Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six
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Llamarble Mafia Scum
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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LazyyyIn post 127, Tchill13 wrote:is there anything i NEED to directly comment on?
Why? Just a vague "interesting"? And not even "interesting if they flip scum/town", just "flip"? What an awful post.In post 132, Tchill13 wrote:
very interesting to look back at if marquis or Sauce ever flip.In post 105, Gamma Emerald wrote:LQ that's a good assessment, if that gets more votes I'll vote it but I'm sticking with Marqius for now
This meta talk is giving me a fucking headache. It's just wifom, wifom, wifom, all the way down the tracks.In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:Slapping me with a scum role when the last 3 games I rolled scum in were subpar at best ain't the best thing for me to have right now.wow i sure am glad you voted for a player where your only reason was gut as compared to the several players you've shaded
You did that. Less than 50 posts ago. Like, not "Marquis is scum and I think I've spotted his team" but you were all "interesting,,,"In post 161, Tchill13 wrote:I'm a little alarm llamarbale is already making associations around marquis.
I agree with TSQ marquis is pretty null.
To be fair that's like, 90% because everyone's been very, very wary of you since you absolutely smashed your first scum game. This is bad self-meta.In post 169, Postie wrote:Outside of my first scum game, the only one I've really enjoyed, I have never not been lynched as scum on this site.
This is an odd conclusion because, well, Tchill has barely seemed town and his scumhunting was baaad.In post 170, Llamarble wrote:Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.
On one hand, this is missing Word Sneak 1 where Postie actually played well as scum and was very townread and only lynched because I had an inkling that something was wrong and was cop so got a guilty. On the other hand, upon skimming the games it does appear her losses are to do with not playing well rather than being under scrutiny due to previous performances. Idk how I'm feeling about this whole self-meta thing.In post 183, Postie wrote:
You could have askedIn post 149, Llamarble wrote:I don't know how good at scum Postie is. She has mostly towntells at this point, but when I try to meta her I keep reading GD threads.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=70536
^ Last one I played. I did okay at first but then as soon as people started putting pressure on me I shut down and became a coasty postie and eventually replaced out. It's the one I menioned earlier so I don't expect you to read the whole thing but feel free to skim my ISO or whatever.
Then there are these from 2016:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66865
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67718
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65639
I wish I had more to show you from 2017 or something but I haven't played in a while. I feel like I had more than that in 2016 too but I can't find them right now.
I dislike how the reaction to the naked votes is "nothing to analyse" rather than "I'll ask more questions". And Llamarble definitely has some, if only, a little explanation behind his vote. Definitely enough to give a good starting point for questions if not analysis.In post 199, LicketyQuickety wrote:Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
That's actually a really good point. Reading through I feel like Lickety has almost been slipping under my radar which doesn't feel right. Too safe would be the word?In post 206, Postie wrote:You've just been really flat and superificial this game which isn't what I'm used to seeing from town!you
Whoa I forgot this person was playing. Probably because this is its first non-RVS post all game. Hm.In post 223, Lycanfire wrote:
It was an RVS vote because I didn't want to leave RVS. I wanted to make a sillier looking vote but I somewhat felt bad for Mathblade so I made it coherent enough to be picked up by their web bot.In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan
Do you usually need reasons for RVS votes?
As tsq points out promptly, this is bad. Bad bad. Feels like he decided to want to scumread Dunn and then find a reason I guess? Kinda like he checked his ISO and went "ooh, vote on Marquis, that's something good to push".In post 235, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I read it as a wolfy pop-in, he jumped in to vote and nothing else, meaning he didn't care about anything but pushing the wagonIn post 233, Thestatusquo wrote:You mentioned you had a "read" on dunn that was your own. Can you elaborate on that. How did you get a read from a naked RVS vote and then never posting again?-
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Llamarble Mafia Scum
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Cogito Ergo Sum YARR!
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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Hm, Tchill is scummy so I'm alright with his lynch on one hand, but then again two of my bigger scumreads so far (LQ and GE) are also voting him and I'm not sure about heavy bussing on D1 in a White Flag game.
Am overall pro-lynch but obviously not hammering yet.
Also I'll get fully caught up within 24 hours of next daystart if Tchill does get hammered soon. If not, I'll try my very hardest to be done within this day.-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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Welcome to the towny pile.In post 726, Davsto wrote:
LazyyyIn post 127, Tchill13 wrote:is there anything i NEED to directly comment on?
Why? Just a vague "interesting"? And not even "interesting if they flip scum/town", just "flip"? What an awful post.In post 132, Tchill13 wrote:
very interesting to look back at if marquis or Sauce ever flip.In post 105, Gamma Emerald wrote:LQ that's a good assessment, if that gets more votes I'll vote it but I'm sticking with Marqius for now
This meta talk is giving me a fucking headache. It's just wifom, wifom, wifom, all the way down the tracks.In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:Slapping me with a scum role when the last 3 games I rolled scum in were subpar at best ain't the best thing for me to have right now.wow i sure am glad you voted for a player where your only reason was gut as compared to the several players you've shaded
You did that. Less than 50 posts ago. Like, not "Marquis is scum and I think I've spotted his team" but you were all "interesting,,,"In post 161, Tchill13 wrote:I'm a little alarm llamarbale is already making associations around marquis.
I agree with TSQ marquis is pretty null.
To be fair that's like, 90% because everyone's been very, very wary of you since you absolutely smashed your first scum game. This is bad self-meta.In post 169, Postie wrote:Outside of my first scum game, the only one I've really enjoyed, I have never not been lynched as scum on this site.
This is an odd conclusion because, well, Tchill has barely seemed town and his scumhunting was baaad.In post 170, Llamarble wrote:Tchill seems town so far. "Alarmed" post counts in favor and scumhunting seems genuine enough.
On one hand, this is missing Word Sneak 1 where Postie actually played well as scum and was very townread and only lynched because I had an inkling that something was wrong and was cop so got a guilty. On the other hand, upon skimming the games it does appear her losses are to do with not playing well rather than being under scrutiny due to previous performances. Idk how I'm feeling about this whole self-meta thing.In post 183, Postie wrote:
You could have askedIn post 149, Llamarble wrote:I don't know how good at scum Postie is. She has mostly towntells at this point, but when I try to meta her I keep reading GD threads.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=70536
^ Last one I played. I did okay at first but then as soon as people started putting pressure on me I shut down and became a coasty postie and eventually replaced out. It's the one I menioned earlier so I don't expect you to read the whole thing but feel free to skim my ISO or whatever.
Then there are these from 2016:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66865
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=67718
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65639
I wish I had more to show you from 2017 or something but I haven't played in a while. I feel like I had more than that in 2016 too but I can't find them right now.
I dislike how the reaction to the naked votes is "nothing to analyse" rather than "I'll ask more questions". And Llamarble definitely has some, if only, a little explanation behind his vote. Definitely enough to give a good starting point for questions if not analysis.In post 199, LicketyQuickety wrote:Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
That's actually a really good point. Reading through I feel like Lickety has almost been slipping under my radar which doesn't feel right. Too safe would be the word?In post 206, Postie wrote:You've just been really flat and superificial this game which isn't what I'm used to seeing from town!you
Whoa I forgot this person was playing. Probably because this is its first non-RVS post all game. Hm.In post 223, Lycanfire wrote:
It was an RVS vote because I didn't want to leave RVS. I wanted to make a sillier looking vote but I somewhat felt bad for Mathblade so I made it coherent enough to be picked up by their web bot.In post 136, EddieFenix wrote:I'll need some clarification on that vote at some point, Lycan
Do you usually need reasons for RVS votes?
As tsq points out promptly, this is bad. Bad bad. Feels like he decided to want to scumread Dunn and then find a reason I guess? Kinda like he checked his ISO and went "ooh, vote on Marquis, that's something good to push".In post 235, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I read it as a wolfy pop-in, he jumped in to vote and nothing else, meaning he didn't care about anything but pushing the wagonIn post 233, Thestatusquo wrote:You mentioned you had a "read" on dunn that was your own. Can you elaborate on that. How did you get a read from a naked RVS vote and then never posting again?tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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**This vote count was edited to capture Cogito Ergo Sum’s Unvote/Vote**Last edited by MathBlade on Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Edited to fix votecountScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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Whoops ran VC before that post fixing.ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade-
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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VC has been fixed.ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade-
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Llamarble Mafia Scum
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It was pretty dubious, wasn't it. Definitely made me doubt my townread on him and remove him from the upper tier townies.In post 728, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Anyone interested in a last-minute actually good wagon on GE for that gross case in #702?
Unvote, vote: Gamma Emerald
I'm not as ready to welcome Davsto to the towny pile as TSQ, I think he would be about as good a competing wagon as GE.
Also I think really I was intending to discourage Eddie from just randomly hammering, as if he's town and does that, that sends town down a bad path.
If he's scum I doubt he'll get far anyway.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Yeah, I addressed this earlier. This is just how I react to SRs on me, TSQ and Chill should be able to confirm this since they saw me do it as Town.In post 705, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'll try to explain my feelings about LQ with a specific string of interactions.
First, this talks down the playstyle of townhunting. Second, he gets up in Llamerble's face about the read, trying to dig for reasons.In post 576, LicketyQuickety wrote:
OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?In post 561, Llamarble wrote:(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.
Following the second point of the last post in the sequence, LQ accuses Llamarble of their read not being valid since it only references one part of their play as scummy. First, that may not be the case and that could just be their best way of stating things, second, I don't see anything wrong with that, people can doubt townreads based of small parts of a person's play, so it makes sense reads could be formed from them too.In post 583, LicketyQuickety wrote:
If you have ISO'd me a couple of times, I find it very strange that you are Scum reading me for just one particular thing i.e. my engagement with shea.In post 582, Llamarble wrote:
I've ISOed you a couple times.In post 576, LicketyQuickety wrote: OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?
I don't have a grand plan for my reading order.
I was literally falling asleep and thought "whoah, why am I townreading Postie again?" and got up to check.
While TSQ's theory is very wrong imo (scum needs to have townreads to look like they're actually playing) This seems a bit confrontational, like LQ is trying to get in TSQ's face with the fact he made an incorrect assumption.In post 592, LicketyQuickety wrote:
You are assuming I am SRing Llama for that.In post 590, Thestatusquo wrote:
what's the point of scum "getting town reads right" at all? isn't the literal only motivation for getting a town read being town? this game is mountainous. scum doesn't need town reads.In post 576, LicketyQuickety wrote:
OK, this sounds like you are trying to put more effort into getting your TRs correct than your SRs. What's the Town motivation for that? Have you even bothered to ISO me, your strongest SR?In post 561, Llamarble wrote:(If you are town, we are on the same team, so pls help)
Anyway the reason I woke myself up was I got paranoid about Postie and ISOed her in bed and I can't remember why she is town.
Mostly I just see a good player playing the game. Solid probability of town because game loaded with town but not the obvtown I was hoping.
TSQ is take it to the bank never lynch town though because he got frustrated with me and tried to pull me more actively into the game.(which worked). I will ISO him again sometime to make sure but he and Gamma are town 1 and town 2 and NSG has made fakeable posts but they have also been good; gets exhausting to continue to produce moderate grade town tells like that as scum so I think she can be town 3.
You know the "why are you arguing with me you think I'm scum" logic is pretty goddamn stupid. Town are uninformed, and scumreads are not 100%. By engaging, you attempt to get more info about them and see if your read might be wrong. There's also the fact LQ seems very up in arms about the scumread on him. Also the last line seems like ad hom.In post 597, LicketyQuickety wrote:
So... are you trying to argue to me why I am Scum or what?In post 595, Thestatusquo wrote:Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.
It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.
You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.
Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.
It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.
And I do defend myself as Town, look it up. Also, the distinction you made regarding fighting against your own lynch doesn't even exist IMO.
I am not implying anything by questioning Llama, I am pointing out what doesn't make sense to me. But sure, label that as a reason to SR me.
Frankly, you are fucking horrible at understanding my motivations, shea.
So having looked at this, my reasoning is such: LQ seems way to concerned over the scumread on him, is getting in people's faces about it, and it feels like he's not really working to guide people to someone else, he's just trying to make them think they're wrong.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Llamarble Mafia Scum
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I tend to play very holistically, I'll look at someone's entire ISO and think to myself "is this a scum ISO or a town ISO"
Or at the entire game and "is this a game where CES and AD and Tchill are the scumteam?
That being said, I think I've shared quite a few specific things that have influenced my reads if you look through.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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So you've colored in a few things with a little detail. That doesn't make me think "I can see Llama's thought process here and it looks Town motivated". If you don't know what you have been doing wrong in this game (given its a mountainous setup) then you should probably be playing a different game.In post 740, Llamarble wrote:I tend to play very holistically, I'll look at someone's entire ISO and think to myself "is this a scum ISO or a town ISO"
Or at the entire game and "is this a game where CES and AD and Tchill are the scumteam?
That being said, I think I've shared quite a few specific things that have influenced my reads if you look through.
This whole "I read X player as Scum and Y player as Town" with no explanation shouldn't get anyone to TR you, period.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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This is more well poisoning.In post 741, LicketyQuickety wrote:
So you've colored in a few things with a little detail. That doesn't make me think "I can see Llama's thought process here and it looks Town motivated". If you don't know what you have been doing wrong in this game (given its a mountainous setup) then you should probably be playing a different game.In post 740, Llamarble wrote:I tend to play very holistically, I'll look at someone's entire ISO and think to myself "is this a scum ISO or a town ISO"
Or at the entire game and "is this a game where CES and AD and Tchill are the scumteam?
That being said, I think I've shared quite a few specific things that have influenced my reads if you look through.
This whole "I read X player as Scum and Y player as Town" with no explanation shouldn't get anyone to TR you, period.
"Colored in a few things with a little detail" is not even a remotely reasonable description of what llamarble says he does.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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You're either confbiasing me or Scum so I don't really care about your opinion.In post 742, Thestatusquo wrote:
This is more well poisoning.In post 741, LicketyQuickety wrote:
So you've colored in a few things with a little detail. That doesn't make me think "I can see Llama's thought process here and it looks Town motivated". If you don't know what you have been doing wrong in this game (given its a mountainous setup) then you should probably be playing a different game.In post 740, Llamarble wrote:I tend to play very holistically, I'll look at someone's entire ISO and think to myself "is this a scum ISO or a town ISO"
Or at the entire game and "is this a game where CES and AD and Tchill are the scumteam?
That being said, I think I've shared quite a few specific things that have influenced my reads if you look through.
This whole "I read X player as Scum and Y player as Town" with no explanation shouldn't get anyone to TR you, period.
"Colored in a few things with a little detail" is not even a remotely reasonable description of what llamarble says he does.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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Was this a serious post?In post 11, Llamarble wrote:Huh, that was pretty easy.
VOTE: Postie
I'm a little curious if you're intentionally obvscum
Might be worth lynching even if intentional thoughI was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I like how that post of his picks down a deeper level into things that had already been discussed. He's not looking surface level at all imo.In post 737, Llamarble wrote:
It was pretty dubious, wasn't it. Definitely made me doubt my townread on him and remove him from the upper tier townies.In post 728, Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Anyone interested in a last-minute actually good wagon on GE for that gross case in #702?
Unvote, vote: Gamma Emerald
I'm not as ready to welcome Davsto to the towny pile as TSQ, I think he would be about as good a competing wagon as GE.
Also I think really I was intending to discourage Eddie from just randomly hammering, as if he's town and does that, that sends town down a bad path.
If he's scum I doubt he'll get far anyway.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?
I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.
The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.
If that's what you meant than carry on.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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It has more to do with the fact that there is like zero resistance to this wagon on Chill. That is what I am looking at. Ending day this early is also time wasted.In post 748, Thestatusquo wrote:If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?
I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.
The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.
If that's what you meant than carry on.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
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