Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: EddieFenix

I think that LQ being scum mostly makes sense from the perspective of tchill being scum. If tchill isn't scum a lot of LQs actions on that wagon look a lot better.

Willing to throw some muscle behind postie's push. I think the case makes a lot of sense.

Not really wanting to go after marquis. But if he tries to lurk through this day too I want him to eat rope really quick.

[Davsto]

If it was the first time I talked about wagonomics ITT, you might have a point, but it wasn't. I talked about not liking the Marquis wagon due to wagonomics. Also, from what you quoted, I thought I had mentioned something earlier than that about not liking the Chill wagon. You should go back and check that.

Damn, you're right after a quick check - you mentioned it in 710. Hmm. Won't lie - there are a lot of other reasons I think you're scum and are voting you, that I have mentioned in detail. But I'll concede this point.

@Davsto

- What's your read on me, and on TSQ?

You? I'm irritatingly unsure of - I remember reading you well in the past, but you channeling RC is really fucking with me because everything RC does

always

rubs me as scummy, and particularly so in this game as they are things you'd never do solo as town in my experiences playing with you, so my read is all over the place - my gut is screaming scum, but my head knows it's just RC and his usual bullshit. And I want to ask you to cut it out and use RC's advice for reads and not play, but am fully aware you believe him to be a great player and so will not do so. My read on you will be decided soon, dependent on how I come out of this EddieFenix metadive, because it's something much more concrete to grasp on to.

TSQ I'm fairly townreading right now because his posts have always seemed a bit deeper than superficial and he's asked good questions etc etc. Not gonna consider lynching unless something drastic happens.

[Postie]

things you'd never do solo as town in my experiences playing with you

Like what?

My read on you will be decided soon, dependent on how I come out of this EddieFenix metadive, because it's something much more concrete to grasp on to.

Do you think your thoughts on Eddie's alignment will affect your thoughts on whether I'm making a town or scum push?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yo Postie any thoughts of your own currently?

Eddie is still obvscum. Everyone who I said was town before is still town and in fact proabably even townier now.

I just remembered you had a question for me earlier too.

Why not? As I see it you don't seem to have tried

I didn't see Tchill doing anything AI and I wasn't going to go through his ISO and repeatedly say "this post is NAI" over and over so that's why I made no comments. Srceenplay on the other hand was readable but you lynched him before I had the chance to go over his stuff properly.

I asked about your reads because most of your content this game day seems to be from RC

[Postie]

Ftr RC has only been weighing in heavily today and just before deadline yesterday

Like do you think RC wrote my case on Eddie like wtf are you talking about

[Postie]

Oh wait you said game day not game fair enough

[Postie]

Me and RC's reads have homogenised a lot today. I think the only thing I sort-of disagree with him on is the TSQ scumread and that's really more "I haven't thought about it enough yet" than explicit disagreement.

[Davsto]

things you'd never do solo as town in my experiences playing with you

Like what?

Like... everything. Refusing to give more than one scumread, saying things like "LQ is bad town unless he unvotes my scumread then he's scum", the stuff that's a bit harsher and stuff, while I remember you (in the few games we've played) being a more traditional player (although maybe that's changed since the year or so we last played). Regardless, it's honestly just RC's playstyle - it's always given me scumvibes, and I'm trying not to let that get in the way, but the problem being it makes it a lot harder to grasp on a read.

My read on you will be decided soon, dependent on how I come out of this EddieFenix metadive, because it's something much more concrete to grasp on to.

Do you think your thoughts on Eddie's alignment will affect your thoughts on whether I'm making a town or scum push?[/quote]It's not my thoughts on Eddie's alignment per se, it's my thought on the distribution of meta, and how likely from the games that your meta read, even if wrong, comes from a place of town or scum.
For example, if I find most games fit with the patterns you've given, with a few differing, I could to some extent disagree with your push being a concrete-scum meta read but still give benefit of the doubt that it could come from a town place. On the other hand, if I find that a large proportion of games, particularly recent ones, don't fit your pattern, I will look unfavourably upon you.

[Thestatusquo]

things you'd never do solo as town in my experiences playing with you

Like what?

Like... everything. Refusing to give more than one scumread, saying things like "LQ is bad town unless he unvotes my scumread then he's scum", the stuff that's a bit harsher and stuff, while I remember you (in the few games we've played) being a more traditional player (although maybe that's changed since the year or so we last played). Regardless, it's honestly just RC's playstyle - it's always given me scumvibes, and I'm trying not to let that get in the way, but the problem being it makes it a lot harder to grasp on a read.

My read on you will be decided soon, dependent on how I come out of this EddieFenix metadive, because it's something much more concrete to grasp on to.

Do you think your thoughts on Eddie's alignment will affect your thoughts on whether I'm making a town or scum push?

It's not my thoughts on Eddie's alignment per se, it's my thought on the distribution of meta, and how likely from the games that your meta read, even if wrong, comes from a place of town or scum.
For example, if I find most games fit with the patterns you've given, with a few differing, I could to some extent disagree with your push being a concrete-scum meta read but still give benefit of the doubt that it could come from a town place. On the other hand, if I find that a large proportion of games, particularly recent ones, don't fit your pattern, I will look unfavourably upon you.[/quote]
This is a very town post.

[Thestatusquo]

God dammit. I got infected by davstos inability to quote things correctly.

[Ranmaru]

Shea, I would like to talk reads.

CES, I want two more scum reads.

[Davsto]

(FIXED)

things you'd never do solo as town in my experiences playing with you

Like what?

Like... everything. Refusing to give more than one scumread, saying things like "LQ is bad town unless he unvotes my scumread then he's scum", the stuff that's a bit harsher and stuff, while I remember you (in the few games we've played) being a more traditional player (although maybe that's changed since the year or so we last played). Regardless, it's honestly just RC's playstyle - it's always given me scumvibes, and I'm trying not to let that get in the way, but the problem being it makes it a lot harder to grasp on a read.

My read on you will be decided soon, dependent on how I come out of this EddieFenix metadive, because it's something much more concrete to grasp on to.

Do you think your thoughts on Eddie's alignment will affect your thoughts on whether I'm making a town or scum push?

It's not my thoughts on Eddie's alignment per se, it's my thought on the distribution of meta, and how likely from the games that your meta read, even if wrong, comes from a place of town or scum.
For example, if I find most games fit with the patterns you've given, with a few differing, I could to some extent disagree with your push being a concrete-scum meta read but still give benefit of the doubt that it could come from a town place. On the other hand, if I find that a large proportion of games, particularly recent ones, don't fit your pattern, I will look unfavourably upon you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Me and RC's reads have homogenised a lot today. I think the only thing I sort-of disagree with him on is the TSQ scumread and that's really more "I haven't thought about it enough yet" than explicit disagreement.

Why does he scumread TSQ?

[Postie]

Refusing to give more than one scumread,

That wasn't RC's idea. I tend towards having a few very strong scum and town reads, so it's just an approach that fits naturally with my playstyle. Although I'm aware RC has done this also, so it's possible I adopted it from him.

"LQ is bad town unless he unvotes my scumread then he's scum"

Neither of us said this. He doesn't become scum if he stops voting Eddie; he just becomes useless and not worth keeping around, for the most part.

On the other hand, if I find that a large proportion of games, particularly recent ones, don't fit your pattern, I will look unfavourably upon you.

The two I went into in detail were his most recent town and scum game.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea, I would like to talk reads.

CES, I want two more scum reads.

I posted a read list towards the end of day 2. My reads are mostly similar, except I have moved LQ down and moved Eddie up. I need to wagon dive later to see if I think there were opportunistic votes. I think the ces hammer was mostly fine.

An updated version would look something like this. Anything else you need to know ask me specifically.

Ranmaru
Lycan
Davsto

Gamma
CES
Postie
AD
NSG

Marquis
Dunn
LQ

Eddie
Screenplay

[Postie]

Me and RC's reads have homogenised a lot today. I think the only thing I sort-of disagree with him on is the TSQ scumread and that's really more "I haven't thought about it enough yet" than explicit disagreement.

Why does he scumread TSQ?

Okay RC's thoughts are as follows:

[...]

Shea is scum for:

• the way he tunneled Tchill/Srceenplay and largely lead the wagon
  
• brushing off RC's read of Srceenplay based on not respecting him, which felt like a scum excuse, especially given the people on his team have experience with RC and should know better than that
  
• apparently copypasting stuff from his town games

[Thestatusquo]

Lol, left tchill on it. Obvi he's not suspect number one any more.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah, RCs reasons for finding me scum are:
- I tunneled on tchill even though I wrote cases on my other top scum read, posted a read list, fully interacted on various other parts of the town including discussions on NSG, Gamma, Postie and Davsto/AD.
- I don't think he's a very good mafia player and apparently that means I'm scum because of my teammates.
- What the fuck did I copy paste from my town games?

[Davsto]

Refusing to give more than one scumread,

That wasn't RC's idea. I tend towards having a few very strong scum and town reads, so it's just an approach that fits naturally with my playstyle. Although I'm aware RC has done this also, so it's possible I adopted it from him.

Point is it feels a lot like an RC thing that strikes me as scummy coming from you, if that makes sense? I know I'm not being precise but you can see how your slot is being really hard for me to read this game.

"LQ is bad town unless he unvotes my scumread then he's scum"

Neither of us said this. He doesn't become scum if he stops voting Eddie; he just becomes useless and not worth keeping around, for the most part.

I guess you didn't say it precisely, but

(But also that if LQ stops voting Eddie at any point he'll stop defending LQ)

felt lowkey like that, in the sense that you're sort of preemptively pressuring LQ into agreeing with you.

On the other hand, if I find that a large proportion of games, particularly recent ones, don't fit your pattern, I will look unfavourably upon you.

The two I went into in detail were his most recent town and scum game.

Yes, I know now, I didn't then. My point was to give an example of how "disagreeing with your meta read on Eddie" would not necessarily mean "thinking you are scum" - I have to get the impression that, as well as disagreeing with your reads, your meta was artificial or misleading in some way. I'm in the process of making the post with my EddieMeta read etc now.

[Postie]

- What the fuck did I copy paste from my town games?

This was actually RC sheeping something Firebringer said so I'll have to chase that up with Fire when he gets online. Something about it feeling like you were directly lifting things you did in town games into this game.

[Postie]

I know I'm not being precise but you can see how your slot is being really hard for me to read this game.

Not really. :L

[Thestatusquo]

Please give me examples of the actual copy/paste, because honestly it sounds like I'm being accused of being scum because firebringer noticed I'm playing in a manner similar to my town meta? Which honestly, that's just such a shockingly bad argument that I have to assume that he means something else.

I'll wait to here more in depth explanation before responding fully, but do you think my play yesterday constituted a tunnel? Cuz honestly I can't think anyone who was actually paying attention to this game would characterize my play that way.

[Davsto]

I know I'm not being precise but you can see how your slot is being really hard for me to read this game.

Not really. :L

well the tl;dr is that RC's playstyle always gives me scumvibes gut-wise lmao

And (through a mixture of you being helped by him right now, and his playstyle influencing yours in general with you taking cues from him to put into your own permanent playstyle even outside of his direct help) your playstyle in this game is resembling his

So it's putting me on edge because my gut gets scumvibes from it

But my head knows that I'm not really able to actually consistently read these aspects so I'm ignoring it

So I'm struggling to read you

(Does that help a little?)

[Postie]

Please give me examples of the actual copy/paste, because honestly it sounds like I'm being accused of being scum because firebringer noticed I'm playing in a manner similar to my town meta? Which honestly, that's just such a shockingly bad argument that I have to assume that he means something else.

Yeah idk either. Will ask for examples.

I'll wait to here more in depth explanation before responding fully, but do you think my play yesterday constituted a tunnel? Cuz honestly I can't think anyone who was actually paying attention to this game would characterize my play that way.

It was the way you didn't seem willing to reevaluate your read. You pushed for the lynch and low-key lead it while never seeming open to changing your stance or interacting with Srceenplay in a way that could open up the opportunity for you to.

[Postie]

(Does that help a little?)

A little.