Mini Normal 1989: A Perfectly Normal Day -- Game Over

[Tchill13]

Chumba needs to be lynched. Pretty obvious imo havo wasn't being manipulative. Chumba manipulated the conversation to put havo is a bad spot. Eth0s literally said "bad town player" and havo hasn't drawn scum on site as far as ik so eth0s couldn't have been talking about his scum game leading me to believe eth0s was calling him a bad town player.

It's silly. It's a technicality that chumba has honed in on.

Now one read it as TvT so when havo flips town eth0s would be the next to be pointed at.

I'm not quite sure why nobody is understanding this.

Chumba literally has a scum team pinned down but wants Havo's head. Not the other two. He wants havo lynched. The other two don't lead to another person getting lynched if they flip town. If havo flips town it might lead to eth0s getting lynched.

I think this is chumba meta though so I don't think it is scum indicative. It will be annoying because he wont let it go but I'm not going to scum read him for it.

Well frankly I'm not pitching this to you. You're the one that expected havo to be lynched before you got back.

[Tchill13]

you didnt acknowledge the first post.

Didn’t see anything worth responding to

Yeah just ignore the fact that we're both usually wrong when telling others how a player would act if they were town.

[Tchill13]

and here i am wondering why you haven't asked me why i care who's lynched given my day 1 history.

Cause I’m not worried about what you are doing right now. My sights are focused on 3 people. If one of them flip town I’ll reevaluate but everything I’ve seen points to them being connected.

Yeah went back and reread and saw you were voting her already. It’s late for me.
VOTE: havo

I’m not voting anyone else until this flips.

This is the 2nd time chumba has directly contradicted himself.

Sights focused on 3.... Obviously not.

"If you're town you'll stop arguing"

Havo then says "I'm done"

Chumba then points out a grammatical technicality and says "havo is definitely scum".

[Tchill13]

his iso never said "you are bad town"

Havo I'm sorry that you are so bad at being a town player but please don't take your anger out on me

thank you for proving me correct.

now if you are town, please drop this stupid discussion.

his iso never said "you are bad town"

Havo I'm sorry that you are so bad at being a town player but please don't take your anger out on me

thank you for proving me correct.

now if you are town, please drop this stupid discussion.

Im not gonna argue with you.

I’m done with it.

I think havo did a good enough job in showing that he's town.

[profii]

right I am super clever and worked out you can add 2 players to the ISO page so I've just looked at Havo and eth0s.

I voted Havo based on 392 = I didn't recall a massive eth0s push in the last game from him, I'm sure he will disagree but I felt this could be some kind of weird ploy starting up.

As I said, eth0s had a breakdown, it felt entirely not constructive so I wasn't inclined to read it or catch up with it after it expanded for a couple of pages whilst I was busy yesterday. However, looking at it, it wasn't as mud-slingy as I thought it was going to be, but I still didn't take much from it...

UNVOTE: havo

I like TChill's point that a scum is unlikely to push as hard at this point and attract attention so much.

[HeWhoSwims]

Hey. Quick post. Was very busy yesterday. Trying to read back fully soon. From what I've seen ethos looks like town trying to draw out reactions which is good. Doesn't look good for Havo but I need to re read.

[Chumba]

You’re a better player than this.

No I’m not actually. I’m trying to be but tunneling is what I’m known for and you know this. People on glb hated me for my tunneling also. You should definitely know that.

[Chumba]

This is the 2nd time chumba has directly contradicted himself.

I haven’t contracted myself at all actually. Things change. I’m allowed to change my mind. Havo is confirmed scum. Especially now that he’s acting like tunneling is not like me. Anyone familiar with my play knows I’m a tunneler and he definitely is familiar with my play.

Havo is confirmed scum from my POV. If people want to ignore that and vote me instead that’s fine but I’m right band will be vindicated eventually.

I would say I expect more from you but early day 1 you are a shit player so I really don’t. If you are town you need to take the blinders off.

Havo did manipulate ethos
Havo ignoring others calling him town actually contradicts himself
Havo lying about me and my playstyle is just more proof he’s scum.

You don’t want to listen to reason so I’m done with you this game.

[profii]

Chumba needs to be lynched. Pretty obvious imo havo wasn't being manipulative. Chumba manipulated the conversation to put havo is a bad spot. Eth0s literally said "bad town player" and havo hasn't drawn scum on site as far as ik so eth0s couldn't have been talking about his scum game leading me to believe eth0s was calling him a bad town player.

It's silly. It's a technicality that chumba has honed in on.

Now one read it as TvT so when havo flips town eth0s would be the next to be pointed at.

I'm not quite sure why nobody is understanding this.

Chumba literally has a scum team pinned down but wants Havo's head. Not the other two. He wants havo lynched. The other two don't lead to another person getting lynched if they flip town. If havo flips town it might lead to eth0s getting lynched.

I think this is chumba meta though so I don't think it is scum indicative. It will be annoying because he wont let it go but I'm not going to scum read him for it.

Well frankly I'm not pitching this to you. You're the one that expected havo to be lynched before you got back.

lol?

you shouldn't need to pitch anything, if your reasoning on any read is sound and true then why would you have to frame it in a way that appeals to a particular player.

[profii]

I think eth0s is very strongly town from the 1v1. I agree with the points TChill made about not wanting to expose himself with a fit like this if he were scum.

Profii's behavior around the 1v1 is concerning to me. He popped in and out without trying to interfere with anything, he kept putting off having a reaction - "I'm not sure what to make about eth0s' breakdown," and he came in with a pretty opportunistic vote on Havo.

i agree that ethos comes off as town from the 1v1

but the fact that profii didnt interfere doesn't bother me at all because it's what i would've done if i were online at the time. sometimes you gain more information from just letting the game play out

no point searching for another scum now because they will use our discussion to fiddle the night kills/actions/etc.

I think I'm on Havo. I think Chumba should just vote and Havo can Havo himself

This post is really bad. Profii, who has made sure to let everyone know that Havo hammers at L-1 so we don't get a quick lynch, is talking in this post like Havo is a done deal and tried to push his lynch through quickly.

to be fair, i like the thought of havo havoing himself

osuka, you are exactly on my wavelength at this point.

havo havoing himself was an amusing thought than a push to lynch (this sentence aimed at Jodaxq criticism)

I've already pointed out the argument was becoming more insults than debate of facts so I stayed away. It just seemed tedious.

[Chumba]

you shouldn't need to pitch anything, if your reasoning on any read is sound and true then why would you have to frame it in a way that appeals to a particular player.

Agree. But his reasoning isn’t sound. I’m now wondering if they are scum together because tchill’s reasons are shit. Some aren’t even true.

[Chumba]

Pretty obvious imo havo wasn't being manipulative

how is it obvious? Ethos says one thing, Havo says he said something else. Ethos has explained this and havo is ignoring the explanation. Maybe my definition is wrong, but if it isn't manipulation what is it?

You are now doing the same thing here.

Eth0s literally said "bad town player"

That isn't what ethos said at all. I challenged havo to find where ethos said "bad town player" and he was unable to. I would challenge you to do the same but I know you will end up with the same results. This is what ethos said word for word unedited.

Havo I'm sorry that you are so

bad at being a town player

but please don't take your anger out on me

As I have already explained (which I shouldn't have to since anyone who has passed middle school english should be able to figure this out) "You are bad town" has a completely different meaning than "you are a bad town player"

This one puzzles me. Can you explain why you brought this up?

havo hasn't drawn scum on site as far as ik so eth0s couldn't have been talking about his scum game

Ethos wasn't talking about havo's scum game, he specifically was talking about his town game. So what does havo never being scum have to do with this conversation? Nothing as far as I can tell.

It's silly. It's a technicality that chumba has honed in on.

This technicality is actually very important. When now 2 people are saying ethose said "you are bad town" when he actually didn't matters to me. Havo completely twisted ethos words, and now you are doing it also.

if you don't believe that is what ethos meant, that's fine I can actually accept that but when you both say he said something he never said, that's a boldface lie and I can't tolerate lies.

Now one read it as TvT so when havo flips town eth0s would be the next to be pointed a

and? Why do I need lynched because of what you think others will do? I won't be pushing an ethos lynch if havo flips town (which btw he won't) so why are you trying to put the blame on me for something that hasn't even happened and you don't know if it would happen?

I'm not quite sure why nobody is understanding this.

Probably because you aren't making sense.

Chumba literally has a scum team pinned down but wants Havo's head. Not the other two. He wants havo lynched.

And? what's wrong with that? i was fine earlier lynching one of the 3, but havo has done more than enough that I am 100% sure he is scum. I am not 100% on my other reads. havo manipulated the conversation with ethos, he has blatantly contradicted himself, and he has essentially lied about my meta saying tunneling isn't like me. I don't see how havo could be town at this point.

The other two don't lead to another person getting lynched if they flip town. If havo flips town it might lead to eth0s getting lynched.

Again, why are you holding me responsible for what other people will do? i actually think you are wrong though. if havo somehow flips town (which he actually won't) I am sure more people will be trying to lynch me.


let me ask you something. if I am lynched today, Will you lynch havo tomorrow after I flip town? because that is all I care about right how. havo needs rope. he is scum

[Chumba]

This is what ethos said word for word unedited.

correction. unedited minus me bolding the relevant statement.

[Havo]

Well I definitely think the lynch should be me or Chumba today.

It’s probably going to be a Day 1 victory for scum either way, but I don’t see how the game can reasonably progress with Chumba and I still alive. He’s ruined any chance of us working together, and it will always be a point of contention holding town back. So it needs to be resolved today. Plus it will reveal associations. I don’t mind taking one here. Town could do a lot worse than lynching me on Day 1. Seriously. I’ll just go sign up for the next one.

And because now I believe this has become a detriment to town, get me to L-1 and I’ll hammer myself.

[Chumba]

He’s ruined any chance of us working togethe

nah, you did that all on your own.

[profii]

Eth0s literally said "bad town player"

That isn't what ethos said at all. I challenged havo to find where ethos said "bad town player" and he was unable to. I would challenge you to do the same but I know you will end up with the same results. This is what ethos said word for word unedited.

Havo I'm sorry that you are so

bad at being a town player

but please don't take your anger out on me

As I have already explained (which I shouldn't have to since anyone who has passed middle school english should be able to figure this out) "You are bad town" has a completely different meaning than "you are a bad town player"

Reluctantly, I feel the need to be really really finicky about this.

You are not quoting eth0s word for word in your post,

eth0s: you are so bad at being a town player
tchill: bad town player
chumba: you are a bad town player

the above 3 quotes are all from the above quoted post and all are slightly different.

I think the key to eth0s' sentence is the word 'being' - this firstly suggests present tense, so reference to what havo is doing in

this game

. It could also suggest he thinks havo is not a town player at this moment and he is acting - i.e. scum reading or if he was town reading havo, it could just be that he thinks the way havo is playing the game isn't particularly productive.

In relation to your quote of "you are a bad town player" - without the word 'being' this is less specific to the present moment in time and could be interpreted as "in all the games I've seen you play, you are a bad town player" - I think it's less specific than eth0s post - different enough to comment on anyway.

I haven't fully read the argument so I can't comment as well on the tchill quote as just that quote is a bit out of context as it stands.

[profii]

Havo where do you stand on Tchill?

[Chumba]

yes, sorry for my typo. The point I was trying to make is clear though. the meanings of the 2 statements are clearly different. Once a person explains what they mean, you can't turn around and say they meant to say something else and that is what havo did and now what tchill is doing.

[profii]

Then hang on, you did something similar again here and I would have expected you to contest my post on the basis of what you said in 378

He never says you are bad town, He says you are bad at being a town player.

The are similar yet completely different statements.

agreed...

Saying you are bad town would imply this game.

Saying you play bad as town implies something different imo.

disagree. I said in my last post, saying you are bad town, could refer to any game.
Using the word being implies present tense i.e. this game, which contradicts your post.

you also changed the quote again "you play bad as town"

I would suggest "you play bad as town" and "you are bad town" carry highly similar meanings, i.e. your general game...

but

"you are bad at being a town player" implies present tense i.e. this game only.


that's actually quite concerning being as it is the fundamental basis of your tunnel

[Chumba]

I don’t agree that being implies present tense. Could be I guess but that’s why you have to consider his explanation as part of it. He explains what he meant.

Me not remembering his exact words doesn’t really change anything. The end point is the same. He’s saying havo plays bad as town not that he’s bad town.

[Chumba]

In the end only time will tell who’s right or who’s wrong about what ethos actually meant. I trust his explanation and think havo ignoring it made him scummy.

I have had similar experiences myself even one recently where scum tried to do something similar so it resonates with me

[Chumba]

I mean even what ethos did in that last game is similar manipulation. Ethos trying to use havo’s hammer against him was manipulative and scummy.

[Havo]

Havo where do you stand on Tchill?

Right now Tchill is a slight town lean for me.

Certain players I give a benefit of the doubt too on Day 1. Meaning I don’t worry too much about them being scum unless they do something really odd. Tchill and Chumba are both on that list for me. I like the way they play and know they are good players. And can almost always read them by Day 3. I know they are an asset as town so I don’t look to lynch them on Day 1 unless they do something really weird. Unfortunately Chumba has decided to feed town a shit sandwich on this Day 1.

There’s a few others here I feel the same about. I know that’s not the PC thing to say, but hey it’s how I’ve developed my game. I think Day 1reads are almost always garbage on Day 1 and I don’t put much trust in them until later. That’s exactly why I give my Disclaimer on Day 1and play that way. I’ve seen so many Day 1s and it’s 90% the same thing. Scum just chills and lets town take each other out because there’s always a few townies who think they’re Day 1 read is the shizzle and will push it. And about 1 out of 10 Times they’re right and think they can do it every time.

So I say if it’s in the first few IRL days and I can end the Day I will do it unless I hard town read that player. I would much prefer these games to start on Night 1 or have a pre game phase.

Right now I only heavy town read Joda and medium town read Chick.

I’ve seen Schadds scum game before and it was a lot like this. Very low poster, lurky and not really contributing. So he could easily be scum. NK15 is all over the place, he could easily be scum. Nero hasn’t been available. Ethos I think is probably town given his reaction to me. He could have easily pushed my lynch thru. I think scum is probably 1of the low content guys and then 2 of the medium content guys. Look how my wagon took off. Ethos pointed it out and was open minded enough to realize it was strange.

Anyway. Tchill slight town atm but yeah he could be scum.

[Not Known 15]

Havo what about Nero and HWS?
Will look if schadd lurking is usually scum.

[Chumba]

Unfortunately Chumba has decided to feed town a shit sandwich on this Day 1.

The only one feeding shit sandwiches are you and now tchill.

You blatantly misrep ethos and completely ignore his explanation.

You say I’m better than tunneling which is factually untrue. I wanted to get away from that on this account and if you are town I’ll be pissed at you for your play.

You also can’t acceot ethos supposedly calling you town (which he didn’t) but are ok with others doing it. The only difference is he did it in a negative way and everyone else did it in a positive.