Open 702: Vanilla Nightless Game Over

Luca Blight · Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:53 pm

You sound pretty angry considering Town are pretty much in a won game here.

To be honest, I'm just going through the motions now - as long as you're not within the group I'm reading as Town then you can be lynched. Simple as that.

Luca Blight · Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:36 pm

Being angry at being lynched, if you're town, is silly as you're going to win the game either way. You hammered two scum this game - that's something to be happy about, if you're Town. Just relax and enjoy the show.

I'm not lynching you based on any sort of logic other than you're not particularly in my townreads, therefore you can be lynched. This logic is sound because it guarantees a win.

I don't care if it's you, Zaraki or cy being lynched today - either one of you could be scum, but whoever it is will lose regardless.

Luca Blight · Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:49 pm

Suikoden II - a game I liked during my childhood.

I'm happy to lynch Zaraki if that's what everyone agrees on.

Luca Blight · Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:13 pm

Someone hammer.

We lynch Zaraki Tomorrow if this flips green.

Luca Blight · Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:24 pm

Zaraki is probscum actually - I expect scum would have just given up at this point, as he seems to have done.

Luca Blight · Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:24 pm

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Zaraki

Luca Blight · Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:52 pm

Don't blame me for your lynch when you've given no-one any reason to keep you alive. You've looked suspect all game and are lucky to have made it this far.

3/5 is still a decent return.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:23 am

Sesq or cy today.

Which way are we going?

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:06 am

VOTE: Sesq

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:21 am

I say we lynch Sesq and cy, and if the game still isn't over then we pause and reflect.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:04 am

Someone hammer while the Mod's online.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:25 am

I don't see why you don't just hammer and leave the analysis for later - if Sesq flips scum then it's all for nothing.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:39 am

VOTE: Moz

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:40 am

Although cy is probably more likely scum. Possibly Athena.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:04 pm

Yeah Moz in't my first choice actually.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: cy

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:58 pm

This is my plan:

Lynch cy, Moz, Athena. If the game still isn't over it leaves me, Impede and Comm for the final showdown.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:34 pm

Why is it interesting?

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:48 pm

Moz' post is BS. He is the one who wanted a Zaraki lynch over a Sesq one, and then he says I'm scummy for lynching Zaraki over Sesq?

The reason I've posted less recently is because it's seemed like an easy win and I've been going through the motions.

I actually do think Moz is scum now. If the paranoia is too much to bear then I can accept being lynched today on the proviso Moz is next for the chopping block.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Moz

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:55 pm

In post 1202, CultOfAthena wrote:
In post 1201, Luca Blight wrote:Moz' post is BS. He is the one who wanted a Zaraki lynch over a Sesq one, and then he says I'm scummy for lynching Zaraki over Sesq?
It seemed to me like he was saying the
manner
in which you switched wagons was scummier, moreso than the vote itself.

Why do you think Moz as scum tries to push you, here?

But he misrepped the manner in which I switched wagons - I gave a valid reason for doing so, and I've made it known I scumread Zaraki more than Sesq throughout the game.

Why wouldn't Mozscum push me here? Undermining the player with the most towncred is necessary if he wants to have any chance of winning the game.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:59 pm

I didn't seem very convinced? I've scumread Zaraki since UCV was lynched.

What motivation would have to switch as scum there? It wouldn't matter which one of them was lynched.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:06 pm

Spoiler: Proof I scumread Zaraki every bit as much as Sesq recently

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:10 pm

Spoiler: Reasons why I started scumreading Sesq

In post 1047, Luca Blight wrote:Although a Sesq/Zaraki scumteam wouldn't surprise me.

Sesq is using an old scum tactic of heavily scumreading one player and using that to coast through the game so they don't have to take hard stances on anyone else. I've used this tactic as scum in the past myself.

Her posts about Zaraki, always dismissing him due apparently not remembering his posts, feel weird as well. It's like she's trying to distance herself from him while also having an excuse not to vote for him.

In post 1055, Luca Blight wrote:
Spoiler: Sesq's quick change of opinion and obvbus
In post 980, Sesq wrote: also why is zulfy scum?

In post 985, Sesq wrote:
In post 981, mozamis wrote:All you keep doing is saying "Cult is scum, cult is scum". You never give any reasons, never really push it.
How about the other options, like Zaraki, Zulfy, Cyfly? Saying "unsure about everyone else" isn't good enough for a player of your calibre.
i've explained why. read my posts

i have said nothing about zaraki because i dont know where to place him. i cant tell if he is a very bland player or scum. dont see a lot of great arguments.

zulfy is lurker. whatever. stop pushing him so hard he could be useful later

cy. possibly scum. probably. if cult is, yes.

In post 1026, Sesq wrote:
In post 1018, mozamis wrote:This is basically in order. 2 main points:

1) Sesq I am waffling on. On the one hand, she is tunnelling Cult. On the other, she is hardly blending in. Does scum Sesq really stand around shouting for someone else to be lynched?

2) I compeltely forgot about COMMkinght when making this list. Has he blended in to the background?

MOZ, LUCA, IMPEDE, CULT = TOWN

LUCKY PROB TOWN

SCUM IN:
SESQ, CYFLY, COMM, ZARAKI, ZULFY.
no

but

i think im convinced on zulfy

he never votes and is useless and we might as well get it out of the way

and maybe we get a scum lynch as well.

In post 1027, Sesq wrote:oh shit i didnt actually vote

VOTE: zulfy

thats l1. get cracking

In post 1056, Luca Blight wrote:Also worth noting that before Sesq's 980 she had not mentioned Zulfy once in this game.

In post 1058, Luca Blight wrote:Another two weird posts from Sesq than have stuck with me in this game:

In post 350, Sesq wrote:
In post 339, Luca Blight wrote:Basically you're asking me how UCV's behaviour this game could come from a Town perspective?

If so, you should ask that question to whoever is against UCV's lynch.
no

you do it
Sesq is voting UCV here with me. Why is she expecting me to make a defence for UCV? This was never explained.

In post 436, Sesq wrote:Luca, are you sure it isnt possible ucv misread shit? i wasnt there so i dont think i can really say, but if you think i have the room to i will investigate
This came while UCV was L-2. It's a soft defence, and doesn't makes sense given her position on the wagon. It feels really tentative.

Sesq was the first to join me on the UCV wagon but did nothing to progress it forward, and actually did more to cause doubt as I've displayed above.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:30 pm

Moz, do you accept that the next three lynches need to be cy, Athena and yourself?

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:39 pm

Fair enough,

Cy and Moz lynched next, and then me, Comm, Athena and Impede as the final four if the game isn't over.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:41 pm

I don't know you're Town. I haven't trusted you for most of the game actually, but I've kept those thoughts to myself for the most part.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:45 pm

Athena would be a fine lynch for today, but I'm feeling more uncertain about Moz. I think I'm sticking with my vote.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:51 pm

What happened to yours?

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:02 pm

So as Town I should share every thought that pops up?

And you went from cy being 'disheartened scum giving up' to suddenly being Town. No explanation given.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:07 pm

There's a reason I keep certain thoughts to myself - I don't like to let people know I suspect them, or in some cases townread them, as it alters their behaviour.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Can I just point out the irony of cy criticising me for not sharing every thought I have - he was the one who earlier admitted to lurking and following the thread to see how it progressed without posting anything.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:16 pm

In post 1242, cytheflyguy wrote:
In post 1240, Luca Blight wrote:There's a reason I keep certain thoughts to myself - I don't like to let people know I suspect them, or in some cases townread them, as it alters their behaviour.
This on it's own is fair. What I want to know is A) What do you think would have been altered from Moz knowing that you don't trust him? and B) What benefited the town in telling that now?

a) How do I know what would have been altered? I just didn't trust him, even when he was pushing UCV, and wanted to observe his behaviour further.

b) I was responding to Moz saying I know he's Town.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:17 pm

In post 1245, mozamis wrote:
In post 1238, CommKnight wrote:Moz is definitely today's lynch regardless of how long we draw out talking. So Moz can say his thoughts and reads. But he is being lynched today.
Look, you're pissed off with me cos i voted you, i get that.
But No one individual gets to decide who the lynch is. Not you, not me, we need to calm down. On that note, I'm off for me grub!
But Lucca really worries me. He's misrepping which is a scummy sign.

You misrepped me earlier, so I guess you must be scum?

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:22 pm

Btw it's not to say I scumread you all game, Moz, I just didn't trust you, and the reason I didn't vote you or have you in my lynch pools was because there were far more scummier players at large.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:22 pm

Sesq is someone I trusted early on but started to doubt after LaserGuy's lynch.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:33 pm

Cy, I wanted to withhold that info because I suspected others far more, and letting Moz know I didn't trust him would give me no immediate benefit and could only negatively impact my ability to read him in future.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:45 pm

Moz is today's lynch.

Cy, feel free to hammer.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:59 pm

One good read all game? Lol. You're rewriting history.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:02 pm

But yes, I think Athena is next.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:31 pm

Time to slow down and consider things a bit now.

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:38 pm

Associations with lucky have got me back to thinking cy is scum...

Luca Blight · Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:43 pm

Need to consider some more but I'm thinking either Impede or cy for today's lynch.

Luca Blight · Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:03 am

1) I never called myself confirmed town.

2) Of course I'm skeptical of people challenging me - if I was scum and there was someone with a huge amount of towncred in the game, I would want to unsettle that situation.

3) I'm not sure what your point is about me helping find scum - it's like you're unwilling to give the credit due to me for my part in those lynches.

4) My 'taking charge' only really happened on D2, which I think was fair enough seeing as I almost single-handedly pushed through a scum lynch on D1. You are exaggerating this point; in case you hadn't noticed I haven't been trying to control everything since then.

5) Even if I was demanding as much control as you're making out, why would I use that control to lynch all of my scumbuddies? I don't see the logic behind that; surely I'd be better off going with the flow and hoping Town was lynched instead?

6) Nice little disclaimer at the end. It seems as though you're just fishing for reactions to see if a Luca lynch is possible, while giving yourself an easy jump-off point with Athena.

Luca Blight · Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:36 pm

Spoiler: This post pinged me a bit

This, if Comm is scum, feels like he's setting himself up for the win - he knows I townread him and wouldn't lynch him before MYLO, and then I would be lynched. He also feels a bit different to the last game I had with him where he was Town, but I feel like I want to trust in my townslip theory. Lucky would have been bussing him as well, and I get the impression Lucky isn't someone who busses unless he has to.

Definitely Impede or cy being lynched today.

Luca Blight · Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:37 pm

I'm leaning Athena Town as well for posts such as this:

In post 707, Lucky2u wrote:VOTE: Cult of Athena

I'm throwing myself behind Moz on this one, sorry Luca.

No real reason for Lucky to bus Athena here when I was pressing a Laser lynch.

Luca Blight · Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:35 pm

1) I was referring to the fact people have been calling me such things as 'confirmed town' and 'almost confirmed town' this game.

2) Why should I want to showcase how Town I am? That would only be the case if I was scum, which I'm not. And it isn't a flawed argument - it's a natural inclination to suspect people who suspect you, especially when you are in a strong position in the Town in such a game as this.

3) The reason I played this way on D2 is because there were still three scum at large - easily enough to misguide any lynch. I knew I could only trust myself, and everyone ele could only trust me, therefore I should the the one to decide that particular lynch. In the end I didn't want a Laser lynch but couldn't persuade the others to jump off, so my influence ultimately failed anyway.

4) This is something everyone does to some degree. If it was me controlling the lynch then I would demand everyone vote one particular player, but instead I narrow down a list of three good lynch choices and suggest people vote one of them. This is no different from anyone else suggesting who they want lynched. I've actually been following the likes of Comm and Impede since Lucky's lynch.

5) It would be a silly strategy to lynch my three scumbuddies within the first four lynches of the game and expect to survive mislynch after mislynch without being suspected. Comm, who I townread, has already stated if the game goes to MYLO he will set out to lynch me. Everyone else in the game also seems pretty cool with my lynch at some point, so don't you see as scum I'd be basically setting myself up for the loss here?

6) My point stands. Lining up Athena's lynch after saying you don't understand why people are scumreading her seems like a calculated move.

Luca Blight · Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:40 pm

I'm almost certainly voting cy and Impede for the next two lynches, so I guess if either Comm or Athena are scum then they've got this sewn-up.

Luca Blight · Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 pm

Will probably lynch Impede today but feeling lazy to make a case atm.

Luca Blight · Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:50 pm

Basically I feel Impede is scum due to his early interactions with UCV (which I found suspicious at the time) and by POE which I talked about earlier which narrows it down to him and Cy.

Cy's

'lynch me'

thing seems more genuine than Impede's attempt at the same, so that's who I want lynched today.

VOTE: Impede

Luca Blight · Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:12 am

Btw cy, I did expand on why I changed my mind on Athena.

I still think Athena could be scum but I want to lynch either cy or Impede today. I'll go with Comm's choice for now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: cy

Luca Blight · Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:19 pm

Good game.

I agree cy did well, although we should have nailed him earlier really.

@Impede

- Your self-vote came across more as a last desperate attempt at wifom from scum. I always attribute self-voting to scum, unless there's a good reason to think otherwise.

Luca Blight · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:12 pm

I'll just leave this here...

In post 480, Luca Blight wrote:It has to be said that Cy looks pretty bad here. The only time he really talked about UCV was in this defence of him here:

In post 324, cytheflyguy wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 303, Luca Blight wrote:
UC Voyager

122, 171, 191, 266 - A continuing theme of
'town should/shouldn't be doing this!'
. This is something UCV does when he is scum.

129 - Completely fake scumhunting. Looks contrived with one townread, one null read, one scum read, and no real reasoning for any of it.

141, 143,152, 155, 199 - Buddying me. As I explained before, he knows I know his meta well and that I tunnel on him once I catch on that he's scum, and he entered into this game with the plan of trying to appease me, no doubt about it.

146, 147, 174 - Fence-sitting. This is something I know he does as scum.

159 Asking if Impede's play is lurkscum; why can't he judge this for himself?

189 - non-committal and unexplained reads list where he gives scum leans but says he has no solid scum reads, but is apparently 'still hunting'.

222 - Responds to my vote on him for buddying with a further attempt at buddying, saying it's good I don't always consider those who side with me as being of the same alignment. He's also using emotion here to try and get me to change my mind.

Other than that, I have played with him many times now and can read this guy like a book. UCV is today's lynch - let's make it happen.

Unless anyone can give any good reason why we
shouldn't
lynch UCV today?

In post 313, Luca Blight wrote:Statistics are irrelevant - just because you draw scum one game doesn't mean you're less likely to in the next.

I made a lot of points not involving meta - you haven't addressed them.

I kept an open mind and tried to consider you might be Town, but I just strongly believe you are scum this game. Am I supposed to suppress that feeling in case you get annoyed?

No. Being scumread is part of the game. Deal with it.
Hmm...tbf you only referenced 4 posts that had nothing to do with metaing. These were all the points that had only one post to back up the claim.

The first one made me raise an eyebrow was "no real reasoning for any of it". I'm sorry, but...

In post 130, mozamis wrote:OK, so P.O.E time:

Town= Moz, Sesq, Lucca, Lucky, Zaraki, Comm

So scum in: archer, impede, cyber, cult, voyager, laser guy

thats four scum in 6 , good odds!

out of those 6, gun to head i would say scum team is: archer, impede, cult and voyager

In post 186, Impede wrote:Finally caught up. Here's where I'm at as far as reads. Not going to post a ton of rationale since I need to get back to work (on lunch right now), but most of it is in my previous posts from the past hour. Feel free to question anything in particular that doesn't jive and I'll explain.

Town
to
Null
to
Scum
:

Sesq, Moz

UCV*, Luca, Cy
----slight

Laser*, Comm
----leaning town

CoA*, Arch('s slot)*
----leaning scum

Lucky, Zaraki

*indicates a need for more content. Don't feel great about these reads.

In post 235, CommKnight wrote:{Luca, Cult, Sesq}
{cy, UC}
{Zaraki, Impede, Laser}
{Lucky, moza, Zulfy}

Getting a better feel of people now and moza and Lucky are definitely on the bottom right now. Luca, Cult and Sesq are off the table for today (though Sesq is definitely being looked at more in future days), Cy and UC are more town leans and the rest are more meh. Zulfy is more of an educated gut feel.

People should vote Lucky.

In post 254, cytheflyguy wrote:
In post 252, Luca Blight wrote:Note for reference that Cy, having been widely townread early on, has done nothing since.
Fair

I'll be honest, I'm not too confident in my reads as of late so I wanted to wait things out for a bit.

However, I might as well post some reads just to be relevant again.

Town

Luca Blight
Impede
Laserguy
CultofAthena-Town/Null

Null

UC
Zulfy
Sesq

Scum

Lucky2u-Honestly putting him here
CommKnight
mozamis

I feel like a sheep since this is popular consensus. I work better when there's something I want to contradict.
Including myself and excluding UVC, there are four other people who gave little/literally no reasoning for their reads. I feel that UVC's meta has blinded you in the order of who you want to lynch, but these should be addressed as well down the line if we're reasoning that poor reads=a larger likelihood of being scum or not.

Obviously, I don't have the same meta experience as you do (well, none of which I'm allowed to speak of), but you are the only one who has had experience with him out of all of us, as far as I know. I cannot truely take you at your word regarding the meta. Your three posts that I have not addressed do hold some water, but I interpreted them differently. I saw it as more unsure and testing waters more than anything else. I am slightly convinced, but I don't want him lynched just yet. With how fast votes are going for him, for my best interest in using time wisely, I will abstain for now.
And it came at a very telling time - just after a few had joined me in voting UCV (he was L-3 at the time), so as scum he would have a motive here in trying to stem the flow.

The fact he has also generally been lurking throughout but suddenly popped up to make that defence makes it stand out all the more.

FOS cytheflyguy

Lucky was actually the most convincing scum imo. I only started suspecting him once I looked through his meta and saw he played similarly in his scum games.