; fascinated, well, let's just say you do have my attention, no denying that.

BTD ISO coming up, since it is relatively short and he's got the leading wagon...

[Chip Butty]

BTD has been avoiding making strong reads, yes, but he is very conscious of that and keeps drawing attention to it, so he definitely not hoping it will go unnoticed. And he is actually right, there hasn't been anything to form a strong read on yet, so i am sympatico. His approach contrasts with the Micc/CT overstate-and-bluff approach to scumhunting, which also has its merits when used correctly. I'm not feeling BTD's CT vote though. I think he probably just a thoughtful, cautious player who will hopefully get stronger reads as the game progresses. If not then can lynch, but i won't be lynching him today.

I think I'll wait for substantial posts from UCV before actually voting. I'm inclined to look at BTD's wagon next. I've been mentioning Micc a fair bit lately, and Zito is ex-SS so probably okay for now, even though he seems to be intent on scumming up the slot. Time to revisit Hopkirk, methinks, esp since i still hold the view that he and Micc are unlikely both to be scum.

[Chip Butty]

BTD has been avoiding making strong reads, yes, but he is very conscious of that and keeps drawing attention to it, so he definitely not hoping it will go unnoticed. And he is actually right, there hasn't been anything to form a strong read on yet, so i am sympatico. His approach contrasts with the Micc/CT overstate-and-bluff approach to scumhunting, which also has its merits when used correctly. I'm not feeling BTD's CT vote though. I think he probably just a thoughtful, cautious player who will hopefully get stronger reads as the game progresses. If not then can lynch, but i won't be lynching him today.

I think I'll wait for substantial posts from UCV before actually voting. I'm inclined to look at BTD's wagon next. I've been mentioning Micc a fair bit lately, and Zito is ex-SS so probably okay for now, even though he seems to be intent on scumming up the slot. Time to revisit Hopkirk, methinks, esp since i still hold the view that he and Micc are unlikely both to be scum.

[Chip Butty]

Zito is ex-SS so probably okay for now, even though he seems to be intent on scumming up the slot.

Hello Chip. Let's talk about this sentence.

Sure. If your slot didn't have the SS history behind it, i would be at least have you leaning scum atm.

[Chip Butty]

Seriously Chip. Put a vote into play.

Predit: haha, haven't you realized that Chip's go to method of reading people is that activity=Town, any sign of lurkyness=scum and absent=null.

Nopes. Waiting for UCV.

It's probably working out that way in this particular game so far, because no-one is being obviously scummy, but it's not a principle i endorse.

[Chip Butty]

Alrighty then.

[Chip Butty]

The Magic Chip Formula.

Do you want to know how I derived it? I looked at the activity table and noticed I'm the most prolific poster. Since from my own pov at keast I'm also townest, i realised that there is a perfect correlation there. Then i extrapolated to everyone else.

So yes, let's chat. We'll both become towner as we go along. And not to be rude or anything, but i feel you kind of owe it to SS to town it up a bit...

[Chip Butty]

Hello friends I will commence with the reading.

onice

Aight I read the things. This game is surprisingly dense.

Cabd is a big fat liar and I wanna see my file. Where do I send my FOIA request.

VOTE: BTD6

Don't know what to make of this just yet. Need more from Papa.

More what.

Like you read things but what do you think about it all? Did you get any reads? Why are you voting BTD6_MAKER? What made him scummy to you?

yeah see this is a much better post than complaining

I do have reads yes and unlike Friend BTD6 I had no trouble getting strong reads.

I'm voting him for reasons I don't want to get into at this time.

Complaining? I said I need more...like more information to make a conclusion. I didn't say omg why is Zito not posting more game content. That's a pretty strong reaction to a pretty neutral statement. Prefacing your post like that makes withholding your read seem more scummy than I'd otherwise find it.

That's a strong reaction? ok

Good thing I'm not too terribly worried about what your read on me is I guess.

Shoulda kept reading.

so what are those strong reads zito? any townreads? who do you think is scummy? your predecessor (you replaced kawso, right?) thought i was scum, do you agree?

I do have townreads yes.

This is the total PZ output before i poked him. Vote on BTD with no stated reason, and repeated assurances thatvyes he has strong townreads and evidence for them, but nothing forthcoming. And he just blows off anyone who expresses suspicion of him, rather than actually engaging them. That's why i said he is scumming up the slot.

Oh, and I'd REALLY be interested in hearing why Micc is willing to sheep onto such a weak-ass vote on BTD.

Okay, I think we're rolling now, at long last.

[Chip Butty]

Well, can you at least say why you don't want to give your reasons for your BTD vote?

I'm willing to hear you out but you're coming across to me as unnecessarily secretive and evasive. Unnecessarily if you're town, that is...

[Chip Butty]

Nopes again. You don't get to ask questions while blowing off questions from others. You haven't contributed anything except that naked vote on BTD. How am i supposed to townread you based on that?

[Chip Butty]

I'll answer your questions after you have become more forthcoming.

[Chip Butty]

LOL you guys must be really bored to buy this. Like i said, I'll vote when UCV has weighed in. We've still to hear anything from that slot. The simple truth is that I poked at PZ, presented the pitiful ISO from that slot since he took over, and asked him to explain his naked vote on BTD. Yes, i refused to vote immediately, because i am tired how Micc has been trying to dictate the pace of the game. We still have ample time, and I'm thinking this concerted reaction to someone questioning the BTD wagon and wanting to shed light on the UCV slot is not town driven, although at least a couple town are going along with it. I'm going back to compare with the early wagon on me...

The only vote on me that surprises me is Cabd.

[Chip Butty]

Hmm okay the early wagon was Micc, CT, NSG...Well, no secret that Micc has been after me most of the game, but otherwise no correlation.

[Chip Butty]

Oh, and I'd REALLY be interested in hearing why Micc is willing to sheep onto such a weak-ass vote on BTD.

Okay, I think we're rolling now, at long last.

Still want an answer to this please, Micc...

[Chip Butty]

Nopes again. You don't get to ask questions while blowing off questions from others. You haven't contributed anything except that naked vote on BTD. How am i supposed to townread you based on that?

So here's your problem my friend. You've casually insinuated a few times now that my actions are "scummy" without actually giving any backing to the claim. And I've given you ample opportunity to do so. Just to be clear, I'm not asking so you can convince

me

, I know what my alignment is! But if you actually well and truly believe that I'm doing vague and mysterious scummy things then your reaction should include things like:

1. Voting me
2. Asking others to vote me; pushing a wagon
3. Pressuring me into answering questions
4. Examining my iso and voting history in detail
5. Putting forth a case

My issue is that you've done none of these things. Instead what you've done is:

1. Throw shade at my slot
2. Complain about my behavior
3. Refuse to explain basically anything

I came in with a pretty strong scumread on your slot, so when you presented the opportunity to engage I took it and you've failed spectacularly. Nothing you've done in reaction to me has been townie. Instead you've tried to take advantage of my nonstandard behavior by throwing shade to erode the townpoints my predecessor gained without actually committing to it with a vote or writing down a stance I could debunk. Doing that would pin you down into a 1-on-1 that you're not sure you want because you don't know how good a player I am or how good my reads happen to be.

@Micc:

Are you done with BTD or do you still have things to hash out with that slot?

The thread is in danger of collapsing under the weight of the irony of this post alone. This is from a guy whose own "push" on BTD comprised a single naked vote.

[Chip Butty]

Rockin.

VOTE: Chip

not really agreeing here. chip actually

has

done some of the things you're describing! as for pressuring you to answer questions, what do you call 523 and 525? you say that he's not examining your iso in detail, but that's pretty much what he does in 521. you could make the argument that he didn't analyze it in detail, but i would say that there wasn't really a whole lot to analyze. it doesn't make a lot of sense for chip to just suddenly start voting you and pushing your wagon just because he believes you've been scummier than ss was - the townread on ss still exists.

I feel absolutely no pressure from Chip whatsoever. Complaining that he doesn't like what I'm doing (523/525)/ taking his ball and going home (526) forces nothing from me at all. You argued your own point on 521, well done.

The SS hedge is fun but either I'm scummy to him or I'm not. He's thrown enough shade to make it clear he thinks the latter so I think I'm perfectly justified asking why his actions aren't aligning with his words.

Actually, where I'm at with your slot is confused, because the performances by SS and you are like night and day. I poked at you because i couldn't decide whether SS did a great job in a scum slit, or you're doing a great job of scumming up a town slot that prevuously looked good. I still don't know, which is why i am still at the stage of asking questions. Questions that you refuse ro answer. That's why i refused to answer yours. I'm sticking to that. I don't feel any pressure here at all. And i didn’t take my ball and go home, i had RL stuff to do, and got back here as soon as i could.

[Chip Butty]

Well, can you at least say why you don't want to give your reasons for your BTD vote?

I'm willing to hear you out but you're coming across to me as unnecessarily secretive and evasive. Unnecessarily if you're town, that is...

I'll answer your questions after you have become more forthcoming.

Answer please. This is where i had to break off earlier...

[Chip Butty]

I'm still not vorung until UCV presents, if that's not already clear...

[Chip Butty]

^vorung is...er...Bavarian for 'voting'...

[Chip Butty]

Good lord almighty. I have answered all that at this point.

For someone who isn't feeling any pressure you sure are panic posting.

I'll answer your questions after you have become more forthcoming.

This is where you took your ball and went home.

Can you point me to where you answered that?

I can't see what why you are saying that. I said i would answer your questions, but you had to answer some first. I mean, where have you answered a single question by anyone? You've just blown everybody off...

[Chip Butty]

What were your reasons for voting BTD? Why don't you eant to discuss them?

[Chip Butty]

Show me where you have answered those questions. I just looked at your updated ISO and i can't see your answers...

[Chip Butty]

Oh and bye I'm not "panic posting" as you are making out. I'm just very keen to ontinue our chat. I have plenty of time now, so let's thrash this out.

[Chip Butty]

At last this game is becoming interesting...

[Chip Butty]

UCV, please check out PZ's ISO. You'll see he hasn't answered a single question by anyone. It's all 'i have reasons but I'm not going to tell anyone what they are'...

[Chip Butty]

People ought to be demanding answers to the questions I've put to Micc and PZ.

[Chip Butty]

Oh, and I'd REALLY be interested in hearing why Micc is willing to sheep onto such a weak-ass vote on BTD.

Okay, I think we're rolling now, at long last.

Still want an answer to this please, Micc...

I switched my vote to BTD because it made his wagon the largest of players that were in my lynch pool. I had hopes that doing this would a) help me get a better read on him through pressure and b) jumpstart a game that was becoming stagnant. I thought I had made that pretty clear, but maybe not. I'll leave you to explain why my answer to this matters.

I think it matters in the light of PZ's unsupported vote on BTD, and interactions between you and Hopkirk. Especially now that you're all on my wagon. I'm pretty sure I've caught PZ in a lie there btw. And ibdid get the largest wagon part from what you said. But do you really think BTD is scum? I'm not feeling it.

[Chip Butty]

^ by 'all' i mean Micc, PZ, Hopkirk. Not BTD...

[Chip Butty]

It's funny how PZ accuses me of taking my ball and going home, but when i say i have ample time for chatting and bring up what looks like a lie over whether he answered my questions about his vote on BTD, he disappears...

[Chip Butty]

@BTD: Exactly. Is it scum or badtown? That is what i was hoping to get more of an idea of with my questions, which PZ is still to answer.

Micc, why aren't you demanding more from Papa? I know he is in the SS slot but sure the contrast must have struck you?

[Chip Butty]

UCV seems to be in a hurry to end the day without giving us anything from that slot. We need to at least get that. If he isn't forthcoming real soon now I'm voting him.

[Chip Butty]

Cabd, what are you seeing in PZ that I'm not? I'm swinging round to the view that one reason it has been hard to find scum here is that SS played that slot really well. I haven't played with PZ before so i guess i need to meta him and see if he always plays like this.

[Chip Butty]

Good lord almighty. I have answered all that at this point.

@Micc: This is the lie right here. Not only did he naked vote BTD, but then he refused to answer why he voted or even why he couldn't say why he voted. Then he lied about having answered already. To me rhat looks like a pattern of avoidance that does actually seem scummy rather than just badtown now i put it that way.

PZ says somewhere i am avoiding a 1v1 but thatvis the exact opposite of the case. I'm itching for this, but he seems to have disappeared.

I think i will vote actually, with the proviso that i reserve the right to switch to UCV if he fails to come up with something good...

VOTE: PZ

Just to be crystal, this vote is specifically about the pattern of avoidance i just noted...

[Chip Butty]

Seriously Chip. Put a vote into play.

Predit: haha, haven't you realized that Chip's go to method of reading people is that activity=Town, any sign of lurkyness=scum and absent=null.

The Magic Chip Formula.

I'm not really lurking I'm just feeling really confident in my reads. Which is weird but nice. So atm I'm much more interested in supporting my townreads efforts in doing things than trying to drill down on my own.

Other than Chip. I do want to have a chat with Chip. Speaking of which:

Sure. If your slot didn't have the SS history behind it, i would be at least have you leaning scum atm.

oh no

but why

Okay, let's look at 518. I'm really glad you brought this post up. First thing, i don't see how you have answered why you have answered my questions (which hadn't yet been asked at this point). All i see here is a preemptive strike against future questions by saying you don't want to drill down on your own stuff. Guess what, champ? That shit don't fly. I think you are just trying to retro-fit this post to suit your current needs.

And why did you feel the need to defend yourself against a lurking charge? Had anyone accused you of lurking? Not that i can see...

I don't know why i seem to be the only one who seems to be able to see this, but then again i started out by giving you a pass based on SS's handling of the slot too...

[Chip Butty]

^ ...I don't see how you have answered my questions

[Chip Butty]

Can you please just straightforwardly answer my questions please? Why the vote on BTD? Why didn't you want to discuss your reasons? I don't see how this is answered in 518, i still think you lied about having answered these, and now i think you have tried to whitewash that lie.

[Chip Butty]

So the pattern I'm seeing from PZ is:

1. Voted BTD for no stated reason
2. Preemptively sought to avoid future questions about this vote (518)
3. Start casting shade at me only AFTER i poked him
4. Avoided my questions about vote on BTD
5. Lied about having answered my questions about vote on BTD
6. Tried to whitewash the lie by retrofitting 518 to the purpose.

I think PZ knows BTD is town and he is attacking me to draw attention away from his attempt to start a bogus wagon there.

[Chip Butty]

I think i kind of buy Micc's story here. It's consistent with the way he has played all game.

[Chip Butty]

Besides, i can't see a scum PZ/Micc team at this point any more than i can see a Hopkirk/Micc scumteam.

[Chip Butty]

Except you don't explain your vote in 518. Is anyone else seeing an explanation there? All I'm seeing is 'I'm not interested in explaining'

[Chip Butty]

518 says zito is town locking and POE-ing the rest. It's not like the best explsination of a vote ever but it's certainly not a black hole of reasons.

Can you explain like I'm 5yo please?

[Chip Butty]

For the record, I am reserving my real reads list until everyone else has posted theirs, i don't want "sheep the confotown's reads" being a thing.

sure

{SS, Cabd}
{NSG, Cheeky, Chip}
{BTD}
{Hopkirk, Micc}
{Kawso}

I haven't seen anything from Sobolev that made me want to push him so he gets to be a default town read.

Sobolev is scum leaning Hopkirk too, yet you have no problem with that?

Hmm. Sobolov-PZ was scumleaning Hopkirk, as was I, and Micc was suspicious of me for it but not SS. I seem to remember i questioned him about that and his answer wasn't bad. At this point i thought the SS slot was solid too. Food for thought...

[Chip Butty]

For the record, I am reserving my real reads list until everyone else has posted theirs, i don't want "sheep the confotown's reads" being a thing.

[Cabd]
[SS, CT, NSG]
[Micc
[Hopkirk]
[]

*Not enough input: BTD6, Kawso

So here is the readlist which broke Micc's s heart by relegating him to null. Time for an update.

[Cabd]
[CT, Micc, BTD]
[NSG]
[Hopkirk, PZ]
[]

UCV: not enough input.
Micc gets re-promoted because of recent interplay with PZ and Hopkirk (unlikely to be scum with either) but also because all that stuff about him being good by virtue of being a setup designer is off the table now. Bustling town i think.
BTD has joined the game. Seems cautious / non-committal but that's okay for now. Overall, don't really like the wagon he had on him earlier.
Ive put NSG as null, a demotion, but this might be a bit harsh. Mainly to do with interactions with CT. Will get around to that when i have time.
Hopkirk rating is provisional, as i need to do an updated ISO there.
The only reason PZ is not on the bottom tier is I'm waiting to see if Cabd can clear up 518 for me.

[Chip Butty]

Except you don't explain your vote in 518. Is anyone else seeing an explanation there? All I'm seeing is 'I'm not interested in explaining'

yeesh

Here I'll quote the exact sentence for you.

So atm I'm much more interested in supporting my townreads efforts in doing things than trying to drill down on my own.

Yeah i get that you are talking about that sentence. I just don't see an explanation there. I mean, we could all say that to dodge questions, right?

[Chip Butty]

You are REALLY looking evasive on this issue now.

[Chip Butty]

I feel like I've somehow wandered into Road to Rome.

Ah, the discrediting has begun!

[Chip Butty]

I've been around for hours now. Gonna take a break and do RL stuff. Will check to see if the Kawso...UCV slot has finally provided content.

[Chip Butty]

Okay i think I've nutted this out, after reading Cabd's last post. I think everybody has been reading 518 as

So atm I'm much more interested in supporting my townreads efforts in doing things than trying to drill down

on my own

independently

.

[Chip Butty]

Whereas I've been reading it as

So atm I'm much more interested in supporting my townreads efforts in doing things than trying to drill down on my own

reads.

.

Which seemed weird.

So, okay, PZ voted BTD because he townread Micc and Hopkirk, and was so confident in his reads that he decided to sheep them but actively avoid saying he was sheeping them.

So my next questions for PZ are:

Why the townreads on Micc and Hopkirk? Why so strong you see them as sheepable?

Why didn't you want to say this was what you were doing?

[Chip Butty]

Chip, lets talk UC Voyager. You seemed pretty set on waiting for him to make his entrance before settling on a vote, yet you haven't commented on his intent to hammer and subsequent vote on you. What are your thoughts?

UCV's vote/intent: I'm familiar with UCV's play. He's sometimes impulsive and logic isn't his forte. I thought giving 12 hours notice of intent was restrained by his standards. However, I'm concerned that it was another naked vote and I'm pretty sure he's not doing it for mafia philosophical reasons like PZ. So i definitely want to hear reasons for that vote.

My vote: I don't like being told when to vote etc so i was just digging my heels in to some extent, but also i wasn't ready, wanted to get some answers out of PZ first. I decided to vote when i did because i felt i had caught him in a lie and had enough to get some traction on a wagon, plus UCV had put in an appearance and i thought a reads list was imminent. He said something earlier about doing it after school.

[Chip Butty]

@PZ: Okay that's fine, i think. A couple of people here seem to know you, so i guess you're not gonna lie about your playstyle / philosophy. That would seem to explain why nobody but me had a problem with this low info approach of your

I have to say i feel a bit like policy lynching you though, sinply because when you roll scum this low info thing would be great for skating through the first few days..

[Chip Butty]

Also, speaking of impulsive players, I'd appreciate being taken down to L-2, jic someone comes in and votes before reading to the end of the thread.

[Chip Butty]

I think, given recent revelations, PZ is null or null town for now. I feel better now i don't have to resolve what looked like a big gap in townness between SS and PZ.

[Chip Butty]

Is that the sweet scent of gasoline the breeze carries to me?

[Chip Butty]

Fun game to watch after getting lynched. I remember feeling a little frustrated early, since I knew I needed to "solve" but picking a target was hard. NSG, SS, and (mostly) CT were friendly and I didn't want to alienate them. The slot that UCV eventually filled was inactive. BTD was inactive, then friendly. Cabd was confirmed town, and I thought attacking Micc was risky because OMGUS.

That RC vote thing was a bit unfortunate, especially as it really was an oversight rather than deliberately voting an empty slot. I just wanted to do a cowbell joke.

I cringe a bit reading through the early part of the day but I guess not being used to the micro format I just felt exposed with nowhere to hide.

At any rate, by the time I got lynched I felt reasonably confident, since I thought NSG, CT, UCV, and BTD were fairly easy mislynches, and if all went well with the prining, game over. Was pretty startled at the n2 result for sure, and much much less confident after that.

I agree that the setup would be better if the doc couldn't self-protect.

Thanks everyone, good game, and thanks to Lycan and Aristophanes.

[Chip Butty]

I expected Regfan to come and pontificate at some point, I'm disappointed.

I'm still trying to identify what went wrong in this game. I went from being on auto pilot to overanalyzing at just the wrong time. Possibly a byproduct of me not generally being a town-blocking type of player. Possibly its just that my performance would have earned me a night kill before lylo under normal mechanics and not being used to this type of situation. Possibly had to do with being my first game back after a year plus break.

Here's what I think went wrong:

1. You and I were completely overconfident after Day 1.
2. Cabd did absolutely nothing with his confirmed town status.
3. NSG and Cheeky misplayed on Chip and didn't do much to right the ship.
4. BTD didn't play the game.

Your performance would have absolutely earned you a nightkill in a typical game yes.

I think this is missing the main point a bit, but is partially correct.
1. Definitely.
2. A bit harsh. But yes, could have done more.
3. Again, a bt harsh. NSG and CT weren't the only ones townreading me. BTD and SS did too, and it's unlikely Micc would have got the traction to lynch me if PZ hadn't replaced in. And, perhaps if i hadn't picked a fight with PZ, not even then (?)
4. BTD did join the game, but he allowed himself to be pocketed and, after I was dead, went off on a logical tangent to nowhere.

I believe the real key to town's failure is ro be found on d5. All the easy mislynches were out of the way, and remaining town were Cabd, Micc, PZ, with input from stump Regfan and, to a lesser extent, others. All the players i named there were diligent and cautious and thoughtful. They are all good players imo. But all this was to no avail because the associations laid down by Hopkirk and me were damn exquisite. They were opaque even to the diligent scrutiny given them on the final day. I did probably go wrong in not reacting harder to UCV's entrance. Apart from that, there were enough bombs in my interactions waiting to be "discovered" by scumhunters that mislynches were almost inevitable. It was fascinating, actually, to watch essentially the four of you give it your very best shot on d5, but still get it wrong. I don't think it reflects badly on any of you. You made the right decision based on what had been posted throughout the game. You just got misled by the misleaders.

[Chip Butty]

This game ended up feeling like the games we had 4-5 years ago. No spamposting, no memes, just people trying to Figure Out The Puzzle.

It was nice.

I wasn't around back then, but i agree that the site has deteriorated since mid-2016 when I first played here, and that it was a fascinating game.

[Chip Butty]

And i have to say Hopkirk played his part really well. I don't think i would have found him either.

[Chip Butty]

Also, I didn't have any problems with the modding, apart from the game being neglected for a few days. Thanks Lycan! Hope you don't get so many replacements next time...