Mini Normal 1985 No Spoilers (END)

[Chara]

hello everyone. i'd hoped to say hello and do some work earlier, but i need to sleep now and ran out of time.
Gamma gets an easy townread off this page alone. we'll see if it sticks.

[Chara]

HOLY CRAP THIS READS SCUMMY AS CRUD TO ME.

do you think scum Transcend says he fakeclaimed to get Hawk lynched?
:>

[Chara]

oh, never mind. i should really read fully before posting, he already said it wasn't real as expected, quoted in the same damn post. that's embarrassing. on the bright side it was obvious what Transcend was attempting before he said so, but now my question is pointless.
Hawk's town.

pedit: oh, seems it had a point after all.

[Chara]

This was a good, but risky move on Frogger's part. It not only confirms him as town, but allows us another confirm as well on Hawk.

why do you think this? a not vanilla result doesn't say too much about Hawk's alignment if he's non goon scum, though this has been said already.
that aside, why is Frogger confirmed to you?

[Chara]

1) scum vanilla cops exist and are used to find power roles.
2) this is true, but town miller and scum power role look the same, so is it useful?
3) how do we know he's lying, keeping 1 in mind? not to mention if he

is

lying about the ability anyway, Hawk publicly claimed miller so scum Frogger could make the reasonable assumption he isn't lying and claim the result is "not vanilla".

[Chara]

1) I did not know that. But it seems weird that it would be a DayScumNeo.
2) Which is more likely, town miller or scum power roll (legit question, not rhetorical. That would for sure influence my decision.)
3) If he's lying, frogger is going to want to get hawk confirmed as scum, because that means town has "found" one scum and has a guaranteed lynch, or in this case mislynch. So either way we lynch hawk and get info. If hawk flips tv, we know frogger is town. if hawk flips a power role, we know frogger was lying and is probably scum.

1) i'm aware you didn't know. :> though he claimed vanilla cop, not neopolitan.
2) i don't believe either is more likely in the case of frogger claiming a "not vanilla" result.
3) Hawk won't flip VT now that he's claimed miller. if he's a VT and fakeclaimed miller i don't know what to say, but it isn't good, haha. you're forgetting the case where scum frogger says the correct result, and this view is rather simplistic. and you don't know the result yet, so one can't really make decisions about Frogger's alignment based on the flip of Hawk.

James could be town, this appears to be consistent inexperience rather than a faked stance, especially point 3. maybe i'm being hasty, but that's the sense i'm getting.

[Chara]

He did that last game as scum

can you point to it? that would help me.

[Chara]

Am I missing anything? If so please enlighten me. I don't see how you guys can reasonably confirm anything from Frogs results here and talking about it in the way you are feels like you're trying to push an agenda or idea forward to idk what gain yet.

yes, you're missing something. my entire point is that nothing is confirmed from Frogger's result (unless it's a vanilla) and that i'm townreading you.

[Chara]

I usually always fos chara and end up being wrong so i wanna be careful

i can't remember a game with you besides Alisae's most recent. remind me?

[Chara]

i was hoping for posts, but if it's a short ISO i won't complain.
also, yes, i don't get mislynched.

[Chara]

Why did you say point 2 was true?? Youre right I did misinterpret you slightly but you did agree with James that it was allows you to confirm I'm either a scum power role or not, if you are townreading me then you believe my Miller claim and wouldn't see that as confirming me as a scum power role or not, more simply you would have just said your second statement.

i conceded it was true what Frogger's result could confirm, in the case of a proven not vanilla result meaning you are a town miller or a scum PR. he was technically correct. i was reminding him that a town miller would give the same result as the scum PR and thus Frogger's hypothetical result does not confirm anything.

i questioned James as i was concerned by his apparent total belief in Frogger's claim, among other things.

all of that concrete mechanical nonsense is separate from "i

think

Hawk is a genuine miller".

[Chara]

If he's telling the truth we probably have confirmed town, and we can look at day 1 again and see how others reacted to him and potentially find scum.

James, what i am trying to tell you is Frogger telling the truth does not make him confirmed town. Mafia aren't obligated to lie at every turn. he could be a real scum vanilla cop or scum savvy (i use this term loosely) enough to fakeclaim it knowing Hawk is town and a real miller.

i'm too wordy, but my point is your thinking on this is too simplistic. i would be incredibly surprised if Frogger's scum tactic here was to make a fakeclaim that would prove him scum after Hawk was mislynched.

Mulch, i checked out that game with scum James you mentioned. i still like my townlean there.

[Chara]

As in he's pree obv town come on i was town reading you

who's this referring to?

[Chara]

VOTE: chara

Defending James is horseshit especially on meta and they have spent 99% of their posts mechanical talking

i'm not defending him on meta. you're the one calling him scum based on meta, so i looked. if you see specific similarities between the two games, try pointing them out to me. i'm townreading him from this game.

[Chara]

Yes

His town and scum game are identical and bad

Everything he does is NAI

?
if this is the case, then why did you bring up meta in the first place?

[Chara]

I don't think mulch called him scum on meta.

Point me to where if he did.

i see from the last post i quoted that Mulch wasn't calling him scum from meta, but saying his play is NAI in general. Mulch brought up James's meta in response to my townread, which is why i thought that initially.
pedit: yes, i got that.

[Chara]

VOTE: chara

Defending James is horseshit especially on meta and they have spent 99% of their posts mechanical talking

i'm not defending him on meta. you're the one calling him scum based on meta, so i looked. if you see specific similarities between the two games, try pointing them out to me. i'm townreading him from this game.

How can you possibly be townreading James this game

And please show me the differences because they look identical

the tone is completely different. James in the game you showed me was over-exaggerating a lot in newbscum fashion.

[Chara]

You told me that his faking newness and genuineness while being bad was towny.

I said that’s not towny, he does that as scum too.

What’s hard to understand?

i was obviously not reading it as fake. and yes, i understand that you're seeing it as NAI.

[Chara]

They are over exaggerating this game too

i don't feel like spending the rest of this day defending a townlean, and i doubt there's any more productive conversation to be had on this particular topic. i don't agree with you.

[Chara]

Do you normally spend 76% or posts talking about mechanical stuff?

when i see someone making mechanical points that are wrong, certainly.

[Chara]

please call Transcend any other nickname. :>

[Chara]

Hawk is a shit lynch

[Chara]

VOTE: Smocaine
i have to love the Yankee wagon. not because i think he's scum, but still.
Flavor/Smocaine are both at the bottom of my list. is Flavor usually this unbearably awkward?

[Chara]

We all thought he was sus at daystart. He hasn't done anything but doubledown on his tunnel of me since then. The writing is on the wall friend.

"we all thought" = my stance is defensible because other players agree with me, so you should too.

[Chara]

Give a reason for Trans that isn't that "slip". Trust me, the reason is there. Read Chara's iso and tell me what you think of it.

i'd also like a read on me. :>
this post bothered me the first time i saw it, but let's see what comes out of it now.

[Chara]

Chara yes!
what's your read on me?

[Chara]

^^^
well, that was interesting.

[Chara]

I was thinking town, but you came I don't know about how you came at me sideways here.

i don't love your Yankee wagon. and you've made a few awkward posts this game yourself. your entrance was what got my attention immediately (clarification in one's second post to save face is never a good look), and i pointed out the other.

i think at least part of my read was based on a misunderstanding, but maybe we could clear that up and you can convince me you're town.

Give a reason for Trans that isn't that "slip". Trust me, the reason is there. Read Chara's iso and tell me what you think of it.

so you're telling James to trust you that there's a reason to scumread Transcend, but you want James to find it himself, right? what were you trying to get from James in this post? i assume you mention me because i wasn't in James's readlist, but Hawk and Frogger were also absent.
the Transcend comment is more my concern, however.

[Chara]

Reasons for scumreading him were given earlier. I was pointing out that the naked votes he called out weren't baseless.

ah, that isn't how i read it. i'll give your case another look.

[Chara]

thanks Transcend! i think everyone already got that.

of course, i don't think Yankee is flipping scum,

but

i'm unopposed to a lynch so juicy and hope it flips scum anyway. it's a minor townpoint in James's favour if Yankee flips town, though.

[Chara]

Give a reason for Trans that isn't that "slip". Trust me, the reason is there. Read Chara's iso and tell me what you think of it.

so you're telling James to trust you that there's a reason to scumread Transcend, but you want James to find it himself, right? what were you trying to get from James in this post? i assume you mention me because i wasn't in James's readlist, but Hawk and Frogger were also absent.
the Transcend comment is more my concern, however.

I wanted to see if James still sr Trans and/or be seeing what I'm seeing with regards to him if he discarded that crappy slip. I'm pretty sure he had never talked about you before that, and you are a slot I was less sure about than the other two. I also didn't notice Hawk and Frog weren't on the list. I guess you were just on my mind.

are you going to explain what you're seeing with Transcend after James answers you? or have you explained already and i'm just blind.

(i almost unvoted for this post alone because i'm unbearably easy to flatter, but you won't get me

that

easily. )

[Chara]

actually, you're right. i rescind my conditional townpoints.
VOTE: James
will someone answer me about Flavor? i think that's my best scumread.

[Chara]

sorry to hear that, Locke. no worries, i hope you're alright.
hello, antihero.

[Chara]

tell me about your vote.

James, Smocaine was saying you are not scum. haha.

[Chara]

Why did Chara backtrack on their read on James?

i really do love referring to changing a read as a "backtrack". why aren't you asking me this question, and instead asking others? it's the definition of shade. :>
found the second scum?

[Chara]

I’m not trying to shade, I was actually wondering what the reason was.

I found it. You went back and changed it. That’s fine. I wasn’t legit just curious because I missed something.

huh, i actually was not expecting this answer.

but what is it that you found? you were curious about my read change, and missed a post on it?

[Chara]

^scum...no reason to be invested less in this game than another.

this is silly.

pedit: why are you townreading this, Transcend?

[Chara]

let's watch the discussion of ongoing games? by which i mean, stop alluding to them entirely.

[Chara]

Why are you scumreading me? He's totally ignoring this game for no apparent good reason. And when he does post he says stupid stuff like "you're ignorant town" and "I'm going to replace out".

unless you have convincing meta that tells me Flavor doesn't like playing scum, avoiding a game in particular is not AI. there are reasons to dislike a game environment, pushing it as just scum is bad and your spins on it aren't helping.

you two obviously have an issue that goes beyond this game, which doesn't help things.

[Chara]

I imagine around this exchange you went back and reconsidered things.

thank you for the answer.

[Chara]

no need for the meta, Flavor, but thank you. i didn't really believe Two yad any.

i always consider the possibility i'm wrong, but that's neither here nor there. if it helps, my read on you has improved some.

[Chara]

let's watch the discussion of ongoing games? by which i mean, stop alluding to them entirely.

It's okay to discuss activity in other games as long as you are not discussing specific games. FL is the one that mentioned my presence in other games which crosses the line.

i wasn't talking to you. :>

[Chara]

shhhhh, sh sh sh.
the day can't end yet, Smocaine needs to talk about his read on you.

[Chara]

i've never seen what a scum Creature looks like.

[Chara]

But anyways I'm probably wrong

VOTE: yankee

town.

[Chara]

Why is this a towntell for you? This vote was again made with no context and in response to me putting up a decent fight against Transcend. He has shown no scum reads or scumhunting this game whatsoever. A random, unexplained vote should not be enough to tell you he's town; in fact, walking backward on his super-aggressive, all-out attack on my slot should, if anything, be another sign that he's scum.

it's not the vote on you, it's the position on James.
speaking of, forgot to:
UNVOTE:

Gamma: i'm efforting?

[Chara]

ya know... semantics argument w flavor leaf aside...

i was also kinda surprised you flipped on james when you did

his posting earlier was pretty bad. but i agree with Transcend about the genuineness of his frustration and his continued arguments. i'm willing to overlook awkward posts when posts like that exist.

[Chara]

why does scum!Brafin risk losing my little support to leave the option of voting me (a lynch that will never happen today) still on the table? Checkmate

i didn't really listen before but i like this for James town, some. i'm disappointed that i can't keep pushing Smocaine like i have been but i may have been mistaken in my initial suspicion.
i'm ambivalent to Yankee wagon.

[Chara]

i was going to say i don't think i've been trying all that much, but i guess i have been. so never mind. :>

[Chara]

family emergency. expect me tomorrow. not replacing.

[Chara]

VOTE: Gamma
ok, where were we.

[Chara]

Gamma: took a glance at the votecount, felt good. i think if you're town (you as in Gamma, as opposed to any old player) i'll figure it out by running you up. if you're not, you can be lynched.
why's Fitz scum?

why does it "feel weird"?

[Chara]

not even a single cross-out list from Creature. i'm disappointed.

[Chara]

Hey sorry guys, kinda just lost interest in this game. I'll try and be better.

are you actually a mafia who lost interest and is coasting on a fake miller claim?

mafia who feels safe in a game doesn't tend to lose interest. it sure does happen to town, however!

Anti: i don't know

why

it's better to hunt the partners of caught scum, either. Creature isn't going to give anything away now. unless he's normally loose-lipped even when caught?

pedit: this game has specific rules for day abilities, and it's not non-normal, so setup-speccing out a possibility doesn't make much sense to me.

[Chara]

He's still not a day vanilla cop

I eat my hat if he is

we do agree on something!
but Hawk is still town. i am, however, more confident in Transcend town.

[Chara]

Only reason he's not getting smashed is that one post

Other than that he's a walking red role pm in my eyes

tell me about this?

[Chara]

does that logic really make sense with Creature scum? if anything, it's Gamma trying to get some towncred back for shoving the lynch onto his caught partner instead.
or maybe you aren't scumreading Creature. either way.

Gamma: why were you voting fitz in the first place?

[Chara]

alright, no need to yell, i'm caught up. :>

[Chara]

^^^i would love to hear why, Two. for once, he's a good dog.

[Chara]

Fuck you

My vote doesn't shift until you don't act like a complete fucking bitch as you are right now.

why do you have to make posts like this after i call you a good dog...?
if you think's he's scum, don't be an asshole if you think he's playing scummy.

[Chara]

Well i think he's scum But if he wants any chance at not getting lynched by me, I'm giving him the way to find success.

i get that, but you can make a point and insult the play and not the player, is all i'm saying. not a big deal. :>

anyway. i'm very lazily working off of Gamma/Creature scum now. i will actually read, but i'm making muffins first.

[Chara]

it's chocolate muffins, you animal.

[Chara]

Because scumTranscend townGamma makes more sense than TownTranscend ScumGamma. I've seen Transcend fakeclaim as town but it was extremely anti-town play and I don't think he would do it again as a rule unless he is playing against his win condition.

Transcend doesn't learn from his mistakes, what

are

you talking about?
the fakeclaims are null, especially when they're as non-serious as these ones.

[Chara]

i mean, the second one was so obviously a joke i don't know why you quoted it.

[Chara]

It seems like he's looking for attention, which is anti-town.

who cares?
i don't care what Transcend does or whether it's anti-town. i care if it's town or scum. why is getting attention something scum want to do? this should be null.

[Chara]

why are you confident he's town?

[Chara]

are you ever not online

[Chara]

also, i don't have a read there. i don't remember him doing anything except things i've agreed with in a way i don't agree with. but if you have a good reason he's town and i can put him aside, i'm interested.

[Chara]

His demeanor and approach towards things albeit very wrong all appear genuine.

ok, this tracks. i agree to a point but i'm not confident.

[Chara]

also, i don't have a read there. i don't remember him doing anything except things i've agreed with in a way i don't agree with. but if you have a good reason he's town and i can put him aside, i'm interested.

things i have not agreed with in a way i don't agree with. it should say

[Chara]

Transcend is obviously shitposting. A lot, which makes me even more sure he's scum. He's contributed nothing to town this game, something I've said repeatedly, and keeps deathtunneling me, trying to get me lynched.

he's trying to lynch Gamma now.
shitposting is NAI.
you're looking at this too simply, i think. if you're town, which i lean towards.

[Chara]

Frogger is now on my scummy list, because I'm starting to think he faked that Neo Cop claim. (Same thing for those who don't know, a vanilla cop == Neapolitan, just different names for the same role. VT and basic scum turn up as vanilla, and others turn up as not vanilla.)

they are not the same role. you described Vanilla Cop.
Neapolitan specifically looks for vanilla townies. it gets a negative on PRs and scum.

[Chara]

like i'm not really sure why you wanted my feedback on

12 NAI creature posts

Ok this might be town creature

I lean towned his early posts

before he went absent.

@Transcend....what about Creature's early posts were you townreading?

[Chara]

you were not.
happy scumday! :>

[Chara]

asking how to be townread in the middle of a game isn't a question that deserves repetition if not answered.

[Chara]

or should be asked at all outside of a newbie.

[Chara]

what's the count at? i want to vote Smocaine.

[Chara]

i'll sheep you tomorrow, Transcend.
VOTE: Smocaine

[Chara]

Gamma scum can be lynched another day.

pedit: if you have an argument for obvtown Smocaine i'll hear it.

[Chara]

i guess frogger because i like to be contrary.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
congratulations on dying Transcend.

[Chara]

so scum killed the aggressive town because his reads were wrong? that's interesting. if they wanted you mislynched they really just needed to let him run about.

(and no, i'm not voting Gamma just because Transcend died, but Gamma's narrative is just too interesting not to challenge)

[Chara]

and he died because he was obvious town. no other reason.

[Chara]

"Transcend was killed because he was scumreading me, and scum wanted to frame me".
is the narrative.

[Chara]

Okay, why vote me

before

I state my narrative though???
bullshit noted, mein friendo

pffft.
it's not my fault you decided to post more scummy things after i'd voted you, Gamma.

[Chara]

Guys

Guys

It's going to be ok

We have a guilty

i don't feel like not playing because there's possibly a guilty. that sucks.

[Chara]

Well you stated you'd sheep Transcend today, figured you were following through with that

was sort of a joke. i voted you as a way to get into the game but your play yesterday and your interpretation of Transcend's death in particular read disingenuous, so i like where my vote is.

Frogger: methinks the frog doth protest too much.

speaking of claims, to be clear, was your Vanilla Cop yesterday legitimate, Frogger?

[Chara]

Guys

Guys

It's going to be ok

We have a guilty

i don't feel like not playing because there's possibly a guilty. that sucks.

[Chara]

i buy the vanilla cop, but i don't know if i buy his alignment.

Frogger, could you self-meta yourself to elaborate on that? it's something i've thought to myself as well.

[Chara]

by the way, Hawk's still town. sorry Transcend. :>

[Chara]

i appreciate it. i'll have a look when i get the chance. :>

[Chara]

FWIW if I was scum I would have killed anti

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

because anti was obvtown to me on D1 and they were paranoid of me and I don't think scum me could fake out anti

frogger's competent and it's pretty refreshing so i hope he's town? but i have yet to really townread anything he says so disappointing

these are things town think about.

Frogger/Creature/mysterious third guilty that is hopefully not Frogger so the game is won?

or Gamma/Creature/Frogger.

[Chara]

(have not looked at Frogger's meta yet.)

[Chara]

apologies, was sarcasm.

[Chara]

(have not looked at Frogger's meta

yet

.)

[Chara]

then look at it


don't just assume what I said only comes from scum

when i see scummy play i note it. if, when i have time and am not sitting in a lecture as i am now, your meta discounts this as a scumtell, i'll discount it. only then.

[Chara]

thanks for the unhelpful "i'm town" posting. i said i was going to look for what you talked about in your meta, and i will. if you want to do something, quote town frogger talking about hypothetical scum kill positioning and back up your assertions it's NAI for you.

[Chara]

cool.
i think you were thinking about it becuse you're scum.
town frogger thinks about it too, apparently, but you

literally

have only your word this is so.

the only thing mildly towny about this is your offence taken at my scumread. i will surely take that into account when i check up on you. :>

pedit: i also self-meta and don't lie. i've done it as scum. i don't think Frogger's lying.

[Chara]

@Chara - what are your thoughts on you being guiltied? It seems as if you are pushing he conversation a bit elsewhere to me.

haha.

[Chara]

i'm sure that's true, Frogger.

look, if you're town. calm down. i'll figure it out.
right now i don't think you are, but if the difference is as obvious as you say, righting myself shouldn't be difficult, right?

pedit: can we stop talking about self-meta theory now?

i can tell you i can't play like this as scum. it's true.
am i conftown now?
no. that's dumb.

[Chara]

I would have killed Two and played a “two was targeting me and was seen as town by most people. Someone killed him to frame me!” card if you want some more WIFOM.

it's funny because Gamma.

[Chara]

Alright, well I apologize for presupposing intent. I'm stupid and an ass.

i can't tell if you're being facetious, but in the case you're not, you really have nothing to apologize for.

[Chara]

i have little to say that wouldn't be better served tomorrow. this works. good job, anti.
honestly, now i'm even more suspicious of Frogger's claim, but i'll go over his meta over night.

[Chara]

hahahaha.

[Chara]

that would have been great, honestly.
but, better that it went this way!

pedit: i have nothing more to say, i don't know about the rest of you.

[Chara]

Creature you got anything else for us, or are you just going to lurk the rest of the game out?

creature's town

convince me.

[Chara]

half of that case is assuming Yankee was crumbing traitor. we know that's not the case, so antihero's assumption there wasn't correct.
and what does any of that have to do with Creature aside from anti saying Creature is town? i don't see the why.

[Chara]

and basically just assumes Creature is town because fitz is scum and said he wouldn't bus.

and even if fitz is scum and hasn't bussed, he hasn't actually voted Creature. saying you'd vote your partner isn't bussing.

pedit: ah, i see.

[Chara]

sure, alright. sort of dumb of me not to consider it that way, honestly.

pedit: haha. incorrect.
by the way, is VT your final claim?

peditx2: i did!

[Chara]

Chara I'm interested in your meta dive results of me

i'm going to sleep, but as you're online:
1) you're right about how scum frogger appears different and what you explained
2) your claim was so convenient, and the way you made it, then changed it, was a large part of my scumread on you because it all didn't look real
3) if your intent was to save Hawk from the lynch, why not just claim day rolecop instead of day vanilla cop? leaving open the option of scum PR Hawk was another reason the entire charade seemed pointless from a town vanilla cop frogger perspective

[Chara]

i meant your initial claim not including the odd-day modifier. i'd wondered if you did that to avoid having to give a report on a townie whose role you didn't know. by the time i'd considered what you were planning to do on day 3, it was night and you'd retracted your claim entirely.

pedit: i think you're town already, my post was intended to explain my scumread to some extent.

[Chara]

Frogger: i still think it's Creature. if not him then Two could be last scum. Gamma is an outside shot if the intent of the setup was to allow the scum to neighbourize their traitor, but i don't know how i feel about scum Gamma now considering scum fitz seems an eventuality.
and Frogger isn't scum, not with fitz scum.

[Chara]

Also of note Flavor telling Gamma to go ahead and Neighborize almost feels like it was solely setup for this play Flavor made today as he used me to vouch that Gamma wanted to make the Gambit. Not sure how that reflects on Flavor yet...

that reminds me of Flavor claiming he had information about the setup. i'm not telling him to divulge it, but is it bad i'm townreading him saying so?

Hawk's still town, though. very.

[Chara]

that's incredibly strong though

there's zero shot gamma is scum here.

i don't like to discount any possibilities, is all. but considering Gamma vs. fitz it's definitely unlikely they're scum together.

[Chara]

lol he already divulged it

that gamma was neighborizer

you can tell i'm sleepy.

[Chara]

as an aside -- Chara you're fun to play mafia with

really? i'm surprised to hear that, though not unpleasantly so, considering how much we've been disagreeing.

[Chara]

night.

[Chara]

Do we know mafia knew there was a traitor?

Has anyone looked at Mulch's iso for hints? Seeing as he DID know who the mafia were?

yes, it's a normal game.

[Chara]

ah, i was under the impression normal guidelines meant scum know to look for their traitor.
is that not correct?

[Chara]

huh, perhaps i was looking at outdated info.
interested to know Frogger's thoughts on the matter, though.

Mulch definitely knew his partners, but it's possible it remains to be seen if the scum knew there was a traitor. usually, two scum in a normal indicates that or an SK, so the scum should have at least been open to the possibility if they weren't new. (or multiball, but gross)

i think my favourite fitz attempt at not being lynched is to think that Mulch is bad enough at scum to signal in the thread by subtly announcing his full scumteam.

[Chara]

VOTE: Frogger

Fuck this idiot-ass town

please don't. fitz is being lynched. Hawk's argument was for fitz scum.

[Chara]

VOTE: fitz

[Chara]

please stop posting, Frogger. he's lynched.

[Chara]

Chara plays a good game and is a logical poster. I'm my mind I think he would come across as town regardless of whether he was scum or not. Question for Chara....are you considered good or bad as scum?

i'm pretty bad at scum. a lot of people think i'm good at scum because i'm logical town, but it isn't the case. Mulch was right when he said i was an easy read. :>

[Chara]

Gamma Emerald
Hawk
Sheepsaysmeep

Flavor Leaf
Creature

VOTE: Creature

[Chara]

Gamma Emerald
Hawk
TwoInAMillion
Sheepsaysmeep

Flavor Leaf
Creature

fixed.

[Chara]

Two shouldn't be lynched today, not much interesting there. i want to see Creature flip, i shouldn't have let Frogger push fitz when Creature is obvious scum and has been all game. Hawk's town. Gamma actually should not be that high, i need to see who he neighbourized. James slot is probably town.

[Chara]

@Srceenplay: would you be able to put role/alignment flips in the OP?

Updated

i know what they are, i just find it easier to keep track of when thinking.

pedit: no kidding. wish i could give you townpoints for that.

[Chara]

honestly it's Creature and one of Gamma/Flavor, ignore my dumb list. but Gamma is dependent on setup and i'm not really sure if he's scum anyway, just townread the others. likely just Flavor/Creature.

either way, we lynch scum Creature today, giving us one more mislynch before 3p lylo. game should be won with that.

[Chara]

we should massclaim the day before lylo. aka, tomorrow. no need to massclaim today when Creature is flipping scum.
i'll get back to you on Flavor, if you don't mind.

who do you suspect, Gamma?

[Chara]

scum roleblocker, town cop, town miller and neighbourizer.

[Chara]

well i'm feeling energized about this game for whatever reason, so let me see what i can tell you about my thoughts on Flavor, and the rest of the game.
why don't you think i'm scum?

[Chara]

Mulch soft-defended Creature early on. keep in mind i'm not saying this makes Creature scum, Creature is scum all by himself but it does say something about Mulch's treatment of his scumbuddies this game.

Mulch also choosing to vote me for a short period of time before going back to James is not something i think Mulch would do were James his partner. initially i thought it meant James could be his partner, because Mulch used my James read to vote me, but now i'm not so sure. thoughts?

[Chara]

btw regardless of the guilty James Brafin is probably scum because he's shading the guy with the guilty so hard
VOTE: James Brafin
Because might as well

i actually don't get this at all, Gamma. why does scum shade the guilty that we'll surely lynch once revealed? it seems a rather simplistic conclusion, and James gains little, especially after the guilty flips. to me it was more indicative of someone who didn't think the guilty was real, while scum, knowing anti was town, would then know the guilty is likely real. unless James was pretending to be uninformed, if that's what you were implying.

i know i said no massclaim, but will you claim who you neighbourized last night and why?

[Chara]

i think i remember Mulch buddying Two somewhere, but i can't find it in his ISO. i'll do it when i'm on my laptop, unless someone knows what i mean.

[Chara]

i feel like every time Gamma has talked about his read on me it's been for a different reason. 881 my efforting is towny, right now it's that he likes the direction of my thoughts. somewhere in between that he agreed i was moonlogicky as scum. could you be more specific?
(and remind me where you've seen my scumgame? i'm curious)

pedit: oh, thank you.
what were you skeeved out by, sorry? you agree James is more likely town because he disappeared?

[Chara]

they don't conflict, i just wanted more detail. which you have provided, thank you.
we have three lynches left til game over, and two scum. i think Creature > Flavor > Gamma gets us the win at that time, but i've barely begun. i probably die tonight so i want to do something before i'm out.

[Chara]

^^^ i've used this in the past and it has constantly failed me. though i agree with your conclusion, if not your methodology.
reads on the rest of the game?

[Chara]

Hawk is the third scum most likely.

but it could be sheep.

Hawk isn't the third scum. he's very towny.
why aren't you considering Creature scum?

[Chara]

So I'm really bad at this game and feel like I probably ruined d1 for town.

I'm Miller.

My bad that I waited till 200 posts to claim. I've never played with this role but doing research I think this is what I probably should have done yesterday.

Hawk needs to be lynched. You don't claim miller after you're being wagoned.

Yeah I realized that this morning. Better to just get it out of the way. I mean if I got to a close lynch and then claimed it wouldn't have helped.

Sorry guys shoulda just claimed from the start.

scum doesn't claim like this.
arbitrary rules like "not claiming miller after being wagoned" don't apply when not claiming immediately was a mistake to begin with. not to mention, if Hawk wanted the wagon to dissipate, or even to draw a town PR claim, he would have picked basically anything else.

[Chara]

perhaps i didn't find it as such because i already thought he was town. either way.

[Chara]

Mulch interactions (not just the simple fact if James was scum Mulch was bussing, because scum Mulch absolutely busses) point me towards town James as i explained. i also just considered him towny in general and while i began to doubt that, going back to what i townread him for initially, i still think it holds. Mulch was the one who attacked me my reasoning there, too.

[Chara]

so then why didn't Mulch put you two down as null reads?

[Chara]

haha. i see.
because that's definitely how Mulch was going for lynches this game, looking at his ISO. where'd you pull that one from, exactly?

why are you explaining to me why i'm scum by re-iterating things already in your neighbourhood? is it because you think it makes you seem more credible that you're consistent?

pedit: no need, but your kindness is appreciated. let's just lynch Creature. i can obvtown in LyLo if scum decides to allow me to live that long.

[Chara]

chara is town from this sod

can i have like a list of claims

antihero is a dead cop.
Gamma is a confirmed neighbourizer. his hood is Flavor, Two, and... i am blanking on someone.
Hawk's claimed miller.
Mulch is dead traitor roleblocker.

[Chara]

Antihero, can i vote Chara now?

Chara, fitz, Two is probably the scum team. Transcend was the only other scum read by Two, so now he just gets to focus on me, and now Fitz is pairing up with that line of thought.

so why was Creature town here?

[Chara]

where exactly did this major scumread on me develop, Flavor? if you had me, fitz, and Two as the scumteam over Creature.
i saw Two was town for you as of 1616, why do you think that?

[Chara]

@Srceenplay: thank you. <3

the tldr of Flavor is his reads are too convenient, if that wasn't clear.

[Chara]

when i asked why Creature wasn't in your (Chara, fitz, Two) scumteam, you said it was because you were scumreading Two. that isn't PoE, and that's what i wanted an answer on.
when did Two go from being a scumread to being stubborn town?

[Chara]

right, thank you.

[Chara]

not sure what you mean, Gamma. do you mean, make sure it's seen he's scumreading Creature so it doesn't make him look bad after Creature's scumflip?

[Chara]

Why wouldn't Flavor suspect Creature with everyone else if he were scum is my question.

i see a lot of rhetoric from Flavor on why he has to be town, and nothing that's convincing me his reads are genuine. the focus on his own image this game makes me think he's just cultivating it.

pedit: i'm not sure. did Flavor bring this up himself in your hood, or is this something you came up with independently?

[Chara]

You are misrepping with that and trying to force holes.

i'm misrepresenting you?
i'm misrepresenting your hood-only information that i hadn't seen?
rich.

[Chara]

Literally none of my prior reads matter. I reevaluate my reads every day with more info in the game.

i am not scumreading you for inconsistency.

town should be able to explain why they held a read at a given time. i asked why Creature wasn't a scumread for you, you said because Two was scum. now you say Two wasn't really a scumread for you, you were just exaggerating it. fine, but then why wasn't Creature a scumread?

your reason for why i'm a scumread

now

is PoE, which doesn't answer why i was a scumread

then

.

[Chara]

I said everything right here, so you neighborhood only comment is crap. I basically say everything in this thread that I say in the neighborhood anyways.

Only thing I’ve stated in the neighborhood that is t here was asking Two a question about Creature. I believe everything else stated in neighborhood has been in thread.

i am asking you about your Two scumread at the time of your "can i lynch Chara" post.

[Chara]

My own question.

then i'm not sure. it could be an error as scum, it could mean he's town who really didn't think Creature was scum. what would make that easier to know is if he would answer about his reads at the time.

[Chara]

Don’t remember. That was a long time ago, and I wasn’t too invested in this game.

As scum, I’d be able to answer that in an instant. Scum is easier to explain your reads than it is when you are town, so I don’t understand this process you’re going through.

scum are faking their reads, town are not. explaining a genuine read is the

easiest

thing to do in a mafia game, even if that answer is 'gut', or 'i don't remember'. you keep talking about how you'd do things differently as scum, which tells me nothing but that you're aware of your scum meta.

pedit: if you don't remember why you weren't scumreading Creature or why you said you were scumreading Two, then i'm damn well allowed to not remember whatever

you

said about Two at some point earlier in the game.

[Chara]

ok, i actually got pissed off for a moment. and here i was worried i'd lost that spark.
some townpoints for Flavor. i've yet to get angry arguing with scum. let's see if i'm wrong anywhere.

[Chara]

I disagree with this. Ive been told my strongest part of my scum game isn’t my genuineness. I personally feel it’s easier to have a legit read as scum than town. It’s why when I’m scum I can push through and make sense of things that should be tin foil theory.

the answer is I don’t remember. I’ve already said that.

i believe you on this. and i know you gave your answer. i said that because i didn't like you saying what you

would

do as scum.
but, anyway, this is the part where i take a break and go have some tea. i meant what i said about only getting heated when talking to town.

pedit: not sure if there's a typo in your last post, but town Chara knows it's wrong and not, in fact, a good find, so i'm not sure what you mean.

[Chara]

i probably did. remind me? past Chara is better at mafia.

[Chara]

i'm not faulting you for it, though.
i just mean i'm not going to say "hey, good find" on something that says i'm scum. i'm pretty neutral to it. like, it makes sense? it just isn't right.
i

am

an easy read, along with Creature. Mulch apparently thought he could push me by saying i'm not obvtown when i should be.

pedit: thanks.

[Chara]

*Hawk: definitely town.
*Two: possibly town. not much to see here, honestly.
Gamma: i have my doubts. i don't think the reasons for townreading him are good, including Frog's.
Flavor: i thought he was scummy but after our talk i don't know.
sheep: i'm just townreading him.
Creature: hopefully scum!

[Chara]

* = reads i'm more sure on. meant to write probably town for Two, not possibly.

[Chara]

Chara why is Gamma scum? What's wrong with the reasoning. Who Neighborizes and opens with wanna Mason Gambit as scum?

i've seen scum neighbourizers do this. it's not really that strange. what exactly is the risk as scum?

[Chara]

Why on sheep

James was towny, sheep has so far been mildly towny, and there's what i noticed about Mulch. i'll go over it tomorrow if i'm alive.

pedit: <3

[Chara]

sorry, nope.

[Chara]

i mean, i could. it's just that it's basically what i already said? i just don't feel like towncasing him now considering it's Twilight and discussing why players are town when the lynch is already decided is incredibly pointless.

[Chara]

the reason for a scum neighbourizer to hit their teammate is because it's a good distancing move. for exactly the reasoning you're using.

[Chara]

oh, i don't think that's what's happened. Creature's scum.

[Chara]

*Hawk: definitely town.
*Two: possibly town. not much to see here, honestly.
Gamma: i have my doubts. i don't think the reasons for townreading him are good, including Frog's.
Flavor: i thought he was scummy but after our talk i don't know.
sheep: i'm just townreading him.
Creature: hopefully scum!

so, who can guess the reason for my awkward readslist at EoD?

today is massclaim day. i'm not sure it will reveal much, but day before lylo.

[Chara]

i want sheep > flavor > me to claim.
unless Gamma has an unclaimed aspect to his role or Hawk is more than a miller.

[Chara]

i'm actually pretty sure Gamma is scum but would still prefer Flavor to claim first.
but it's not terrible if i'm not agreed with.

[Chara]

don't vote sheep.

[Chara]

we're massclaiming before any voting happens.

[Chara]

it's unlikely but people still quickhammer and get out of it.
i'm just concerned and would rather you didn't vote, i can't actually make you not.

[Chara]

i'm surprised no one's figured it out yet, honestly.

[Chara]

to bad so sad

please? :<

[Chara]

elaborate as to my motivation?

the readslist

was

exceedingly artificial, in my opinion. i made sure to specify Two and Hawk were my best townreads so it's interesting you say Hawk/sheep.

[Chara]

you think Flavor is most likely the last scum, right?

[Chara]

haha.
i wish Flavor was online.

[Chara]

i'm pretty obviously claiming PR so i'll just say so explicitly, and Flavor should claim first.
and if we lose here it's probably in part due to me, and i would very much like to win. :>
but we should be fine.

[Chara]

by a combination of my reads and what i know, i think Gamma is the last scum. i could be wrong, which is why Flavor needs to claim.

[Chara]

i'll put it this way. VT Chara is townreading sheep and Flavor.

[Chara]

it doesn't change my claim, i didn't expect Flavor to say anything other than VT.
it's just caution.

[Chara]

Gamma is my strongest scumread, scummy play, etc. etc, and he's not towntelling in the way i'm used to at all.

[Chara]

I’ll be back in a couple hours. Wait before any decisions please. I have some things I want to post.

[Chara]

anyway, claims are all out, unfortunately it's exactly what i expected.

[Chara]

i'm a role cop.
night 1 - Hawk is a miller, obviously.
night 2 - fitz is vanilla.
night 3 - Two is vanilla.
night 4 - sheep is vanilla.

i probably didn't use this in the best way i could have, but blame me in post for that. i'm still annoyed about lynching Fitz and i don't know enough about setup spec where i can confidently say the last scum is a goon or not.

[Chara]

Am I allowed to talk about completed Team Mafia games?

unfortunately not.

[Chara]

i really should have just copped Gamma. i'm like 95% sure my answer would be "neighbourizer" which he is proven to be, but maybe i could have gotten lucky and gotten a no result which would prove he hadn't claimed his ascetic, or something.
i thought of that just now. blah.
or maybe i wouldn't have gotten anything.

[Chara]

sheep: yes.
i assume because i can conftown the miller. ascetic scum makes sense considering their roleblocker so i don't know why i didn't consider that after he flipped, but hindsight is 20/20.

[Chara]

Why did you lynch Fitz?

VOTE: Chara

He said rolecop...

you do realize i could have easily confirmed a different VT or claimed i checked Frogger, right?

being vanilla doesn't mean he couldn't be goon scum.

[Chara]

i considered outing and stopping the lynch, but it would have gotten me nightkilled and i wouldn't have gotten more reports. (not that any but the first were useful) not to mention i didn't have confirmation of his alignment one way or the other.

and i was scumreading him.

[Chara]

hm, i don't really know how to balance normals.
maybe it feels less strong because the roleblocker is dead now.

[Chara]

wait, a full roleblocker makes sense with just giving town a cop, let alone giving us a cop and roleblocker.
perhaps an ascetic would be pushing it. it's all conjecture to begin with.

[Chara]

ask Frogger why i lynched fitz.

don't believe what?

[Chara]

i seriously considered fakeclaiming a vanilla result on frogger or something to avoid this exact situation. i know i lynched fitz and i know it was a mistake.

[Chara]

the reason i didn't buy frogger's vanilla cop claim should be obvious.

my readslist at EoD yesterday was in case i was nightkilled. stars indicated my reports.

[Chara]

anyway. i can't think of a role mafia would have. it doesn't feel like there are other PRs in the game so it's either a goon or it's Gamma.

Flavor's claim is probably true because Boon isn't dumb, is my thinking on that.

[Chara]

also, anyone who thinks it's miller, cop, and neighbourizer vs. full roleblocker, role cop, encryptor...
well, i don't know what to tell you.
i mean, perhaps you think i'm just a goon, which might account for it.

[Chara]

What do you refer to as my "town meta"?

oh, i forgot about this.
it isn't really meta so much as i've been able to tell you're town in other games, so the fact that i can't find much towniness to your posts here makes me think you're scum.