♥ ♠ Open 711: Stack The Deck - Game Over ♣ ♦

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Screenplay

I wanted first comment

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: mutantdevle

for not knowing how to spell Srceenplay's name

HOLY SHIT I ONLY JUST NOTICED.


And anyway, you should be voting Srceenplay for not being able to spell his own name correctly. (I'm not a hypocrite! What are you talking about?).

[mutantdevle]

Sleep + college all day = 130+ posts to catch up on.

VOTE: not mafia

We can not let him get to endgame

Ik this is RVS but I would legitimately be on board to policy lynch N_M day 1.

I've never been scum

I thought every game was your scum game?

I don't want to rock the boat this game, so I'm not going to vote.

This post is ironic considering what came after.

VOTE: not mafia

We can not let him get to endgame

Mind elaborating on this?

I'm assuming she is referring to how N_M lost town the game by voting me in a 2v1 MYLO in a game we just finished at the VERY START of the day. No discussion, just a vote; followed by Almost50 hammering as the SK. It was both funny and quite frustrating. But in general, N_M is just a liability. He likes to lol hammer, barely contributes anything meaningful and is just generally trolly. He is either scum, going to be mislynched or is going to fuck us up endgame. Personally, N_M is one of those players that I am always going to be willing to wagon unless they either claim a PR or a confirmed town.

I am voting them. That’s the point.
Why is it hard for you to consider a L-1 a hammer Vote?

I'm not a fan of this playstyle but I can accept and deal with it. I would be willing to adjust my vote with consideration that each of those wagons requires 1 less vote to be lynched if you are not already on them. I will not, however, hold others to the same standard. I will not treat any L-1 voter as though they have just hammered and will likely consider you accountable for that (though this may depend on the situation).

I want to see more content from A50.

No you don't! I'm a bad guy.

I listen to Bob Geldof, watch Brian Gleeson & laugh at the jokes of Brad Garrett. (That's a yuckie combination indeed, Paddy!)

I'll do a quick catch up, but I don't think anyone said anything remarkably AI so far (up to this post I'm responding to)

This feels like a traitor claim.

Why?

Bolded

I'm in agreement with this. I can definitely see this being A50 failing to subtly hint his role. I'm going to view A50 in a biasedly negative way for the duration of this game and I expect him to rise no higher than a scum lean for me.

Also, if I was Mafia (main team) my picks would've been BP+RC+RECRUIT TRAITOR. Why would I want a 3rd member WHO KNOW WHOM THE OTHER TWO ARE out there with no coordination?

This statement means nothing since you are accused of being the traitor and not part of the main team. Furthermore, again telling us what you would have chosen also means nothing. We don't know the setup. For all we know, what you would have chosen could very well be the setup. The only time this would hold any ground would be if we had already caught scum. And since this entire post seems to consist of pure thirst for town cred, I think we just have.

Oh boy I haven't been called vi in years.

Lucky, I get called VI almost every game. I'm starting to think it might be true

VOTE: mutantdevle
His sole contribution being to vote on "screenplay" in RVS, causing my RVS vote on him... and he hasn't appeared since, so this vote is for his lurking.

Yeah, sorry about that. My explanation of that is at the top of the thread. I can assure you, I am no lurker. My meta can be sure to prove that.

The post you referred to as being a Traitor claim was actually a BodyGuard strong crumb. Bad Guy, Bob Geldof, Brian Gleeson, Brad Garrett. Brad Garrett isn't even Irish to the best of my knowledge.

I almost believe this until:

VOTE: Almost50 - that BG-claim was always there as a backup-strat.
He is the traitor and tried to crumb it - trusting my gut here.

I feel like this is probably much more likely.

plus I wasn't under any real pressure to crumb and claim like that.

This sentence is scummy IMO. No one was saying you were under pressure to crumb. Also, if there was no reason for you to crumb or claim, why did you? You have literally no reason to crumb BG at all. It's not a role that needs to crumb. Why did you crumb? The only reason someone would make this kind of crumb would be for town cred. Only scum are that thirsty for town cred.



I thought that Almost was just going to sit in my scum lean pile all game due to the potential traitor crumb. However, the scummy BG crumb is enough to make me vote for him since he had NO REASON to crumb BG. Crumbs that involve hiding the letters or words in the post are designed not to be seen until pointed out by the crumber. This is only done in anticipation of having to defend yourself and gain town cred. Not only did Almost NOT need to rectify himself with town cred at the time of this post but BG is also a role that is best not known to anyone and doesn't need to be crumbed nor claimed.

VOTE: Almost50



Sorry about the wall. These would have been individual posts but obviously I was not around to make them. Please don't have a fit over it Elmo <3

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: mutant

This is even more scummy than Una's since mutant did play me twice already (finished games).

1. This vote is OMGUS.
2. You haven't really mentioned a reason why Una's post was scummy other than that they are bad. So the fact that my post, in which I outline logical reasons as to why your claim is scummy, can be scummier makes literally no sense.
3. We have only played 1 game together, in which you were scum. (Unless I'm being completely stupid here).
4. I fail to see how the number of games we have played together would relate to how scummy my post looks anyway.
5. Instead of dodging my questions and ignoring my thoughts on you, how about you answer those questions and justify why you would crumb BG?

Bodyguards do not need to crumb; it is not an investigative role. Claiming bodyguard has no benefits to the town. The type of crumb you did is almost impossible to notice unless pointed out. This means the only purpose of it is to receive town cred at any time of your choosing. This is only done when you anticipate being scum read. You had no reason to think that if that post wasn't intended to be a traitor wink to your scum buddies.

[mutantdevle]

You don’t vote claimed BG day 1 no matter how much you think you scum read them.
You get a town lean for your bad Vote. Scum would never try that.

We'll lynch him tomorrow then.

And tbh, I think scum probably would try it if it looked likely to happen.

[mutantdevle]

@mutant: Crumbs (by definition) are NOT supposed to be easily noticed. That would be stupid. SOFT-CLAIMING though is supposed to be easy to notice, and I think that's what's confusing you, perhaps?


@mutant/Montosh: Why isn't it a valid move to crumb ANYTHING (even if I had rolled a VT)? A crumb is a crumb. It Is supposed to be a reference for later, but I don't get why you think only an investigative role should ever crumb! Crumbs are done to avoid Counterclaims towards the end of the game (if I had the chance to live that long).

Nothing is confusing me here. You claimed too early and your crumb was scummy. Had there been no crumb and you role claimed with a wagon on you then I would have believed you. But in its current state, your claim just screams desperate scum.

The only 2 reasons I would accept a crumb as legit (from town) are either to reveal additional information to the town if you are night killed or as proof of a gambit. This crumb was neither. You claim it was so that you could refute any counterclaim in the late game but I just don't buy that. It connects more dots in my mind that this would be a backup plan for if your traitor soft claim was pointed out by townies. There is something that would make me irrefutably believe you are the BG though. Have you ever done this kind of crumb before? My guess is that this is conveniently the first time you've made this kind of crumb.

[mutantdevle]

Also Elmo, one day you are going to stop voting for me over this kind of thing :3

[mutantdevle]

Had there been no crumb and you role claimed with a wagon on you then I would have believed you. But in its current state, your claim just screams desperate scum.

So, I'm "desperate" because "there's no wagon me"?? Explain how the claim works from a "desperate scum" when you ALSO acknowledge there has not been a wagon on me.

There was no wagon on you when you made the crumb. A wagon had since started to build on you after it was pointed out that something you said in the post could be a traitor soft claim. That is my point. Obviously, the wagon has currently gone no further than that. If you truly are the BG, then the claim was a TERRIBLE idea. You clearly claimed just to shut down the building wagon which is one of the things that I consider as panicky rather than waiting until you were at L-2 or L-1 to claim which is a more rational thing to do. If this had occurred later in the day then perhaps your crumb would be more believable. Your crumb was a long-term plan to confirm yourself if needed but you have jumped the gun and used it in the short-term. It just doesn't add up to me.

@mutant: I don't care about your alignment right now (in this post), but you're assuming I play the same way as someone who had only joined the site 3 months ago (actually 2-3 days later than 3 months ago, but whatever). Look at my stats and tell me if Scum!me could ever be caught by Town!you (assuming you are Town ONLY for the sake of the argument) on D1.

I'm assuming the first part of this is a cheap shot at the amount of time I've been on this site? I've actually been playing mafia for 6-7 months now but my months before joining this site was spent on a site that only ever has 72 hours days and isn't taken too seriously which results in half the town lurking and only 3 pages worth of posts per game day. I'm still in adjustment from the culture there to here. I also do not believe registration time means much. You can nail it on your first game (my most sucessful game was actually my first ever one on that other site) and even the strongest of veterans can fail hard at times. Despite your impressive stats, you are not exempt from this. You've lost games in the past and you can certainly lose games and make mistakes again. So yes, there is every chance town me could catch scum you. I wouldn't exactly call this my catch though if you are scum. I didn't see the potential of your post being a traitor soft claim until it was pointed out and I believed your BG claim until someone pointed out the crumb could have been planted as a backup. Had neither of those things happened scum you would have fooled me easily. You also forget that I almost caught you last game. Had anyone but N_M made it to that 2v1 I would have been able to at least get a word in about why I thought you were the SK (even if some of the logic was wrong). We won't ever know if I'd be able to convince the other person of your guilt but the point is that I was thinking along the right lines. Of course, just because I was right then it doesn't mean I am right now. But it certainly refutes the idea that I am not good enough to see through you. As far as I am concerned with our last game, you did deserve the victory as you would have won anyway had there been no mod error and your kill on Fitz went through.

My advice is this: IF you're Town, back off NOW (and save yourself the embarrassment). If you're Scum though, I'm not about to tell you how to improve your Scum play.

You have no right to give me any advice on how to play until you have flipped or the game has ended. Until then, your words have no meaning. Sure if your town your words have meaning but for all I know you are scum trying to manipulate me. This is, after all, a game of manipulation. There will be no embarrasment if I am wrong. Everyone is wrong at times in this game. I've been wrong before. I'll be wrong again. And if I am wrong now, then I appologise. But until you give me reason to believe I am wrong, I am not going to assume I am wrong. I'd appreciate it if, instead of insulting my play, you focused more on refuting my points and showing me how I am wrong rather than telling me I am wrong. Because that way, I am prepared to listen.

@Everyone: I want mutant lynched today. If he flips Mafia it is proof enough for me that Mafia actually DID recruit their Traitor already, so the RC can actually catch the "Goon" they are assigned to catch.

You probably don't believe this but I'm not going to flip scum. You, at the very least, have to think about what that would mean. You'd have to lead the town to lynch the other 2 that are on your wagon in search of proof for this theory. If you do get me lynched, I reccomend not doing that and instead going after people you think are legitamately scummy rather than OMGUSing the people that are hesistant to believe your claim. If the people you scum read are also currently on your wagon then that's just a bonus.

so the RC can actually catch the "Goon" they are assigned to catch.

RC? As in Role Cop? You mean Goon Cop (GC) right?

[mutantdevle]

Like what does 'until' mean? You wouldn't have had a problem with it if Una didn't say he thought he was a traitor?

Correct. I believed the BG claim until the idea that the crumb was set as a backup for if his traitor soft claim was too obvious was put into my head. From there, I thought about that idea and it made more sense to me.

So, are you arguing that only investigative roles can/should crumb? Like are you saying that if he did the exact same thing except claiming Goon Cop instead of BG you would have been fine accepting it?

I wouldn't be okay with it in this context. He wouldn't be crumbing his results, he'd be crumbing his role. Crumbing a role doesn't make sense to me unless you expect to have to role claim. There was nothing at the time that would suggest that he would need to do this. Hence, the crumb makes no sense to me as it was unwarrented.

I don't really understand the bolded - you're arguing that he anticipated being scumread so he decided to crumb BG and at the same time crumb traitor? Like why make the traitor crumb at all just then which could easily backfire on him? Does this theory still hold if he was groupscum and not a traitor?

Of course the theory wouldn't hold any ground if he was group scum. But if we knew he was group scum then we need not have this discussion :P What I'm arguing is that Almost is the traitor. As a result, he soft claimed the idea that he was a "bad guy" in the hopes the group scum would pick up on it. However, he knew there was a chance that town members would pick up on it and argue that he was the traitor. So, to counteract that, he also crumbed BG so that he could claim that if he needed to.

Why are you still voting him ...?

Because I am under the impression he is the traitor. Just because scum would join the wagon if they knew he was town doesn't mean I can't join the wagon if I think he is scum.

I don't get it. Why is he desperate scum? Why was he so desperate at the time that he felt the need to set all of this up?

The way I am phrasing it probably isn't the best way to be honest and I'm probably overusing the word desperate. He wasn't desperate at the time he set this up. But if he is indeed scum, then it means his backup plan to claim BG has failed (at least it has in regards to those of us on his wagon). Panicky or nervous would probably be a better word than desperate tbh. His reactions to both my own and Una's accusations feels like he's not too sure what to do. His vote on me is pure OMGUS and based on nothing more than his belief that I am wrong (which would be his belief as either allignment). In general, he is coming across as caught and trying to find a way out.

As for you being wrong, how am I supposed to convince you? You say the crumb was a long-term plan and I say it wasn't. All you need to do is wait until I flip to know you're wrong.

And YES, everybody's can be wrong, but not everybody is so naive at it. You acknowledge I'm good at being Scum (good enough o have deserved the win as the lone SK), but you're accusing me of making a BASIC mistake in my play. Why would I ever signal myself out to my proposed team if I wasn't even suspected before that point? You have it all backwards. If I was a Traitor I would have waited to see if a wagon ever formed on me before I tried to wave my hand on my friends to help me out. Otherwise, I would have just stayed put. The Traitor -after all- has a 1-shot BP, so it's not like my proposed Scum team could accidentally kill me.

But GOOD JOB at making me second guess my SR on you.

When it comes to convincing me, I'm not too sure what you can do. That's kinda your problem :3 It might not be a case of convincing me that your innocent but rather convincing me to vote someone scummier (since there's the possibility you're a PR that doesn't strike me as too hard). I'm not willing to let you live past day 3 though unless something major happens that makes you confirmed town during that time. As for the basic mistake, basic mistakes are the most common mistakes that professionals make. Correct!me would mean that you felt confident in your backup BG claim and expected that to work (and hence explains your shakey actions in your surprise that it didn't for at least 2 of us).




Just to clarify something, is this style of claim and crumbing common on this site? I have only ever seen it done twice (once on this site, once on the other I used to play) and on both occasions the crumb was by caught scum. So I'm not sure if I'm being anecdotally biased here.

[mutantdevle]

That’s how you do the convincing thing.

UNVOTE:

Time to sleep and then go to work for a full day. I’ll be back in 18-20 hours.

[mutantdevle]

You're unvoting because it's a common play for him? (I'm assuming anyway, I'm not reading through the games he linked). Do you think it makes it less alignment indicative? I agree that it does.

Well of course I'm not going to vote him for something that isn't AI for him. I'm not fully convinced that the BG crumb wasn't a backup plan though but that is resolved through time. But like I say, Almost doesn't get to live past day 3. So @Almost, try to get yourself killed by then please <3

[mutantdevle]

Mutant feels a bit too tryhardy for my liking

I'm always like this

[mutantdevle]

So we have two people claiming roles and one was IC

???

Is the IC claim serious?

Is this question serious?

- Innocent Child (revealed at Day 1 start)

If people can't even spot joke posts then what hope have we in spotting scum?

[mutantdevle]

omg I suck!

I actually think this was a scum-reaction.

Umm no... Your vote is OMGUS and shitty. He is just pointing this out.




Whenever I think about the Screenplay wagon, all I see is this:

And that deters me from it.

[mutantdevle]

Umm no... Your vote is OMGUS and shitty. He is just pointing this out.

Why is it OMGUS?
Like, people call a vote OMGUS everytime you vote someone who has voted you.
My basis was that it felt opportunistic.
skitter30 being the one to start the wagon doesn't feel scummy, but the worst following in her footsteps does.

You never specified that in your post. You simply said you are voting for them because they turned on you. That comes across as OMGUS.

[mutantdevle]

Oh, I read alright.
Now I need the time to write.

I'm leaving for work now, so will try to write in ~12 hours.

Are you going to be one of those players who keeps promising reads but never delivers?

[mutantdevle]

Oh, I read alright.
Now I need the time to write.

I'm leaving for work now, so will try to write in ~12 hours.

Are you going to be one of those players who keeps promising reads but never delivers?

Hey now Im one of those players. SO why are we not lynching Screen today

Who says we weren't?

[mutantdevle]

Can you clarify your position on the srceen wagon please?

He seems scummy but he's also an easy lynch. I think he's just naturally scummy looking. I'm not sure whether I genuinely consider him scum this game but if he's going to get mislynched eventually then we may as well get it over with in the hope that he is scum this time.


Btw @all, I'm sorry for not being all that invested in the game atm, I'll step up my activity and contributions once I re-read the entire thread and ISO some people.

[mutantdevle]

In regards to Creature's meta, in the 1 game I played with him he was extremely active. It gave me the impression that Creature was an active player in general so I was surprised to hear that he is known to be a lurker. He was town in that game.

[mutantdevle]

Intent, if only for the claim. (Don't think that means I'm not serious about the intent though).

Just a thought: If Srceen is scum then that means Jay is probably the scum's counter wagon and hence FoS on skitter and the worst. (Doesn't mean they are definitely both scum but I do think they should be looked into and pressured over it).

[mutantdevle]

Screenplay, to clarify, you say the reason math's name is in your reads is that you accidentally included him since you are/recently were in another game with him?

[mutantdevle]

On the old forum I used to play before joining this site, most read lists would include an RVS style read on both yourself and the mod. Had you claimed that your inclusion of dino was a simple joke I would have been comfortable refuting the idea that it was a scum slip. But given your reasoning, I think it's somewhat reasonable to believe it was a scum slip despite it being a rather weak theory.

Personally, I don't believe it was. Pretty sure I, at the very least, town lean you. Not that my opinion means much at this point though.

[mutantdevle]

I also want you flipped because of that last post by mutant.

Is this one of those things that people say when they really mean 'I'm going to use the flip to scum read this person regardless of what the flip is'. I mean, this might be a HUGE jump in conclusion but the impression I get from this simple sentence is that "If you flip scum, then mutant is scum for town reading you but if you flip town then mutant is scum for knowing you'd flip town'.

[mutantdevle]

LEGO might be ok.

Wrong.

[mutantdevle]

Now tell me, WHY would I even be scumread for that?

Because of your little emojis. Every time I see them I think scum. Lol

Wait, I'm not the only one that thinks the smileys look inherently evil? I've always avoided using them because they just look... off.

[mutantdevle]

On the old forum I used to play before joining this site, most read lists would include an RVS style read on both yourself and the mod. Had you claimed that your inclusion of dino was a simple joke I would have been comfortable refuting the idea that it was a scum slip. But given your reasoning, I think it's somewhat reasonable to believe it was a scum slip despite it being a rather weak theory.

Personally, I don't believe it was. Pretty sure I, at the very least, town lean you. Not that my opinion means much at this point though.

Please dont reference your old site

I was giving backstory as to why a joke read on the mod would make sense to me.

Also, according to you: I can't post walls. I can't post things about my old site. What can I post? Nothing? If that's your answer then it would certainly explain your playstyle :3

I've always avoided using them because they just look... off.

Worried your scumminess would shine through?

[mutantdevle]

skitter, you're town reading N_M for his very low effort, barely playing, trolly posts that are NAI for him?

[mutantdevle]

I regret taking you seriously in our previous game.

[mutantdevle]

Is king a hydra though?

[mutantdevle]

I might start posting my proper posts in a few hours time since I have time to catch up and reread the thread and do some isos then.

[mutantdevle]

Anything would be helpful at this point, Devle. Glad you have the time to reread the game here.

I might fall asleep though

[mutantdevle]

I'm probably going to die night one now if I fuck up,

Aren't you forgetting someone? A50 is the bodyguard. You have 1 night to make your role block useful.


@A50, if Jay dies tonight then I will take it as a scum claim from you.

[mutantdevle]

I'm the Town Roleblocker.

Did you need to specify 'town'?

[mutantdevle]

I'm probably going to die night one now if I fuck up,

Aren't you forgetting someone? A50 is the bodyguard. You have 1 night to make your role block useful.


@A50, if Jay dies tonight then I will take it as a scum claim from you.

And THIS IS A SCUMCLAIM! Thanks for letting us know your team picked JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja)

VOTE: mutant

Honestly, I actually completely forgot that they can do that.

I don't mind you scum reading me but don't be cocky about it. Trying to say I am scum as a fact by saying I am 100% definitely scum is way too arrogant. The only way you could ever be sure of such a percentage is if we were scum buddies which we obviously are not. And no, that wasn't an attempt to make you look scummy if I flip scum, as you would find out if I flipped.

[mutantdevle]

I'm not sure if A50 is actually scum after all who is doing a good job of pushing their confidence or just genuinely a prick who thinks they are above everyone. I'm hoping it's the former.

[mutantdevle]

I don't like arrogant people. I bullet them as policy if I'm in a position to do so. I'd take a town full of N_M's over a town full of arrogant people any day. At least he is entertaining in his annoyingness.

[mutantdevle]

I'd prefer that kind of game over a game where literally everyone thinks everything they say and think is right and treats others as though they are inferior.

[mutantdevle]

Sit down, and keep quiet. Didn't anybody tell you that it's bad manners to interrupt the conversation of two adults??

Nice joke. Everybody laughed.

[mutantdevle]

I would roll my eyes at your comments but I'm too busy blinking.

[mutantdevle]

everyone thinks everything they say and think is right

So, it's not only me you're mad on?

I wasn't referring to everyone here thinking they are right. You are the only one doing that. I'm just saying that a game where everyone was like you would be unbearable. But in general, I will be mad on anyone who tries to talk like they know everything. Because it means they either actually have that knowledge due to being scum or they are just an incredibly closed minded person.

[mutantdevle]

Lol I swear N_M is just online 24/7 constantly refreshing the page just to make comments at the right time :P

[mutantdevle]

@A50, now maybe i'm missing someone but I don't see what about mutant's post makes it a scumclaim. All he's doing is pointing out that if you're the BG it gives claimed RB Jay a chance to use his power since you can protect him. Why are you jumping on him for that?

Idk... maybe the part where I specifically say it would be a scum claim from A50 if Jay dies? I completely overlooked the possibility that the scum has a JOAT and use the strongman to bypass his protection. I think it's perfectly reasonable that he would jump on me with the belief that I am scum with the knowledge that scum could do that and hence my comment would be me setting up A50 to look like scum.

[mutantdevle]

You probably explained in more clearly though tbh :P

[mutantdevle]

Oh wow, I found a crystal ball! I wonder what we can see in it?

Spoiler:

[mutantdevle]

Maybe I should start using images to push my reads?

Maybe I should actually get reads for this game.

[mutantdevle]

Oh wow, I found a crystal ball! I wonder what we can see in it?

Spoiler:

So you think she's flipping RED? Why aren't you voting her then?

When did I say she was flipping red? I just made a joke over the potential that she will be lynched based on her username.

You probably just don't know who Elmo is and hence think I am implying she will flip red by the colour of the character in the image.

Let me clear the confusion:

[mutantdevle]

@Jay: Don't deviate from the plan. Check post #964278 in the Scum PT.

Omg, I think this might be a traitor crumb in disguise.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant, why aren't you voting?

I don't typically vote unless it is for pressure, I am sure of my read, or time is running out. When time gets low I always vote for my strongest wagoned scum read. I apologise for barely being useful today. I haven't been putting a lot of thought into the game due to irl stuff. I'm usually far more active and my posts are usually chunky. It's very unlike me to not have a solid reads list down by now. It's honestly surprised me that no one has picked up on my way more active meta. I've been intending to reread the entire thread + iso people + analyse posts + make cases and finally post a reads list but I just haven't gotten around to it. I will do that eventually though but I'm beginning to think I'd have to wait until day 2 for that. Hopefully, I will get it done on Tuesday but if I fail that I'd try for Thursday and if not I will try to get in done during N1. I give no promises for any of this though.

[mutantdevle]

That feel when a job decides your not allowed to focus on Mafiascum.net.

That feel when life decides you’re not allowed to focus on Mafiascum.net.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant has
A) jumped on A50 sheeping Una: Defence: not heavily invested into the game

That was not sheeping. I added my own opinions, thoughts and explained my own thinking. If I was sheeping I would simply post a simple post with the general meaning of "I agree" and had been done with it. I made pushes against A50 and backed off when this push had both nothing left to gain and nowhere to go in terms of a wagon. And my own acknowledgement of not presently being very interested in the game was not a defence of my posts against A50. Almost all the posts I have made day 1 were posted with a lack of full interest (including this one). You will see what I mean when I start posting more frequently and with higher scum hunting quality. I stand by what I said about A50, I still think it's plausible he is scum and I would definitely consider him a scum read if not for the claim which is self-resolving.

B) defended srceen calling him an easy lynch and naturally scummy, THEN saying he should be lynched even though he is not confident srceen is scum. In hindsight of my town read, SCUMMY as it is good to put pressure and perhaps a lynch onto srceen without being on the wagon

I never said he

should

be lynched. I said:

if he's going to get mislynched eventually then we may as well get it over with

I never said I think he IS scum nor do I advocate for any wagon or any pressure. Saying that I think he should be lynched is a blatant misrepresentation of my opinion. If anything, I describe him as a mislynch. I think we can all agree that the later during the game a mislynch happens the more damaging it is since the stakes are higher and there is more pressure.

C) posted intent to hammer Srceen "if only for the claim" --> very scummy IMO. PR hunting (srceen, that is what real PR hunting looks like)

I believed that him saying he wouldn't claim until there was intent was a waste of time. It also posed the risk that someone would lolhammer without the claim. My purpose of stating intent was to cut the crap and save some time in getting the claim. I'm under the impression that it's standard practice to claim at L-1 is it not?

D) a few posts later town reading srceen, even though you were "serious" about the intent. To seriously intend to hammer you are normally convinced someone is scum, why did you flip your opinion, I did not see a reason? You seem a bit wavery on screen going from calling it a sheep wagon to posting intent to hammer then town reading. Scummy IMO

The intent to hammer was 100% purely for the claim. Has he claimed immediately, there would have been no intent. Because I don't explicitly scum read him. This entire game he has been in my "town lean but needs a closer analysis as so many people scum read him" pile. As part of my catchup, I intend to look into him a bit more to see if I agree with the town's opinion that he's scummy scum. But as I am not properly invested in the game yet, I am yet to do that. The intent was 'serious' in the way that if he refused to claim after my intent I WOULD have followed it up with a hammer. I was barely around at the time so there was a good chance I wouldn't be taken seriously. I wanted to make it clear that I mean what I say and I don't make empty threats. You might want to remember that for later.

E) supposedly set up a50 for a lynch, not sure how I feel about this right now

What do you mean 'supposedly'? As in you don't actually know? And then, either way, you don't know what you feel about it. This is a list of criticisms against me right? So why is this pointless statement here that you aren't even certain about how valid it is?

F) Joking well after RVS is over causing votes, wtf?

So it's

my

fault that

someone else

is basing their vote on a joke I made? Shouldn't you be criticising them instead for such a weak vote? It doesn't hurt to make jokes you know, plenty of people have been doing it and I don't see you attacking them for making jokes after RVS. If you ever role claim as the goon cop then I'd definitely believe it since clearly you are the fun police.

I'm maybe 60% scum

Omg, I think this might be a traitor crumb in disguise.

[mutantdevle]

^^ wasn't a town lean then. He was null when I said i'd be okay with his lynch.

And here's what I was intending to happen from my intent:

Either:
Screen L-1 --> No role claim, requests intent --> I post intent --> Screen refuses to claim --> I hammer.
OR (and preferably):
Screen L-1 --> No role claim, requests intent --> I post intent --> Screen role claims --> People unvote --> We don't have to lynch someone who would probably lynch town.

My intent was an intent to hammer if there was no role claim. It was not an intent to hammer based on reads. A role claim of literally anything put an end to my intent. Had I been scum, a VT role claim would have allowed me to hammer since it's reasonable to hammer someone who has claimed a role of low importance.

I was going to finish this post by saying "@Elmo, tell them that I don't intend to come across as PR hunting" but then I realised Elmo has replaced out and cannot vouch for that. My meta, however, can. Just look at how I was wagoned up D1 (but not lynched) because I said something that looked like PR fishing in the recently ended game I was in that Elmo modded. I had no intention of PR hunting there and I can assure you I have no need to know who the PRs are here unless they feel they have something to share by claiming.

[mutantdevle]

Why did my role matter if you were not going to hammer anyway?

I believed that him saying he wouldn't claim until there was intent was a waste of time.

So you declared intent to hammer but you didn't mean it because you didn't scumread him but you would've done it if he didn't claim even though you didn't scumread him

Is his defence like.... an epic bluff or a scumclaim?

I would have hammered because I don't town read him enough to consider it worth it to go out of my way to keep him alive. My most common position on people I don't believe are scum is the hammer. I don't get why it's so hard to understand I would only hammer if he refused to claim thereafter anyway. You claim at L-1, that's my opinion. At the very least, you claim a PR you don't want to reveal.

Sure, but you had declared an intent to hammer with a timeframe, and the wagon was kinda fizzling a bit by that point as people were focusing on Jay/Creature. Given that interest it would have been suspicious to hammer at that point.

I heavily disagree with this statement.

It seems even more dangerous to get another claim day 1, though.

So... you're saying we should definitely lynch within the 3 people who have already claimed? This seems like you are trying to get us to lynch screen here. We have a claimed BG, roleblocker and VT. If we HAD to lynch out of those 3, literally everyone would go for the VT.

So, which was it? Like can you clarify what your read on him was in 321, and also what your read was when you posted intent?

I don't mean 'this entire game' as literally as you are taking it. Obviously, I didn't have this view before he has even posted. On both occasions, and even now, my read is a weird mixture of null and town lean, both at the same time in a kinda way. My impression/memory of his post yields town lean, but everyone else's scum accusations towards him and the natural kinda scummy-ness in his tone makes me null read him until I reread the entire thread.

I don't really get why your willingness to hammer was independent of reads but instead based on whether or not he claimed. Like I'm not sure why the bolded didn't apply to the first scenario?

Independent of reads because ALL my reads are currently weak due to not being invested in the game yet. I had said I'd hammer if there was no claim and I would have followed to prove that my words are not empty.

So, like, what's the point of stating intent in order to make him claimm? You say you weren't explicitly PR fishing ... but the more VT claims that there are the easier it is for scum to PoE who the PRs might be. No matter what he claimed, you helped scum out by forcing him to do so.

He should have claimed anyway. He was at L-1. He said he'd claim with intent, there is no way someone else wouldn't have placed intent if I had not, by getting the intent out of the way everything happens faster and we waste less time.

[mutantdevle]

Has been a busy and emotional last few days for me which is largely why I have been uninterested in this game. That is over now (well not over but I don't have to put time into anything anymore) so from now on I plan to be more active and productive in this game. I did plan to complete the re-read and stuff that I've been saying I'd do for a while now tomorrow but then I saw that I was at L-1...

I am a Vanilla Townie. You will find that I crumbed that. Not sure where, but I'm sure you could probably find a post where 2 words next to each other start with V and T respectively.

Now here's the thing, I don't want to do extensive catch up on the game and waste my time if y'all are just going to lynch me. As such, I won't be doing that unless the bandwagon on me dies down a bit.

My assumption right now is that I am to be lynched. We have had enough wagons today and it's about time one of them went somewhere. It's a shame really because I was looking forward to playing with NSG again now that I have more experience from our last game. As such, I believe replying to accusations of "you're scum" with "no I'm not" is a waste of time and instead I will use the little time I have to properly state my reads (prior to this post I simply hint them) and say some things to steer town in the right direction for day 2.


Reads list:

Town

Espeonage - I agree with a lot of what he says.
Sky_Paladin - Again, I really like the things he has been saying and the scum hunting comes across as town.

Town Lean

Srceenplay - I think I've said enough about Screen in this game tbh.
northsidegal - Liked the entrance, definitely seems like she is scum hunting from the perspective of someone who doesn't know who scum are.

Null

Not_Mafia - If he isn't vig killed tonight then policy lynch him tomorrow. Scum isn't going to kill someone who is such a MYLO threat.
JaydragonKing - Has said a lot but doesn't stand out.

Scum Lean

the worst - Not entirely convinced he is scum, but if he is then one of his partners is skitter30.
skitter30 - I could honestly believe that worst and skitter are the same person in disguise.
Montosh - Are you doing anything?

Scum

Almost - I'm tempted to say I don't actually believe his BG and had there not been one I'd have been looking to tunnel him. But since it's self-resolving, lynch him day 3 when you find he isn't dying.
legoboyvdlp - My top scum read off the top of my head. I plan to REALLY look into him if I get a chance to do my catchup. I feel like he is giving an illusion of helping without actually adding much substance.
UnaBombaH - Scumm and slightly opportunistic IMO.


Something I just want to say is be cautious of people pushing the traitor hunting agenda. There is no guarantee there is a traitor and only the scum will know the answer to this. Out of all the scum options to pick, traitor is probably the most likely one that scum would risk having another PR over. But still, some people insisting a traitor really exists could be scum trying to make people focus less on hunting by association.


Also, this isn't the first time I've been put to L-1 for allegedly role fishing when I really wasn't intending to. And as it turns out, scum founded that wagon. So, y'know, just sayin'. I've found that history does tend to repeat itself.


If y'all are going to lynch me then I'd appreciate it being done in the next 16 hours. I don't think I have anything to add if the phase turns to twilight and I have time to do my catchup tomorrow but ideally want to know if it is worth it by the time I wake up.

[mutantdevle]

Was screen already voting?

[mutantdevle]

Yes. So I’m still alive I guess.

And if you think my reads are bad then you’re probably right. My reads are bad on a good day but considering I’ve not been that invested they’d probably be waaaay off. (In before my scum reads are all scum).

[mutantdevle]

You could legit just end it though, NotMaf. You have all the power in the world. He doesn't even want to defend himself unless the pressure is off him.

I’m not going to defend myself lol. Why would I randomly throw out a defence if the pressure died down? I’m going to be more invested if this bandwagon dies and probably tunnel Lego if I am seeing what I think I’m seeing.

[mutantdevle]

I'm voting because I don't like how he piggy-backed off of Una's push on A50,

It’s shit like this that makes me scum lean you. Una never pushed A50. Una placed a vote with a reason, I agreed with said reason, developed it, pushed it, and then unvoted when there was no traction. I don’t recall Una actually doing anything about A50 during that entire conversation I had with him.

[mutantdevle]

I was assuming you were still accusing me of steeping (pretty sure you said I was sheeping Una earlier in the game). And his self meta pursauded me to unvote but I’ve never been sure if I believe the BG BS. The wagon was going no where anyway. We can agree that A50 likes to crumb so I see no reason why he wouldn’t have crumbed traitor.

[mutantdevle]

No the pagetop is mine

When I saw sky offering the page top to the mod I just knew you’d be the next to post...

[mutantdevle]

I feel like claiming VT and giving a pretty meh readlist is too scummy for scum coming from Mutant. Could be traitor or maybe there's no daychat tho ig

mutant is scum in this game, I promise. On top of SRing him from his play, I think I've just discovered a secret tell about him. I can't talk about it right now, but it probably confirms him as Scum (at least to me).

Don't make promising you can't keep.

[mutantdevle]

I feel like claiming VT and giving a pretty meh readlist is too scummy for scum coming from Mutant. Could be traitor or maybe there's no daychat tho ig

mutant is scum in this game, I promise. On top of SRing him from his play, I think I've just discovered a secret tell about him. I can't talk about it right now, but it probably confirms him as Scum (at least to me).

Don't make promising you can't keep.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong and won't be using that tell again with you, but I was a bit surprised by you getting overly nervous and seemingly mad by my intimidation earlier, acting as if you were "personally offended" or something, when you've already played with me before and know that's how I play in general.

Lol I wasn't offended :3 I just don't like arrogance. You were nowhere near as arrogant last game.

[mutantdevle]

Who do you want me to vote?

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Yan-ot_Mafia-kee

This vote not counted due to ambiguity. - Math

[mutantdevle]

Well I mean it was a joke vote...

[mutantdevle]

I’ve not been too engaged with this game so am yet to push anyone. I’m now in a position where I could be more engaged but refuse to do so whilst there is a high chance I am to be lynched. My reads list was by no means an attempt to push anyone and simply serves as a way to clearly express my opinions on everyone should you need such information after my death.

[mutantdevle]

I don’t like to vote scum reads without making my own analytical push.

So if you want me to vote then you’ll have to go by my policy one.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

If he doesn’t get viged then the latest you can let him live is day 2.

[mutantdevle]

Oh cool. Correct me if I am wrong but I am now at L-3? I guess that means I'm not getting lynch (for now). Should that remain or decrease by the time I wake up, I will actually post stuff.

There isn't enough time in this game day to fully catch up, but there is something in particular I would lack to tackle tomorrow and believe I have time to do so. I'm hoping my posts tomorrow will be as good as I think they will be.

[mutantdevle]

I’m going to go ahead and sheep A50’s bah post.

Baaaaaaah.

[mutantdevle]

Lol, my reads were so poor. Even in the dead thread where I had extra knowledge...

GG all.

I didn’t even realise this was Math’s first game as a mod. You seemed so professional and experienced with it