Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Marquis]

VOTE: north

[Marquis]

This is so lame I regret it already

[Marquis]

Someone ttm

[Marquis]

Someone ttm

Hi! Why did you vote for north

Probably the same reason you did!

[Marquis]

Postie (Team Cuddly)

wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Lycanfire (eddie cane)
Llamarble (DEFCON)
Gamma Emerald (Relaxed Nature)
Cogito Ergo Sum (God Save the Black Goo)
Marquis (Make Papa Proud)
Tchill13 (Chillplay Bombahskiies)
EddieFenix (Queue Agents)
ActionDan (Who is John Galt?)
Thestatusquo (Dandy Irate Hoes brought to you by MATI energy)
Dunnstral (Backhanded Remarks)
LicketyQuickety (Spam Squad)
momo (Sauciety)

northsidegal (Serious Business)

rn

[Marquis]

We're already at page 2 keep it coming!

Oh and there's me

[Marquis]

Lol someone's projecting

[Marquis]

I'm town guys, bet

[Marquis]

For the record nsg is scum-tryharding as opposed to postie town-tryharding. The difference is in the reactiveness (?) or general gist of that

[Marquis]

Also, we should probably lynch one of the players who has already posted today.
Ooh that makes me sound like scum trying to look town by narrowing the lynch to a small pool I belong to.
Or maybe I'm scum trying to protect my buddies because I'm a known unlynchable!
We should probably do it anyway.
TOWN:
Llamarble

Northside
ActionDan
Dunnstral - possibly first page bussing yay!

Marquis
Postie
:SCUM

Please hold as I forward you to a representative

[Marquis]

Never mind the representative was useless.

[Marquis]

I'm just going to say flat out that I'm going to feel relatively useless for a good bit as I first try to look at unexplainable intangibles and then attempt to default to meta reading people and from there fail because I don't really know anyone here at all and didn't have enough initiative to make a switch in pregame.

The representative is still not helping but is trying to help even though I feel guilty

[Marquis]

Not liking how nsg solely focuses on the postie responses and that feels solid enough to go off of.

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

[Marquis]

That last sentence and "representative" shenanigans are why Marquis is scum.

Hi! I don't really believe you're scumreading me, but not in an explicitly scummy way. Partially because it feels like you're making it up as you go along as if to move things forward, but if we can move past this and let me try to read you from afar (and probably at a significant delay), that'd be great!

Also if I totally read this wrong, unvote Postie at least

Not liking how nsg solely focuses on the postie responses and that feels solid enough to go off of.

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

so you think that i'm both tryharding and that i'm trying to coast by solely focusing on questions?
don't you think it's a little early in the game to be saying that, especially given that like four people have posted so far?

not sure if all of my teammates will be reading this game but i know a few will and will probably share their thoughts with me.

I think you were trying to find things where they aren't, and when directly engaged with Postie regressing to a reactive scum playstyle. These are two separate things, that I'll admit I'm still not entirely sure isn't just me throwing things at the wall for the sake of a comparatively dull game, but regardless the general vibe is scummy against a really townvibing Postie.

[Marquis]

And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.

I feel like this is more a product of you not understanding current MS playerbase. Which holds for the spam comment I didn't quote.

You're still laying it on and contributing to a much stronger null-because-i-want-it-to-be-null-read now.

[Marquis]

Anyway pagetop and bye

[Marquis]

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

[Marquis]

Rl stress I'll post tomorrow

[Marquis]

What I am seeing is that Maquise Promised content and has not delivered. I see no excuse for this as of yet.

Marquis

is scummy

and I'm certainly not going to let the fact that he's lurking work to his defense. Scum do it and they do it often. Because it works.

1) i got sick
2) it's literally been a day
3) again it's literally been a day. i know i didn't post when i said i would (oh no someone didn't keep their word on ms.net) but like. come on. it's not 2005. lurking isn't a scumtell (if anything the scum meta is spamposting but i'll cut off because i'm not sure if that applies here yet). town has just as much motivation to not want to deal with things. case in point i pretty much played overwatch all last night because i really didn't feel like coming into d1 scumreads/votes on me and trying to defend myself.

also this seems like the kind of playerlist to hate self analysis/meta but i am! really really not good at being pressured because i'm really bad at defending myself other than being sarcastic and i hate how it distracts me from trying to get unbiased reads and sort the game. again nobody here i'm familiar enough with but cheet aero and spiff can vouch @ respective team partners.

anywayy i have a lot to get to irl tonight because i was pretty much out of it the whole day. but afterward i'll read up and start to sort things. i guess.

pls don't wagon me (any more) for the next hour or so. ty!

[Marquis]

also i blame the sudden reintroduction of mafia into my life (and the dickwaving that comes with it) for getting me overstressed and sick but that's more of a side note irrelevant to anything just thought yall should know!!!!

[Marquis]

oops i lied i took melatonin see yall in 8 hrs

[Marquis]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

[Marquis]

llamarble aggressively null

this was more my wording but to clarify, it was more pre/early game: skrew said llama probably picked this game because he's known as a good classic scumhunter, which i thought meant was a town lean, but clarified he didn't know how to read him/meta and just knew him. it was more of a reputation based "oh it's obvious he'd pick this" wifom thing. so back and forth with reasons on both

personally i was relying on that for a short while because i'm really really aggressively bad at reading that whole set of older classic-ish players who i don't know well? if that makes sense? idk
it's probably more of an intimidation and paranoia thing more than anything else that makes me want to default scumread them because they'll always be able to pull one over me

[Marquis]

sidenote i feel like it's weird that i'm not obviously town rn? like in the least egotistical way possible (if that's even possible but u know what i mean.) not because my play has been a shining beacon of towniness but because i'm usually left alone on d1. it might be because this is the first game i've purposely joined in a long time that i'm not in with someone i have a history of ez townbloc-ing with but it also kind of makes me feel like there's some kind of agenda because otherwise i'm not a typical textbook town player.

Marquis(4) ~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral

like looking at the votes on me gun to my head i'd bare minimum pick lickety as the scum agenda one but that's because i've been seeing mediumlong post after mediumlong post and i know he has the capability to play this way as scum which makes me wary, as well as being opportunistic at the same time while not

too

obvious about it. but i'm still concerned that's too meta oriented as opposed to his actual play here which i haven't had the chance to really read in real time.

idk i kind of expected it to be easier than this? in the selfish way. going for the game with lynch one two scum and done while floating. need more real time reading so i'll read while at work then?

i think this turned out into me admitting i don't currently have any value to bring to town other than that i'm a warm town body who when further heated up becomes a potentially delicious roasted tomato full of juicy squirty accuracy. again in the least egotistical way possible.

i also feel like i'm talking past people but that's my fault. this wasn't the most productive stream of consciousness moment bc my dumb ass decided to start it without even attempting to full read but i'll post it anyway.

god i really need to read

pls don't vote me more i'll def have more time friday bc i dont have a nightlife still

[Marquis]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

Oooookkkkaaaaayyyyyy.....

So where does that leave us with trying to sort you exactly?

i think i half responded to this.

the only thing i don't really like about you rn besides you voting me is that you're on that while making a bunch of content posts. if i had to throw a dart at the wall of "scum motivation" i'd say because it's easy to vote park on me rn while i've provided relatively less to work with in midgame, and at the same time as voting me throwing post after post out there to provide analysis walls while going for the low fruit. but i explicitly don't want to commit to a scumread because 1) i'm extremely wary rn of my biases towards meta based reads when i don't have a solid town core to work with and 2) i need to have a townread to work off of and idk how i feel about postie and nsg because it's been so long.

as self centered as it is if somebody could get really town while i'm here it'd really help!! ttm

[Marquis]

In other words I am Scum because I have the potential to be Scum. Brilliant, class A work there

at the risk of being opportunistic and... naive(??) the scumread grew because i made it clear how shallow my opinion was and yet you felt the need to jump on and repurpose my words for an agenda anyway

[Marquis]

hold up not voting. gonna read.

[Marquis]

I'm alive hold up

I legitimately will be around and reading tonight after cooking dinner. I know I keep putting this off but I owe it at least to my teammates to reciprocate here

[Marquis]

Limiting myself to the last 5 pages sigh

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

Yeah, things aren't really going quite as planned; I thought things would develop more helpfully. The main reasons I found Marquis scummy very early on were 1) his general awkward tone early on and 2) the whole "representative" affectation. I think Signs and Void from last Team Mafia is pretty important context here - his early posts here feel really similar. I think both of those things are more significant than his lurking although his lurking has also felt scum-motivated (but I'd be more hard-pressed to explain the nuts and bolts of that feeling).

Lol. All I remember from that game is that it made me never want to pick scum again, if given the choice. Even from skimming it looks nothing like my play here, and also nothing like my town game. Too tryhard

For the record CES is in the same pool as Llama for me aura-wise. Older reputable player I don't want to bother reading, don't touch early on, see if one dies, etc etc. But this seems like a massive reach compared to Llama pulling out the talking about teammates thing first (which I'm still half convinced was a fake read either way for the sake of having a scumread)

Also I forgot to mention this earlier on but I would expect anyone choosing scum in this game specifically is either inexperienced (Gamma, nsg still maybe?), overconfident (Lick), or one of the older set (Llama, CES, Dan). That's more distracting than helpful right now, but Gamma and Lick fit both my expected persona and my teammates and I find them both decent candidates for scum. (And tbh they have more reads than I do iirc but I'll relay them tomorrow when on a computer)

Will try to do a full sort tomorrow but rn I have Gamma and Lick as scumreads/lynches I'd be ok with and Postie as mine and Skrew's heavy early townread. That's extremely limited but going to go off of that after work. Don't do anything rash etc etc, but can't complain if they get lynched while I'm out etc etc etc

Also I'm realizing I'm signing off after having said I would read a whole 5 pages lol

[Marquis]

Was going to post, thread was closed, good night time,,,

Also noticing Gamma is voting LQ who is voting Tchill???? LAter

[Marquis]

Skimming while freezing weather walking in preparation for actually coming through with a read tonight

Need to say before I forget that it feels like lq and gamma keep distancing, just not sure if it's so obvious because they're scum or obvious because they're town, I'm only partially applying burden of skill here. Oops

[Marquis]

UNVOTE: think I forgot to earlier

Pedit if you're really town what you can do is stop posting so much words : )

[Marquis]

VOTE: LQ

Sorry I'm so inactive, placeholder-ing here because at least my team is seeing it too

[Marquis]

Also I'll try to build the motivation to catch up and sort when home

[Marquis]

Well Bins says lynch Screenplay but is sparse on the details (and also I admittedly haven't read a single one of his posts)

[Marquis]

Well Bins says lynch Screenplay but is sparse on the details (and also I admittedly haven't read a single one of his posts)

As far as I see, there is literally no reason to TR you.

And didn't I explicitly say that myself? Lol

You don't need to point things out that everyone already sees. You keep doing this and making grabby hands at every possible discussion point that paints me in a bad light. and it's part of why I'm so much more confident you're scum despite me being so behind on everything else. It doesn't feel organic at all, because you're practically ignoring me until I do something that you can use to continue painting your narrative.

Get it? It feels like you decided first that I was scum, and only afterwards you're trying to bring up things to justify and/or strengthen that sentiment among the Town. Maybe it's only blatant to me because I'm on the receiving end of it. But from what I remember every time I reiterate my scumread on you, you respond with something to the effect that I'm scummy. And yet it seems like you barely ever talk about me otherwise, whenever I check in I'm always an afterthought until I say something about you and then it's like "I just remembered Marquis is scum guys"

This is probably slightly inexact. But that's the total vibe I get. Even if I can't be as active as I used to be my opinion still matters, no matter how much mud you're trying to throw on it. And if there's anyone I've been paying attention to this game, it's you - because up until Davsto joined you're the player I know the best here, the player I think I can read better than the unknowns, and the player I'm pretty sure is better at Town than this.

[Marquis]

Marquiz read on T-chill and Postie? Why are you not motivated?

Wouldn't consider lynching Postie until LYLO tbh. This is a holdover from earlygame because I haven't read much recently I'll admit
Tchill/Screenplay I legit haven't seen anything from - I thought it was suspicious how Tchill disappeared once they started getting voted until I remembered I did the same lol (for the record it was mostly unintentional bc I got sick but there were times when I logged in saw the wagon on me sighed and logged out). Screenplay have not read into at all. As for the wagon on them I'm not convinced enough to join esp when it could be a quickhammer I'm too lazy to check for

Also Shea is mine and Skrew's top townread ftr - was going to do a full sort but saying it now in case I dont get to it. Closely followed by Postie

And as opposed to a year ago I've graduated and am working Normal Adult hours, so when I come home sometimes I don't have time and sometimes I'm too tired to even open the laptop

I think I still enjoy mafia I just didn't realize how hard it is to play when you can't check in and quick skim every hour. New sympathy from me

Why isn't your avatar showing I miss it

VOTE: LQ

Sorry I'm so inactive, placeholder-ing here because at least my team is seeing it too

Depending on where Marquis' vote was before this might be a saving throw vote

Listen I know you're either new or scum but I would hope everyone else who knows me enough knows this is shallow at best.

[Marquis]

And by that I mean despite me having lost confidence in my scumgame, had I the balls to willingly go into this game as scum I'm not that dumb

"I know it, you know it, everybody/ppl with a joindate before 2016 knows it" to quote t_d even

[Marquis]

=========[}
{]=========

Unvote, vote: Srceenplay

Thank you CES.

Oh lol

Tbh I didnt even check votecount just assumed the wagon was still on that slot and since on-the-ball-Math hadnt locked this d1 was still up

[Marquis]

Marquis (Make Papa Proud) -- 1 Prod

Thestatusquo (Dandy Irate Hoes brought to you by MATI energy)
Postie (Team Cuddly)

Ranmaru, Sauce, momo (Sauciety)

Llamarble (DEFCON)
Cogito Ergo Sum (God Save the Black Goo)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Lycanfire (eddie cane) — 1 Prod
Tchill13 (Chillplay Bombahskiies) -- 1 Prod - lynched?
EddieFenix (Queue Agents)
ActionDan (Who is John Galt?) -- 1 Prod
Dunnstral (Backhanded Remarks)

northsidegal (Serious Business) - ??? have not seen a single post from her since rl day 1

Gamma Emerald (Relaxed Nature)



LicketyQuickety (Spam Squad)

[Marquis]

quicksort in case i missed the lock

middle section is all interchangeable and null except for llama and ces who specifically are in that special pile i talked about earlier.

actually can prob move ces to his own section below the nulls but above northside. still don't like his s&v based earlier scumread on me, feels either badly read or fake in a more contrived way than llama's null-fake early read on me

[Marquis]

If we were scum together most of these words would likely be in the scum PT

nope
if we were scum together it'd be in the discord because at least i get notifications for that

[Marquis]

barring scum wanting to go for a no info kill I'm pretty sure shea/llama/postie is dying tonight. seen too much of ces and dan and eddie and i thrown around as a lynch option between the older set.

if gamma is somehow town (because he's in that playstyle analysis spot where I'm either really really right or really really really wrong with him) he needs to get it together and stop taking the wiki as some kind of bible.

rn i don't feel secure enough in any of my reads besides shea and lq and maybe postie so once i finally manage a full read (don't expect anything) i'll try to forcibly sort the nulls. into do-lynch and do-not-lynch-just-yet piles if i have to.

[Marquis]

oh and this is all assuming tchill slot flips town and nothing changes for me gameview-wise, simply based on odds and the fact i haven't found anything at all of his scummy (in the end, at least) that i can even remember

[Marquis]

yeahhhhhh

If you're scum I'm confident enough in your skill level that you're "lynch marquis d2" was a genuine attempt to set up my mislynch day 2

If you're town I'm confident enough in your skill level that I think you genuinely believe I'm scum for those shallow textbook reasons

problem is this is a circular analysis and the whole point is to figure out whether you're town or scum but tbh i just wanna lynch you so I don't have to care. eventually maybe.

[Marquis]

that your* <--correction to first sentence

god

[Marquis]

Don't take that all as an insult btw

Though I can see how it'd be hard not to

[Marquis]

I didn't say you were Scum, I said there is no reason to Town read you - there is a difference. If you don't understand why it's a problem that people can't Town read you then you are failing at one of the basic things in this game. I point this out, because I want to have a reason to TR you, but I just don't. This has a psychological impact on not only me, but every other Town player in the game. Stop being completely Null and start acting like a Townie.

It's as if you're not even reading my posts

Spoiler:

I don't think you're actually reading my posts
and if you are you're purposefully talking past them

[Marquis]

I didn't say you were Scum, I said there is no reason to Town read you - there is a difference.

Also this is bs because you have totally said I'm scum. And even if you haven't it was an open implication that only served to help along a potential ML on me

[Marquis]

Who the heck even

[Marquis]

5 Relaxed Nature Gamma Emerald Aristophanes Aeronaut Something_Smart Fro99er

You are the only person in this list who would willingly pick scum, besides S_S maybe. and only a very light maybe.

Forgive me if you fake being enraged again because I'm saying this only serves to strengthen the scum-odds of my read on you.

[Marquis]

I don't think either of you are being productive right now OR accurately assessing the other.

It's ok I'm leaving

[Marquis]

I didn't say you were Scum, I said there is no reason to Town read you - there is a difference. If you don't understand why it's a problem that people can't Town read you then you are failing at one of the basic things in this game. I point this out, because I want to have a reason to TR you, but I just don't. This has a psychological impact on not only me, but every other Town player in the game. Stop being completely Null and start acting like a Townie.

It's as if you're not even reading my posts

Spoiler:

I don't think you're actually reading my posts
and if you are you're purposefully talking past them

I quoted and responded to the first post I saw by you because it was just another time where someone underestimated how particular I was with my words. I haven't read your other posts on this page. Still, there is a Scum motive there to not even show up for pretty much all of D1 and then just unload everything during Twilight. This is another reason I can't just say "Oh, Marquis is contributing finally, they must be Town."

What I say is usually some basic shit, but I say basic shit because you have to get the basics before you can do more elaborate things. I am not the best at analyzing play, I admit that. I am not really a good player because I am a good player.. I am a good player because I bring shit up that otherwise wouldn't be itt. So while my solving ability is probably sub par, I am actually a player with an above average win rate because I bring content to the game.

Blah blah long story short I know you're a more analytical, less gut-based player than me as Town.

And none of what you've done regarding my slot this game reflects that. It's all mud. A shallow puddle of mud.

Ok bye out for real now

[Marquis]

VOTE: LQ

I didn't read overnight even though I should have

Team all agrees on this tho so I'm parking and riding wheeeeeee

Also liking nsg slightly more because that's pretty much exactly how I feel about where I am with this game. That and someone else please obvtown soon so I have a stepping stone to get back in

[Marquis]

VOTE: EddieFenix

Obv. Also don't think it's a coincidence that the only other person expressing serious interest in this lynch was nightkilled. Me dead + Llamarble alive would've probably been more dangerous for Eddie than the other way round.

It's absolute Bull Shit to say Llama was killed because they were looking at Eddie. Like seriously...

Agreed. He was obvtown, simple as that.

Stop the presses, Mastina hath deep dove my earhole (more or less CAPS LOCKED in my PT lol)

Ran and Marquis are 100%, dead to rights, scum. No need to question it.

UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: Marquis

Seeing as I townread Ran yeah I'm questioning this a little. Marquis vote is good though.
VOTE: Marquis

Trying to draw away from Postie.

What do you mean by this?

Fair enough. Later on, yes. LQ, I want a full reads list from you too.

LQ you are focusing a lot on Postie right now. I want a reads list.

Kinda obvious you're trying to draw heat away from someone.

It sure is convienient for you that your townread on me magically reversed itself to exactly line up with the kind of argument you needed to appeal to LQ

Hmmm.... Shade.... I don't need it. It's quite cold where I am atm. The sun would be nice.

However, I also bring word from Mastina. From Town to OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE

Town:

ActionDan
Dunnstral
Davsto
northsidegal
Thestatusquo
Lycanfire

Town/Null
LicketyQuickety
Cogito Ergo Sum

Null
Gamma Emerald

Scum/Null
Postie

OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE
Marquis
Ranmaru

We lynch the last 2 with fire, we win as town cause those are the 2 that are obv scum to her.

Can mastina explain why? And has mastina played with Ranmaru? I know both are older players but I'm not sure, and I don't care to do that type of meta dive when not alt-hunting
Also wasn't I in your townpile before, what happened?

Vote: LQ

Why not continue voting Marquis?

[LQ > Eddie > Marquis > | AD > Dunn | NSG > CES > Davsto | Lycan > Postie > Gamma > TSQ > Ranmaru]

Forgot to add Postie. I think we have this game in the bag. Seeing LQ and Eddie make desperate plays seems like we have cornered them.

I am pretty on board with what you're sayin about Eddie but I'm not going to condemn him just yet, as I see it mastina is just going insane in his team PT and her trusts her
And honestly while I don't like how Lycan has been reading me maybe I've been tunneled on him a bit based on that.

I really really hate this post tho. It just feels... blatantly scum. And even though that'd normally be a turnoff Gamma strikes me as the kind of player it could really be that simple for.

Like while I'm feeling LQ vibes the most Gamma just keeps ping ping pinging like right up in my ear. It's aggravating because it both makes me want to lecture him about how to read people and simultaneously shut up so there isn't the whole giggly scumteam throwing an egg in my face thing.

[Marquis]

Stop the presses, Mastina hath deep dove my earhole (more or less CAPS LOCKED in my PT lol)

Ran and Marquis are 100%, dead to rights, scum. No need to question it.

UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: Marquis

LOL

[Marquis]

ran i'll get to you in a min.

[Marquis]

pedit - or apparently like... right now

However, I also bring word from Mastina. From Town to OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE

Town:

ActionDan
Dunnstral
Davsto
northsidegal
Thestatusquo
Lycanfire

Town/Null
LicketyQuickety
Cogito Ergo Sum

Null
Gamma Emerald

Scum/Null
Postie

OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE
Marquis
Ranmaru

We lynch the last 2 with fire, we win as town cause those are the 2 that are obv scum to her.

VOTE: eddie

Ok so: while I absolutely believe mastina told you to convey exactly this in your discord/pt, 1) I think now even without being able to read you there's a good chance of this being scum motivated more than town motivated and 2) there's no way this is helpful to town at all

first off
mastina as town: likes to make these loud self-important big read statements that usually turn out wrong, especially the reads on marquis
mastina as scum: always treats marquis as an easy mislynch, and still likes to make these loud self-important big fake read statements

I don't see why you think this is convincing at all considering mastina is well known for being wrong with these more than right. And I feel like for all of her bluster she knows this, especially in a game

• 1) she's not in and i don't remember her being invested in at all earlier though it's plausible i missed something 2) and anyway is in day two which makes it even more out of place.
  
  in my experience these big reason-starved readlists of hers usually come early day 1 as town. that is. unless she's scum and is trying to go for a big dramatic action to save her/her teammate's hide because right now it's not relevant at all, except for the fact that it came right when eddie was about to get wagoned hard, and trying to rely on her name+what she thinks of her scumhunting reputation to draw attention away is exactly something she'd do as scum.
  
  it also looks like her reads are statused as of day 1, despite the day 2 posting. it's almost like she took those slots from an entirely different gamestate before the d1 mislynch and didn't bother to account for any changes - apart from the fact that it's practically reverse of my reads right now
  it just looks like she hasn't taken into account the screenplay wagon and flip at all
  never mind i was mistaken on wagon composition - but it still feels like it's coming from a wtf-timeline form of the gamestate. like not realistic at all.
  
  basically i don't believe this sudden readslist comes at all from a town-trying-to-solve-the-game mindset but feels way more like scum going for a hail mary desperation play. which again is a scum mastina move through and through.
  
  and also i noticed postie's case on eddie while not fully convincing to me because it still seems like something potentially characteristic of old school town rather than scum. meaning that it's one of those things that kind of felt too obvious and eddie's a player i can see that happening to as both town and scum. but anyway this time here mastina is way more readable.

[Marquis]

right now I think I'm at

[Marquis]

oops tab entered

Marquis

Thestatusquo - the only problem is that they're all genuinely experienced and good players but not in the old stuffy way, which means that even though i think they're all actively pushing the game forward and look like they're trying to solve things, i'm recognizing right here for future review that all 3 could easily throw egg in my face with a scumflip, to re-use a metaphor.
Postie
Ranmaru

~~~nulls currently unsorted

Cogito Ergo Sum - literally no read despite seeing. tbh somehow i magically thought once one of him/llama died it'd magically make it easier to read them both but lolnope. all i remember reading and having an immediate opinion on was him calling my last team mafia performance similar to this, which is so far out of the ballpark of even plausible that it just feels. like. he could be either out of touch town and scum testing the waters, though at this point it looks fully committed to me more than anything.

tl;dr: i'm paying attention here because it feels like i'm all he talks about and it annoys the hell out of me. but there's still that hesitance due to that certain old player aura and my natural inclination to secretly-even-from-myself-mildly-omgus my non-lock scumreads. by any means not a priority of mine or something i'm trying to actively care about, just waiting for something that locks the read either way.

northsidegal - special null category of early mild scumread and disappearance that kind of canceled out from having similar viewpoint thing. i sort of remember and kind of buy into postie's thing about her not wanting to pick scum

wgeurts - literally no read, have not seen
Lycanfire - literally no read, have not seen
ActionDan - literally no read, have not seen
Dunnstral - literally no read, have not seen

~~~

Gamma Emerald - leaning more scum than town rn. it's just getting more and more difficult to apply the whole "but would scum REALLY do that" line of read-self-checking here.

EddieFenix - also reading through his other posts, one talking about him not believing i don't have time to be here based on him having time, which feels like a bs copout let's-throw-more-spontaneous-shit-on-it-so-i-have-a-reason-to-stay-invested-in-this-marquis-counterwagon-"scumread" too
LicketyQuickety - not sure about order here because Eddie's play rn is fresh up holy shit scum thermometer. still do not want to leave alive by any means but priority is up in the air. need to full sort


in short the problem is i have a lot of reads this game which i feel like could be both really town or really scum, or both mildly town or mildly scum.
once again if someone could obvtown in that way that "just isn't something scum would say" that i like and give me a reads foothold that would be really really helpful. sucks but. i'll know it once i see it.
and preferably out of the null pool for good measure.

[Marquis]

right now I think I'm at

What is this?

Yes I know it's not explicit here but it also just keeps feeling like you're scum who's forgetting how you're supposedly to be currently treating me (A: player who you know is town and are treating like town, B: someone who you've made sure to reinforce in-thread multiple times things like "he could be scum guys!" "don't forget while marquis is posting that there is no reason to townread him!" and qualifying what amounts to basically setting me up for an easy mislynch/wagon you can join as "oh but i never said i scumread him ")

[Marquis]

Marquis I probably don't need to tell you this but you are really out of touch with the game right now
Neither you nor anyone else should be taking your particularly reads seriously when you've barely been playing or reading

for the record this is the very first game i've ever played where i can't just check up on the thread and skim throughout the day like every 30-60 min.

i'm not trying to qualify myself for special treatment because i think me being town is still something that should be coming through in spite of that. which clearly it's not. i know my activity is usually a lot better as town (and to be fair to myself, as scum too) but this is kind of a wakeup call for me. because the only reason i willingly chose this game was because at 12:3-lynch-2 i thought it'd be the easiest option with my reduced activity - realizing now my play is very reliant on role based reading and spec and that's why i often stick to themes.

i even would have switched day 1 if there weren't certain people i didn't want to play with.

and again my inactivity isn't alignment indicative in case someone is still scumreading me for the stupid "lurking" thing. even though i'm very very very much town this game. in the past i very much did (and still do) like to lurk as town when it was convenient for me.

i'm rereading this to make sure it makes sense and that i'm conveying this clearly because it matters to me, and also realizing that's not at all what you asked/said, but i typed it up anyway lmao.

[Marquis]

re:postie to actually respond i know i'm out of touch and i've kept saying that. i'm making the effort to try and sort things like this though in hopes i'll naturally get more invested.

but that doesn't invalidate my scumreads on players like lq and gamma who i've both seen and interacted with while i was here. and it's not like people magically act from a different mindset when i'm absent vs when i'm here.

Marquis: WGEURTS has evolved into DAVSTO a while ago just so you know.

...which is still a completely null slot for me despite having played more with him than others
i remember seeing him in the past pages but nothing that jumped out at me
which for a player i know can obvtown and would very much like to see obvtown, bothers me slightly but not enough to want to cull the null herd or even widen my scum focus past 3 atm

[Marquis]

Marquis has been the most underwhelming player in this whole game. If Marquis wants to insult my intelligence I can do that too.

I find Marquis' reads completely uninspired and lacking any kind of original thought whatsoever. Furthermore, I think all Marquis has going for them is their charisma. She is just so blah and just basically there. The fact they are so wrong on me I see as more Scum motivated than Town motivated. I play with Marquise in my first newbie game so Marquis has reason to believe I am an easy lynch. IDEK what Marquis is looking at in my play that tells her that I am Scum. It's just a lot of pandering, in fact, that's the way I see all of Marquis' reads.

Pretty much everything you say we pretty much just have to believe you or not.

i never insulted your intelligence.
iirc you identified me as scum that game and got me lynched, not you. you've played with me more besides.
while i don't expect you to be able to read me perfectly each time it's certainly not a point i'm putting in your favor that you supposedly find almost every single one of my posts "non-town".
and the potshots at me whenever i actually have the time to be here and make the effort to try to solve things only look like you trying to shut me down, and keep me in the same low-involvement state that scum would probably relish. not for my skill as a player but for my (past-ish) ability to be an active+loud town voice in the game.

[Marquis]

VOTE: LQ

yeah rn I'd rather rely on a massive direct read than a read through a team partner.

[Marquis]

Willing to lynch LQ or Eddie preferably LQ.

And yes it's convenient that they're like the two biggest wagons besides me, deservedly so.

[Marquis]

Marquis has been the most underwhelming player in this whole game.

and given how much you like to talk about me this is just straight up a lie for the purpose of justifying a scumread on me after the fact.

i think even purely objectively my play as of late has been much more present and probably accurate, compared to like, idk, inactiondan.

so @ all now - stop letting scum!LQ perpetuate this myth that "marquis isn't here and when marquis is here his reads mean nothing because marquis wasn't here earlier".

particularly @ postie too since you basically said it outright yourself.

[Marquis]

I don't like how the game has shifted into another dichotomy. My vote stays for now.

"I don't like how the game has shifted into a dichotomy, so I'll continue to keep my vote on the mislynch wagon between the 2 leading wagons, which further perpetuates this dichotomy that I just said I don't like"

[Marquis]

@Ran - Skrew wants to know why you scumread all 3 of me, LQ, and Eddie. which actually makes me curious by proxy.

also other skrew musings scrolling back a bit - also kind of liked nsg wanting to be asked questions, still thinks she's coasting, thinks lq's play is (paraphrased) too simple minded to be town, thinks eddie is very scummy but can see him being very scummy as town too.
basically alignment of my own thoughts which helps here but also... doesn't. other than to strengthen both pointers in either direction.

[Marquis]

EddieFenix(4) ~ LicketyQuickety, Postie, Thestatusquo, Davsto
Marquis(3) ~ EddieFenix, Gamma Emerald, Cogito Ergo Sum

like even with me and ran voting lq this is very obviously a dichotomy.

and i still don't know how people are even entertaining lynching me over lq or even eddie for that mastina series of wtf -
i'm explicitly scumreading everyone on my wagon other than CES because it's more easy to believe it stems from him holding a different mafia-the-game mindset and simply not understanding my play while still being town. and even then i know that's nothing i should be using as a townread basis which is why i'm purposely keeping him low priority for now.

[Marquis]

what she thinks I should be doing if what I'm doing is so wrong earlier

i think if you're town the way you look at mafia is too by-the-book and you see things that scum obviously would not do and that town are more realistically likely to do, as things that scum would actually do.
i think if you're scum you think this is how to look town because this is a method of playing it safe.

@all again i have a certain limit for how much "too scummy to be scum" i can apply to a read and still be able to take it seriously. and it feels like almost every time i step back into this game gamma is intent on ringing that bell and adding onto the count. it's literally so often it's uncanny.

the only reasons i'm not voting for him is because other than that i like wagons and have stronger read priorities, i'm a fake and can't keep "too scummy to be scum" in my pants. in terms of settling-on-a-lynch reasons, it tends to be my last resort because i put more stock in that one solitary reason to townread him than i'd like to admit.

[Marquis]

I'm heading out rn but it's hilarious how you couldn't possibly misrepresent my play any harder lol. It reeks of desperation

Tempted to vote switch again but gonna hold off
Feels like a bunch of people are ignoring LQ too and are just letting him exist without an opinion on his posts

[Marquis]

And for all your emotion and over-the-top tone re: your supposed scumread on me, it's incredibly difficult to believe it's genuine when this read came from mastina. In other words I flat out don't believe the read on me is genuinely that strong when you only even switched focus to me because of one of mastina's random-ass "readslist"s. It feels way more like you know you have to stick to me as an only viable alternative to your mislynch... other than your scumpartner LQ.

[Marquis]

And I'm gonna be late lol but lastly I feel you're also projecting re: "a spark got him active again!" Which is lame and can be used to discredit any town trying to find a foothold in this game

[Marquis]

Expect a ketchup tomorrow

[Marquis]

This is a prod dodge. I just really don't feel like posting right now.

I'll come back when in a better mindset.

[Marquis]

Once again would prefer LQ lynch but Eddie is my next bet anyway. Don't think there's been any credible defense of the mastina thing either (from anyone much less eddie himself who ignored my case) and just feels like scumpartners left him out to dry with how scummy the posts were. Like it wasn't even a one off both series of posts from him fit the same scum mindset I expected.

kind of noticing only opposition to it is from people continuing to vote me? Still dislike preflip associatives but in this case it also makes total sense considering I'll admit it feels like I'm still in the position to get MLed today

That was confusing but what I mean is usually I look at what scum would be doing in this situation if the main wagon was scum but in this instance I see strong cases for scum both joining and scum chainsawing via me??? As in Eddie's mastina summon was scummy to the point of being l o l but I feel like scum would be in the position where they think a lot of MLs are available - even besides me there's not a lot of solidly locktown players and it feels like a lot of ppl are either blending into the background or being suspected by a few others :/

I don't really know what to do to fix that on my end other than keep waiting to actually see someone have that moment and that's taking my activity into account. And nothing has really changed w where I stand rn but then that's a given with me being away so much.

Also someone ask me questions or give me something to read bc I'm just straight up too exhausted to try and be proactive rn. Bbl tonight

[Marquis]

On [Eddie, Marquis, NSG] team, I want to mention that Marquis's #24 is weird and feels like he voted North to distance.

I think that is the team, and when I say that, I'm saying 'related to this team'. It's more of an interaction between Marquis and North, and if Eddie flips scum I want people to keep that post in mind so it helps their reads tomorrow. I've already explained why I think NSG may be scum with him.

I initially voted north because I thought she was way too awkward and tryhard for page 1
but tbh that read kind of faded into the distance (...as we both did)

[Marquis]

Also I've said it before but I would 100% not be in this game if I were scum.

Like I'll admit I maybe, maybe

might

have picked scum in another game if given the option but 12v3lynch2 is absurdly townsided and I wanted the ez carry option above all. Of course that's neg utility but rn I feel like I should be at least more obviously town than half the playerlist only hampered by inactivity, and even that's partially due to inactivity too

[Marquis]

note to self to read ces, nsg, dav.

buttttttt not tonight I'm going to sleep now tho

[Marquis]

I'll be here later tonight. Going to try and do a full sort finally w team help.

[Marquis]

Committing myself to actually catching up tonight

Sorry I'm total deadweight, clearly haven't been feeling mafia lately. But it's too late to replace anyway

[Marquis]

will elab more when less tired but screw thinks dav is making the most sense, lq is still holy shit scum and doesn't like applying "too scummy to be scum" but if he weren't so focused on that would go for Dunn because seems both opportunistic and having lacked votes or attention for it earlier which is a red flag. which is pretty much where I was at in terms of scum reads at the end of yesterday and kind of am now if I was. like. confident in anything bar the shea postie town locks that still feel good. ran would be up there but I remember having a side thought yesterday about it feeling like he was trying to reopen the Lynch pool for the future and shading common townreads.

Only stance I have rn is that shea is remaining townread, want to reread dav and get that sync vibe and also would be voting lq but I need to relook at my reads as a whole instead of tunnel visioning

Ask qs also it'll prob help me get back in after this wknd. BBl

[Marquis]

prod dodge
well for the most part
I know my lack of play has contributed to the lynch and don't really see how I can be more town to stop it
really not sure where to go from here other than dunn and ran looking opportunistic with this
lq read mellowed out. will admit I kind of rage look at his posts tho so idk if emotion based
probably Dunn and ran for win actually? really expected him to be dead rn with the whole general townread but not ruffling feathers thing. also voted me right after I first expressed suspicion of him so it feels like scum trying to rush it along before I elab or grow that read
anyway
prob not gonna get to a sort for a day or two when I feel more into playing

sorry @team mostly. I think townwin is still possible but the detachment really spread like a disease.

[Marquis]

VOTE: ranmaru for posterity and because it feels the most Real rn.

[Marquis]

oh also gamma went back to the town spectrum of things. I only really have him and shea as do not lynches.
I guess if I'm still alive later I'll do a dav analysis tho

[Marquis]

also pretend I'm not me when I say it feels like literally everyone is fine with my Lynch???? like there are other lurkers I can think of and yet that should be a massive red flag to everyone. but the more experienced active players like ran ignoring it is also another item to pin to the scummylist.

[Marquis]

Prod dodge am non sober

[Marquis]

Actually I'm reading but not taking much in otherthan
VOTE: dunnstral
Because practicality But Ran flipping around feels like much stronger scum knows I'll still be on the table for later. I don't think Ran will get agreement for lynching but I do independently think Dunn is scum for similar opportunism and fits into the same view point

[Marquis]

Also not lynching CES in the face of this
Closest read there is null town because it feels like his slot is treated the same way by scum as mine and I still see his persistence on me as irrational when scum would probably be trying to cast a wider net of focus

[Marquis]

Lq would you vote Ran today.
I think it's still slightly possible and is by far the most likely scum flip

[Marquis]

Yeah and what happens after I flip town? He probably gets lynched next from a combination of backlash and lot of other slots that have 1 or 2 people townreading them
CES isn't a stupid scum player he'd know if I get lynched he has nothing else of significance or to offer town. I think it's way more likely he's a tunneling townie rather than scum who's had to think about the overall gamestate
Also I wanna sleep so eveyrone stop talking for a bit OK thanks

[Marquis]

Also I don't wanna find it again and I don't want to come off as conf biased but Ran said something about Screenplay salvaging a slot as scum that just screamed projecting to me.
In case I get lynched overnight gun to my head scum would be Ran, Dunn, Dan? maybe.
My most confident town to not lynch anytime before a LYLO would be Shea, Gamma, nsg, CES (yes for real), and... ??? those
LQ in the middle. Cloud of I don't wanna deal right now. I could be wrong.

[Marquis]

Well at the rate this game seems to be going it feels like a guaranteed LYLO already. When we started at 12v3. In white flag.

So. Good night

[Marquis]

Hey CES.
Say we lynch me and against all your conviction I flip town.
What happens now?

[Marquis]

What happens is game probably defaults to a CES lynch (likely mislynch) or another lurker lynch (Dan lycan, who I am slightly more confident flips scum but is by no means the ideal option).

For like one second. One real day. Work with me and figure out what else is happening around you when you're not blinded by the size of your hate boner for me.

Same goes to Shea LQ and whoever else on my wagon who has at least 40% odds of flipping town.

[Marquis]

My #1 today is ran. I feel like his scumminess is getting more and more blatant as he goes for whatever easy mislynch is on the table but everyone is discounting him because he's the most active. Which is great in theory to get the game moving but when you have multiple players who are inactive and disengaged it just serves to push scum agenda forward. It's my fault I'm inactive, I'm shit for it yes but that doesn't suddenly mean that hyperactivity is a town tell.

I feel like there's more support for it but am staying on Dunn as #2. I'm feeling similar vibes here nowhere near as strong but still a lynch I want with more support.

I have a free day today so I'll be checking in intermittently. If we could just chill tf out and actually take a sec to consider everything is fked up rn. That would be great

Also if my townreads could unvote me it'd be even better but that's prob asking for a lot

[Marquis]

Actually
Hi dav
Tell me again why ur voting CES
And simultaneously would choose to vig me?

[Marquis]

Dunnstral, tell me what you think of Shea's vote on Marquis, and Quick's vote on Marquis. Tell me what you think of this: #2607

I don't know what to think of CES, and yes I will look at this game some more and explain some reads

If CES were scum I'd be looking back at those as moderately suspicious I'm sure if that's what you're getting at, I need to look at him separately though

Also this just feels... off
Like. structurally? or tonally not sure but I'm marking it for future reference

[Marquis]

I am at work. Right now, Marquis why did your read on Quick change, and what is the reasoning for it now? What is your read of Shea? How do you feel about the Shea and Quick votes on you?

CES, talk to me about Quick. Also please give me two town games of yours and two scum games. Will respond to you as well when I get home.

There are these easily posable questions you ask in literally every post and don't really seem to follow up on other than to help yourself go with the flow readwise. Like I don't recall it leading anywhere other than making yourself look engaged and potentially see what wagons you can push without resistance. Which worked for mine up until nsg put it in check.

For the record only because I don't think I've elaborated on this anyway Shea and postie gave off the same figuring shit out vibe. Like not just vapid questioning but the follow through looked real and the interest and involvement felt real. I'll admit it's deteriorated over time as I've seen less of him and the same thing happened for lick - Skrew says he doesn't buy the "too dumb to be scum" schtick and I usually don't either but after taking a step back I'm not really even... feeling anything there. Implosion or EP I forget who said LQ tends to be a bit obtuse as town too from other games and while that doesn't give me any confidence in a townread on him it means I do have to look at it in the context of what he's actually doing and not reactively - which I don't think I've afforded myself the time to do

[Marquis]

Well
Off the top of my head this day LQ has been all for a semi scumlynch semi policylynch on me. Which isn't very attractive.
But pushing CES now??

At face value looks like scum content with either mislynch...
But like... gutwise... just doesn't feel the same as the way Ran or Dunn is pushing for things.

Idk. My mind is kind of like all over the place trying to internally sort this rn so I'm probably not explaining it the best. But like. It gives off a different motivational vibe.

Also I really really think Ran is scum here and seeing at least LQ feeling similarly might have clouded things up last night.

I think right now at least mentally I need LQ to be town seeing the same thing I'm seeing there, more than I'm actively seeing anything either way wrt LQ's slot. I'm a big believer in townsync. But it feels really conflicting how my gut wants to pursue that with LQ.

[Marquis]

Shea
nsg

Gamma
CES

LQ

Dav
Lycan
Dan

Dunn


Ran

I think I'm somewhere like this now for shotgun reads. 3 in the middle are nullish - not sure if actual null or nullscum by virtue of the ones who are either more town or more do-not-lynch-before-lylo

The fact we only need to get 2 is comforting right now readwise so I don't have to be so exact with it - closer to the top is just a handful of people I don't think should be considered as lynch options at all. Lynching preferably at the very bottom or in that bottom pool is where I want to take this today while we still have the time.

I don't think the rest of town realizes we're probably already on the low ground, aka fighting off a loss. There are still numbers in our favor but based on where the votes lie I feel like it's too easy for scum to direct onto a mislynch of choice up until lylo.

[Marquis]

Tomorrow

[Marquis]

will prob be back tonight for real

[Marquis]

I promised myself I would never look at mafia on my lunch break but here I am
VOTE: ran
Please just lynch this already
Or someone other than me at the very least even begin to consider him being scum.
Dan and team doesn't count. Even though I hate liking it

[Marquis]

I've put this off long enough but I'm going to really consider replacing out. I don't expect this to end anytime as soon as I thought it would and you all know I keep tapping in and out here.

Asking my team about it, will get back in the morning with a fresh head and final decision.