Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[LicketyQuickety]

I think Dunn is the most scummy player in the game after eddie.

Let's hear it

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

How has this never come up in any of the games I've played with you before?

Has this came up before ever?

Can you point me to other times you've talked about this method.

First time I remember using it is actually TM2012 White Flag, which is also the only game I can remember having played with you. I definitely haven't discussed this explicitly before for the same reason it may have been better to avoid having done so here.

@Shea, what do the numbers actually stand for? That's what he hasn't answered and that is what I think is the most important thing in his whole numbers thing.

Chance of being scum, probably, given the context.

Actually

VOTE: Marquis

Why the vote change? I mean, I kind of like it but I don't see quite what prompted it.

[Lycanfire]

It seems disingenuous to accuse me of not having a direction simply because the direction I have is different from yours, lycan.

I don't think it's unfair to ask if you're still for this.

My top scumread after Eddie is Dunnstral, based on PoE and the timing of his vote.

Explain this for me.

Alright then. I guess that a fair response and to be expected but I felt like it might get something out of you. Also more shade yippee! Like, I never said which team I took issue with. I took issue with CES-AD-nsg because it seems you're kinda ignoring evidence against that, as shown with you not taking in the fact scum have daytalk in this game and adjusting your AD-CES reads based on that.

Here's a thought: townies tend to think I'm scum (except lately, probably because I don't set out to be an outlier anymore). Scum shit themselves when they see my posts because they see a marble chiseled statue bleeding town and know God can't save them.

Dan said I was scum when I was pushing CES. I fell behind in the game and did a catch up post, during which CES didn't make a post. I explained my reads on everything transparently, poked where I thought I had to poke, encouraged behavior I thought was good and expressed others didn't hit the mark (Llamarble, Tchill) all at the same time.

This gives me a solid townread from Dan. Did he have bad reasons to townread me the second time around? Maybe not, but after the kneejerk of challenging my "reading past / feely bullshit" comment that was the pointy end of my case on CES, he went from apprehensive to

welcoming

of my presence. I was never challenged by Dan again. If I'm really so townie, maybe I ought to be directed onto who is scum and not given a pass for being a townie. I'm worth it, just saying.

So upon being told there is daytalk there was nothing for me to consider beyond that besides to shrug. That doesn't explain away the word choice used (I mean, it's not like they were saying "not town" which is a common complaint for people-they both used a made up word, "scumitude"). Doesn't explain the visible challenge CES and Dan had for one other over Marquis. It didn't explain why they townread each other. It didn't explain how CES could talk Dan into 'looking into it'. There's no evidence to the contrary of any of this: these things happened, and that's fact.

Saying there's evidence against in-thread communication is all fine and dandy, but the entire exercise isn't built on that premise. The final clincher was implying there was a nefarious purpose playing out in-thread (we should lynch marquis, no, we should not lynch marquis. no, we should definitely consider lynching marquis.) See it this way: I point out that two scumfucks are jogging together, and I say they were going to the supermarket. Anybody sneering at me saying I can't know that is severely missing the point that two scumfucks are jogging together. Also Marquis is a supermarket.

At this point I don't recall anytime you actually called me scum but I am reminded of something I wanted to ask you: if my "defense" of eddie was so bad, why don't you seem to suspect me for it? And shouldn't you also suspect eddie based on that?

I called you scum, but not with LQ (or Dan).

Previously I said you defended Eddie. You responded by saying it wasn't a defense of Eddie. You said you were engaging/questioning him, when about 27% of the quotes you responded to contained questions. 100% of those were meatballs. Your conclusion in the post in question... "My opinion of Eddie so far: he seems a bit off-color at points but it's nothing horrible." This is either a defense or a non-stance. Take your pick This conclusion was made after a long winded spoilered post, which you have to stop doing (also, don't vote in spoilers again), you provided commentary to Eddie's post, and after the second time someone "jumping you", you excused his blank vote on you and blamed it on Shea.

I never actually called you scum this post, I simply remarked that while I didn't think that a wolf doesn't talk to a wolf in 506, you were performing mental gymnastics to attribute blame for bad behavior that was not Shea's fault. Reading the Damn Thread™ is apparently shade. Not exactly the conclusion you ought to be coming to.

I have another grievance with the post where that was brought up: the "thoughts" feel like useless analysis. You kept saying "these aren't s v s" with out making any conclusions. Thinking about it just now it feels like leaving options open.

That's the opposite of leaving options open. That's putting real thoughts on paper and sending it through the post.

What exactly do I gain from this as scum?

If the answer is "looking townie", is this scumhunting?

Gamma:

how do you feel about being strung up with rope after an Eddie scumflip?

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright. Want me to fact check scum balking at you?
So you're saying Dan's shift to townreading you is scummy. What about your CES read? Also I think using "they said something weird together" is a bad scumtell but I can't remember the last time it popped up as one. As for the other associations I'm not sure scum would buddy up that hard? Plus we haven't seen Marquis' alignment yet so until we see a Marquis townflip you can't really find that shift to Marquis 100% scummy. I have a question for you: let's say it's you, Dan, and CES +2 randoms in 5p lylo. Which do you vote? Explain why.
You called me scum but not with LQ or Dan? I get that you said me and him weren't S v S, but what about LQ? As for defending Eddie I will admit that kinda does look like a defense taken out of context, but Imy thoughts were more of "he seems suspicious at poiints but not anything I think I'm willing to vote rn". Also, Ran has told me spoiler longer posts, and I'm going with the person I am closer to, which is Ran. And I didn't blame Shea, I said it made sense he would vote me given what Shea had just done. So instead of me blaming Shea for Eddie voting, I'm noting that eddie's vote is less pingy when put into context. As for the mental gymnastics, I wasn't doing any of those, and also why the hell wouldn't you state that it was mental gymnastics earlier? And honestly what makes you think 506 isn't scum theatre?
as for those thought you made, yeah you put the thoughts on paper, but there's no sticking your head out with speculation on what any of it might mean. The scum gain is that you can fake analysis that doesn't really mean anything and twist it to any conclusion you want if it suits you later.
And fuck no I'm not going to be lined up for a lynch. If Eddie is scum then I'll deal with any fall out but I'm sure as heck not getting turboed over it.

[Marquis]

Once again would prefer LQ lynch but Eddie is my next bet anyway. Don't think there's been any credible defense of the mastina thing either (from anyone much less eddie himself who ignored my case) and just feels like scumpartners left him out to dry with how scummy the posts were. Like it wasn't even a one off both series of posts from him fit the same scum mindset I expected.

kind of noticing only opposition to it is from people continuing to vote me? Still dislike preflip associatives but in this case it also makes total sense considering I'll admit it feels like I'm still in the position to get MLed today

That was confusing but what I mean is usually I look at what scum would be doing in this situation if the main wagon was scum but in this instance I see strong cases for scum both joining and scum chainsawing via me??? As in Eddie's mastina summon was scummy to the point of being l o l but I feel like scum would be in the position where they think a lot of MLs are available - even besides me there's not a lot of solidly locktown players and it feels like a lot of ppl are either blending into the background or being suspected by a few others :/

I don't really know what to do to fix that on my end other than keep waiting to actually see someone have that moment and that's taking my activity into account. And nothing has really changed w where I stand rn but then that's a given with me being away so much.

Also someone ask me questions or give me something to read bc I'm just straight up too exhausted to try and be proactive rn. Bbl tonight

[Marquis]

On [Eddie, Marquis, NSG] team, I want to mention that Marquis's #24 is weird and feels like he voted North to distance.

I think that is the team, and when I say that, I'm saying 'related to this team'. It's more of an interaction between Marquis and North, and if Eddie flips scum I want people to keep that post in mind so it helps their reads tomorrow. I've already explained why I think NSG may be scum with him.

I initially voted north because I thought she was way too awkward and tryhard for page 1
but tbh that read kind of faded into the distance (...as we both did)

[Marquis]

Also I've said it before but I would 100% not be in this game if I were scum.

Like I'll admit I maybe, maybe

might

have picked scum in another game if given the option but 12v3lynch2 is absurdly townsided and I wanted the ez carry option above all. Of course that's neg utility but rn I feel like I should be at least more obviously town than half the playerlist only hampered by inactivity, and even that's partially due to inactivity too

[Ranmaru]

Shea

: AD I had there for giving out a few town leans without really doing as much over time went on. I have Dunn as null, though. Dunn's been voting though, NSG has been holding her vote and has been posting around in other games and leaving this game in the back burner. I feel like since she saw people give her lock town reads she didn't feel the need to continue posting or trying as much. I am interested in why you scumread Dunn.

[Ranmaru]

I just want to see NSG and Action Dan check in and we should be good to end the day.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea

: AD I had there for giving out a few town leans without really doing as much over time went on. I have Dunn as null, though. Dunn's been voting though, NSG has been holding her vote and has been posting around in other games and leaving this game in the back burner. I feel like since she saw people give her lock town reads she didn't feel the need to continue posting or trying as much. I am interested in why you scumread Dunn.

he's been doing literally nothing else though.

[LicketyQuickety]

If not hammer happens soon, I think it's possible Scum are already on the wagon.

[Ranmaru]

Shea

: I just don't see any scum intent from Dunnstrals posts. I wouldn't bat an eye at his lynch as much as my town reads. Earlier on I had AD as 'I need more from him' and he hasn't really given me much more then just his initial impressions of the Eddie / LQ wagons. It just feels like AD is trying to be under the radar. Yet Dunn is present, just not doing anything while present.

[northsidegal]

making this post to commit myself to responding now.

[Ranmaru]

NSG

: I want you to respond to my #1821. Please tell me your top 3 scum reads, and top 3 town reads. (With reasoning)

I'm going to be driving home from work. Will post more when I get home.

[Marquis]

note to self to read ces, nsg, dav.

buttttttt not tonight I'm going to sleep now tho

[Thestatusquo]

fwiw I don't think your logic in 1821 follows at all.

if anything the fact that they think they made the wrong decision on tchill because they didn't think enough implies towniness.

[EddieFenix]

TBH, don't care about reading up.

FUCK ME IN THE ASS WITH A CACTUS
ELLI CHANGED THE RULES ON ME LIKE AN HOUR AGO, WHILE I WAS STILL READING STUFF, BARRING WHAT I JUST DID
BAN ME IF YOU LIKE BUT IF YOU DO YOU'RE A PIECE OF SHIT FOR CHANGING THE GOALPOSTS

Agreeing with this sentiment. -walks away-

[LicketyQuickety]

note to self to read ces, nsg, dav.

buttttttt not tonight I'm going to sleep now tho

TBH, don't care about reading up.

FUCK ME IN THE ASS WITH A CACTUS
ELLI CHANGED THE RULES ON ME LIKE AN HOUR AGO, WHILE I WAS STILL READING STUFF, BARRING WHAT I JUST DID
BAN ME IF YOU LIKE BUT IF YOU DO YOU'RE A PIECE OF SHIT FOR CHANGING THE GOALPOSTS

Agreeing with this sentiment. -walks away-

You two both suck something fierce.

[Postie]

RC says not to hammer until Wednesday because he has a major post he wants to make.

[Thestatusquo]

postie, how about you play the game you signed up for and tell rc to suck eggs?

[LicketyQuickety]

postie, how about you play the game you signed up for and tell rc to suck eggs?

How you gunna say I am dropping things when I say something that makes sense you completely fail to further the conversation? Like are you still Scum reading me? Why or why not? Otherwise it just looks like you are throwing shade honestly.

[Thestatusquo]

Like i'm willing to listen to rcs input and I'm willing to listen to his reads but I think him dictating entire large posts and dictating the pace of the day is too much.

[Thestatusquo]

postie, how about you play the game you signed up for and tell rc to suck eggs?

How you gunna say I am dropping things when I say something that makes sense you completely fail to further the conversation? Like are you still Scum reading me? Why or why not? Otherwise it just looks like you are throwing shade honestly.

I have no idea what this is in reference to.

[Postie]

Idk what I'm supposed to do; I'm about ready for the day to end. I've given my closing thoughts. If RC has extra stuff he wants to add then I don't see the problem with him doing that. It's not replacing anything I'm doing.

[Thestatusquo]

as I said, I'm willing to listen to rc, but I'm not willing to let him dictate the pace of play in a game hes not even playing. If he wants to make a post, make it. I don't see any reason for anyone to wait for him though.

RCs involvement is basically the only reason I'm wary of you fwiw. Regardless of how eddie flips I think both a bus and an aggressive push on a townie are things that are in RCs scum range.