Open 701: Pick Yer Power X/Y Game Over!

[Viomi]

Fluff is not an AI thing either. There’s no motivation to do it and if you believe that prod dodging is one, consider that moderators can just force replace players they deem to be purposefully trying to not get prodded.

Uhh.. Actually, no they can't! You don't force replace players as long as they aren't breaking rules or getting their third prod. Fluff posting is entirely viable for scum. Did you not READ the mafiascum wiki pages I linked that explicitly contradict what you're saying?

Yes they can

I have. The wiki isn’t gospel my friend. It’s just a guide for beginners to understand the basics. Most of the theory on there is very outdated in practice because the majority of players have realized that town commit “scum tells” just as frequently as scum do and vice-versa.

Umm.. So how do you get your reads if not scumtells and towntells?

I hunt for motivation. I try to see and understand the intention behind an action. If there is motivation for an action from either alignment, I use experience to determine likelihood.

You do realize scumtells and towntells are telling of motivation behind posts, right..?

[Viomi]

Like, you literally just described scumtells as your alternative to scumtells.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No but now that I have you for a second, I noticed that you’ve yet to really explain what motivates scum to active lurk and post fluff. I have a feeling that you can’t so are there any other reasons why you think my slot is scum?

[Viomi]

No but now that I have you for a second, I noticed that you’ve yet to really explain what motivates scum to active lurk and post fluff. I have a feeling that you can’t so are there any other reasons why you think my slot is scum?

Uhhh.. actually I've explained this multiple times, which you'd know if you would read the game.

[Viomi]

I've also linked the wiki for this game, which also explains it, but you've discredited it for some reason after just over a year of playing. Lmao.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

And I did make a case..

I do remember you saying a few words as to why she is scum. But IIRC, it was mostly just pointing out holes in her pushes and criticising her activity. In general, it just felt OMGUSy. The only thing that I could perhaps consider being scummy is how she didn't reply to your reply to her original case on you. Personally, I just see it as she was never really hard pushing you. If you want to, we can pressure her to reply to that, but I honestly don't see how that would help us right now. If you want me to believe she is scum, make a more detailed case on her pointing to specific posts. It takes walls to change my strong reads, not sentences.

Yes, because pointing out that her pushes are all fake and misreps, and that she's active lurking this game so she doesn't have to give us any more information than she needs to is definitely what OMGUS is.

"Personally, I just see it as she was never really hard pushing you."
Then read the fucking thread and pay attention to the fact that pushing me is the only thing she's done in D2.

Just because you're from some shit forum where lurking the game out is somehow not scummy doesn't mean that's the case here.

flipped town, that is.

Oh okay, that makes more sense.

Wanna link your games with her so I can fact-check that?

Also, I know you won't understand why lynching lurkers is a good idea, since you are.. well, a lurker.

But basically, lurking denies the information town and also is a very common tactic among scum to stay under the radar and avoid getting caught up in all the suspicion and whatnot leading to mislynches.

And it's not just about her not posting very much, it's about the few posts that she uses to dodge prods being completely fluff. More akin to:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ve_Lurking

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The above is all I can find.

You believe her motivation was not to give town any information and to avoid being prodded. Now ask yourself, how do those things help her look town? How do they help her avoid suspicion and stay alive? How do they help scum manipulate others and distort things?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I also have brought PK who was lurking and flipped town. Why are you not taking this into consideration?

[Viomi]

The above is all I can find.

You believe her motivation was not to give town any information and to avoid being prodded. Now ask yourself, how do those things help her look town? How do they help her avoid suspicion and stay alive? How do they help scum manipulate others and distort things?

Because bad players like you allow them to live and pretend it isn't AI.

Also, clearly you still aren't reading. There's a post where I literally go through her entire ISO.

Anyways, read that active lurking link because clearly if you're asking these questions, you still haven't.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’m being a bit of a broken record here because I think you’re tunneled and refusing to re-evaluate because you like what you read from the Wiki.

Just think about what’s scum win-con and how they realistically go about achieving it? When’s the last time you’ve seen scum active lurk and fluff their way to victory?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No I want you to explain into me. Using your own words.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

No I want you to explain it to me. Using your own words.

EBWOP.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Listen, if you’re going to use scum and town tells, you have to understand why they exist. If you know why they exist you can decide for yourself how effective such a tell can be (what percentage of scum will approximately be caught with it). You are a much, much, better player if you know why they do, as it will let you use them at the right moment and against the right players. On some players certain tells will work, on some others it won't.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Actually I’m just going to ignore you. I get less annoyed when I ignore my town reads

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Creature, talk to me about Electric? You mentioned generic?

[Viomi]

I’m being a bit of a broken record here because I think you’re tunneled and refusing to re-evaluate because you like what you read from the Wiki.

Just think about what’s scum win-con and how they realistically go about achieving it? When’s the last time you’ve seen scum active lurk and fluff their way to victory?

Uhh... I've seen it in at least 8 of my games.

[Viomi]

Also you telling me to play is kind of hilarious, please don't talk down to people who have been playing for years longer than you.

[Viomi]

Like, you're saying "pfft, scum could never active lurk because town would lynch them! therefore we shouldn't lynch them"

Which is.. you know, exactly why active lurking would work?? You're literally proving yourself wrong.

[Creature]

Creature, talk to me about Electric? You mentioned generic?

Yeah, he's the definition of genericity.

His reads are plagiarism, specially his "oh creature is buddying too much i'm down to lynch him"

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Reread her ISO and I see what you mean. There’s nothing distinctive about her reads but I don’t really think that’s a problem. Thinking you’re scum buddying was pretty assaine though. However, I think her play is a result of too many of us are playing sheep. And usually when that’s the case, there is little to no reason for argumentation to take place.

[texcat]

Hmmm...you would think that with too many of us playing sheep we'd be able to lynch someone. As it is, we have less than 2 days left (again) and no one seems to agree on a lynch.

[mutantdevle]

@LUV: I'm only being hostile to Mutant, and it's because his post style in this game annoys the fuck out of me.

By posting style you mean "wants people to actually answer his questions instead of purposely avoiding them for several pages"?

Like, I'm hella busy, but I'm making an effort in this game right now because we have a deadline approaching. But I need to get back to RL real soon.

Oh sure, so your increase in activity definitely has nothing to do with the wagon that's grown on you, right?

Suspects for today should be CK, Creature, texcat, and Mutant, in that order. Don't forget the early role fishing. Sometimes VIs roll scum.

By bringing up the role 'fishing' (again) that just seems like you are screaming "I'M DESPERATE, DON'T LISTEN TO MUTANT'S CASE ON ME!"

[mutantdevle]

Can we not compromise Lynch? Lalendra's slot is scum

Many of us disagree. I'd also like to see more from LUV before we lynch that slot.

You just said you agreed with me. What changed about Lalendra's slot to make you disagree?

@mutant: Can you answer this?

Nothing's changed. I meant I disagree that the slot should be a compromise lynch. I think LUV is a very capable player so it's only natural that we give her a chance to redeem the slot.

[mutantdevle]

Now Creature has jumped on this bw as well. Can't people see how scummy he is being? If we can't get CK today (why, oh why?), I can compromise with a Creature lynch.

Come join me on the wagon it's got some nice spaces left.

Personally, I'm not super down with a LUV lynch, largely because they just replaced into a slot I didn't have the strongest of reads on either way.

Then again, I haven't been super paying attention to the thread the past few days. Will take some time tomorrow to read more closely.

What do you think of Chip? Is he scummy, if so, why? Is he town, if so, why? Are you on the fence, if so, why? But just in general would you be willing to compromise lynch him?

[mutantdevle]

With Chip being hostile, I refer to posts like 812, 1493 and 1499 where Chip takes the attitude "I'm not answering your questions because I think you're dumb". This attitude does benefit neither town nor mafia, so I guess it's motivated by his inner personality and therefore genuine. (What does "genuine" mean anyway? It looks like a buzzword that people keep throwing around...)

Or he is scum and just couldn't come up with a reason for his fabricated read. We eventually settled on it being an OMGUS vote but he never actually said that and I was the one who said that. So basically, he has just accepted the reasoning I have given him as his reason for voting Viomi.