Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Marquis]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

[northsidegal]

i mean, this is far and away the easiest game to catch up on, but that's neither here nor there.

i don't think there's a point in asking you specific questions if you haven't read the thread at all – they'd inevitably be leading questions, wouldn't they? can you just start reading the thread?

[Marquis]

llamarble aggressively null

this was more my wording but to clarify, it was more pre/early game: skrew said llama probably picked this game because he's known as a good classic scumhunter, which i thought meant was a town lean, but clarified he didn't know how to read him/meta and just knew him. it was more of a reputation based "oh it's obvious he'd pick this" wifom thing. so back and forth with reasons on both

personally i was relying on that for a short while because i'm really really aggressively bad at reading that whole set of older classic-ish players who i don't know well? if that makes sense? idk
it's probably more of an intimidation and paranoia thing more than anything else that makes me want to default scumread them because they'll always be able to pull one over me

[LicketyQuickety]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

Oooookkkkaaaaayyyyyy.....

So where does that leave us with trying to sort you exactly?

[LicketyQuickety]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

Oooookkkkaaaaayyyyyy.....

So where does that leave us with trying to sort you exactly?

This is either going to force you into the game or it's going to show that you don't care or that you are Scum.

First, ISO Lycan.

Then tell me what you think of these posts and try to give a read on the players involved:

Lycanfire:

His provided reads on not even half the players in the game goes after isolated incidence instead of looking at the whole picture regarding the reads he gave where he said most about them. It's important to note that these are the more active players on average so the fact he goes after isolated incidents instead of a broader picture of those slots shows he's either giving low effort for this competition or he is Scum.

His question to me I don't think is a legit way to sort me considering he's already given a SR on me, which makes me think he is pushing an agenda instead of actually sorting people. It's also unclear who he SRs and who he TRs because under Scum you have 6 players, which is far too many to be SRing, which makes me think he is intentionally trying to paint a lot of people as Scum so he can't get blamed for voting someone later in D1 whom he already game a SR on.

Not only that, but in 225 he just assumed Llama was doing a slayers gambit of some sort as opposed to just thinking Llama is firing from the hip (which can come from Town and Scum alike), which IIRC Llama neither confirms nor denies which makes his vote on ECS superflux.

Given he's completely wrong about my motivation for doing things, I think it's more than likely he has done this with other people as well. Misinterpreting someone's motives and just calling their motives Town or Scum, without really digging any deeper than behavioral analysis drops his game short and in my experience this comes from Scum more often than Town.

what were your motivations for that conversation with me? it felt like you were trying to see if you could poke around and find traction to start getting a wagon on me, but no one jumped on it so you abandoned it and moved on. you've thrown a lot of shade my way but have avoided attacking me directly. I think that's kind of what lycan was getting at, and I think its pretty clearly true.

so I'll ask you this: are you scum reading me, and if so: why arent you voting me?

You realized you've put your own spin on my motivation without considering things like how I approach the game in general right? Does no one read wiki's anymore? You know I go by Quick, go read that wiki to find out why I am pressing you.

I am not necessarily SRing you, no. I am trying to get a read on you and poking you is one way to do that. I consider you Null at this point in time. Last time I gave you a TR you ended up being Scum so I am not as quick to label you as Town this time around. I'll have to review what people said after I threw some accusations your way.

Lycan uses a lot of colorful wording, but there is a disconnect between what he is representing with enough solid backing that I think he is just creating stories for motivation instead of looking at all possibilities.

I consider what people say about their play, but I don't let people tell me why they're doing the things they do because people lie. You know damn well I know you're quick and I believe I've told you that I've read your wiki, but I also recall you have something of a poor memory, so I forgive you for not remembering that.

The problem with your actions is that the things you're doing also have significant scum motivations. Regardless of if you think you're doing them for other reasons, I'm not in your head, and I can't just trust you.

And I also am starting to be pretty sure you're scum because you're poking and drawing almost no reasonable conclusions. You start long discussions with me about nonsense about how reck is using different tools to find reads, and then disengage as soon as I try to explain. That's the biggest problem here. You're poking, but you don't seem to care about the responses to your pokes. At least not from the people you're poking. You seem to be singularly interested in the responses of other players, which makes me think you're more interested in finding where you can find an easy lynch, and not concerned about finding the correct lynch. This squares quite nicely with your vote on marquis also, which you have not fully explained after naked voting. It's nice to be on the highest vote getter who happens to not be posting much.

Actually, literally all the votes on marquis right now are atrocious.

You clearly have no idea how I play Scum if you think that I go after the easiest lynch. I go after the second easiest lynch and push my buddies a lot without getting them lynched.

It will be interesting to see if you, Lycan, or Marquis flips Scum. I mean, even if you are Town and Lycan is Scum, you have every reason to agree with Lycan because he has you as a top Town read.

I consider people could be Scum all the time, but I don't say they are Scum super easily because you can see Scum motive in pretty much every post ever as Town. It's about what is likely and I think it's more likely that Lycan and yourself aren't considering many possibilities into the motivation of players and that's a real problem with a player who is a low volume player like Lycan.

And I don't see you voting me, so I think your words are kinda empty with you calling me Scum, so I am going to fire that one right back at you where I when you asked why I wasn't voting you I said I wasn't necessarily SRing you, but here you are SRing me and yet no vote.

[Marquis]

sidenote i feel like it's weird that i'm not obviously town rn? like in the least egotistical way possible (if that's even possible but u know what i mean.) not because my play has been a shining beacon of towniness but because i'm usually left alone on d1. it might be because this is the first game i've purposely joined in a long time that i'm not in with someone i have a history of ez townbloc-ing with but it also kind of makes me feel like there's some kind of agenda because otherwise i'm not a typical textbook town player.

Marquis(4) ~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral

like looking at the votes on me gun to my head i'd bare minimum pick lickety as the scum agenda one but that's because i've been seeing mediumlong post after mediumlong post and i know he has the capability to play this way as scum which makes me wary, as well as being opportunistic at the same time while not

too

obvious about it. but i'm still concerned that's too meta oriented as opposed to his actual play here which i haven't had the chance to really read in real time.

idk i kind of expected it to be easier than this? in the selfish way. going for the game with lynch one two scum and done while floating. need more real time reading so i'll read while at work then?

i think this turned out into me admitting i don't currently have any value to bring to town other than that i'm a warm town body who when further heated up becomes a potentially delicious roasted tomato full of juicy squirty accuracy. again in the least egotistical way possible.

i also feel like i'm talking past people but that's my fault. this wasn't the most productive stream of consciousness moment bc my dumb ass decided to start it without even attempting to full read but i'll post it anyway.

god i really need to read

pls don't vote me more i'll def have more time friday bc i dont have a nightlife still

[LicketyQuickety]

sidenote i feel like it's weird that i'm not obviously town rn? like in the least egotistical way possible (if that's even possible but u know what i mean.) not because my play has been a shining beacon of towniness but because i'm usually left alone on d1. it might be because this is the first game i've purposely joined in a long time that i'm not in with someone i have a history of ez townbloc-ing with but it also kind of makes me feel like there's some kind of agenda because otherwise i'm not a typical textbook town player.

Marquis(4) ~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral

like looking at the votes on me gun to my head i'd bare minimum pick lickety as the scum agenda one but that's because i've been seeing mediumlong post after mediumlong post and i know he has the capability to play this way as scum which makes me wary, as well as being opportunistic at the same time while not

too

obvious about it. but i'm still concerned that's too meta oriented as opposed to his actual play here which i haven't had the chance to really read in real time.

idk i kind of expected it to be easier than this? in the selfish way. going for the game with lynch one two scum and done while floating. need more real time reading so i'll read while at work then?

i think this turned out into me admitting i don't currently have any value to bring to town other than that i'm a warm town body who when further heated up becomes a potentially delicious roasted tomato full of juicy squirty accuracy. again in the least egotistical way possible.

i also feel like i'm talking past people but that's my fault. this wasn't the most productive stream of consciousness moment bc my dumb ass decided to start it without even attempting to full read but i'll post it anyway.

god i really need to read

pls don't vote me more i'll def have more time friday bc i dont have a nightlife still

In other words I am Scum because I have the potential to be Scum. Brilliant, class A work there

[Marquis]

lol i've put off reading this game to the point where i still want to play but know if i say i don't want to read ppl are going to be like "replace out then" w me being too selfish to care

skrew is the only teammate who's been trying to follow along and has most ppl null, llamarble aggressively null, and gamma slightly scummy for ??? (which i agree with based on skimming and sparse content memories but again want to re-sort the whole thing). will ask him to follow up

some1 ask me qs / point me to things to look at so i can get a jumping off point. diving > bellyflopping

Oooookkkkaaaaayyyyyy.....

So where does that leave us with trying to sort you exactly?

i think i half responded to this.

the only thing i don't really like about you rn besides you voting me is that you're on that while making a bunch of content posts. if i had to throw a dart at the wall of "scum motivation" i'd say because it's easy to vote park on me rn while i've provided relatively less to work with in midgame, and at the same time as voting me throwing post after post out there to provide analysis walls while going for the low fruit. but i explicitly don't want to commit to a scumread because 1) i'm extremely wary rn of my biases towards meta based reads when i don't have a solid town core to work with and 2) i need to have a townread to work off of and idk how i feel about postie and nsg because it's been so long.

as self centered as it is if somebody could get really town while i'm here it'd really help!! ttm

[Marquis]

In other words I am Scum because I have the potential to be Scum. Brilliant, class A work there

at the risk of being opportunistic and... naive(??) the scumread grew because i made it clear how shallow my opinion was and yet you felt the need to jump on and repurpose my words for an agenda anyway

[Marquis]

hold up not voting. gonna read.

[LicketyQuickety]

In other words I am Scum because I have the potential to be Scum. Brilliant, class A work there

at the risk of being opportunistic and... naive(??) the scumread grew because i made it clear how shallow my opinion was and yet you felt the need to jump on and repurpose my words for an agenda anyway

I didn't give an agenda to what you were saying.. I am trying to get you off your ass and into the game.

And I think I am making the correct play going after you and I don't think just because it's an easy play to make that it is the wrong play to make.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.13

Marquis(4)

~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety, Dunnstral

Cogito Ergo Sum(3)

~ Lycanfire, Sauce, northsidegal

Tchill13(2)

~ Llamarble, Thestatusquo

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ EddieFenix, ActionDan

Postie(1)

~ Tchill13

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

EddieFenix(1)

~ Postie


Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

[Llamarble]

LQ is a very good scum candidate too. Those 3/15 odds aren't looking so bad anymore.
I liked Lycan's big post; puts him in the area of "nothing particularly difficult to fake yet but moving in a good direction" with NSG.

[Postie]

Marquis I'd like you to ISO Eddie and tell me what you think. See 388, 390, and 402 for why I think he's scum.

And since you scumread Gamma, see 331/332/335 for why I think he's town.

[Postie]

@LQ

- I've noticed your teammates don't seem to have had any input on this game. Is there a reason for that? What are their thoughts?

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ

- I've noticed your teammates don't seem to have had any input on this game. Is there a reason for that? What are their thoughts?

Mostly how this is working is that I am kinda doing my own thing with this game and the others are working on their games together. It's just the way it worked out. I have asked them a couple questions about this game, but for the most part, I am working alone here and my teammates are working together on the other ones. I am mostly there to take care of keeping things in context so they don't get carried away with going too far off course in thinking about being strategic in how to approach things. I am basically the guy who is taking a big picture, stand back approach and just trying to keep them on course.

[Postie]

That makes sense. I'd like to get some of their reads though, because I find it odd that they don't have anything to say. I guess I'm mainly talking about Mulch here, because he's a pretty hyper player. What are his thoughts?
Also from what I remember Creature doesn't usually have much difficulty throwing out a couple reads. Can I get something from them too?

[EddieFenix]

Postie:

Spoiler:

Eddie do you have like
reads

or anything that isn't theory or IIoA

I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .

Do you have any opinions on anyone else that could/should be added to the town core, LQ?

you! Why is LQ in your null area?! I'm still waiting for that answer.

I also notice you ask a lot of questions like this but never seem to reach any meaninguful conclusions from the answers you're given

I keep conclusions to myself a lot admittedly (bad habit of bottling). I also have reads, but I need to start shifting them and re-evaluating them and I plan to do that over the weekend. Right now, with all the "lurkers" running around, there's a LOT of null because they're not giving me much to chew over for "food for thought". Hopefully, with the weekend coming up, it gives them time to come in and post. I can attempt to mathematically and logically try to PoE who would be town/scum thru all of this mind you, but I'd rather have content instead to gather intent/information. Fair?

Talking more to the rest of the thread than Eddie now but

I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .

I'd like to hear the opposition to Llama, if you could be so kind, LQ .

Llama has so far been a vary chaotic player. As such, I think those sorts of players are the type you can't get a solid read on right away. That's why I am hesitant to put them in a Town core. It's not even that I SR Ll, it's that I don't feel comfortable giving a solid read on that slot yet, if that makes sense.

Like look at this exchange
You'd think that you'd ask the question Eddie did to try and discern something about Llama or LQ's alignments and a natural follow-up to this exchange would be to consider those things

But instead we get

Completely and utterly logical imo.

And yeah you can say well maybe he just wasn't really sure what to think yet and was mulling things over but can you point me to anything resembling a reads progression from him

anywhere

in the thread

Foolish Postie. Fenix wants to catch scum and have them dead to rights with the perfect case every time because a Fenix is perfectly perfect. (#tryingtobefunny. See GE spoiler for better thoughts)

Gamma Emerald:

Spoiler:

The mastina mention feels like Appeal to Authority tbh, making it seem that he has more sway by having a powerful teammate
I'd ask why Marq is null but enough people felt that way that I don't really care because it's not an interesting opinion.
side note: are you saying Miles is a bad guy buckaroo?

For this one, it was a response to the question in meme form because I figured it would definitely get a laugh from Mastina, and I know it got one from Bulb when he read it. Not appealing to authority, mainly meme'n just to meme.

Side Note Answer: Also, no, Miles is one of my favorite characters from the series (bad guy turned good guy and case 5 from game 1 was damn amazing!). I only switched to Rexxar because I'm actively hunting for scum this game. So, hunter and pun rolled into one. I'm a dork, sue me

Addressing this here: Why didn't you feel this way about Dunnstral's vote earlier?

The First Postie vote (303) or the First Marquis vote (29)? The first Marquis vote, because it was so early on, I honestly glazed over the person who voted. Which is bad form on my part, cause I immediately noticed Lycan's vote and latched onto needing a reasoning for it once I was deeper in.

I get why he let someone else comment first here: see if anyone else is thinking like they do, and whoever does gets townpoints for mirroring.

Nope! No town points were awarded for that. NSG was already in my "active" town pool before that. If anything, it lets me know who is at least paying attention to the game and is actively going, "heyyyyy wait a minute, somethin fishy here."

What do you mean at the beginning of the game?

As soon as our threads opened at midnight for the games, Mastina was going ham and dropping quotes in our team thread then went to bed.

How would you like it brought to discussion? This question feels very lacking in definition

You have someone making a statement that Tchill seems town. Then an immediate "shade" throw. And then the immediate counter to the shade throw. So, if you look at it from an "incredibly co-ordinated dumbass blind townie idea/theory" mentality: 1 person trying to confirm the person as town, 1 person trying to "throw shade" at that person for their attempt at trying to confirm said person as town with "no knowledge of said player", then 1 person trying to defuse the situation entirely not just 3 posts later, and then my ass coming in and going, YEAH. Bring this to discussion cause I'm aware of Tchill enjoying playing scum, so why won't someone discuss this ideal further where his meta is concerned? Yet... It looks as if I pissed into the wind at this point cause no one touched the topic of TChill's meta after I said something about it. So, for me right now, this could come from a co-ordinated scum team of Tchill, LQ, and Marble (which wouldn't be out of the question as of this post now that I think about it. Update: I'm fully caught up now and it's something that I am going to rattle around in my head now because the dots

kinda

connect now that I sat here and talked it out).

What do you think will come of a larger wagon on me? I used to be incitable with large wagons but I feel like that tendency has died in me

Pressure to see if you crumble and it also potentially brings the scum out of the woodwork in an attempt to hammer if they're trying to lurk out and pounce when opportunity is within grasp.

As for TChill being scummy, does that mean you think Postie is town based on TChill having voteparked her?

Postie is growing on me with their use of the book terms that I have to refresh myself on every time there's a term that comes up that makes me go "what was that again?!" (IIoA being a perfect example) As well as taking the task to try and figure out the game and even taking ME to task for that matter. However, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ReF-nlrQAY I feel the need to point Postie in that direction when it comes to dealing with me. I'm an emotional wild card. I can one second be town reading you, then switch because something pinged me and I go, nahhhhh gonna gun for that (see above for example).

I don't get the exact message of this, but my guess is he's upset about TSQ rushing things. What's the issue with that?

I complimented them for their approach because of them being aggressive, but also want to remind them that we could very well be here awhile before the first lynch comes in/down.

@EddieFenix In an attempt to meet you halfway I will answer the questions directed back at me, but note that their origin does not seem to be directly linked to my question. In fact it's reminiscent of a particle accelerator crashing two particles into each other at light speed to see what constituent particles manifest and can be measured before entropy masks them off from our reality. Anyway.

Cause going thru at least a PoE and grouping town together

wut?

Random lynch bad, PoE and grouping town together good

What sort of moon logic are you on with my wording? Is building a town block bad to you? I'd love to hit the mark and just keep on chugging along to lead to victory, because yo, I want those Town MVP points if a tiebreaker is a make or break for being the top team.

Almost50 mentioned moonlogic when we discussed replacements. I refrained from telling him I don't understand what he meant, because of an assessment that it's a quality better had when scum.
Therefore, what is moonlogic, and are you insinuating that I'm scum for employing it?

Moonlogic is asking me exactly what you're asking me right now. Why would I even insinuate you as scum for using moonlogic? Like, that's a highly terrible logical jump. "He's using moonlogic, he must be scum for using it! I'm brilliant for thinking that!!". Also, if you're going to attempt to throw shade at me for not "having common sense," you better at least have it to begin with before trying to throw it down my throat.

Fully caught up at the moment and I've got a lot more to do over the weekend reads wise. MARBLE, you've had TIME to answer and HAVEN'T still. Distancing from your partner much?



Postie, take a step back and read the GE post to get a good peek into what's going on in my brain right now.

[Postie]

No see the thing about legitimately scumhunting while keeping your conclusion to yourself, Eddie, is that I should still be able to see that you are in fact scumhunting

None of your pushes, your questions,

anything

you've posted has any sense of direction.

Sometimes when a player has made a bunch of posts that amount to absolutely nothing, the answer isn't that they have a ~super secret~ godly thought process behind it all that your feeble mind can't comprehend, it's just that they're scum.

[Llamarble]

a co-ordinated scum team of Tchill, LQ, and Marble (which wouldn't be out of the question as of this post now that I think about it.

So uh
My buddies are my top 2 scumpicks
One of whom I am voting
Excellent

Though I actually got happy when I (a few hours ago) ran into that LQ post about Tchill meta, it was very.much the flavor of.buddies. So you can have partial credit for noticing that at least.

[LicketyQuickety]

a co-ordinated scum team of Tchill, LQ, and Marble (which wouldn't be out of the question as of this post now that I think about it.

So uh
My buddies are my top 2 scumpicks
One of whom I am voting
Excellent

Though I actually got happy when I (a few hours ago) ran into that LQ post about Tchill meta, it was very.much the flavor of.buddies. So you can have partial credit for noticing that at least.

I see we are doing preflip here. What is the motivation for doing so?

[LicketyQuickety]

viewtopic.php?p=9664703#p9664703
viewtopic.php?p=9664890#p9664890
viewtopic.php?p=9671718#p9671718
viewtopic.php?p=9698355#p9698355
viewtopic.php?p=9710790#p9710790

Anyone want to take a wager for what the pattern here is? I'll give you a hint: Look at who was Scum this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

viewtopic.php?p=9737012#p9737012
viewtopic.php?p=9737138#p9737138
viewtopic.php?p=9759865#p9759865
viewtopic.php?p=9760052#p9760052

OK, so although I only have a place that I talk about why pre-flip is a bad idea as Scum on this site, I fully believe in every word I said in this game regarding Pre-Flip. In fact, I knew what I was saying was so sound that I decided to make talking about not doing pre-flip a cornerstone of my game in this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

viewtopic.php?p=9664703#p9664703
viewtopic.php?p=9664890#p9664890
viewtopic.php?p=9671718#p9671718
viewtopic.php?p=9698355#p9698355
viewtopic.php?p=9710790#p9710790

Anyone want to take a wager for what the pattern here is? I'll give you a hint: Look at who was Scum this game.

BTW, how I got these results was by ISOing myself and searching for "pre-"

[LicketyQuickety]

I am going back here for the time being:

VOTE: Chill