Mini Normal 1988 (Endgame)

[Chumba]

And instead of responding to my argument, you attacked my character (calling me scummy), which is essentially the definition of an Ad-Hom argument.

[Chumba]

Oh man. That’s the fucking funniest thing I’ve evwr heard in mafia.

[Archwing]

you're welcome.

[Chumba]

That isn’t ad hominem though. I’m not saying you in real life are scummy. I’m saying you in this game are scummy.

[Chumba]

Keep your mind on your town game

So you know I’m town?

[Chumba]

instead of actually attacking the argument itself.

I’ve attacked and disproven all of your arguments. I even showed how your arguments make you more likely to be scum.

You literally have nothing on me

[Archwing]

That isn’t ad hominem though. I’m not saying you in real life are scummy. I’m saying you in this game are scummy.

... what?

in real life i am human, and belong to no mafia, werewolf, or any other "scum".
Ad-Hom refers to

disregarding, or bypassing

the argument on hand, and discrediting that said argument by "taking a stab" at the person making the argument. this has nothing to do with me being a serial killer in my spare time friend.

nice misrep btw on the town game. maybe if you knew your town game better, you could be more deceptive as scum?

anyways i'm out for the night. i'll catch up in a day or so-ish. i have a midterm on thursday so I likely won't post until after that

pedit;

your arguments

you literally have nothing on me

You seem pretty shaken up that I called you out for adhom, by the way. Like, really agitated.

[Chumba]

what?

in real life i am human, and belong to no mafia, werewolf, or any other "scum".
Ad-Hom refers to disregarding, or bypassing the argument on hand, and discrediting that said argument by "taking a stab" at the person making the argument. this has nothing to do with me being a serial killer in my spare time friend.

Please read this - https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... the_Person

[Chumba]

nice misrep btw on the town game. maybe if you knew your town game better, you could be more deceptive as scum?

That wasn’t a misrep. If that wasn’t what you were saying, why not clarify?

I’m probably one of the few people on this site who can perfectly mimic my town game as scum but thanks for caring so much about me.

[mozamis]

unvote, vote: TIAM

Its absolutely absurd to claim that nothing interesting or worth commenting on has happened...

thats -3 I think, in case anyone was wondering.

someone else mentioned this, i think?

But anyway, this was a dodgy vote. It may have been "absurd" for TIAM to say that, but it wasn't scummy, just not great town play.
Town would say -as i did, as lots of people did - "yeah, not really sure, but TIAM is doing fuck all".
Whereas Seph feels the need to GIVE a reason.
Scum.

[mozamis]

sirry, that was unclear -obviously its good t have reason to vote. But Sephs reason "absurd = scummy" was BS.

[BuJaber]

Chumba why aren't you voting Archwing? I don't need to wait for your flip to see you won that argument. If you're scum you're just better at debating. Archwing has no leg to stand on. VOTE: archwing

But for the record I don't like your reluctance to vote for him (even though I'm glad someone wants to focus on Roy finally). And that last paragraph of yours is terrible if coming from town. It's some weird combination of WIFOM & LAMIST.

Prism what do you think of Roy? If you didn't like TIAM'S wagon you could have voted for someone who actually had enough votes for them to be a realistic lynch.
Also it sounds like you're townreading both TIAM AND paradox. So your paradox vote looks fucking weird.

Nero's frustration feels fake to me. But also golden looks very shady so it's hard to argue with Nero.

Maybe I'm biased because I voted for him but I really don't like that the roy wagon seemed to be ignored and the focus shifted solely on TIAM. This began when they had about equal votes on them so it isn't just a case of TIAM has to go or we risk no lynch.


@moz - what do you mean by anti-buddying and how does the quote show that?

Can people comment on this; particularly prism and moz sincr day ended before you guys responded? Were you townreading paradox, prism? If so why, and more importantly why did you vote him? Also what do you think of him now?

Paradox's level of contribution is incredible. Solid town behavior right there.

Archwing >> Roy >> Paradox is my lynch pool.

[BuJaber]

Ah shit.. all 3 of them were on the wagon.. best we can hope for is 2/3 scum then. I hiiighly doubt all 3 would vote for TIAM if they were a scumteam.

[mozamis]

Anyways, I think its near impossible that all the players town reading TIAM are town.

Do you agree with that Moz?

do you mean: "there was scum on TIAM lynch"?
Maybe. Wouldnt be surprised if just oen though, scum like to avoid mislynch if pos, and it did go quickly, so "scum hesitation" - all the hallmarks of a hasty town mislynch -ok, my vote didny count, but i was up for it as much as anyone else. the guy did nothing town...
tldr: guess is one scummer on wagon.

[mozamis]

*NO "scum hesitation"

[Nero Cain]

Anyways, I think its near impossible that all the players town reading TIAM are town.

Do you agree with that Moz?

do you mean: "there was scum on TIAM lynch"?
Maybe. Wouldnt be surprised if just oen though, scum like to avoid mislynch if pos, and it did go quickly, so "scum hesitation" - all the hallmarks of a hasty town mislynch -ok, my vote didny count, but i was up for it as much as anyone else. the guy did nothing town...
tldr: guess is one scummer on wagon.

ummm ok? But sure, I'll buy one scum on the wagon. but that's not what I asked and I don't understand why you didn't really respond to the question that I asked. I guess though since you are pushing a "1 scum on, 2 scum off" thing then you

ARE

sort of

agreeing with me in a roundabout way. I think its very possible that TIAM was getting defended for the town cred.

Though your vote is confusing to me. If you think there are 2 scum off the TIAM wagon then there's a 50% chance to lynch scum in Prism, BuJaber, Leeoon, Lalendra but only a 20% chance in Archwing, Sephiroth, Roy Tagliaferro, TheGoldenParadox, Chumba. Wouldn't it make more sense FYPOV to lynch off the wagon?

(and yeah that's what I want to do)

[Prism]

I read that paragraph a few times TBH. I was never really sold on the intention behind it. And the fact that you had that in your pocket, ready to defend the town-cred attack, makes me suspicious, as if you had the next 5 steps planned out, like scum should do.

Right. It's arguably just scum WIFOM. That's obvious. The point is that I knew it would be perceived in this way, acknowledged it, and did it anyway.

This fundamentally changes how to read it. In the event I'm scum, it's me making a strategic bet that this argument will be persuasive, and I will be townread

despite

the negative perception incurred in my defense. This is very different than me straightforwardly defending TIAM hoping to get towncred off of his flip.

Arguing that I'm scum WIFOMing is rational. Arguing that I thought I'd get towncred for defending TIAM is not. I knew that regardless of what he flipped, people would find the base action scummy.

[Prism]

Can people comment on this; particularly prism and moz sincr day ended before you guys responded? Were you townreading paradox, prism? If so why, and more importantly why did you vote him? Also what do you think of him now?

I touched on this a bit earlier in the day:

Someone asked why I didn't vote Roy yesterday-to be blunt I thought most votes had already shifted off of him at the time of the Golden vote. Shortly after I made it I realized that was no longer the case but I saw he had a deluge of content I could sort through later. All of the following is after-the-fact justification because honestly I didn't think too much about it [Edited clarification: Voting Roy] at the time. It's not great but a Roy-townflip was a lot worse than a TIAM-townflip. Golden flipping town over TIAM would probably be a horizontal move in contrast, with either equal or better odds to flipping scum as Roy.

Re: Paradox I liked the one big post Paradox made initially but the second pass wasn't as good. The "thanks for scumclaiming" line was atrocious. Of the lurkers he was a better move for sure.

So my 2 scum reads think scum killed Luca because he suspected me but he didn’t actually suspect me. He said I could be sorted later.

Man if you guys tried to frame me you are going to be recked.

This is a lie. I never said anything about Luca's interactions with you, or even his read on you; I don't think they meant much at all. I explicitly described an entirely different reason for why I thought his flip made you more likely scum that had nothing to do with your interactions, but all about the kind of players scum would be aiming to shoot.

Annoying as fuck, isn't it? Even worse that when you say it it's generally in response to subjective interpretations of unknowable intent, whereas this one is straight up just negligence on your part.

[Prism]

These response were mostly based off a glancethrough earlier in the day. I'll tackle the meat of it tomorrow.

From what I remember Archwing's cut was really poor decisionmaking and he should have left it. Chumba pretending that Luca didn't scumread him at the time just because Luca wanted to save him for later, relying on his ability to read you more accurately with more content, in contrast is delusional at best.

#257, 259, #267. All of these are clear statements of suspicion. "The only reason I'm not voting Chumba" is a pretty good indicator that he would vote you if not for that one reason, which had everything to do with how his read will get more accurate over time, and not what his read actually was.

That's already more indepth than I should have gone tonight as I really need to sleep now.

[Chumba]

But for the record I don't like your reluctance to vote for him

I’m sorry you don’t like it. Despite the arguments, I’m still most certain on roy.

[Chumba]

This is a lie. I never said anything about Luca's interactions with you, or even his read on you

it's not a lie because you specifically said luca's flip points to me being more likely scum.

[Chumba]

#257, 259, #267. All of these are clear statements of suspicion.

257 is just him misrepping me, i don't really consider that valid suspicion, just shit play and given he flipped town I can confirm he played like shit this game.

259 is also a misrep, I took a hard stance on 3 people and was voting my top read. I mean sure he thinks I am doing scummy things, but that doesn't mean he thinks i am scum, and given the fact that he blatantly misrepped me I don't think anyone should put much stock in his opinions. He was wrong about TIAM and he is wrong and lied about me.

267 is just blatant omgus.

He may have had some mild suspicion on me, but I don't think he thought I was actually scum. Maybe I am delusional but he didn't have any real reasons to think I was scum, since all his suspicions were lies and misreps.

[Chumba]

I just want the record to show that if scum succeeds in lynching me today as part of their frame job, please oh please lynch roy/arc/prism once I am dead. The frame job points to arc/prism and well Roy is just scum.

that said, hopefully people are smart enough to realize this is a frame job since arch/prism have given shit reasons for suspecting me which i have basically disproven

[Lalendra]

I feel like Arch is a more experienced player than I am and if he's not scum, his arguments are really bad. I don't like the quote thing, nor do I like the fact that he's trying to argue calling someone scummy = adhom. Maybe it's just a difference in playstyle but in the Chumba v Arch saga, I'm inclined to side with Chumba.

@Chumba - you said that you don't want to explain to Arch why you want Roy dead because there's no point in trying to convince scum to lynch a scumbuddy. So convince me. I am willing to vote for him, he's null!scum for me right now, but what are your reasons?

[Archwing]

I feel like Arch is a more experienced player than I am

Lolno.