Newbie 1845 - A New Dawn Game Over

[Sunlit Diamond]

Inferno is at L-1. Please don't anyone be a complete idiot.

No i liked this game

Yeah, I like this game, too. PLEASE announce when you take someone to L-1 in the future. It's common courtesy.

[Aviqf]

Inferno is town

[RedFlavor]

Inferno is town

Huh

Why

[Sunlit Diamond]

Yeah I'd like some articulation on that statement. On any of your statements, really.

[Sunlit Diamond]

Also, reading your ISO, Dia, I'm having a hard time leaning either way with you. Some of your posts seem like scumhunting, but something about them makes me feel like they're written like you're watching from a distance. It all pings me for some reason, but I can't put my finger on why...

To back track a bit: if I had a dollar for every time someone has said this about me... If you can nail down your specific objection I can talk about it, but until then this is just vaguely mud stirring.

[sheepsaysmeep]

Also Red, I feel like you're

trying

to suicide in this game and it's weird.

he's like that as a player regardless of alignment

[Inferno390]

OMGUS

VOTE: inferno

Wait, are you saying that my vote on you is OMGUS or your vote on me is OMGUS?
Either way this vote is very naked and doesn't make me feel any better about you, Red.

Okay so wrt my scumread on Inferno it's a bunch of things.

1) The way he talks he's not like sorting the game he's making a show of stuff. Like it's really posturey and it reads as someone putting on a show for an audience.

F) The timing of this seems a little fishy. (Perhaps that's just me.) And Red wasn't that oblivious to his L2, was he? Could Red and Sheep be scumpartners doing a little RVS back and forth? Seems unlikely, considering this IS a Newbie game, but you never know...
G)Why would you RESTATE your vote, Sheep?

I write the first scumhunting post of the game. Sheep says it's forced. Then sheep asks ME, the writer of the post, if I think MY OWN post is forced. I tell him that I obviously think the post is not forced, because it's MY post. Then Sheep blatantly tells me my opinion is wrong as implies that I'm scum.

Stuff like this. It feels super not genuine and makes me think that he's scum putting on a show of having positions. If I had to put even more specific words I'd say that he's talking the way that my dad talks when he's lying. And there is some of that in his town game which initially gave me pause but it's definitely not nearly as trumped up as it is here where it feels super surreal. Like a big thing for me is him posing the questions to the audience to make a show that he's thinking about things, a big example of that can be found here

I'm not understanding this at all. The second post he quotes is literally me stating exactly what happened in the game. And the first is me trying to start reading off of RVS.

Also, Sunset seems to be lurking quite a bit proportionally and not very sure of herself. Just not very good or newbscum?

It's also weird just generally how he talks about Sunset. With most people he has and commits to a read of some sort on them, possibly more aggressively than is real, but with Sunset he goes the opposite way and waffles all over the place about them and it feels like it might be newbscum trying to put together real associatives by seeming like they're genuinely considering the possibility of them being scum. Even if she's town the whole thing is really out of place and it doesn't seem like it would be his real approach.

Sunset was ALSO waffling around a bit when I made this post. And she only had like 5 posts at the time. I don't understand how I'm supposed to not be unsure how to read Sunset's play here.

Also strongly scum indicative is

There's maybe a slight bit of scumhunting, but it's very broken up, and not really useful to the town.

Where he basically substitutes is useful to the town for scummy/fake and it's a common thing that comes from newbscum who aren't totally comfortable calling someone scummy.

But I've been calling sheep scum all game, and that is who this post he's quoting is talking about... and this is not the only reason I've called sheep scum either. This completely misrepresents the post.

I didn't want to seem overconfident and make a mistake.

What do you mean by 'make a mistake'? Town generally should not need to worry about making mistakes.

What I mean is that I don't want to do something stupid like getting a power role lynched day one. That counts as a mistake.

this seems like a power role claim.

This is also just super weird.

How is this weird?

First off, stop acting like an IC, because you're not, and you do not know everything about how to play this game. There are other people in this game who are IC's and there is a reason that they are IC's, and there is a reason that you're not an IC.
Second, so what you've basically said is that your vote is an OMGUS vote, because the only reason you're voting for me is because you don't like this post.
Third, how about you actually explain why you think this post is scummy instead of asking everyone else, because right now it looks like you're just shading this post as scummy to draw some heat off of my attack on you.

This actually really reads as a scum defensiveness, if he was town who thought that they were scum he shouldn't care so much that they're scumreading him?

How does this come off as defensive? This is me being aggressive against sheep. Because he basically voted me without giving a reason. So I called it out. I don't understand how this can be turned into a defensive post.

Also more recently and largely the nail in the coffin for me: I can't see a newer player seeing me and sunlit diamond as SvS.

Like if I were newer town who thought that I was scum I would think that Sunlit diamond is town 100% of the time. It doesn't really make sense that he thinks that I'm spending all this time buttering her up unless he thinks that it's next level play but he's given no indication that he thinks it's next level play, he just seems to think at face value that's what it looks like. And I can't believe that coming from newbtown. There's a very clear read through that I'm scum and that I'm kissing up to sunlit to get her on my side, there's really no read through I can think of that explains how he thinks that we're SvS and it feels like he's just looking for people to call scum.

VOTE: Inferno

I think I'm done, that's the lynch today.

This seems incredibly contradictory. I don't think it's next level play, but I do think the exchange could have been two scum setting up to get me lynched?

I'm voting for inferno because my experience of him is that he is very decisive in his reads and isn't afraid to go to the mat for what he believes- which I haven't seen here. It's very possible that is because he took the advice I gave him in Art Deco and is trying to moderate himself...but it's more probable that he is scum trying to push bad reads.

Definitely the first. I've been trying to watch myself this game and not end up in a giant 1v1 and stall the game out like in Deco Murders.
However, this confuses me because of these posts:

Inferno was so transparently, unfakeably, town in art deco it was painful. His 23 does not seem out of line with my experience there, but I'm curious to see him in a 1v1 here for that reason.

I'm good with pressure on Red. Inferno is still within what I know of his town meta.

I don't like Saul.

You've been saying that I'm within my town meta for most of the game, and now all of the sudden, I'm not? This makes no sense to me.
Plus, this accusation has been far from true because I've been pressuring sheep hard as scum for most of the game. In fact, my scumread has laid within Red/sheep/saul+RC slots almost the entire game. So how can you say that I'm not "very decisive in his reads and isn't afraid to go to the mat for what he believes"?

Then I noticed this:

The post pinged me because it felt staged. Why is it too early to hammer, exactly?

Which came before you posted this:

Inferno is at L-1. Please don't anyone be a complete idiot.

Which looks like you shading that it's still too early to hammer. So I don't understand why you would ask the first question at all. If it's too early to hammer now, why would it be not too early to hammer before now?

[Sunlit Diamond]

I'm walking so one quick point, I'll respond more in depth shortly: my L-1 post was to prevent a Iolhammer because Red failed to announce. Nothing to do with timing in phase.

[Sunlit Diamond]

Also Red, I feel like you're

trying

to suicide in this game and it's weird.

he's like that as a player regardless of alignment

Good to know, I'll reevaluate. I haven't been able to research meta for players I haven't played with, yet.

[sheepsaysmeep]

Inferno is town

this popin is really bad

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: SaulJoker

L-1 on Saul.
Hmm. It's too early to hammer. 5 days is still plenty of time to do some more hunting.
DIa, what are your thoughts on Sheep and I and our 1v1? I've noticed you haven't given your opinion on any of that for a bit.

That was L-1 I believe.

I don’t see either side right now and I think that you guys are more upset about the others play style than anything.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I just want the Saul slot lynched

But WHY?
And no, "just because is not a good awnser. While I agree that Saul's play was scummy to begin with, this is not Sul we're dealing wit hanymore. RC's play in the future might change your mind about that slot sometime in D2.
How about this. I'm also looking at saul's slot as scum right now, but we don't have enough to work off of to lynch the slot now that RC has moved in. How about looking at some different players and choose a potential canidate from someone who's not just replaced in?

I don’t think this is the right mindset to have right now. Was Saul a difficult read? Yes, but if you strongly feel the content that you did manage to understand is coming from scum, no replacement can change that.

And also, usually if a day is 15 pages long, it's long enough. I understand people don't like to be wrong but whatever minor information or details you're waiting on isn't worth the inertia it produces to stall the town. Getting it moving again can be so frustrating and hard. Town needs some momentum to stay engaged and active.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

With that being said, I don’t hammer town reads and I never have a problem with no lynching.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why is momentum such a concern in a game where you know that my being here is going to ratchet up the pace of the game anyway?

Frankly for 99% of players if you strongly enough feel the content from someone comes from scum that you're not willing to think about what a replacement does that's because you're confbiased and you need to get over it. Your advice is bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

LUV, if you think that Inferno and Sheep are both town then who do you think that scum is?
Sunlit, what's your read on LUV specifically?

[RadiantCowbells]

Creature, why did you vanish from existence when I showed up?

[Creature]

Because I'm playing on MU.

[sheepsaysmeep]

game related: im town
non game related: wait creature do you have time for a turbo rn

[Inferno390]

All in all, I'm starting to read Dia as scum harder now. There's definitely some contradictions between what he's saying now and previous posts, which is mighty odd.

Reading through his ISO again, there's also not nearly as much hunting as I previously thought. He also jumps on my wagon way too fast for my comfort.

Avi, I think you might be right and the saul slot is scum. RC's wall on me just has way too many holes to make sense.

MY scumreads are Dia, RC, and Red at this point.

[Inferno390]

EBWOP: I was about to ask where Uzi and Creature were lol.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can you stop playing on MU and quickhammer inferno for me?

[sheepsaysmeep]

MY scumreads are Dia, RC, and Red at this point.

bc im gud and you got scared of pushing me amirite

[Inferno390]

I just want the Saul slot lynched

But WHY?
And no, "just because is not a good awnser. While I agree that Saul's play was scummy to begin with, this is not Sul we're dealing wit hanymore. RC's play in the future might change your mind about that slot sometime in D2.
How about this. I'm also looking at saul's slot as scum right now, but we don't have enough to work off of to lynch the slot now that RC has moved in. How about looking at some different players and choose a potential canidate from someone who's not just replaced in?

I don’t think this is the right mindset to have right now. Was Saul a difficult read? Yes, but if you strongly feel the content that you did manage to understand is coming from scum, no replacement can change that.

And also, usually if a day is 15 pages long, it's long enough. I understand people don't like to be wrong but whatever minor information or details you're waiting on isn't worth the inertia it produces to stall the town. Getting it moving again can be so frustrating and hard. Town needs some momentum to stay engaged and active.

He was a difficult read, and I did read him as scummy. But there were plenty of other scummy players today, and I think that lynching the replacement without reading him is a really bad idea, because Saul could have just been playing really crappy. He did just site flake, after all.
That being said, I am reading RC as pretty scummy, so perhaps it's the right lynch for D1.

[RadiantCowbells]

And that's coming from trying to be pro-town and set a good example for people whose experience of being certain that someone is scum don't justify quicklynching ever RC but at this point I'm 95%+ on this being a scumflip and I think that there's a fairly high chance that a claim gets forced out of my slot if we don't make inferno happen now.

[Inferno390]

MY scumreads are Dia, RC, and Red at this point.

bc im gud and you got scared of pushing me amirite

No, becasue there are other people in the game right now who seem scummier to me, so you fell off of my radar.
Did you completely miss the post where I said I've probably been tunneling you too hard and that there are scummier players in the game that I think should be lynched?