Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

Hey here's the bad unvote I mentioned earlier.

I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.

And here's him pivoting. This looks a lot like him getting off a townwagon to look better tomorrow (well, today now I guess). The lack of resistance to the wagon hasn't bothered him until now, even his unvote was just because he was "not ready to end the day just yet". And all the following references to Tchill in his ISO look awful. It reads a lot like he knows that the lynch would end up being on town and is giving enough resistance he can look good tomorrow but actually wants the lynch to go ahead. Weasel wording a lot of the time - he's not arguing that Srceen is town or anything, but he's making a big deal about not doing pre-flips or planning ahead as if Srceen will definitely flip scum. It just all reads really strangely and off. This is why I'm gonna start off the day voting LQ, most likely.

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?

I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.

The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.

If that's what you meant than carry on.

It has more to do with the fact that there is like zero resistance to this wagon on Chill. That is what I am looking at. Ending day this early is also time wasted.

Again, it seems odd he's touting this as the "main reason" when it wasn't even mentioned at first. It's like he realised that his initial reason didn't look good enough and wouldn't allow him to keep resisting voting until day end so had to come up with something else to save face.

If it was the first time I talked about wagonomics ITT, you might have a point, but it wasn't. I talked about not liking the Marquis wagon due to wagonomics. Also, from what you quoted, I thought I had mentioned something earlier than that about not liking the Chill wagon. You should go back and check that.

[Ranmaru]

LQ: What was your read on Postie at that time?

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ: What was your read on Postie at that time?

I can't say what my read was at the time I made that post. I was in large part in transition on my read of Postie. As such, it is really very difficult to say if I was TRing or SRing Postie at that time. But consider when you were Town in a game (not going to ask you based on this game because IDK if you are Town this game or not), and had just noticed something Scummy about a previous TR of your that you had: did you all the sudden say "Wow, they are Scum!" OR was it more of a progression? See, that is why progression matters and is Townie: because it's just how people change their reads more often than not and Scum on average are more opportunistic in who they SR so there is not as much progression. So if you look at my read on Postie going from TR to SR, you will see that I did have progression, and the post we are talking about is a big key factor to that.

[Ranmaru]

Why do you feel Postie is bussing Eddie in White Flag?

[Ranmaru]

Also, are you saying you read Postie as town at some point? If so, when?

[LicketyQuickety]

Why do you feel Postie is bussing Eddie in White Flag?

This is a read that has kinda changed for me overnight (like while I was sleeping, not night phase). I don't think I want to limit Postie to just bussing anymore. The thought process that I had before is that I had to ask myself: what if RC and by extension, Postie, is bussing Eddie? What does Postie gain by that? Well, consider the context of what Postie was saying at the time. Postie was pushing Eddie when really no one else was. Because of this, if Postie is bussing Eddie, then that would gain Postie MASSIVE Town cred if Eddie did end up getting lynched. So while Scum would be down a buddy in a game where only 2 Scum out of 3 need to be lynched, because of how much Town cred RC and by extension what Postie would get, they could manipulate Town for the rest of the game to pull off a Scum victory.

These kind of what if scenarios are what come to me a lot when I am reading a player like RC.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, are you saying you read Postie as town at some point? If so, when?

If you don't know that I was TRing postie at one point in the game, then it shows that you haven't looked at my ISO very carefully.

[Ranmaru]

Quote or link it for me, I am mobile.

[LicketyQuickety]

Quote or link it for me, I am mobile.

Quote what?

[Ranmaru]

Your read on Postie during D1 that you refer to in your #1377.

[LicketyQuickety]

Your read on Postie during D1 that you refer to in your #1377.

I think the only read you will find me giving explicitly close to the point that I made the post where I made a comment about Postie acting uncharacteristically by stating they had an unpopular opinion is in the first reads list I gave.

I don't get this obsession with my read on Postie. What purpose does this serve?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, I am more confident in LQ right now.

Well I'm more confident in Marquis, so I guess for now we have to agree to disagree

[Ranmaru]

LQ: You state in your #1351 that you first realized RC was playing through Postie in your #324. Yet your reasoning for voting Postie in your #1210 is that everything Postie writes is scripted by RC for her, which you already noticed in your #324. So the question is, why do you vote Postie so late in the day if you have already noticed RC being scripted since your #324?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Davsto I haven't done any ISO runs of people other than Eddie Sauce Chilly and LQ
Also not switching since I want to play with Ranmaru

Ooh I forgot to reply to this. My point was (remembering I hadn't yet reached the big big you-tsq discussion about it) it looked like the kind of vote that wasn't made naturally at the time from things that actually happened, but the kind of one that arises from reading someone's ISO to find a reason to vote them, and seeing something bad without actually seeing it in context, yknow? Having seen the big discussion with you and tsq I understand it a bit more and I'm not exactly interested in retreading that argument.

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

Hey here's the bad unvote I mentioned earlier.

I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.

And here's him pivoting. This looks a lot like him getting off a townwagon to look better tomorrow (well, today now I guess). The lack of resistance to the wagon hasn't bothered him until now, even his unvote was just because he was "not ready to end the day just yet". And all the following references to Tchill in his ISO look awful. It reads a lot like he knows that the lynch would end up being on town and is giving enough resistance he can look good tomorrow but actually wants the lynch to go ahead. Weasel wording a lot of the time - he's not arguing that Srceen is town or anything, but he's making a big deal about not doing pre-flips or planning ahead as if Srceen will definitely flip scum. It just all reads really strangely and off. This is why I'm gonna start off the day voting LQ, most likely.

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?

I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.

The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.

If that's what you meant than carry on.

It has more to do with the fact that there is like zero resistance to this wagon on Chill. That is what I am looking at. Ending day this early is also time wasted.

Again, it seems odd he's touting this as the "main reason" when it wasn't even mentioned at first. It's like he realised that his initial reason didn't look good enough and wouldn't allow him to keep resisting voting until day end so had to come up with something else to save face.

I have a readlist but I'd rather not share it for now because if I get nightkilled I don't want there to be ambiguity about why it happened. I don't want to give Eddie an out.
Alternatively, I'd be happy to share my reads once I've placed all my nulls because then I can die having done my job. Not that I'm saying my reads are likely to be super duper amazingly accurate or anything, but dying before having made a guess for the scumteam I can be happy with just sucks.

oh good something frm the rc book on how to play mafia. Seriously this is ridiculous because, not does it (a) give you an excuse to give fewer reads (making you much harder to read) and (b) mean that your good reads are just flat out unable to be seen so actually a lot of information would be lost on your death, its reasoning is completely flawed. That is, if you did get nightkilled, we wouldn't assume Eddie incriminated - if anything, we'd assume wifom going on and not lynch Eddie.

game of hers I linked

For reference

I noticed nsg is still considers herself newbie-ish in that game, so here's another more recent scum game so you can see how she's improved. The stuff she's done this game is still well outside of her scum range.

I was sceptical at first but I'm now pretty happy with the meta read on nsg, although I'd really prefer she just, yknow, contributed a lot more. Might push and encourage her throughout the day.

Anyway, I'm now getting to the point where reading every post is giving me an awful sense of deja vu - I think I've reached the limit of usefulness of this exercise for me, as fun as it was.

I skipped over this post because there wasn't much relevant to me but Something_Smart says that the part where you accuse LQ of scumpivoting is a pretty bad accusation as it's one of LQ's more redeeming posts.

[Ranmaru]

Gamma, please snip the quotes to the relevant parts you are responding to.

[Gamma Emerald]

I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.

And here's him pivoting. This looks a lot like him getting off a townwagon to look better tomorrow (well, today now I guess). The lack of resistance to the wagon hasn't bothered him until now, even his unvote was just because he was "not ready to end the day just yet". And all the following references to Tchill in his ISO look awful. It reads a lot like he knows that the lynch would end up being on town and is giving enough resistance he can look good tomorrow but actually wants the lynch to go ahead. Weasel wording a lot of the time - he's not arguing that Srceen is town or anything, but he's making a big deal about not doing pre-flips or planning ahead as if Srceen will definitely flip scum. It just all reads really strangely and off. This is why I'm gonna start off the day voting LQ, most likely.

I skipped over this post because there wasn't much relevant to me but Something_Smart says that the part where you accuse LQ of scumpivoting is a pretty bad accusation as it's one of LQ's more redeeming posts.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ: You state in your #1351 that you first realized RC was playing through Postie in your #324. Yet your reasoning for voting Postie in your #1210 is that everything Postie writes is scripted by RC for her, which you already noticed in your #324. So the question is, why do you vote Postie so late in the day if you have already noticed RC being scripted since your #324?

IDK about how you play as Town, but for me, I need a lot of time to contemplate my reads as has been demonstrated by my play in this game. There is a lot going on in this game besides my sole focus on Postie. There are a lot of things I have to consider besides the simple question "should I vote Postie or not?" This game is not as simple at looking at a single slot to decide if you want to vote them or not. I had

suspicions

that that is what was going on with Postie, but I was not 100% confident in that read and this is a read that is still developing. At the time I voted Postie I knew it was a vanity wagon because I knew Screen was going to be lynched. I didn't feel comfortable voting Screen given the massive lack of resistance to his wagon. This shouldn't be very difficult to put together. My POV should be viewed as valid as a Town POV. Given how Screen flipped Town, people are going to be hard pressed to prove that my motivation for being reserved about the Screen lynch was Scum motivated. It would be very difficult to make that case in my estimation.

I considered voting GE, but that didn't feel right. I considered voting Marquise, but that also didn't feel right considering that would make me look really opportunistic. I knew there was literally zero way Llama or shea was getting lynched so those votes would be meaningless and would just make me look like a fool. Voting Postie was a stance I made to signify to say "I see some people have been looking a bit at Postie, but no one is voting there." You could say in some sense of my POV I was saying there was a lot of resistance to people voting Postie even though there was some suspicion for Postie from multiple players.

If you seriously are still considering that me voting Postie was Scummy, then you haven't looked hard enough at the evidence.

[LicketyQuickety]

I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.

And here's him pivoting. This looks a lot like him getting off a townwagon to look better tomorrow (well, today now I guess). The lack of resistance to the wagon hasn't bothered him until now, even his unvote was just because he was "not ready to end the day just yet". And all the following references to Tchill in his ISO look awful. It reads a lot like he knows that the lynch would end up being on town and is giving enough resistance he can look good tomorrow but actually wants the lynch to go ahead. Weasel wording a lot of the time - he's not arguing that Srceen is town or anything, but he's making a big deal about not doing pre-flips or planning ahead as if Srceen will definitely flip scum. It just all reads really strangely and off. This is why I'm gonna start off the day voting LQ, most likely.

I skipped over this post because there wasn't much relevant to me but Something_Smart says that the part where you accuse LQ of scumpivoting is a pretty bad accusation as it's one of LQ's more redeeming posts.

Completely agree. What I was thinking is along the lines of something mastina said in an article regarding how Scum say things that are possible, but not probable. The meaning behind this is that it is difficult to determine if Davsto is trying to feed a lie or whether he is simply mistaken in his interpretation of my play. I have not played much with Davsto and last time I played with Davsto was years ago and I don't even remember the game except to say it was a role madness game where I day viged MarioManiac D1 where he was some buffed up SK and Town won that game. I remember literally nothing of Davsto's play or how competent of a player he is so I have essentially zero meta on him so I am more or less starting from scratch on Dav.

[Postie]

RC says to get off LQ and that LQ is just bad town with ego issues

(But also that if LQ stops voting Eddie at any point he'll stop defending LQ)

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo Postie any thoughts of your own currently?

[LicketyQuickety]

RC says to get off LQ and that LQ is just bad town with ego issues

(But also that if LQ stops voting Eddie at any point he'll stop defending LQ)

I 'on't give a fuck. I do what I want.

And to say I am bad Town is laughable, seriously.

[Gamma Emerald]

LQ what are your reads currently?
btw what point in the game is the second paragraph in post 1391 referring to?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This is scum to me. You ASK me to put Screen to L1, when he's at L2. Why do I need to add my vote, CES?

So I could hammer him, obviously. After spending 30 pages not voting, this is suddenly enough for you?

Ranmaru, look at one of LQ's posts like 1392 - doesn't that show a pro-town mindset? I don't even agree with it at all but it is an intricate thought that stems from a LQtown perspective. It's not hard to find scummy posts by Lickitung but it's not hard to find townie posts by him either. Let's not LQ distract us from a Marquislynch. It is time.

Vote: Marquis

[Postie]

Yo Postie any thoughts of your own currently?

Eddie is still obvscum. Everyone who I said was town before is still town and in fact proabably even townier now.

I just remembered you had a question for me earlier too.

Why not? As I see it you don't seem to have tried

I didn't see Tchill doing anything AI and I wasn't going to go through his ISO and repeatedly say "this post is NAI" over and over so that's why I made no comments. Srceenplay on the other hand was readable but you lynched him before I had the chance to go over his stuff properly.

[Postie]

@Davsto

- What's your read on me, and on TSQ?