Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[CheekyTeeky]

Aneninen has no good reason despite all the fuss to vote for reck here, it feels awkward and over elaborate for that stage of the game.

...how?

I feel like in RVS if someone is pushing someone else for something provably NAI it's completely normal to scumread that

the wording i guess is a bit much but unless raybells is lying about anen that seems normal for him

In comparison to his ISO dig on me, it sticks out as over reaching and overthought.

[Katyusha]

im not following cheeky

i guess more the overreaching part, but even then i would think the overthought is in sync with the rest of his posting style?

[mastina]

I still think Mastina is full of shit.

What a coincidence, I still think you're scum dismissing my content as shit without actually addressing any of it.

Mastina has played with me before and to have them put me as a scum lean, I don’t like it.

I have indeed, and it is specifically because of my experience with you that I am doing so.

As town, I expect you to be doing more.

I expect your content to still be crap because frankly I don't think much of you as a player, but while I expect you to not do well, I also expect you to still show yourself as town in the shitty content, and that's been absent. Instead of you being town on your own merits, you are relying on...

I’ve gotten a couple of town nods. That tells me I have town told somewhere.

...This.

Basically, you as town do more. The stuff you do is not great. But the stuff you do is actually THERE.

You're basically cruising, is what I am saying. Not actually producing content. Slipping by. Into the cracks. Lurking. You're not a lurker as town. You ARE lurking this game, unambiguously.

You as town are active.
You as town give content, even if it's not content I agree with.
Yet here you just...

...Aren't.

[CheekyTeeky]

Ok so to break it down, when Ane was analysing my iso he pointed out things like "lack of scumhunting" " hedging votes" "no reasoms for votes" etc but when he initially pointed out reck he is like "x + y != z therefore reck must be scum" - a reach right.

A part of me feels like he started off over explaining a scum read in RVS when there was a lot of attention in the thread but maybe he didn't expect people to actually read the posts he was referencing in the ISO dig because the thought process for whether a post was AI to him is so basic it's laughable. I'm frustrated that I'm not articulating myself well. Anyway this is a side note my focus is on Reck atm.

[Katyusha]

my issue might be that i didnt read that part in context yet because im still mulling over anen in iso and debating if i should just sleep but

i dont really see 137 as x + y != z-esque reasoning, when i read it it's "my teammates and i agree this was a bad push from reck because it's null for rc and firebringer to swap when it can be easily confirmed they'd do it pre-game". which is a pretty simple line of reasoning, it's not multifaceted and ties into the same vein as "lack of scumhunting", "hedging votes", "no reasons for votes". Just longer. Is that the issue though?

To me it's hard to say if that's actually an issue. Like if you're going through an ISO to explain a PbP read, the individual points

should

be shorter than if you're going to make a single serious vote early in the game, since you're leading to the conclusion in the PbP read and you're at the conclusion already with the RVS read. It's comparing apples to oranges as far as I can tell. If Anen is scum this isn't why to me.

on reck, as a neutral third party can you look at his last vote on me and tell me if you agree that's scum? like with our discussion on his nullread on me i really got the impression he had no intention of moving it and he never bothered interacting with me until I poked him on that. why would he be confident enough to place that vote and act as if there isn't a very obvious town narrative to all of the things he's calling scummy? it feels like hes just looking at me in an exclusively scum lens and i dont really see the reasoning for that from town

the question is if he actually

is

doing that and if that makes him scum

[mastina]

Mastina's got such an odd writing style.

That would be thanks to my autism. I don't think like normal people do, and it comes across in what I say, how I say it. I suppose potentially also contributing is that I can sometimes switch identities midway through an activity (as in, one me starts a post, a different me finishes the post), so often I find myself in the position where I have a division in my thoughts, and I struggle to find unification in them because they were essentially written by two different people and my job before I hit submit is to make them sound like they were from one person the entire time.

I also am easily distracted, often multitasking and frequently just not keeping the same train of thought. Even if I devote myself entirely to a single task, my mind, my thought process, randomly jumps between different sections in that task. Think of it a little bit like writing a novel. When I am writing a novel, there's one spot I should officially be writing, but I both jump to earlier sections of the book and later sections of the book. The sections later in the book I am mostly imagining, the sections earlier in the book I'm mostly going off of memory, but I still jump between them in spite of me attempting to focus on the present.

Also to some extent the coherency of my writing depends on how much I have my shit together. When I am a hot mess, then so too is my writing. Not to mention, how awake I am. Who needs distractions when your mind is exhausted enough wherein you are basically experiencing the same biological reaction as someone who is drunk? (I legit think that alcohol is essentially mimicking the natural biological process of being tired--so while we think of things in terms of drunkposting, drunkposting is actually tiredposting with alcohol, rather than tiredposting behing drunkposting while sober and sleepy, which is what I tend to say because drunkposting is a common thing whereas tiredposting isn't.)

I realize I do in fact say a lot.

A LOT a lot.

I generally advise people to typically only read things addressed to them, unless they don't townread me.
Basically, if people townread me, they can skim my posts, no need to read it all. (And by the way, I try to make it such that the further down a post you go, the more important/relevant the content. The top of the post is thus most often filler/fluff compared to the bottom. Read all of my posts with that in mind and suddenly they make ten times more sense.)

If they don't townread me, and/or they want my input on specific things, then oh well, tough luck, you gotta bear through some extra stuff.

Srceenplay I have never lost to scum mastina when they were on Ranger or otherwise. She does not justify the paranoia you seem to have.

I don't know why people keep saying this. I don't know how to get the message across, but to reiterate. I am not Ranger. She is not one of my alts. I have one notable technically-undisclosed but not really hard to figure out alt per Mastin account. Mastin had a frequent alt in the form of an EpicMafia alt imported, mastin2 had a very prominent alt in the form of a product, and mastina also has an alt in the form of a product (in a manner of speaking).

Ranger is not among them.

When people ask me if I am one of my alts in public, I might not answer, but privately I all too happily admit, "Yeah that's me". I don't really put effort into hiding my alts even if I don't tend to disclose them (though I made an exception for the lulz when it came to Usami because it was funny for me to confirm it given her first game).

But every time people ask me this or state this as if it is a fact my answer remains the same because apparently people don't get the message. Ranger isn't me; I'm not Ranger. She's not my alt. The comparison was okay for a while, but it's honestly just annoying now. Ranger and I are not one and the same. So judging me by any metric you judge Ranger by is about as accurate as judging me by any metric you'd judge Ginngie by. Similar enough playstyles where some comparisons can be made, sure enough, but largely inaccurate because she's not me.

if you want to open the meta door that's another door that makes her fucking scum

Oh I welcome people to dive my games. All mastina games are listed on my wiki (all the completed ones anyway, I still need to update the wiki with uncompleted games, e.g. Team Mafia needs a section separate from all the rest), so it's rather easy to read them. (I also need to add Usami though because she is a public alt and thus should be listed.)

I know my own meta better than anyone else ever could because I am THE most self-conscientious player on the site. I am self-aware to a level no other player can ever manage. I know my own game. And this isn't my scumgame. And anyone who reads my scumgames will know as much just by looking, too.

I just feel if other people can town read me I don’t see why she doesn’t. I sounds like bs.

Exercise time: what was my stated read on you when I was scum?
...What's that you say? As scum I was townreading you?

...Okay then!

...What was my stated read on you when I was town?

...Not exactly a townread?

Well whadda ya know.

You do in fact sound like bullshit.

Theres also that hilarious comment she made about how my reads are faked so I won't have to reevaluate them when she flips town
meanwhile she also makes the comment that my top townreads were all voting her at one point.

Yes, and?
The two don't contradict one another. They augment one another.

Screenplay you better not waver my boyo ive been counting and 8 is gonna be tough

This looks like it actually belongs in the scum PT.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also me and Postie have been doing something pretty extensive that really needs to go out today before a lynch: please chill out for now.

[mastina]

You have to judge her by her content.

I wouldn't say I come across as fake, so much as it is that you can't trust many normal methods for reliably reading someone who is essentially a weird hybrid of chaos personified and yet at times so strictly orderly that is is nigh-paradoxical. This is in fact the method used to read me though! Judge me by my play, by what I provide. As scum I will be pushing a scum agenda, in my own way; as town, I lack the scum agenda and even if my play sucks, it sucks in a way which is undeniably TOWN suck.

Thor and Ginngie are on that team
Mastina is not a priority scum pick ever.

Not particularly.

I dubbed my own team "the scumfucks" team back in the pregame.

We are.

Quite literally.

A team built to play scumgames, not towngames.

Literally every single one of us.

Is better at playing scum than town. (Possible exception, Ginngie.)

The name of our team references Eddie, Bulba, and Ginngie being power-scumfucks. We couldn't pick Pine because he's not around so we settled on me and Thor for 4th/5th members, and the trend continues with me and Thor. I am a much stronger scum player than town player; Thor is a much stronger scum player than town player; EddieFenix and Bulbazak are much stronger scum players than town players.

In short.

Basically our entire team?

Literally any of us could take scum.

Of course it doesn't mean much for me to say this since I'd be literally required to by team mafia rules, but scum picks were irrelevant to us. We picked things not by alignment, but by game, because we had no need to strategize scum versus town; instead, we all chose the games we deemed our talents best suited for. (That's about as much as I think I'm allowed to disclose. My word that we're all town doesn't really mean anything.)

Ginngie who i can quote posting how anxious being scum makes her?

Being scum

against me

.

She holds no fear of drawing scum.

Or Mastina who revels in being scum

And this is an outright lie.

I have gone on record.

MULTIPLE TIMES.

It's everywhere.

My GTKAS thread.
Across MD threads.
In various Normal games I was a reviewer of.
In various games as both town and as scum.
It's on my fucking wiki even, right there for all to see.

I hate drawing scum.

I loathe it with a passion.

I just hold no interest in proving my talents as scum.

I mean.

On some occasions--about once or twice a year--I feel the need to give people a refresher on why scumastina is in fact as good as I brag she is. During those times, I revel in drawing scum since I get to show people why I am not to be taken lightly when I say I am one of, if not THE, best scum players on the site.

But outside of that.

Outside of those occasions.

I absolutely abhor scum.
It's just.
Not really a challenge.
Not really fun in of itself.

I can MAKE fun. By being a ridiculously hammy, cheeky scumfuck of a cartoon villain.

But I won't naturally

have

fun.

It's just business as usual.
Work.
Strictly formula.

Whereas town?

I love the thrill of the hunt. I love the chance to (im)prove my skills. I like to try to better myself. I know I fucking suck as town, but because I know I fucking suck as town, each and every time I draw it, I revel in the chance to get better, to have that gradual growth in me as a player. Which is something simply not possible from my scumgame. Scumastina remains much the same player she always has been, largely stagnated.

And while a town-mastina is unfortunately largely circular in her play, she at least TRIES to evolve.

Mastina lost her last scum game too.

No, I won XP Mafia. But you've got things backwards. Me losing a scumgame? Makes me want to be scum MORE to prove that I am in fact better than my loss would otherwise indicate. Me WINNING a scumgame? Makes me want to stay the fuck away from drawing scum again.

XP Mafia was a recent enough win that I've no desire to prove my skills again. I've no need to show off, to demonstrate that yes scumastina is as good as I brag she is. I just don't really feel like you can really top getting a mylo mislynch in spite of having what amounts to a fucking cop guilty on you (Loyal Tracker, but close enough) and having not 1v1ed your guilty and instead having it be a random townie you lynched.

4. every person on my team thinks you're a douchebag, RC

Not a scumtell, if anything the opposite.

done talking to a jackass like you, if anybody else wants to chat, im here

It's rather easy to call someone criticizing your actions an asshole and use it as an excuse to not address their valid points.

Context is okay to explain motivations, it just can't be the only thing driving an emptyread.

Oh? Do tell where you define the difference between the two then.

[Katyusha]

The name of our team references Eddie being power-scumfucks.

????????????/ source??

[mastina]

(Another reason I have a strong distaste for drawing scum in too close proximity to one another: beyond the fact that I lack the incentive to prove myself, there's also the difficulty in figuring out an approach wherein I would actually be able to do so successfully assuming enough of a playerlist overlap--and because I mostly play games by invitation, I mostly play with the same players. Because I mostly play with the same players, those players are going to be more intimately familiar with me on a game to game basis. So when I have a recent scumgame where I steamroll the town, the town of the next scumgame needs time between games to have "forgotten" scumastina, because if they don't, if it's too fresh in their memories, they'll be too wise to my shenanigans. Well, that and they'll scumread even stuff I do as town so they won't have had the time to realize "Oh that thing wasn't because she was scum, it was because she's mastina" which they do when I've got extra towngames between the scumgames. I CAN do scum after drawing scum...but it is much, much, much harder for me to do so. This is actually one of the reasons I attribute to me losing Organization XIII. It was too similar a game to King's Landing, in that I was scum on an anonymous alt in both games. So I had trouble figuring out how to differentiate my play between the games.)

[CheekyTeeky]

TOWN CANDIDATES
Hinduragi (though I fully admit this could be my awful blind spot coming into play still not touching it d1; but out of every player here he probably has the most experience with me to know me though it has been years)

So the blindspot thing was brought up by reck early on, it wasn't a spur of the moment thing egged on by other people. What I find most interesting is that he acknowledges Hinduragi can read him best whilst providing a sufficient out to hedge the read in case Hindu starts scum reading him. As I recall from Reck's ISO he was the one that started the communication with Hindu using 3 love signs so I'm not sure what that means except that Reck was the one who initiated the bromance. A point I'd like clarification on is what exactly is this blind spot? Were there any signs that Hindu was manipulating this blind spot, assuming he was aware of it?

[CheekyTeeky]

chesskid (i have played one game with chesskid reborn and he was town and it was similar to this and he's agreeing with me so check check check)

Whilst Chess might be town, this makes me feel like if one of the two were scum then it would be Reck pocketing Chess, rather than the other way around. I'll look into this further in Chess's iso, god help me.

I'd usually be suspicious if players were just agreeing with me with little input of their own. Hm.

[Katyusha]

it doesn't mean anything besides them being friends, obviously

the blindspot is hinduragi defending reck during the rc/reck interactions, reck tends to townread people who townread him early on

i dont really think there was a sign of him

abusing

it per se, it still really seems to me that if the interaction was scum!hindu/town!reck then the goal wasnt to pocket reck. it was just a normal interaction and what scum!hindu felt he'd do as town

both of their reads feel hedgey on each other though which is why it bothers me, especially considering how unlikely svs it is

[CheekyTeeky]

Cheeky (votes me for not knowing RC's meta; also agrees with chess that "Anen is scum if RC isn't" and if CT really read RC as town enough to vote me for 'misreading' him, then he should've been more ready to jump on Anen)

Yeah I think I've said already that I wasn't clear that I only agreed with the RC scumread early game, not the association between Ane and RC. I still don't get how this made me a scumread inspite of the miscommunication. I think this is a little old to be addressing but it's a good reference point for read progression.

[CheekyTeeky]

both of their reads feel hedgey on each other though which is why it bothers me, especially considering how unlikely svs it is

Cool I'll check Hindu next.

[CheekyTeeky]

Katyusha (idk this is why i don't like binary sorting because katyu is more just MOR and null right now and i dont feel strongly either way but gun to my head the stuff with mastina i could totally see being scum theater? katyu requires too many associative reads to be a d1 lynch IMO)

Kat do you know what he's referring to here?

[mastina]

dont worry there will be 400 pages of me posting CHESSKID after mastina flips scum you waste of space

I imagine there will be 400 pages of you posting after I flip town with you trying to justify it. I mean there's certainly been 1/4th of that already which by the looks of things is mostly your doing, so.

reck lets do the math how do we get 8 on mastina.

Srceenplay did I twist what you were saying when I addresses the fact that you admitted you might be overestimating her? Asking for a friend.

No. I didnt see that.
UNVOTE:

SCREENPLAY

These are more examples of interactions which frankly feel like they are in-thread things which could easily be posted in the scum PT.

reck lets do the math how do we get 8 on mastina.

me/you/hindu/primate is 4
i dont know anybody else
yoshi might be open to it
creature seems reasonable this game
i dont see anen or RC ever joining it

Not really a scum PT interaction (I guess it could be), but it's still rather definitively again a transparently scum-scum in-thread interaction.

[Katyusha]

Katyusha (idk this is why i don't like binary sorting because katyu is more just MOR and null right now and i dont feel strongly either way but gun to my head the stuff with mastina i could totally see being scum theater? katyu requires too many associative reads to be a d1 lynch IMO)

Kat do you know what he's referring to here?

no, that's why i prodded him and all i got was garbage in response

[Katyusha]

also on my anen reread i decided that at 2 am i dont have the willpower to bother with that much thought process so i'll go back to vegetating and playing tetris while occasionally refreshing the page lmao

sorry you're getting a shitty katyusha, i cant play in towns like this and i dont really feel i have much a rock anymore to bounce off of

[mastina]

dont worry there will be 400 pages of me posting CHESSKID after mastina flips scum you waste of space

I imagine there will be 400 pages of you posting after I flip town with you trying to justify it. I mean there's certainly been 1/4th of that already which by the looks of things is mostly your doing, so.

(I wanted to do the activity overview and sort by post number but I don't know the trick behind pulling that off, but if you do, then you'd notice that chesskid has over 100 posts more than the closest person to him, RadiantCowbells. Meaning, by

far

he has been the loudest most dominant player in the game and it's right there for you to see if you know that method and use it. Oh and the gap between chesskid and the third-highest?

468 posts

. The gap between chesskid and the vast majority of players in the game is over 400 posts, a full two extra pages of iso, which comes out to be 18.5 game pages of extra content he himself has over the third contender.)

[mastina]

Mastina do you want to lynch chesskid and have the hider go on reck slot?

This would be acceptable!
Not ideal (ideal is you with hider to dodge the nightkill and get conftown), but it's better than most things since it gets a chesskid lynch and would help demonstrate Reck's scum, so I can accept it if need be.

This exchange makes chesskid toxic.

Which does not make him town.

[mastina]

chesskid even though i think we're right about mastina your arrogant bullshit is really tiring and making even ME want to vote you just to shut you up
so i dont know how you expect to win over other people to the wagon while being a twat

This is the first thing I've seen which would make me so much as maybe doubt the Reck-chess scumteam tho.

Like chesskid I don't know why you're here but I'm here to have fun. And to win, but I'd rather lose an enjoyable game than win a miserable one and those two goals are not at odds anyway. You're not making this fun. And neither is RC but right now you're worse.

The thing is he is playing to his wincon to make the game miserable.

Misery breeds apathy.

Apathy breeds town losses.

So by making people miserable, chesskid is playing to his scum wincon.

even ME

i dont think this even applies that much here?
Like you've voted me a lot :meta: and im well aware you aren't my biggest fan.
but you know my reads are good so w/e

Fuck it.

VOTE: chesskid.

Reck still is probably scum.

But IF one of the two in Reck/chesskid is town.
It'd be Reck, not chesskid, so.

[CheekyTeeky]

& tbh i think my team's reads on you are stronger than mine and they basically dont like your interactions with kat so far so that's mostly where it's coming from

This is the first thing to ping me as townish from Reck - and funnily it comes from his team.

[CheekyTeeky]

Second off, BigYoshiFan: why the chesskid vote after saying you weren't done reading?

Third off, Hinduragi: I'm voting mastina because I think the emptyvote on me was dumb and mastina hasn't shown back up to clarify it and the amount of hard buddying she's getting RIGHT NOW without even showing up to defend herself is ludicrous. The original emptyvote on me was quoting my blank RVS vote on creature and calling me scum for it. Other people rushed in to say, "Oh no, that's just mastina's meta!" I don't give a fuck about meta, I give a fuck about reasons and play in this game. Meta is an easy thing to hide behind so the argument carries no weight for me.

Cheeky waiting for RC to go all cute tryhard ragemode in order to stuff a vote on chesskid really sits wrong with me, especially asking for the hider afterwards. I won't give Cheeky the hider for anything.

This is all townish pings too, sigh. Particularly the concern about my gear change. I still don't think people understand my play lol, it should be SR there if you aren't familiar with it. Pretty sure it locked me in as a TR with RC though.

[CheekyTeeky]

Yep kept reading. Reck is firmly town as I thought earlier. Next is Hindu.