Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[northsidegal]

my team always had you as town, if you're referring to that one "wavelength" thing i said then that was a misunderstanding that got cleared up pretty quickly.

I have no other questions besides this: Can you explain the misunderstanding? I don't remember you saying anything about a misunderstanding. Go more into this.

No, I don't think that I can.

[Ranmaru]

It just seemed like your team agreed with RC. (After postie mentioned RC's scum-read on me) Alright then.

[northsidegal]

i can tell you that mathdino mentioned it to me before postie had said anything, i think postie just ended up posting about it first.

[Ranmaru]

Alright. Please get to me about the reasoning for some of your reads then.

[Postie]

RC wanted me to post his townreads in case of hammer. They are Lycan/Davsto hardtown and CES slight town. I asked for an explanation but he just said gut so idk how helpful that is but there u go.

[Postie]

game of hers I linked

For reference

I noticed nsg is still considers herself newbie-ish in that game, so here's another more recent scum game so you can see how she's improved. The stuff she's done this game is still well outside of her scum range.

Also friendly reminder from both me and RC that nsg should be locktown

[Ranmaru]

Cheeky said the same thing. Yet I still was concerned about her disappearance. Which reminds me, where did RC get the idea that Cheeky supported the lynch???

[Ranmaru]

*On Screen play.

[Gamma Emerald]

TBH, don't care about reading up.

FUCK ME IN THE ASS WITH A CACTUS
ELLI CHANGED THE RULES ON ME LIKE AN HOUR AGO, WHILE I WAS STILL READING STUFF, BARRING WHAT I JUST DID
BAN ME IF YOU LIKE BUT IF YOU DO YOU'RE A PIECE OF SHIT FOR CHANGING THE GOALPOSTS

Agreeing with this sentiment. -walks away-

which one

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright. Want me to fact check scum balking at you?
So you're saying Dan's shift to townreading you is scummy. What about your CES read? Also I think using "they said something weird together" is a bad scumtell but I can't remember the last time it popped up as one. As for the other associations I'm not sure scum would buddy up that hard? Plus we haven't seen Marquis' alignment yet so until we see a Marquis townflip you can't really find that shift to Marquis 100% scummy. I have a question for you: let's say it's you, Dan, and CES +2 randoms in 5p lylo. Which do you vote? Explain why.
You called me scum but not with LQ or Dan? I get that you said me and him weren't S v S, but what about LQ? As for defending Eddie I will admit that kinda does look like a defense taken out of context, but Imy thoughts were more of "he seems suspicious at poiints but not anything I think I'm willing to vote rn". Also, Ran has told me spoiler longer posts, and I'm going with the person I am closer to, which is Ran. And I didn't blame Shea, I said it made sense he would vote me given what Shea had just done. So instead of me blaming Shea for Eddie voting, I'm noting that eddie's vote is less pingy when put into context. As for the mental gymnastics, I wasn't doing any of those, and also why the hell wouldn't you state that it was mental gymnastics earlier? And honestly what makes you think 506 isn't scum theatre?
as for those thought you made, yeah you put the thoughts on paper, but there's no sticking your head out with speculation on what any of it might mean. The scum gain is that you can fake analysis that doesn't really mean anything and twist it to any conclusion you want if it suits you later.
And fuck no I'm not going to be lined up for a lynch. If Eddie is scum then I'll deal with any fall out but I'm sure as heck not getting turboed over it.

Lycan you missed this

[ActionDan]

I don't think Eddie's flipping scum and I think he's resigned himself to be a mislynch.

I think there's been two arguments for scum eddie in this thread: 1) meta; 2) play. (perhaps sometimes conflated)

All meta cases I've seen, or meta arguments made in favor of scum!Eddie from the likes of Postie/Davsto haven't been sound. Postie's 1132 I'd call the foundation of this argument but I don't think you can draw a sufficient conclusion between the habits described therein (which I broadly agree with) and the behavior displayed this game. In this game even the fluffier posts tend to be longer (e.g., lots of the posts in the back and forth between LQ and eddie), there's more followup, and there's a fair number of reads and they come at an acceptable pace. As for 1427 I'd give credence only to the reference to the 8:4 nightless game since skimming it, I'd say it looks different than play here. At the same time, so does the scum hydra game. Again, I don't see how someone could draw a sufficient conclusion (or the accompanying "Dammit Postie, when you're right, you're right" sentence), but I can see how if you've developed a conclusion previously you could be tempted to confirm it, which it looks like happened there.

Chess kid has said that he shouldn't be an authority at meta reading eddie and that when he's been scum he's been scum from play in context of the game. On this angle I don't think his play has been particularly scummy though I do recognize that there are posts of his – to borrow CES's language (again ) – that don't say a whole lot and that have a low signal to noise ratio. I however don't think those sorts of posts were posted with malice, and I've generally been able to find the "signal" while understanding that the noise is a result of various pressures against the slot. I also think none of this is happening D2. I also have read certain posts as straight up town to me, though I highly doubt anyone else sees it the same way, for example 337 and 341 look genuine to me.

Anyway that's my take, and why I won't support his wagon. I don't think people like Postie/CES/Shea and even davsto are voting it in bad faith though. That also doesn't necessarily have to be the case with LQ/Lycan either (and I stress I still townread both of them), but their arguments for voting aren't as fresh in my mind.

I apologize to Ranmaru I don't think I'll ever get around to doing a comprehensive read list on the entire playerlist. But I also don't think that's necessary at all either.

[Ranmaru]

How does that make you read Postie and Davsto?

[Ranmaru]

Nevermind, you state that at the bottom. Just tell me who your top 3 scum reads are. I'll make a post later tonight.

[ActionDan]

Dunnstral/Marquis and I would state Gamma for lack and anyone else, but I don't feel comfortable giving a scum read there.

If I had to recheck my town reads I'd probably start with Postie/Lycan/Davsto. But first I'm looking into Marquis' latest posts and also looking over gamma. (I guess I should also humor mastin by looking over that case, I never did)

[Ranmaru]

Can you go into the reasoning of why you town read Postie and Davsto?

[MathBlade]

Votecount 2.13

EddieFenix(6)

~ Postie, Thestatusquo, Davsto, Cogito Ergo Sum, Lycanfire, LicketyQuickety

Marquis(2)

~ EddieFenix, Dunnstral

LicketyQuickety(2)

~ Marquis, Gamma Emerald

northsidegal(1)

~ Ranmaru

Dunnstral(1)

~ ActionDan


Not Voting (1): northsidegal

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-18 19:30:00)

[Dunnstral]

Why the vote change? I mean, I kind of like it but I don't see quite what prompted it.

Just feeling it I guess, it feels liek marquis ignores stuff in thread sometimes in favor of AtE

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral/Marquis and I would state Gamma for lack and anyone else, but I don't feel comfortable giving a scum read there.

If I had to recheck my town reads I'd probably start with Postie/Lycan/Davsto. But first I'm looking into Marquis' latest posts and also looking over gamma. (I guess I should also humor mastin by looking over that case, I never did)

Let's hear it: Why am I this lock scum for you. It doesn't make sense.

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

Town

What do you think of the reason I scumread you day 1?

Dunnstral answer this

Why did you scumread me day 1?

Well I thought you had joined the Marquis wagon. I was wrong though because you started it.

Dunn I still need you to respond to this

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

Town

What do you think of the reason I scumread you day 1?

Dunnstral answer this

Why did you scumread me day 1?

Well I thought you had joined the Marquis wagon. I was wrong though because you started it.

Dunn I still need you to respond to this

I mean, it was a mistake and it got cleared up so it's fine, I don't think it's scum play to just lie about something like that, plus I wouldn't expect you to play like that as scum, overall I feel like it doesn't matter much

[Gamma Emerald]

lol Dunn's scum
if he was town he'd be more critical of me for that, plus he kept dodging the question
VOTE: Dunnstral

[Dunnstral]

I'm not though

I didn't notice the question, on top of that I don't think you would do that as scum like I explained?

Why would I be more critical?

[Gamma Emerald]

You kept "not noticing", after a while it can't be explained away as that, plus I feel like you would be a bit more critical of it since it was a reasoning on you

[Thestatusquo]

reck posted a full read list. i'm presenting it here in a paraphrased form. Obviously I disagree with some stuff on it and am using it to supplement my reads rather than as the gospel truth. It's useful information for town to have though so I think I want to post it in full. It's not in any particular order.

SCUM | Dunnstral | Eddie | northsidegal | CES | Lycan | LQ | Gamma | Postie | Dan | Marquis | Davsto | Ran | TOWN

with the breaks being between nsg | ces and LQ | Gamma

Marquis:

believes he's legit busy because he follows him on snapchat (lol) and believes that hes trying when it would be easier for him to do nothing.

Ranmaru:

town for his earnest scum hunting and his flowing read progressions.

Postie:

he thinks postie is town because he thinks rc would be more likely to tryhard as town than scum here, and there are some other thoughts that I can't get into because they involve an ongoing game.

Dan:

he's seen dan in catchup mode as scum a number of times and he doesn't think this is dan scumcatchup. he thinks this is town dan trying to play from behind and similar to his thoughts on marquis he thinks we'd see a different tone in dans posts if dan were scumlurking here.

Eddie:

he wants to remind everyone that meta is garbage and that posties meta analysis is therefore garbage but says he independently scum reads eddie because he thinks him refusing to catch up and parroting gammas frustration with rules changes is the kind of thing he would expect from scum in this situation. He thinks eddie is scum who has given up and is trying to distance himself from as many associations as possible by not really interacting with anyone.

northsidegal:

didn't really understand why she was getting town read in the first place. Thought the early game had quite a few scum pings. he wants to contrast her recent posting of "oh sorry I'm lurking but don't worry I wouldn't do that as scum" is in pretty stark contrast to how dan and marquis have lurked because its more like the tone he would expect from a scum lurker as opposed to a town player who was behind.

Lycanfire:

doesn't really have a good handle on him as a slot but liked his pressure on nsg so he thinks hes a slight town lean.

LQ:

he thinks LQ is an actual crazy person and refuses to help me sort the slot.

CES:

he says he always scum reads ces, which is similar to my meta analysis earlier. he doesn't want him left in lylo. he wants to reiterate that meta is garbage and that my meta read is therefore garbage but wants to note that he was wrong about ces being scum in both the spinning paper and author mafia so that backs up my garbage point.

Dunnstral:

dunn has a whopping 48 post iso and if you dig deeper into it theres basically nothing there. theres no transparency on reads, there's shitty votes for lukewarm reasons. 1429 in particular is a really shitty and lukewarm reaction to davsto's eddie case. He doesn't like how he dicks around doing nothing until he votes eddie because its good enough for today. he never references 1429 again despite telling us that he was going to in order to decide if he was going to vote, then votes anyway without doing that.

Davsto:

he's the only other person in the game besides dan and ran who is earnestly trying to gamesolve.

Gamma:

some of D1 felt like a lot of fluff, but he likes his recent tone and attitude. his recent big 1815, arrives at a lot of conclusions that Reck shares which he thinks is more likely to come from a town mind set.

[Gamma Emerald]

You know what I think Dunn might just be that stupid but like
I still suspect him even without that part of things