Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll go ahead and say sorry Thor you probably shot the wrong PR for this game.

VOTE: Thor665

I think that Tex is the buddy though

[RadiantCowbells]

think you're kinda missing the point here

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I could just post memes and collect a huge commission but sure let's do this.

[RadiantCowbells]

Transcend doesn't get his

second

shot. Which changes everything. That's why the Vig was made two-shot in this setup, and why vigs are numbered evenly in general. Eventually we could end up in MyLo, where optimal play is to no-lynch. Killing Transcend essentially means town lost a town-controlled kill.

We get to lylo either way...

First of all: you are fully competent enough to understand the difference between MyLo and LyLo.
Pretending not to suggests that you see some tactical motivation in attributing the Transcend shot to Transcend's reads, which given his reads, well.

If it's not my style (and...what awareness are you claiming of my style?) then what makes you think I changed how I play scum in order to play this weird new way here?

I think that it is absolutely your style to push scum win-condition, then when it fails, to derail onto a bus to repair your standing in the town.

You're saying it's impossible for a lurker to be scum?
Because that's the only way this is an issue.

The implication is that you should have someone that you scumread more than a lurker, though I will agree that his point is not great and stand by you as the logically correct one here.

I gave a case on you - it's that your case on me is so blind and bad as to require you to be scum.
It's actually very slightly like your case on me - except the it doesn't require you to be intentionally playing bad as scum for the case to work as a scum case.

I don't think that anything that you have done this game requires you to be playing bad as scum.

I did.
Though in what I'm quoting you'd already established that you thought it was most likely for zero to one bussers max.
And I felt that two bussers was more likely than zero bussers and was curious to see if I understood you correctly.
Once you clarified I then got curious and asked more.

This interaction feels far less pointed than I would expect and sort of reads as SvS attempts at distancing to me.

If you believe Vig kills are superior or equal to lynches, sure.

They statistically are, but given that I have an 11/13 shot record on vigs in finished games, I may have a different feeling about them than is the norm.

I mean, just to clarify, he killed an active poster who most people had as a town read who was indeed town.
Describe how that's different from a scum kill.
I'll wait.

This is really your top priority to discuss? Because it feels like scum posture to me.

So now you're offering a really mediocre complaint of me talking theory when, basically it just happened this phase, for about three posts while I was also actively mauling your case on me and explaining why you're scum.
You duck all of that to make this complaint.
And post some videos.

Meh.

This doesn't feel like the way you talk as town. You held up far better than this against me throwing the book at you in the game with Una.
The way you post reads like you're faltering under pressure and that reads as more likely to come from scum you than as town who believes that you are being pushed by scum.

@Beef - literally moz is not dealing straight, and I think it's obvious. However you are apparently reading my rebuttals and his and finding him to be full of facts and me to be full of lies.
Why?
Please explain it, I'd be curious to see the thought process.
I promise not to even debate it - and just leave it alone for others to assess, but I want to see you unpack it.

Again: this feels like you're scum who believes that the case against you is objectively shit.
How exactly I define the difference between you being town and you being scum here isn't something in the realm of logic but I feel like there's something conscious in you attempting to boil everything down to facts and lies.
You obviously feel that you can compete in a game of macho repartee with anyone in this game (with the possible exception of me) so you're focusing on that but I feel like as town you'd be more like
asserting yourself as obvtown in general? Whereas here you're trying to limit the domain of the game to the one you feel you most excel in and I feel like you'd be more confident as town.

As a very minor third point - your reads also require moz and I to be scum theatre if I'm scum and we're amongst your strongest reads.
Why in the world would you think scum would pull the gambit we are in trying to make a 1 v 1 situation today? That doesn't seem like good play (or maybe you're going with the moz theory that I don't understand how to play to my wincon as scum at all )

Actually I think it would be a reasonably strong play but if no one else besides me wants to lynch Mozamis for pushing scum wincondition harder than anyone in the game then I'm just going to move on and tell Transcend that he's a smurfwit for that as well as his Moneybags shot in postgame. There's not going to be any PR catches on people who played well as scum, the only goal is to get one person into the strongest possible position at one point.

1 I can agree his activity is non-alignment indicative. I'm just not sure where the 'banking on dying' becomes face value town true. If he was scum he could have been banking on dying from Transcend's shot just as much as if he were town, yeah? So, even if true - how is it alignment indicative?

This is true but doesn't address the heart of what Maxous was saying: not that scum wouldn't expect to die but that he didn't expect scum to talk about it in that manner.

Because his case is so thin as to be an inverse of itself. It's literally laughable how hard he's going in considering how empty his case is - and I'm the only one saying it while I have Beef claiming he's making good points and you claiming I'm not being clear (like...whut?) and Flubber so blind needing to tunnel me that, even though he is kind of aware moz's case is a laugh, he can't bring himself to unvote.

So first off, the actual case for you being scum is fine, just some of the other stuff is uhh questionable.
Second off, people's grasps of logic are rarely related to your alignment and if you're going to predicate your reads around town being logical and scum being illogical you might as well not play mafia.
Finally, Flubber being aware that Moz's case is a laugh doesn't mean that he thinks Moz is wrong. If I make a shit case on you and you completely unravel it you are not automatically town for it.
I also am not super fond of Moz's case on you or Moz's play in this game but that doesn't mean that I am obligated to think that you are town.

The case on me is dumb, RC, and you are the first one voting me who objectively I'm aware should be better than this.

Weren't you just earlier in the day phase talking about how you don't respect my play because of the Transcend so on and so forth?

As for my actual case on you being scum, that will follow.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like there's a sort of simmering resentment that's a fairly global response to scum who are under pressure that they think is bad, and I see it squarely in your play today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay here's my scumcase you

you vanished from the thread when I showed up because you were quaking in your boots at the thought of having to hide from Town!RC

easy

[RadiantCowbells]

@Everyone else.
If RC answers True to #1 and #2 *and* I flip town at any point in this game. Please lynch RC.

And she's currently backing this case, so I presume she's at least somewhat going to answer true/true...

but even one more post on that from you is active lurking.

I mean I can give you the long form if you really want it, but it won't be right this minute

[RadiantCowbells]

No, that specific thing was a joke. The fact that I think you're scum is not.

[RadiantCowbells]

The actual short form of the case on you is that you don't

feel

like you would as town, that you're posturing in a bunch of ways that I wouldn't expect you to as town, and that I'm getting to PoE stages.

[RadiantCowbells]

That third person though

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

Okay, let's look at other people.

[RadiantCowbells]

1335

[RadiantCowbells]

So make a case or something

Hmmmm...

VOTE: Flubbernugget
Telling me to make a case, when you are not. Plus telling us that voting Bella is a town thing to do, when you are not.

QFT.

Flubber, care to explain why both of these points are a thing?

This is uhh not a good reason to believe that Tex/HWS is not a thing
but again I guess that says more about Tex than it does about you at this stage.

[RadiantCowbells]

But do I trust this town to gamesolve if I just take the lynch on Tex

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay COA let's get this out of the way. I'm not actually townreading you.
I've defended you thus far because I know that I can townread you but as of right now I am not.
You need to do more in this game so that I can have a real read on you or I am going to want you lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Moz you can't brute force a lynch by volume in a game with me.

Can you just calm down and look at other people for now

[RadiantCowbells]

Klick hit me up when you're around

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Thor can you do me a massive favour and cite me a time where you asked for a confirmed town to be lynched if you flipped town or anything equally posturey because that seems... not right

[RadiantCowbells]

Thor is really the big ? right now
Biggest reason to townread him is he's been pushing (if my reads are right in general) town wincon a lot and he's one of the few people as scum who usually actively pushes scum wincon
I think that it would not be terrible to lynch him today because if he's town I can pretty confidently reduce the game down to 3

that said we could just lynch people who are more likely to flip scum

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is town or go smurf yourself
Flubber is town
Beefster is very likely town
Mozamis probtown I guess
CoA is still probtown (not 100%sies, will get there)
don't have a lot of reason but think Maxous town

EP ??? do content
Thor meh. I originally read him town.

that leaves Klick and Texcat, both of whom have kind of bad jumps at the end of the wagon and make sense as partners

[RadiantCowbells]

maybe if we had

MONEYBAGS

alive this would be an easy PoE

[RadiantCowbells]

like in an objective choice mozamis has been the #1 pusher of scum win condition this game

[RadiantCowbells]

but still probably bad town
maybe thor is town because mozamis is too bad to possibly be pushing them if they're scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah let's not lynch either of Thor or Mozamis today, thanks.

[RadiantCowbells]

I never made a case on you Thor. I didn't actually go back and read you until today.
I basically just said 'your play does sort of make sense as a scum play, no the push on you does not, largely, make sense.'

I do feel that your reaction was more postured than I'm used to seeing and if that is in fact something characteristic of your towngame and I'm not aware of it you would do town a great service by linking me to examples of similar reactions so that I know that it's non alignment indicative because at this point that's the only thing that makes me think you could be scum.

So yes in a sense I unvoted you because I was being daft but to say that requires me to have actually thought you were a likely scum flip as opposed to being curious what would come of the vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

I also refuse to clear anyone from bussing no matter how rarely they bus, given how me and Titus took advantage of that in 685 where she claimed cop with a guilty on me and was handed the game on a platter. I do think that, ignoring who the partners are, tunneling one person and then bussing a partner when you're in a weak slot is a fine play.

I may or may not have claimed things about the likeliness of you being scum, I literally don't remember because I was never really pushing you, but you were never a scumread as much as you were an I'll vote here and see what comes of it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hello RC I am somewhat here.

Also skimming your spam, you mention a Klick/texcat scumteam - which I argue sounds ridiculous if you look at who I've been pushing all game

If Texcat was on my team in my first post in scumchat I would have told her that I plan to gradually bus her and have her lynched day 1 / day 2 if she's okay with that.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't see why you're not, especially following a Texcat flip (presumably a scum one.)

[RadiantCowbells]

Begs the question of whether I trust town to finish the job.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

every single town push in this game has been driven by other town

This sounds like mafia to me man

[RadiantCowbells]

Well I meant like. Most mafia games every single town push is driven by other mafia.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm thinking still. I kind of want to just take out Tex because I feel pretty sure they're scum based on the hammer.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's interesting but my best reason to townread Maxous is that he repeatedly called HWS scum after the wagon got started but didn't actually vote them

[RadiantCowbells]

I think the lynches are Tex/Klick/EP/CoA right now

[RadiantCowbells]

Uhh I can confirm that Thor always buses, am expert on silverware.

[RadiantCowbells]

Welp. Have a fun game. I'll be watching from the sidelines ^^

Can't put words to it but this strongly suggests to me that he was bussed by at least one scumpartner.

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't say strongly bussed. I said strongly suggests he was bussed.
I think that the most likely scumteams right now are {Tex/CoA} and {Tex/Klick}

Either way I don't think scum were the drivers of the wagon

[RadiantCowbells]

EP's the wildcard because I don't have enough of a read on them to say whether or not they are scum

[RadiantCowbells]

RC, what did you want me around for exactly?

I don't know. If you're town I'd like you to help me see it: you can start by explaining what makes you so certain in Tex and rattle off who you think are partners

[RadiantCowbells]

To me at this point it's largely PoE. When I'm questioning my NSG townread you know that things are really dicey for scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll go verify whether I'm sure that Mozamis is town again

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi everyone, let's make it a good game and good luck!

VOTE: Thor665

this is my least favourite post. bit self conscious?
VOTE: hewhoswims

hrm

how is this self conscious though

[RadiantCowbells]

@Thor unvote please

[RadiantCowbells]

I had reads skimming through this, but I'm not around for very long. I'll prolly post something in the next 2ish hours?

UNVOTE:

why didnt you at least mention one of your reads?

fos klick

moz, penguin, thor town. P.O.E ahoy!

moz,penguin,thor, beef town

moz,penguin,thor,beef,cult,max= town.

s

o scum in Klick, Hewho,Errant,Flubber,Bella, Tex,Moneybags

3scum in 7, not a bad lynch pool for day 1.
Before people go mental, these are PROVISIoney
ONAL DAY 1 reads. I like to be captain obvious, get a sensible lynch pool going for day 1.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT TOWN POOL are confirmed. It just helps me focus.
But yeah, we should defintely be looking at those 7

anyone else think that those interactions between Bella and Klick were scum and scum? they didnt seem very suspicious of each other?
totally happy with calling scum team of Bella, Kilck and Hewhoswims atm.

VOTE: Beef
that list...scummy, empty BS.
Bella, Beef, Klick scum team?

Swims and Money town - so much content.
@ Thor - i guess i meant "changed his vote", not "changed his mind". He changed his vte when someoenasked him why he was voting Cult. looked like scum panicing to me.

P.O.E town: Moz, thor, swims,money,flubber,maxous and cult.

Lynch in: Penguin (drops out of town bloc because no scumhunting yet),Bella, Beef, errant,klick,tex
so we got to the coin flip stage!
my scum team is prob. bella, beef and ??? atm

'm not quite sure how I would have handled the situation were I scum, but I don't think it would be like that.

too much info, nervous scum?

fos klick

@ Klick - join me on Bella.

?????????????????????????????????

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah I'm going to indulge my egotism and say that everyone else is probably wrong here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, not everyone else. Thor is a thing that exists.

[RadiantCowbells]

But I still refuse to support this wagon unless I get the first vote, because that's just how things are done around here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Klick/Moz has a certain allure

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh and for clarity my progression on Moz was

1) well everyone else thinks he's town whatever I'll drop it I don't feel like fighting
2) Wait Thor is actually probably town
3) Wait that's both of us who thought that this fucker was scum
4) holy fuck this guy has been scum mvp this game
5) wow that is one scummy iso

at no point did I ever actually reevaluate to town I just got tired of everyone else being wrong

[RadiantCowbells]

Klick/Moz has a certain allure

by certain i mean a shit ton

[RadiantCowbells]

I never thought I'd see a game where there would be the slightest semblance of synergy between me and RC

Pedit I think both of our points gel well then. Klick wagon?

If I can't do Moz this is my #2.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh and

[RadiantCowbells]

pagetop smurfs

[RadiantCowbells]

Maybe Klick is wrong. I think that could be town.
Also think Tex could be town.

Wondering about Beefster again.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh there we go that's the one.

moz/beefster.

[RadiantCowbells]

ggwp.

VOTE: Mozamis
VOTE: Beefster

pick one.

[RadiantCowbells]

I told you that I'd be the one I'll be there in the life to come.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE: I can see that the Beefster lynch isn't going anywhere.

say you love me and I can help you with this.

[RadiantCowbells]

well you have to unvote him first

[RadiantCowbells]

Also I'm not voting Moz for pressure, he's just out.

[RadiantCowbells]

you should take a moment and read the moz-beefster associations because they're pretty damning once you assume that moz is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean that in a way that I suspect no one else will agree with but I'm reas. confsies in it

[RadiantCowbells]

you wanna lynch moz and give me your trust on beefy if he's scum

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're looking for scum motivated posting then look no further than Mozamis

[RadiantCowbells]

Would you agree that if you asked the majority of people on this site who the strongest town players in this game were, that they would say me and Thor?

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I'll get you a case for sure because I feel like actually dissecting it for personal satisfaction, but that should say something on its own

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi everyone, let's make it a good game and good luck!

VOTE: Thor665

this is my least favourite post. bit self conscious?
VOTE: hewhoswims

Nothing self conscious about this post and it feels like he's scum who is trying to distance early.

I also brought up how he was repeatedly calling Klick scum the entire game but randomly ended up asking him to vote with him. That doesn't make sense.

anyone else think that those interactions between Bella and Klick were scum and scum? they didnt seem very suspicious of each other?
totally happy with calling scum team of Bella, Kilck and Hewhoswims atm.

Ro3 puts hewhoswims as scum and hewhoswims has also been the person who he has said the least about scumreading up to this point.

VOTE: Beef
that list...scummy, empty BS.
Bella, Beef, Klick scum team?

Ro3 subs in Beef, hmm.

VOTE: CultOfAthena

Let's try something completely different.

and what the fuck is this anyway? we are a LONG way out of RVS, So much content, so many things if your are town you could talk abotu/vote for. But you vote for no reason?!
Yep, happy with a Beef lynch. Lets go.

Another exaggerated as fuck and likely SvS vote.

VOTE: maxous

Town leans pls

This looks a bit opportunistic to me.

yeah this could be a good catch. 3rd vote on the wagon, no great reason for it.
town lean Beef,

fos flubber

i retract this. Beef much scummier than Flub.

Okay we heard you the first time.

The flubber wagon felt stale at the time, but it seems to be picking up momentum. She's been pinging my scumdar. She feels very methodical/mechanical in her posts.

VOTE: Flubber

I am still suspicious of COA.

then you change your mind under a tiny bit of pressure?!
yep, Beef is scum.

Yeah at this point you are

definitely

trying to make a show of how much you think that Beef is scum.

I'm retracting my retraction on my mozamis read, which is to say that I'm fairly confident that he's town and is now posting exactly how I remember him to post from our last game together.

you gotta love the moz

Gut says that I've seen scum say this in response to town townreading them before.

It takes a while for me to figure out how to describe things and details bore me.

a kindred spirit! me too, i like the overview approach!

gonna UNVOTE:
i was really flying on the caffiene when i voted him and there is a chance i was simply talking out of my ARSE.
he has responded well- i think its a fair point to say all reads are quite vague at this stage.
anyway, its all good for P.O.E!
Beef into town pile.

fuck is this read transition? It's again highly exaggerated, feels SvS, etc.

much rather a wagon on bella. the replace out LITERALLY doesnt matter. Guilty until proved innocent. (sorry, it really bugs when i suspect scum replacing out, because i know it sends Town into paroxyms of "ooo, lets be fair and give the replacement a chance" no. the role pm remains the same. bella was scum, the replacement is scum too. No mercy, no quarter given. WE GIVE THE FUCKER ROPE.)
ah, the caffeine has kicked in lol

This is excessive as hell and I don't believe that mozamis is actually this bad.

wow 3 or four fluff posts in a row from a supposedly good player!
go go go
VOTE: radiantscumbells

this is garbage, and again, I don't believe that this dude is actually that bad.
Already went over how I strongly disbelieve his claim to not know who I am and that he realized that by admitting to he was basically scumclaiming so he avoided it.

this kinda sounds like a threat - i dont respond well to threats, so calm the aggro down. if you tunnel me simply out of omgus, then you are a poor town player. maybe you are titus lol
look, i get it - if you are town, then it always hurts to be scum read. but your predecessor was ascummy a shell, and you cam in with some fluff, so yeah, i did scum read you.
you can bluster and threaten all you want, it's not gonna help.
on a completely different subject, i dont respond well to bullies, capiche? so lower the aggro.
i really hope i havent succumbed to "scum aggro", but your massively hysterical over reaction suggests town to me.
UNVOTE:

Again: maybe you are Titus? These are not random accidents this isn't just happening coincidentally he knows exactly what he's doing.
And frankly from just hearing MD talk about me you wouldn't really get the impression that I'm a supposedly good player given that half of the people who post in MD don't play mafia anymore and know nothing about me and assume that I'm automatically trash because I play in 2017, so I don't buy that line either.

When i flip, rc is not allowed to wiggle out of a lynch

You must all promise me that

ok.
well, although radiant has to be one of th emost emotional players EVER, she is prob on the right lines here.
We lynch Transcend, Tex and Errant and we win.
VOTE: transcend

Why is he suddenly sheeping his townread? Also this push on Transcend is overblown as fuck and scummy.

but that cc from transcend and then retraction...i mean, that's scum, pure and simple.

if transcend does flip town, we MUST speed lynch Radiant and Klick.

Like these are not posts that come from town. Sorry I don't believe that Mozamis is this bad, I think this is played up. I am very confident in it.


Not going to cite any posts but the Beefster emphasis on Mozamis and vice versa feels way overblown; they both have higher priority people to be going after and it feels like they're making a show of their conflict and this stage of the game is what makes me feel super certain that this is a 2 scum pairing. Go read this section of the game on your own time and think how you feel about the possibility of them being SvS distancing because that's the only way I can really read this bit.

esting happens he goes off on his own tangent. It feels very off to me.
Transcend/PP: I still agree with CoA about PP in early game. I'm not a fan of the events that have transpired but I'm not sold ju

can we seriously let someone live who has lied about their role?
plus he has done nothing town.

again super gross.

its too late, your a liar. cnat rutst what you are saying. and it sound slike you ar ejust trying ot survive. you are not giving out reads
town in your position would say "alrigth fuckehads i reckon xyz are scum, your dickhead sfor lynching me, but make sure you lynch xyz tomoorw" or words to that effect
youare just trying to survive.
its not confirmable AT ALL. you are scum, you know there is avig, you know 2 people will prob die, the you can argue it tomorrow.
we lynch you now.

absolute worse cae, we lynch a vig, which is as wingy as hell anyway. and we lynch anunreliable lying townie who we dont need in the game.
that is so unlikely though. we lynch transced and we lynch scum. guy couldnt be more obv scum.

First: I fully believe that Mozamis is this ballsy as scum. You're not going to convince me that they are not capable of doing this because as a scum player who does this it's

easy

.
Second: even if I thought this slot had decent odds of being scum it frankly deserves to be lynched for how anti-town and pro scum wincon it has been this game.
I'm also of the opinion that their push on Thor merits being policy lynched now that I've actually brushed up on it, but I really just think they're scum so.

*sigh* so we're gonna let him live for another night, even though tomorrow there will be so many ways for him to get out of it? (various PR concoctions, scenarios etc)
i still say we lynch him for being, you know...really scummy.

so we sure there is no way for transcend to get out of it?

LIKE COME ON GUYS THIS IS SO SO SO ICKY THAT MY FUCKING SKIN CURLS READING THESE DAMN POSTS.

I'm just going to call out the scumteam right now: RC/mozamis/COA

COA's silence at this point in the game is telling.

yes, her spweing vitrio at me, and me perhaps not being at my diplomatic best was just scum theatre?
VOTE: beefster
i think you are full of shit, voting RC?! it's a massive stretch, and what happened to your vote on me? Which also came out of nowhere?

Here's the one of the Beefster/Mozamis interaction that I feel like pointing out, they're super super exaggerated and feel super SvS to me.
But again, read through it on your own time.

Do want to also address the post where Beefster calls me cocky because I feel like I've seen that post made by scum to me when I was wrong as town before.

VOTE: ErrantParabola

I think this is probably the best lynch right now.

christ, do you want to lynch someone or not?
sure i could do errant, but what happened to beef?

But why are we not continuing on Beef? Why switch to EP? I don't see why you think there is a difference. I don't see why you and Trans would just back off Beef at the last second. I think we should flip Beef and see how it goes instead of trying to switch wagons at the last second.

exactly. ep is just another lurker lynch.
beef is more likely to flip scum.

At the time I already felt there was something really slimy here
but I take back the read: I don't think that EP is scum I think that Beef is the scum and he's just making a show of how much more he wants the beef lynch.

NICE

he who swims isnt voting - definitely a good vig, the guy has been quite active and yet hasnt voted? - and he was "suspicious" of beef?!

Connecting to Beef, really?

beef is looking more town than any of those other bottom 5. hes more involved in the game and giving out reads and changing his vote which he doesnt have to do.
money, max and hewho swims are doing nothing.

@transcend - klick town? hes tricky tho.

Wait right after he connects the guy to beef as part of the scumpush they're back into looking more town.

right i'm gonna shut up now so i dont change my mind.
but my preferrred lynch order would be Money, Hewho, Max, Errant.

VOTE: Errantparabola

may as well put my vote somewhere

god this is bad.
i'm still up for money, but anyone up for maxous? coasting scum.

@ RC - Errant has consistently been in my "happy to lynch pile" for a while. He's not my fav. choice though as i feel its a lurker lynch. Whereas Money, Max and Hewho i think are more scummy. Errants a bit of a lucky dip.
As for the flubber thing, that was a long time ago, i cant remember it, and i've changed my read on him since.
Why would Flubberscum! consistently attack one of the most Townie read players in the game, Thor?!

Conftown Transcend, RC

Town

Townlean Thor, Moneybags, Klick?, Beef

Null Mozamis, tex, COA, Max?

Scumlean Flubber, EP

Scum

If people want me voting then VOTE: Flubbernugget but as said, I'm just barely 100% confident.

this is his first vote since his FIRST POST OF THE GAME!
and what a surprise, hes got EP and Flubber as scum leans! Obv scum setting up obv lynch bait with Max.
I still think Money is probably in the scum team, but we should definitely lynch Hewho and Max.
VOTE: Hewhoswims

but seriously mozamis is just scum lol

easy on the OMGUS. You were literally calling me town 2 pages ago before i asked you to calm down.
i dont want to get into some pissing contest with you cos you are town so its a waste of time, and just what scum want.
need you with me on Hewho,Max or Money.

@moz

I have exactly zero compelling scumreads at the moment, and this is a wagon I'm merely satisfied with.

That's as much reasoning as you're going to get.

join me on Hewho. The guy literally pops up evry coupl eof days with massive, and massively wallposts which on closer insepction dont really give out any read and guy never voted!
at least flubber has clearly given out reads all game.

Because I had literally no desire to deal with people scumreading me and I correctly gauged that claiming would make people shove off.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and vote Errant?

Yeah but you have now put a target on your back, i mean if we have no JK you won't survive tonight, so how does that make sense?
Your logic was " I am a town PR, i don't want to be scum read. So I'll give myself a good chance of getting NK'ed instead!"
That does not seem to make a lot of sense.
I would understand it more if you were under pressure, but no one was even voting for you at the time! (I had unvoted you, and Transcen had said you "were probably scum", altho he hadnt voted for you).
I just dont understand the town motivation, why put a massive target on your back?
Anyway, Errant is fourth on my list, so obv i would mnmuch rather the other three?
Why dont you vote Hewho?

Again: as basically the authority on bussing on this site I think that the repeated requests for me to vote Hewho are ridiculously indicative that this is a bus.
I believe that his team thought he was in the strongest position at this point and HWS decided to make themselves available to be bussed here and keep the others alive

@ Money -i dont think he has explained himself.
he is an experienced player - and i doubt if even a new player would just ruin one of the best PR's in the game?
You believe he is town?
Maybe he is - but if he is, its a real cock up, because it means he is now a VT. Great.
I mean, fuck knows. It just doesnt make a whole lick of sense.
I say we lynch Hewho, and get back to him tomorrow.

Again, this really reads TMI. He doesn't know how to deal with the pressure on him so he wants to go through with the bus and thinks he'll have enough towncred the next day.

Well, carp. That's a revolting development.
UNVOTE:

I would have cc'd long before now, if I were not VT.

so you scum with Thor and Hewho?
Funny if all scum were on the IC.

There are less votes on Beefster than before I claimed IC, and no other viable wagon is popping up. There are three days before deadline. Get your shit together before today ends in a no lynch.

Thank you.

you oprefer Beef to Thor?

When beef starts becoming a thing he starts trying to make Thor a thing
Note that he's been acting like HWS is basically a confirmed scum flip up to this point but now he starts to seek alternate wagons repeatedly, nothing specifically I want to point to here

screw it, i'm probably overthinking it.
VOTE: texcat

Yeah, no.

sweet vote
what worreis me about Thor is this "oh it could be a fake claim "stuff. Unless i've missed something, we havent had a cc/another claim, so it obv isn't fake.
it reminds me of how i've been as scum, that frustrated "why cant these townie see that THEORETICALLY it could be fake" etc etc when we all know that in PRACTICE no townie is gonna fake claim VT.
and LOL @ Max voting for Errant. Classic scum vote parking.
calling that Hewho, Thor max scum team.

Tying people to Hewho, typical inexperienced bus.

Also repeated allusions to a hewho town flip which is an attempt to fake not being TMI

lets get this going. I cant see how Thor can be town. How could a guy who was so active, and who in a way almost gave the impression of wanting to lead the town, spend the whole day tunnelling one player?

VOTE: thor

.......................................................................................................................................................................................

huh.
the more i read Thor in ISO the more i'm thinking my scumread on him is wrong.

see flowchart, replace majiffy with cowbells.

[RadiantCowbells]

Guys realize that if you think that Mozamis is town you think that Mozamis is a fucking idiot whose scumhunting abilities basically consist of drooling all over the game and voting whoever gets the most spit on them. I do not think that this is the case, I think that Mozamis may not be a god tier player but I think that they are certainly more competent than this game would indicate.

But there is an asston of scum motivation in the particular ways that they are playing badly and I think that they are almost certain just scum for it.

Especially when you look at how they interact with both the flipped scum and their viable partners.

[RadiantCowbells]

Please do refrain from voting them though until I am given my rightful place at the head of the wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

1430 came out way harsher than I intended and if Mozamis is in fact town I am deeply sorry for it. If not, absolutely no offense meant either and well played, but not well enough

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not budging on my moz townread. I'm more confident in moz!town than any other read I have. RC, just for a moment look at this game from the perspecitve of moz being town – what then?

Let's make this a thing.

If I'm wrong then next time we're town and disagree on a read I'll vote whoever you want instead.
If I'm right then next time we're town and disagree on a read you vote who I want you to.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm dying tonight: I only get to influence one more lynch in this game and Mozamis is the one I'm voting for.
If you're not going to vote him you're going to replace Texcat in the lynch-before-endgame list.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's an associative read and it presumes a scumflip.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm resisting the urge to go through your past confident townreads and point out that most of them have ended up being scum

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not hard to do what he's doing x_x

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not hard for Creature to just show up to the thread and post pretty much anything.

Creature is literally doing what he's doing to establish a meta of not trying as scum so that he can be locktown when he's town. It's borderline trust telling. That does not apply to Mozamis.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean. I do fundamentally agree with NSG's assertion that this is unlike Mozamis's scumgame as far as he has played it

but I find it more likely that this is by far his best scumgame than that he is town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I also want to note that I find his play in this game distinctly different than, for example, his play in the game that you modded NSG.

[RadiantCowbells]

Y'all must expect people to be bussing all the time. I'm not used to that. Perhaps I'm just out of touch. After reading RCs wall on Moz though, I went to look to look at the last time Moz was scum and found Mini 1961 where he hardly bussed at all. His scum game there does not look much like his game here to me.

I agree that he has no scum games that look like this but I would also assert that he has no town games that look like this, not in the manner that I'm thinking of.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, curls y toes to have me go from a liar in your eyes to 'probably town' as soon as wagon momentum shifts.

wow it's almost like his shifts in trajectory in literally every single instance have massive scum motivation who would have thought it

[RadiantCowbells]

I am the nightkill tomorrow and 100% of people in this game know it. It's really not an unfair request for you to put your personal reads aside and sheep me for a day.

[RadiantCowbells]

Who knows, maybe I am actually good at this game sometimes. Maybe not, but maybe I am.

[RadiantCowbells]

Thor can you stop being so fucking emotional

[RadiantCowbells]

guess the EP vote now makes no sense
VOTE: beefster

this is the shit

guys Mozamis is an amazing scumhunter and I am willing to sheep him if necessary

[RadiantCowbells]

hey EP remember that time I told u broseidon + that other guy were scum

vote mozamis or beefster please

[RadiantCowbells]

EP you're beautiful.

[RadiantCowbells]

FUCK

[RadiantCowbells]

I hate this game

replace me


please dont

[RadiantCowbells]

see: please dont

[RadiantCowbells]

only if its mozamis or beefster

[RadiantCowbells]

Assuming Moz flips scum, go back and read the game focusing on how Moz interacts with Beef and HWS.

[RadiantCowbells]

According to my deep and detailed analysis of Thor's meta, in 100% of games where he is scum he votes Mozamis.

[RadiantCowbells]

Flubber I haven't even started playing hardball and you know it

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright it's hardball time.

CULT OF ATHENA.

If you do not vote Mozamis with me you are going to be downgraded 2 tiers to a level 6 friend.

[RadiantCowbells]

<3<3<3

[RadiantCowbells]

meuj fa;lkf';S'FDsdpogl;jSGLd:>a,S'BLVK;LX/CbvkzX' L/xvkM;.ZDAF,JB'ZDFOJBA[FBOPD

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright it's hardball time.

CULT OF ATHENA.

If you do not vote Mozamis with me you are going to be downgraded 2 tiers to a level 6 friend.

VOTE: mozamis

<3<3<3

Just kidding.

VOTE: Errantparabola

Yes. In my memory I remembered Transcend and RC both ccing each other, and Transcend going back on it. I think I assumed that both claims were fake.

If you assumed both claims were fake, why did you expect to die night one? Did you expect scum to kill you?

But you never gave the "conflicting" part of that interpretation – you never gave any reasons that you townread him. I don't see why, from your perspective, your Max townread exists at all, and combined with the fact that you were voting him just yesterday and never gave any indication of rethinking that read, I'm pretty sure you're faking your reads.

I mean this is provably untrue.

Maxous is definitely playing like lethargic/carefree town or doing a good job of emulating it so I'm conflicted

The thing is that you haven't said anything about

why

he's carefree town. Even if we were to both agree on him looking carefree, you haven't said anything about why that carefree nature is coming from town rather than from scum. Also, max has been playing in largely the same way today as yesterday, so if you're reading him as town for his playstyle today, why were you voting him yesterday?

top 10 anime betrayals

[RadiantCowbells]

I tracked Mozamis to the nightkill btw.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll vote moz after Thor checks in if that's the case.

Why do you care about Thor checking in?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah that was a lie Ether doesn't allow me to fakeclaim guilties anymore sorry.

But we're at the point where if this was a year ago I'd be fakeclaiming a guilty. this really has to happen.

[RadiantCowbells]

if anything I think the naked vote is town indicative

[RadiantCowbells]

I feel like if klick is scum and knows moz's alignment as TOWN at least he gives some justification or has more brain fart moment

[RadiantCowbells]

It's a bad sign that I'm now more worried about the fact that I just lost my leverage to actually fakeclaim a guilty if it gets desperate enough than the fact that I think that might clear klick

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay CoA let's play a game.

Say I would sheep you on any wagon today on the condition that if it flipped town you would powerlynch Mozamis tomorrow.

Who would your lynch be and why?

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay, well.

VOTE: Mozamis

If this flips scum don't bring CoA to endgame no matter what.

[RadiantCowbells]

(don't bring beefster either: you have 1 more lynch for everyone else in the game, go wild)

[RadiantCowbells]

EP do you like me like me y/n

[RadiantCowbells]

TO TEST THE LIMITS AND BREAK THROUGH

NO RIGHT NO WRONG NO RULES FOR ME

I'M FREEEEEEE

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean if you don't lynch beef tomorrow in a scummoz universe you have something esle coming

[RadiantCowbells]

It's assuredly a conversation.

I demand nothing less than complete subservience to my will.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then I get used to voting whoever NSG wants I guess.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am truly sorry if you are town Mozamis.

[RadiantCowbells]

I try to avoid throwing my weight around like this. I feel like I have to here. I really hope that I'm right. I don't have anything intellectually telling me that I'm wrong.
But that doesn't mean that it's not eating me on the inside or that I won't feel like total shit if I basically said fuck you to everyone we're doing my own thing and was wrong.
Doesn't mean that I won't feel bad about doing it even if I'm right.

I think I caught something and I see the rational reasons why everyone else fails to see it while I would and I've usually been the one right in the face of everyone else in the past and Transcend's bad so

Game's on me 100% if we lose after your mislynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

You cannot claim that the post where you said I should get lynched after your townflip was not emotional.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've already been clear I think it's moz beef

[RadiantCowbells]

If I'm right how are moz and beef ever going to get lynched without me if you can't lunch them with me

[RadiantCowbells]

Have I not earned enough RC being right tokens yet

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC - and while we're at it, go over Moz's interactions with the HeWho wagon and maybe offer me some thoughts as to how he's scum there?
I can easily see scum in his push on me.
But if we just assume derpy as an answer to that push - does any part of the HWS wagon push strike you as a bus?

yes all of it and I believe I called it out

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't want to have to be toxic and throw a fit to get Moz lynched here. I don't think any of his reaction indicates that he's town and MS systematically townreads people for throwing fits like that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry I freely admit to being too emotionally compromised to engage on the topic rationally. Hopefully I am less so later.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I stay in this game I am going to make it unpleasant for everyone trying to get what I want done. I don't want to go down that alley, it's not worth it to me anymore. Good luck town.

Replace me

[RadiantCowbells]

Unfortunately I don't think that there's a place for me to both try to be nice and try to be successful in mafia and until I make up my mind which I want I'm just going to replace out whenever the conflict happens.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think this experiment is over.

retract replace request

Sorry to everyone who expects better but I have no intentions of sacrificing win equity from this point onward to be kind and if that's a problem for either of you that's going to be on you.
Going to go to sleep and then when I get time tomorrow deal with this how I've always done it I guess.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am free of doubt I am zen.

[RadiantCowbells]

for starters what do these two games have in common with regards to aristophanes and chara

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=74699
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73079

you have a player who as scum hides behind the meta shield of being known for being bad as scum
they are both objectively scummy in both games: I wanted to lynch Ari right when I replaced in and Chara I had as lockscum in spite of meta

they became unlynchable because the people who knew them refused to take my read seriously because they thought they knew better.

people get better as scum. I agree that mozamis has a shit scum game in the past that doesn't mean he'll have a shit scum game forever.

He has managed to in a significant way match his town tone that he hasn't before but he hasn't matched the playstyle, the stupid pushes the scum motivation none of that is characteristic in his town game.
Most importantly there's a complete absence of reconsideration and thoughtfulness that's present in his town game and he's just alternating derptunnel and loud AtE.

I don't want to be unnecessarily critical of your play CoA but you have a long history of incorrectly townreading people with similar playstyles.
On top of that, I get the impression from both this game and just general past history that, possibly because of Huntress? you have little to no respect for my town play
like you even ignored my advice when we were hydraing and it ended up (possibly! I'm not sure where math would have gone otherwise) costing us the game and you still don't take what I say seriously


EP is even worse because I don't understand how in hell you would make the decision that you want to go off of your own reads as opposed to sheep me.
I am probably going to get you lynched if I can't lynch Mozamis because it seems so, so uncharacteristic of you to give as few fucks as you do about my reads.
We have a super long history of me saying who the scum are, you fucking off and ignoring me, and me being right and given how our conversations about mafia have gone since then it's kind of flabbergasting that you're ignoring me and the only real answer I can think of is that you're scum right now, so.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright Thor. Don't hammer this evening.

What things would you like me to discuss with you

[RadiantCowbells]

Its not like I suddenly think moz is scum because RC called me bad at the game. No one else is getting lynched as long as RC lives and I’m willing to just end it.

Please don't take anything personally or think that it represents anything besides me thinking that that post is what gets you from where you are to voting Mozamis.

[RadiantCowbells]

Here's another question - especially with your stance that Moz is bad scum who, in this game, has gone up a notch.
If he went up a notch it's a very uneven notch where he figured out aggressive bussing and sacrifice plays but not how to parse together a case not built on lies.

I don't think it's difficult to overly aggressively bus scumbuddies and I see several holes that read as scum to me in both those reads. Sacrifice plays aren't complicated either.
I think making a decent case on town is harder than just going caution to the wind and throwing the book at everyone everywhere.

[RadiantCowbells]

For the record I think Texcat is my backup scumpartner for Mozamis.

I'm going to stop for a second and do some reading.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll agree making a decent case can be hard, but the question naturally comes 'does he do it as town or not'.
I'll also note that being generally paranoid and attacking everyone is actually a not too shabby town tell in my experience.

I don't agree with the characterization of generally paranoid and attacking everyone, his transitions feel very scummy

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

Want some time.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think there's any disputing a confirmed tracker. If RC followed mozamis to the kill, either he's lying or mozamis is scum. We'll know for sure which one it is after we lynch mozamis.

VOTE: mozamis

I think that's where my vote was already, so I guess I'm reparking my vote.

This post may be the most ridiculous of the game. Beefster, why are you intentionally ignoring 1561???? We already know that RC was lying. Is it an effort to get Moz lynched? Or is this somehow supposed to get you town cred?

I could lynch this I guess

[RadiantCowbells]

I doubt zero scum bussed.

[RadiantCowbells]

@Thor if tex is scum the partner is almost certainly in {EP, Maxous}

[RadiantCowbells]

Add klick I guess

[RadiantCowbells]

Easiest answer to me would be Ep

[RadiantCowbells]

though I guess maxous is kind of easy too, just in a different direction

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah I would say that

most of the time

tex scum is a win if you follow up with EP and Maxous

[RadiantCowbells]

If it's EP/Tex/HWS then scum played a very safe game, never pushed on each other, never seriously questioned each other. Until EP now started putting pressure on Tex while he thought that the wagon would go elsewhere because of my derptunnel.
If it's Maxous/Tex/HWS then we're looking at a lot of cross bussing and it still seems reasonable because some of the associatives feel bad but does seem marginally less likely than just slew of lurkerscum

[RadiantCowbells]

It's worth pointing out that at no point did either Tex or HWS make any effort to get the EP wagon to go even though that was kind of free and they instead went on Beefster??? instead.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah EP tex makes the most sense if we assume Tex scum and I REALLY REALLY dislike 1649 to the point of my initial impression being the reaction is so bad that it's likely SvS

[RadiantCowbells]

If I never play with CoA again I never have to be her vote bitch if I'm wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is town or go smurf yourself
Flubber is town
Beefster is very likely town
Mozamis probtown I guess
CoA is still probtown (not 100%sies, will get there)
don't have a lot of reason but think Maxous town

EP ??? do content
Thor meh. I originally read him town.

that leaves Klick and Texcat, both of whom have kind of bad jumps at the end of the wagon and make sense as partners

maybe this was right

[RadiantCowbells]

CoA, what do you think about Tex/EP or Tex/Maxous?

[RadiantCowbells]

When you say bad thought does that mean you like playing with me?

[RadiantCowbells]

think scum just wins this game. It doesn't seem plausible that all remaining scum is in {Maxous / tex / Klick / moz} just from basic scumteam theory. I'm also really surprised that RC scumreads me, the distance from my scumgame here is extremely easy to identify

why did you suddenly get super demoralized when I expressed support for the same lynch that you did and stopped voting someone you thought was town?

[RadiantCowbells]

I am not scumreading Klick

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright we have 2 days left.
I actually have a lot of time early tomorrow so I'll get on this.

Wasn't Texcat a counter-wagon to HWS anyway?
Not sure it's the best lynch even from a gaming point of view unless you have something REALLY solid

Weren't you leading on them before cutie?

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually think it's Tex/Maxous rn

[RadiantCowbells]

I will still submit to CoA's voting in our next game even though arguably I shouldn't have to since I don't think her EP read is right either
obviously if it is I would anyway

VOTE: Texcat

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

Okay my reads have solidified enough: let's actually do some talking but I want this to be the lynch today.

Anyone has any questions for me fire away

[RadiantCowbells]

My main reason for liking the tex wagon over the moz wagon at this point is that I think tex will basically always be a lynch option until she's finally lynched. I think moz has potential to not be a lynch option at some point.

Klick, can I get a full readslist?

Who do you think is most likely to be scum as opposed to that?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hugs

[RadiantCowbells]

Perfect town win

Except trans can't vig

[RadiantCowbells]

Tesxx were you reading my large theme

[RadiantCowbells]

When you said serial killer win: I trolled my game and said Yume the vig was a SK

Also transcend u vigged my single higher TR lol

Although yeah in fairness CoA had me by the end to the point I'm super glad I was the mandatory nightkill so

Sorry mozamis, well played Thor on days 1 and 2

[RadiantCowbells]

My vig shot was contingent on tex being town so i shot someone in the counter wagon.

Gl getting 11/13 vigs on scum.with reads like THAT motherfucker

[RadiantCowbells]

Aldo I hate you Athena