♥ ♠ Open 711: Stack The Deck - Game Over ♣ ♦

[northsidegal]

unabombah is town and i think the wagon on him is pretty bad (page 10).

[northsidegal]

His BG-explanation didn't convince me, but since everyone else left the wagon, me hanging on makes no sense and helps no one.

To summarize: you accuse A50 of crumbing traitor and vote him, and a few people hop on and/or agree with you. After much discussion, the wagon fizzles out and you unvote because 'at least it got people talking'. I ask you about that and vote you, and you vote the worst, who's sheeping me.

Can you clarify this for me?

How does unvoting the guy who you think is crumbing traitor 'helpful'

given that you didn't even follow your unvote with a vote on someone else? Like you're basically saying that you thought it was more beneficial to town to unvote the guy you think is crumbing traitor and leave your vote on no one than to keep your vote on the guy you think is crumbing traitor.

it still doesn't mean he didn't. But. Assume he IS the traitor, the scum might still shoot him now, or at least they SHOULD, so that should resolve itself.

Right, that's my point.

It's likely self-resolving, so voting him today is kinda silly imo

, and I don't really understand why you did it in the first place.

skitter, am i misunderstanding something here to say that you're criticizing una for unvoting while also saying that it would be silly to keep his vote there?

[Almost50]

Is this question serious?

Yes, because I saw an IC claim.

It would've been good if it was serious, because I would know it was fake.

would've been nice if creature was still in the game, because i'd like to ask him about this – there's no way he should know it's fake. i've read back a few pages and know that elsa has already claimed roleblocker, but that still doesn't give any information that would indicate that an ic claim is fake.

From the setup wiki page: "Innocent Child (reveal at start of day one)"

[northsidegal]

i know, but the wording of "i would know it was fake" seems to imply something more than the obvious of "ics are revealed at gamestart and this one wasn't so thus i know it's a lie". if that

was

was he meant then that's such a banal observation coming from creature that i'd still imagine it makes him more likely scum.

[Almost50]

Oh, well.. I think you might be able to read Creature better than I, but I didn't see anything Scummy in jay's play either, and with him already claiming then I guess he's self-resolving in a couple of days, just like me.

[Sky_Paladin]

Basically a prod dodge post. I have a job interview in about 48 hours and I need to focus for that. I'll be around and able to read posts but don't expect any walls from me until then.

[JaydragonKing]

That feel when a job decides your not allowed to focus on Mafiascum.net.

[Espeonage]

I am currently at work.

[mutantdevle]

That feel when a job decides your not allowed to focus on Mafiascum.net.

That feel when life decides you’re not allowed to focus on Mafiascum.net.

[skitter30]

A VC is at the pagetop of this very page and you can run down the following 10 posts to know of vote changes. (See how scummy every post you make looks?? If you're truly a VT the YOU SUCK my friend.)

To be clear, I edited the VC in right after post 745. - Math

:/ This is like super shade-throwing-y.

You can be town now.

the questions in 165 are very superficial (no offense).

Eh, I get that a lot.

I find that if I ask more pointed, direct questions, I have a tendency to frame the question in such a way that tells people what I want to hear, which kinda defeats the purpose.

So instead I tend to ask more general questions in order to approach the topic I'm actually interested in from a more oblique angle, and use those general questions to build towards something more specific.

I'm not sure which questions you're specifically referring to though.

unabombah is town and i think the wagon on him is pretty bad (page 10).

Why is Una town?

skitter, am i misunderstanding something here to say that you're criticizing una for unvoting while also saying that it would be silly to keep his vote there?

Kinda? *I* think it was a silly vote to make in the first place, because it's self-resolving. However, *he* thought it was a worthwhile push to make today, so I don't really understand why he unvoted and stopped pushing it. IE he says he thinks he found the traitor, so I don't really get why he unvoted him and just left his vote on no one given that he thought he found a strong candidate for scum.

Basically a prod dodge post. I have a job interview in about 48 hours and I need to focus for that. I'll be around and able to read posts but don't expect any walls from me until then.

Good luck!

[the worst]

just had a little bit of a reread and did some ISOs. I'm honestly struggling with the player count and like overabundance of awesome playstyles here but I'll try my best to be more valuable winding up to day end.

mr. lego

sorry to focus on you D1 in 2/2 games but would you be kind enough to give me a readlist?

i'm at page four and i already think espeonage is obvscum for 86 to 88.

northsidegal

762 is my new fav intro ever
sorry to bomb you while you're catching up but I have to ask, why do you find those posts obvscum?

[legoboyvdlp]

So I'm town for semi-scum-reading Mutant?

Anyway The Worst

Scum

mutantdevle

Null

Everyone else - null
Skitter - town-null
the worst - town-null
Srceenplay - town-null

Town

None

That is

only

what I've seen from this game, that is, not counting gut-feely thingy

If you want that too... well, let me know, I really need to go right now.

[skitter30]

So I'm town for semi-scum-reading Mutant?

It's more cuz I thought your progression from scum!screen to town!screen to be very natural and it doesn't seem faked to me, and the analysis in the post I kinda-quoted also gave me town vibes and sort of sealed my impression of town!lego

[legoboyvdlp]

Ah... oh ok, got it.
I

[mutantdevle]

Mutant has
A) jumped on A50 sheeping Una: Defence: not heavily invested into the game

That was not sheeping. I added my own opinions, thoughts and explained my own thinking. If I was sheeping I would simply post a simple post with the general meaning of "I agree" and had been done with it. I made pushes against A50 and backed off when this push had both nothing left to gain and nowhere to go in terms of a wagon. And my own acknowledgement of not presently being very interested in the game was not a defence of my posts against A50. Almost all the posts I have made day 1 were posted with a lack of full interest (including this one). You will see what I mean when I start posting more frequently and with higher scum hunting quality. I stand by what I said about A50, I still think it's plausible he is scum and I would definitely consider him a scum read if not for the claim which is self-resolving.

B) defended srceen calling him an easy lynch and naturally scummy, THEN saying he should be lynched even though he is not confident srceen is scum. In hindsight of my town read, SCUMMY as it is good to put pressure and perhaps a lynch onto srceen without being on the wagon

I never said he

should

be lynched. I said:

if he's going to get mislynched eventually then we may as well get it over with

I never said I think he IS scum nor do I advocate for any wagon or any pressure. Saying that I think he should be lynched is a blatant misrepresentation of my opinion. If anything, I describe him as a mislynch. I think we can all agree that the later during the game a mislynch happens the more damaging it is since the stakes are higher and there is more pressure.

C) posted intent to hammer Srceen "if only for the claim" --> very scummy IMO. PR hunting (srceen, that is what real PR hunting looks like)

I believed that him saying he wouldn't claim until there was intent was a waste of time. It also posed the risk that someone would lolhammer without the claim. My purpose of stating intent was to cut the crap and save some time in getting the claim. I'm under the impression that it's standard practice to claim at L-1 is it not?

D) a few posts later town reading srceen, even though you were "serious" about the intent. To seriously intend to hammer you are normally convinced someone is scum, why did you flip your opinion, I did not see a reason? You seem a bit wavery on screen going from calling it a sheep wagon to posting intent to hammer then town reading. Scummy IMO

The intent to hammer was 100% purely for the claim. Has he claimed immediately, there would have been no intent. Because I don't explicitly scum read him. This entire game he has been in my "town lean but needs a closer analysis as so many people scum read him" pile. As part of my catchup, I intend to look into him a bit more to see if I agree with the town's opinion that he's scummy scum. But as I am not properly invested in the game yet, I am yet to do that. The intent was 'serious' in the way that if he refused to claim after my intent I WOULD have followed it up with a hammer. I was barely around at the time so there was a good chance I wouldn't be taken seriously. I wanted to make it clear that I mean what I say and I don't make empty threats. You might want to remember that for later.

E) supposedly set up a50 for a lynch, not sure how I feel about this right now

What do you mean 'supposedly'? As in you don't actually know? And then, either way, you don't know what you feel about it. This is a list of criticisms against me right? So why is this pointless statement here that you aren't even certain about how valid it is?

F) Joking well after RVS is over causing votes, wtf?

So it's

my

fault that

someone else

is basing their vote on a joke I made? Shouldn't you be criticising them instead for such a weak vote? It doesn't hurt to make jokes you know, plenty of people have been doing it and I don't see you attacking them for making jokes after RVS. If you ever role claim as the goon cop then I'd definitely believe it since clearly you are the fun police.

I'm maybe 60% scum

Omg, I think this might be a traitor crumb in disguise.

[JaydragonKing]

Ah... oh ok, got it.
I

This feels like he was murdered half way through typing his message and died hitting submit.

That final "I"... Makes you wonder, huh?

[legoboyvdlp]

lol
I wasn't murdered... I mistyped on my phone

[legoboyvdlp]

That was not sheeping. I added my own opinions, thoughts and explained my own thinking. If I was sheeping I would simply post a simple post with the general meaning of "I agree" and had been done with it. I made pushes against A50 and backed off when this push had both nothing left to gain and nowhere to go in terms of a wagon. And my own acknowledgement of not presently being very interested in the game was not a defence of my posts against A50. Almost all the posts I have made day 1 were posted with a lack of full interest (including this one). You will see what I mean when I start posting more frequently and with higher scum hunting quality. I stand by what I said about A50, I still think it's plausible he is scum and I would definitely consider him a scum read if not for the claim which is self-resolving.

I hope you do!

I believed that him saying he wouldn't claim until there was intent was a waste of time. It also posed the risk that someone would lolhammer without the claim. My purpose of stating intent was to cut the crap and save some time in getting the claim. I'm under the impression that it's standard practice to claim at L-1 is it not?

The intent to hammer was 100% purely for the claim. Has he claimed immediately, there would have been no intent. Because I don't explicitly scum read him. This entire game he has been in my "town lean but needs a closer analysis as so many people scum read him" pile. As part of my catchup, I intend to look into him a bit more to see if I agree with the town's opinion that he's scummy scum. But as I am not properly invested in the game yet, I am yet to do that. The intent was 'serious' in the way that if he refused to claim after my intent I WOULD have followed it up with a hammer. I was barely around at the time so there was a good chance I wouldn't be taken seriously. I wanted to make it clear that I mean what I say and I don't make empty threats. You might want to remember that for later.

But how does your intent stop any random person from lolhammering? You would hope it would, but how would you be certain? I'm looking forward to your catchup.

What do you mean 'supposedly'? As in you don't actually know? And then, either way, you don't know what you feel about it.

Precisely

I'm maybe 60% scum

Omg, I think this might be a traitor crumb in disguise.

SMH

[skitter30]

@mutant: spoiling the quotes I'm citing to avoid a quote wall

Spoiler:

He seems scummy but he's also an easy lynch. I think he's just naturally scummy looking. I'm not sure whether I genuinely consider him scum this game but if he's going to get mislynched eventually then we may as well get it over with

in the hope that he is scum this time.

It's waffly and fence-sitty and kinda looks like you're looking for mislynches and like you're OK with just accepting Srceen as a mislynch instead of trying to like sort him.

I never said I think he IS scum

nor do I advocate for any wagon or any pressure.

Saying that I think he should be lynched is a blatant misrepresentation of my opinion. If anything, I describe him as a mislynch. I think we can all agree that the later during the game a mislynch happens the more damaging it is since the stakes are higher and there is more pressure.

You didn't explicitly say he *should* to be lynched, but 321 makes it clear that you were OK with his lynch, even if he was town.

And I disagree that you weren't pressuring him. By saying that you were OK with his lynch irregardless of his alignment, you implicitly supported it and overall contributed to that air of complacency that I was objecting to earlier. Also stating intent to get a claim is explicitly pressuring him.

And I disagree with the premise that his mislynch is inevitable.

The intent to hammer was 100% purely for the claim.

I think that this reinforces lego's point that you were PR hunting.

This entire game he has been in my "town lean but needs a closer analysis as so many people scum read him" pile. As part of my catchup, I intend to look into him a bit more to see if I agree with the town's opinion that he's scummy scum

So I don't really get why you were complacent with his lynch earlier 'in the hope that he is scum this time' if screen was a townlean (321).

[mutantdevle]

^^ wasn't a town lean then. He was null when I said i'd be okay with his lynch.

And here's what I was intending to happen from my intent:

Either:
Screen L-1 --> No role claim, requests intent --> I post intent --> Screen refuses to claim --> I hammer.
OR (and preferably):
Screen L-1 --> No role claim, requests intent --> I post intent --> Screen role claims --> People unvote --> We don't have to lynch someone who would probably lynch town.

My intent was an intent to hammer if there was no role claim. It was not an intent to hammer based on reads. A role claim of literally anything put an end to my intent. Had I been scum, a VT role claim would have allowed me to hammer since it's reasonable to hammer someone who has claimed a role of low importance.

I was going to finish this post by saying "@Elmo, tell them that I don't intend to come across as PR hunting" but then I realised Elmo has replaced out and cannot vouch for that. My meta, however, can. Just look at how I was wagoned up D1 (but not lynched) because I said something that looked like PR fishing in the recently ended game I was in that Elmo modded. I had no intention of PR hunting there and I can assure you I have no need to know who the PRs are here unless they feel they have something to share by claiming.

[Srceenplay]

Why did my role matter if you were not going to hammer anyway?

[the worst]

So you declared intent to hammer but you didn't mean it because you didn't scumread him but you would've done it if he didn't claim even though you didn't scumread him

Is his defence like.... an epic bluff or a scumclaim?

[Montosh]

^^ wasn't a town lean then. He was null when I said i'd be okay with his lynch.

And here's what I was intending to happen from my intent:

Either:
Screen L-1 --> No role claim, requests intent --> I post intent --> Screen refuses to claim --> I hammer.
OR (and preferably):
Screen L-1 --> No role claim, requests intent --> I post intent --> Screen role claims --> People unvote --> We don't have to lynch someone who would probably lynch town.

My intent was an intent to hammer if there was no role claim. It was not an intent to hammer based on reads. A role claim of literally anything put an end to my intent.

Had I been scum, a VT role claim would have allowed me to hammer since it's reasonable to hammer someone who has claimed a role of low importance.

I was going to finish this post by saying "@Elmo, tell them that I don't intend to come across as PR hunting" but then I realised Elmo has replaced out and cannot vouch for that. My meta, however, can. Just look at how I was wagoned up D1 (but not lynched) because I said something that looked like PR fishing in the recently ended game I was in that Elmo modded. I had no intention of PR hunting there and I can assure you I have no need to know who the PRs are here unless they feel they have something to share by claiming.

Sure, but you had declared an intent to hammer with a timeframe, and the wagon was kinda fizzling a bit by that point as people were focusing on Jay/Creature. Given that interest it would have been suspicious to hammer at that point.

[JaydragonKing]

That does seem like a weird attempt to say "Trust me I'm town". I'm more currently on the idea that, while it sounded horrible, devle meant well. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

The extension gives up like six-ish days left now. And some people are now completely against the Screen Lynch and we have 3 claims as well. It seems even more dangerous to get another claim day 1, though.

[skitter30]

This entire game

he has been in my "town lean but needs a closer analysis as so many people scum read him" pile.

^^

wasn't a town lean then

. He was null when I said i'd be okay with his lynch.

So, which was it? Like can you clarify what your read on him was in 321, and also what your read was when you posted intent?

Either:
Screen L-1 --> No role claim, requests intent --> I post intent --> Screen refuses to claim --> I hammer.
OR (and preferably):
Screen L-1 --> No role claim, requests intent --> I post intent --> Screen role claims --> People unvote -->

We don't have to lynch someone who would probably lynch town

.

My intent was an intent to hammer if there was no role claim. It was not an intent to hammer based on reads. A role claim of literally anything put an end to my intent.

Had I been scum, a VT role claim would have allowed me to hammer since it's reasonable to hammer someone who has claimed a role of low importance.

I don't really get why your willingness to hammer was independent of reads but instead based on whether or not he claimed. Like I'm not sure why the bolded didn't apply to the first scenario?

Bolded/italics together: Kinda sound like you want WIFOM-y towncred for not having hammered someone you think would 'probably lynch town', unlike what you would have been able to do as scum?

I had no intention of PR hunting there and I can assure you I have no need to know who the PRs are here unless they feel they have something to share by claiming.

So, like, what's the point of stating intent in order to make him claimm? You say you weren't explicitly PR fishing ... but the more VT claims that there are the easier it is for scum to PoE who the PRs might be. No matter what he claimed, you helped scum out by forcing him to do so.