Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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First of all: you are fully competent enough to understand the difference between MyLo and LyLo.In post 1251, Thor665 wrote:
We get to lylo either way...In post 1249, Klick wrote:Transcend doesn't get hissecondshot. Which changes everything. That's why the Vig was made two-shot in this setup, and why vigs are numbered evenly in general. Eventually we could end up in MyLo, where optimal play is to no-lynch. Killing Transcend essentially means town lost a town-controlled kill.
Pretending not to suggests that you see some tactical motivation in attributing the Transcend shot to Transcend's reads, which given his reads, well.
I think that it is absolutely your style to push scum win-condition, then when it fails, to derail onto a bus to repair your standing in the town.If it's not my style (and...what awareness are you claiming of my style?) then what makes you think I changed how I play scum in order to play this weird new way here?
The implication is that you should have someone that you scumread more than a lurker, though I will agree that his point is not great and stand by you as the logically correct one here.You're saying it's impossible for a lurker to be scum?
Because that's the only way this is an issue.
I don't think that anything that you have done this game requires you to be playing bad as scum.I gave a case on you - it's that your case on me is so blind and bad as to require you to be scum.
It's actually very slightly like your case on me - except the it doesn't require you to be intentionally playing bad as scum for the case to work as a scum case.
This interaction feels far less pointed than I would expect and sort of reads as SvS attempts at distancing to me.I did.
Though in what I'm quoting you'd already established that you thought it was most likely for zero to one bussers max.
And I felt that two bussers was more likely than zero bussers and was curious to see if I understood you correctly.
Once you clarified I then got curious and asked more.
They statistically are, but given that I have an 11/13 shot record on vigs in finished games, I may have a different feeling about them than is the norm.If you believe Vig kills are superior or equal to lynches, sure.
This is really your top priority to discuss? Because it feels like scum posture to me.I mean, just to clarify, he killed an active poster who most people had as a town read who was indeed town.
Describe how that's different from a scum kill.
I'll wait.
This doesn't feel like the way you talk as town. You held up far better than this against me throwing the book at you in the game with Una.So now you're offering a really mediocre complaint of me talking theory when, basically it just happened this phase, for about three posts while I was also actively mauling your case on me and explaining why you're scum.
You duck all of that to make this complaint.
And post some videos.
Meh.
The way you post reads like you're faltering under pressure and that reads as more likely to come from scum you than as town who believes that you are being pushed by scum.
Again: this feels like you're scum who believes that the case against you is objectively shit.@Beef - literally moz is not dealing straight, and I think it's obvious. However you are apparently reading my rebuttals and his and finding him to be full of facts and me to be full of lies.
Why?
Please explain it, I'd be curious to see the thought process.
I promise not to even debate it - and just leave it alone for others to assess, but I want to see you unpack it.
How exactly I define the difference between you being town and you being scum here isn't something in the realm of logic but I feel like there's something conscious in you attempting to boil everything down to facts and lies.
You obviously feel that you can compete in a game of macho repartee with anyone in this game (with the possible exception of me) so you're focusing on that but I feel like as town you'd be more like
asserting yourself as obvtown in general? Whereas here you're trying to limit the domain of the game to the one you feel you most excel in and I feel like you'd be more confident as town.
Actually I think it would be a reasonably strong play but if no one else besides me wants to lynch Mozamis for pushing scum wincondition harder than anyone in the game then I'm just going to move on and tell Transcend that he's a smurfwit for that as well as his Moneybags shot in postgame. There's not going to be any PR catches on people who played well as scum, the only goal is to get one person into the strongest possible position at one point.As a very minor third point - your reads also require moz and I to be scum theatre if I'm scum and we're amongst your strongest reads.
Why in the world would you think scum would pull the gambit we are in trying to make a 1 v 1 situation today? That doesn't seem like good play (or maybe you're going with the moz theory that I don't understand how to play to my wincon as scum at all )
This is true but doesn't address the heart of what Maxous was saying: not that scum wouldn't expect to die but that he didn't expect scum to talk about it in that manner.1 I can agree his activity is non-alignment indicative. I'm just not sure where the 'banking on dying' becomes face value town true. If he was scum he could have been banking on dying from Transcend's shot just as much as if he were town, yeah? So, even if true - how is it alignment indicative?
So first off, the actual case for you being scum is fine, just some of the other stuff is uhh questionable.Because his case is so thin as to be an inverse of itself. It's literally laughable how hard he's going in considering how empty his case is - and I'm the only one saying it while I have Beef claiming he's making good points and you claiming I'm not being clear (like...whut?) and Flubber so blind needing to tunnel me that, even though he is kind of aware moz's case is a laugh, he can't bring himself to unvote.
Second off, people's grasps of logic are rarely related to your alignment and if you're going to predicate your reads around town being logical and scum being illogical you might as well not play mafia.
Finally, Flubber being aware that Moz's case is a laugh doesn't mean that he thinks Moz is wrong. If I make a shit case on you and you completely unravel it you are not automatically town for it.
I also am not super fond of Moz's case on you or Moz's play in this game but that doesn't mean that I am obligated to think that you are town.
Weren't you just earlier in the day phase talking about how you don't respect my play because of the Transcend so on and so forth?The case on me is dumb, RC, and you are the first one voting me who objectively I'm aware should be better than this.
As for my actual case on you being scum, that will follow.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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@Everyone else.
If RC answers True to #1 and #2 *and* I flip town at any point in this game. Please lynch RC.
And she's currently backing this case, so I presume she's at least somewhat going to answer true/true...
I mean I can give you the long form if you really want it, but it won't be right this minutebut even one more post on that from you is active lurking.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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The actual short form of the case on you is that you don'tfeellike you would as town, that you're posturing in a bunch of ways that I wouldn't expect you to as town, and that I'm getting to PoE stages.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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This is uhh not a good reason to believe that Tex/HWS is not a thingIn post 176, HeWhoSwims wrote:
QFT.In post 174, texcat wrote:
Hmmmm...In post 172, Flubbernugget wrote:So make a case or something
VOTE: Flubbernugget
Telling me to make a case, when you are not. Plus telling us that voting Bella is a town thing to do, when you are not.
Flubber, care to explain why both of these points are a thing?
but again I guess that says more about Tex than it does about you at this stage.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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Okay COA let's get this out of the way. I'm not actually townreading you.
I've defended you thus far because I know that I can townread you but as of right now I am not.
You need to do more in this game so that I can have a real read on you or I am going to want you lynched.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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Hey Thor can you do me a massive favour and cite me a time where you asked for a confirmed town to be lynched if you flipped town or anything equally posturey because that seems... not right2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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Thor is really the big ? right now
Biggest reason to townread him is he's been pushing (if my reads are right in general) town wincon a lot and he's one of the few people as scum who usually actively pushes scum wincon
I think that it would not be terrible to lynch him today because if he's town I can pretty confidently reduce the game down to 3
that said we could just lynch people who are more likely to flip scum2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RC is town or go smurf yourself
Flubber is town
Beefster is very likely town
Mozamis probtown I guess
CoA is still probtown (not 100%sies, will get there)
don't have a lot of reason but think Maxous town
EP ??? do content
Thor meh. I originally read him town.
that leaves Klick and Texcat, both of whom have kind of bad jumps at the end of the wagon and make sense as partners2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I never made a case on you Thor. I didn't actually go back and read you until today.
I basically just said 'your play does sort of make sense as a scum play, no the push on you does not, largely, make sense.'
I do feel that your reaction was more postured than I'm used to seeing and if that is in fact something characteristic of your towngame and I'm not aware of it you would do town a great service by linking me to examples of similar reactions so that I know that it's non alignment indicative because at this point that's the only thing that makes me think you could be scum.
So yes in a sense I unvoted you because I was being daft but to say that requires me to have actually thought you were a likely scum flip as opposed to being curious what would come of the vote.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I also refuse to clear anyone from bussing no matter how rarely they bus, given how me and Titus took advantage of that in 685 where she claimed cop with a guilty on me and was handed the game on a platter. I do think that, ignoring who the partners are, tunneling one person and then bussing a partner when you're in a weak slot is a fine play.
I may or may not have claimed things about the likeliness of you being scum, I literally don't remember because I was never really pushing you, but you were never a scumread as much as you were an I'll vote here and see what comes of it.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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If Texcat was on my team in my first post in scumchat I would have told her that I plan to gradually bus her and have her lynched day 1 / day 2 if she's okay with that.In post 1361, Klick wrote:Hello RC I am somewhat here.
Also skimming your spam, you mention a Klick/texcat scumteam - which I argue sounds ridiculous if you look at who I've been pushing all game2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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This sounds like mafia to me manIn post 1369, Klick wrote:every single town push in this game has been driven by other town2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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Can't put words to it but this strongly suggests to me that he was bussed by at least one scumpartner.In post 1140, HeWhoSwims wrote:Welp. Have a fun game. I'll be watching from the sidelines ^^2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I didn't say strongly bussed. I said strongly suggests he was bussed.
I think that the most likely scumteams right now are {Tex/CoA} and {Tex/Klick}
Either way I don't think scum were the drivers of the wagon2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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I don't know. If you're town I'd like you to help me see it: you can start by explaining what makes you so certain in Tex and rattle off who you think are partnersIn post 1384, Klick wrote:RC, what did you want me around for exactly?2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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hrm
how is this self conscious though2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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In post 130, mozamis wrote:
why didnt you at least mention one of your reads?In post 85, Klick wrote:I had reads skimming through this, but I'm not around for very long. I'll prolly post something in the next 2ish hours?
UNVOTE:
fos klickIn post 202, mozamis wrote:
moz,penguin,thor,beef,cult,max= town.In post 200, mozamis wrote:
moz,penguin,thor, beef townIn post 55, mozamis wrote:moz, penguin, thor town. P.O.E ahoy!
so scum in Klick, Hewho,Errant,Flubber,Bella, Tex,Moneybags
3scum in 7, not a bad lynch pool for day 1.
Before people go mental, these are PROVISIoney
ONAL DAY 1 reads. I like to be captain obvious, get a sensible lynch pool going for day 1.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT TOWN POOL are confirmed. It just helps me focus.
But yeah, we should defintely be looking at those 7In post 205, mozamis wrote:anyone else think that those interactions between Bella and Klick were scum and scum? they didnt seem very suspicious of each other?
totally happy with calling scum team of Bella, Kilck and Hewhoswims atm.In post 260, mozamis wrote:Swims and Money town - so much content.
@ Thor - i guess i meant "changed his vote", not "changed his mind". He changed his vte when someoenasked him why he was voting Cult. looked like scum panicing to me.
P.O.E town: Moz, thor, swims,money,flubber,maxous and cult.
Lynch in: Penguin (drops out of town bloc because no scumhunting yet),Bella, Beef, errant,klick,tex
so we got to the coin flip stage!
my scum team is prob. bella, beef and ??? atmIn post 368, mozamis wrote:
too much info, nervous scum?In post 342, Klick wrote:'m not quite sure how I would have handled the situation were I scum, but I don't think it would be like that.fos klick
?????????????????????????????????In post 388, mozamis wrote:@ Klick - join me on Bella.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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Oh and for clarity my progression on Moz was
1) well everyone else thinks he's town whatever I'll drop it I don't feel like fighting
2) Wait Thor is actually probably town
3) Wait that's both of us who thought that this fucker was scum
4) holy fuck this guy has been scum mvp this game
5) wow that is one scummy iso
at no point did I ever actually reevaluate to town I just got tired of everyone else being wrong2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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by certain i mean a shit tonIn post 1395, RadiantCowbells wrote:Klick/Moz has a certain allure2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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If I can't do Moz this is my #2.In post 1373, Flubbernugget wrote:I never thought I'd see a game where there would be the slightest semblance of synergy between me and RC
Pedit I think both of our points gel well then. Klick wagon?2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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say you love me and I can help you with this.In post 1401, texcat wrote:UNVOTE: I can see that the Beefster lynch isn't going anywhere.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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