Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

[Eddie Cane]

rb, why are you townreading awoo?

[Lexa]

anyone remember when i asked if anyone had played with cedrick before?

eddie town af

[Eddie Cane]

Pretty sure we got ourselves a textbook case of OMGUS right there. Can't handle the pressure very well, can you?

btw this reminds me I have some tells I think on mumble, I'll be able to sort this slot

[Lexa]

eddie who you scum reading so far in your readthrough

[Eddie Cane]

ok why is the lexa wagon getting so much momentum but my Q vote & minicase went nowhere

did I hit scum or something?

because your minicase was mediocre, but im surprised a page 3 case didn't get more sheeping because building wagons is pro town.

[Eddie Cane]

page 6 lrxa reads like when I was scum trying to interact with town mumble. it's like talking to a brick wall but that brick wall is calling you a cunt and screaming for the cops. dunno if that means much but it's funny

[Lexa]

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's rddir canr!

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Cedrick

lexa's speedwagon makes me iffy actually

haven't you literally said wagon speed is nai in games w me lol what's weird here

[Eddie Cane]

I'll continue from page 8 in a bit

[Mumble]

Can I double vote Lexa?

[Awoo]

holy shit and i was going to say "i dont want to play the game while the Q slot is still alive"

but now I actually mean it

VOTE: Eddie Cane this is my vote until the slot dies

[Lexa]

If you stop posting I'll allow it

[Mumble]

Awoo...stop posting.

[Eddie Cane]

ok why is the lexa wagon getting so much momentum but my Q vote & minicase went nowhere

did I hit scum or something?

I didn’t find your mini case that convincing.

ok why is the lexa wagon getting so much momentum but my Q vote & minicase went nowhere

did I hit scum or something?

It was a post that happened an hour or so ago, and pointed out that you naked voted me after I voted you, thus pointing out the OMGUS-factor.

But why do you keep saying omgus? You keep saying it like it means something. Omgus isn’t scummy nor does it only come from scum. I feel you are hiding behind a buzz word. I don’t find Lexa voting you strange. If anything I find your aggression fake and scummy.

Yes?

Lol no it isn’t. (This is about omgus being scummy)

VOTE: mumbles

mumbles push looks bad to me and omgus isn’t scummy. Mumbles did something mildly suspicious and got voted for it and it looks like he tried to put a townie spin on it. He should have known a reasonless vote hop on somebody was going to generate that kind of reaction. Lexa’s Reaction imo is normal

bad post

[northsidegal]

here's an interesting replace in.

catching up now.

[northsidegal]

lexa, was any / most of 303 just a copy of notes that you took as the game was going on? or was that entirely newly created? it seems to be to be the former.

[Eddie Cane]

no one has played with me before" implies "not an alt"

Just want to clear up that I am actually an alt. Nobody has played with me on this account was what I meant.

Is it a secret alt? If not, I would very much like to know it. I'm a relatively "meta" heavy player - I don't like to do in depth meta dives but I use it as a basis for a lot of my reads from memory.

Im actually going to make this public knowledge so no one can "townslip" this:

My first game was scum, and I was unable to post in the game due to the whole "alt detection" thing, but I was able to post in the scum PT pregame despite it.

what relevance does this have to absolutely anything?

EBWOP: disregard my last re: post timing, thought you were referring to a different post

As for voting reasons, they are what I said. You entered the game by jumping on a wagon without any game advancing content. That gets a vote everytime.

My defense is faltering! Grasps for straws, ensign!

So me and Alex did the same thing. Why not vote him. It gets a vote everytime.

"why me" defence, mumbles scumlean

why you.

Of being made the leading wagon?

See, this is basic psychology, something that I said or did struck a nerve. I'm inclined to think it was me voting you and making you the leading wagon. It's why you didn't really react strongly to NSG or rb, but you did to me.

I've got to do the dishes. Be back soon. Much love, Lexa.

oh more "why me" defence

we can lynch mumbles anytime

(yes im backreading the thread in reverse chronological order)

how are these scum tells and not just bad tells?

How is the age of an account important

Lots of people are new and good, lots of people are veterans and awful. bad metric never use

age of account is relevant to a degree. exceptions don't take away from the general fact that the more experienced you are the better you are on average.

read the last paragraph of 182 and first imagine that someone you know is a veteran player who's played multiple games before said it, and then imagine that a relatively newer player said it. isn't there a very different outcome depending on which angle you look at it from?

i'm deliberately being obtuse here because i'd rather not say what i'm looking for until cedrick answers.

good post

Cedrick is kind of weird in the sense that he interprets what voting means a bit differently from the rest of us. Is that scummy? no its just weird. I'm not lynching this d1 just because he treats votes with more weight then they actually have. And don't bother trying to discuss with him back and forth "i dont get it why would you hammer him?" or something else on his weird (but not scummy!) behavior to try to fake a buildup of suspicion before voting him, I will see through it.

^ written before rb switched votes
v written before rb switched votes

I don't particularly like either of the people voting him. Also what luca said about mumble +1, but we all need to see more of mumble/lexa before making better reads, 'cause like I said that sort of interaction is just going to serve to make both sides look scummy. +1 to cedrick for looking out for fake aggression, mafia does that for sure.

VOTE: mumble -- Q hasn't posted in a while I gotta stay current. This looks good so far

rb - is Lexa VS mumble TvT, SvT, TvS, SvS? Your posts make it hard to discern what you are reading, please comment on this.

why does you voting the beginner not surprise me

VOTE: Lexa
(putting the vote first kinda ruins the flow of my post, but I'll make the sacrifice for the sake of the vote counter)

I think Mumble came away from that argument looking a lot better than Lexa. tbh I found both initial votes slightly strange, but Lexa's was a reaction that only later got any justification, and it was fairly weak justification too. If I'm understand it right, their vote was for Mumble's weak entrance to the game, fair enough. But then they switched to Alex after that argument made Mumble look more towny, I guess? Lexa never said why, except they "can't see mafia being this obtuse". And the Alex vote is in spite of several other even weaker, naked-er votes in the game. Why did you not go after those posts, Lexa?

As for the OMGUS stuff, it can certainly be scummy in context, though I guess it depends on your definition of OMGUS and let's not have another semantics argument please. The point is, Mumble explained why Lexa's vote on him was scummy, and it made more sense to me than Lexa explaining why they voted him.

mumbles push looks bad to me and omgus isn’t scummy. Mumbles did something mildly suspicious and got voted for it and it looks like he tried to put a townie spin on it. He should have known a reasonless vote hop on somebody was going to generate that kind of reaction. Lexa’s Reaction imo is normal

That's not my interpretation. I see it the exact opposite, that Lexa did something suspicious and is trying to put a townie spin on it. Particularly the poorly reasoned hop to Alex felt like scum with bad intentions.

Other things:

VOTE: Cedrick

lexa's speedwagon makes me iffy actually

Does it make you iffier than the Havo speedwagon?

Im actually going to make this public knowledge so no one can "townslip" this:

My first game was scum, and I was unable to post in the game due to the whole "alt detection" thing, but I was able to post in the scum PT pregame despite it.

How is that a townslip? If anything it would be a scumslip, or am I interpreting what you're saying wrong?

PEDIT: oh jesus this is what I get for walking away for a half hour while writing this post. I don't have time to read the last page and a half right now, I skimmed it and I don't think anything changes what I just wrote out.

good post

but I can't really understand that stance.

I’ve already explained my stance. What’s not to understand?

Well, if you take '

understand

' by it's literal meaning then I do

understand

, I just can't relate to that mindset.

I mean, you don't want to vote him as you don't scumread him, but you'd want to immediately hammer him given the chance to basically teach him a lesson, regardless of what his alignment might be?

It feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

your first post was good. this is eh though with it being your only content postmortem.

VOTE: Mumble

So far, mumble, as well as a couple others, have been rubbing me the wrong way reading their posts. Not sure on a lot of things at the moment, but this seems like a better idea than havo at the moment

cuhlassic

nsg i have higher expectations of you

what's the issue with what nsg is doing so far? one of my stronger townreads at this point in the thread and creating good content. what higher expectation could u possibly have, voting Q and mumble?

You’re scummy for trying to use non game related things like they are relevant.

cftwr

North i want to hear you talk about the other people in the game so I can see if you're doing something instead of just justifying really hard "I am town see my thought process even though its pretty irrelevant since 5 pages ago"

idk why suspicious people have such a thing for cedrick?

so what about cedrick's posts do you townread?

NSG, your theory relies on Cedrick and Lexa being scum partners. Not only is it way too early to get worked up about potential scumteams, don't you think scum would be mindful of how they communicate with their partners early in the game? I can't imagine a situation where Cedrick and Lexa have a conversation in the scum pt about how they both play on a different site, and then Lexa goes straight in the thread and greets him as a '

fellow off-siter

'. It was an interesting and worthwhile observation, but putting so much stock in it as you have done seems ridiculous to me.

As for Cedrick being too experienced to make the 'pre-game' comment - I agree with rb that, regardless of his experience, there is no way to know if he genuinely intended to deceive with this comment. I'm pretty sure I've had a scum game in the past where the game had started before I even had a chance to post in the pt.

...did i miss something? i guess after my catchup i'll see cedrick's posts. what pre-game shit?

Struggling reading most of this day. Maybe it’s just late but I read and don’t seem to retain any of it. Or maybe it’s just that none of it is sticking out to me yet. But that’s very typical Day 1 for me.

Mumbles seems sketchy but isn’t that always Mumbles?

Luca seems intentionally neutral.

just snipping this of the posts, but havo town.

=why you townread awoo so storngly please.

[Lexa]

lexa, was any / most of 303 just a copy of notes that you took as the game was going on? or was that entirely newly created? it seems to be to be the former.

Dunno how you'd get that impression but no, that was my train of thought going through the game started after my post at 301(?)

[Luca Blight]

Havo's disclaimer in 7...hmm. By definition it can't be alignment indicative but could it imply something about his state of mind that he felt the need to post the disclaimer in the first place? Inherently it has to lean town because while both alignments want to notify the game of their intent here, scum can't be as willing to get policy lynched. If future posts hold coherent with a town mindset this slot probably sorts town.

The more pressing inference is of his playstyle, the severe disagreement with D1 as a concept and the refusal to give reads suggests that Havo either is unconfident with or doesn't believe in independent behaviour as reliably indicating alignment and prefers either role results or flip associations to sort people. If Havo starts attempting to sort people based on behavioural reads that could be a scum indication.

This whole paragraph is just meaningless filler dressed up to look nice.

How can something that is NAI '

inherently lean town

'? That makes no sense.

"

If future posts hold coherent with a town mindset this slot probably sorts town

" - genius. So basically if he looks townie he's probably town. This has nothing to do with Havo's opening post.

Bolded

- Why mention what you believe could be a scum indication in the future instead of just waiting to see if it happens? You've ruined your own theory, as if Havo is scum you've just alerted him as to what he shouldn't do to in order to avoid a scumread on you. I also think this is complete BS - I don't see how not liking day 1 can't align with sorting people based on behavioral reads? I don't see how anyone can go through a game without sorting players based on behaviour at some point.

Riggs at post 26 still feels weird. Yeah it's only page two but to this point the game is already out of RVS with a 3 vote wagon on Havo and two previous votes sitting on mumble, plus a lot of relevant posts related to Havo's principle. Entering by ignoring all of that is...weird...but I'm not certain if it's alignment indicative. Have to imagine it signifies either cautious mafia or busy/unaware town. Could be a relevant marker but it seems more likely that he would have read the 25 posts than not.

Huh then he follows up at 30 by voting Havo after prompting by zito. Seems to support both narratives, either not noticing the wagon or not wanting to join until prompted. Possibly self-conscious? Feeling awkward for not having joined or commented on the existing wagon?

What's with all this over-analysis? It feels like you're trying too hard. 26 is not weird; it's a standard RVS opening. I've seen it happen in pretty much every game that people, myself included, will enter the game late and make a completely unrelated RVS vote before they've even bothered to read anything. It's NAI.

Your point regarding 30 is fair enough.

fitz 55 seems fine on the surface but that's kind of the problem I have with it, very surface level reasoning. Seems more interested in pointing out things to use as ammunition rather than thinking about why that thing exists. Note to check future posts for this degree of thinking.

I don't see why it's surface level - he's questioning your contradictory stance. How can he get a deeper read until you've explained yourself?

Right so Mumble is being a dick while pushing me in 132/135/137, sure fine, whatever. It's posts like 140 that really support the aggro scum theory: it's Mumble who comes up with the idea that I'm voting him (and not alex) for thinking that they're scum. Except that at no point did I suggest he was scummy, my vote and follow up was entirely about getting him to post content. It's Mumble who creates my supposed mindset and it's Mumble who uses that creation as a means to attack me for voting him (and not alex). He's manipulated the situation and filled in gaps with his own ideas in order to put me on the defensive and discredit my vote on him. Like there's some behavioural considerations that he might be town but fuck that, this is scum. Looks a lot less obtuse and a lot more manipulative with a clear head looking at it.
VOTE: Mumble

Wait, you're voting him primarily because he thinks you scumread him based on your vote? This seems like

you're

the one being a bit manipulative here - voting someone for anything other than a pure RVS vote implies some kind of scumread and seems a fair assumption on Mumble's part. I don't particularly like Mumbles myself at this point but your reasoning here is weak.

Note to self, 1v1 Luca. 178 suggests that he's having thoughts and engaging in some way but it's all surface level, need to see the thought process.

These '

notes to self

' are cringeworthy as hell. Can't you invest in a notepad or something to store your notes privately?

My 'surface level' reads were probable due to having only skimmed the thread as I already explained. Why the desire to 1v1 me? This just seems LAMIST.

Riggs is back at 227 with a curious vote on mumble, it's now the second time he shows up and makes a relatively empty post onto one of the main wagons. It does seem to provide some light support for the cautious mafia theory since it's impossible to argue he's unaware here. It's also curious to me because it seems like an awkward way to enter into a wagon on your scumbuddy, very low committal when your justification is "has been rubbing me the wrong way". Comfortable putting riggs in my scum pile but I'm also thinking that riggs isn't scum if mumble is and if mumble is town riggs is scum. Don't think town riggs impacts mumble's alignment yet.

How do you imagine Riggs would have entered the wagon if he was Mumble's scum buddy?

Luca's 244 is a good look. Valid arguments and reasoning in response to NSG's case on Cedrick, but doesn't use it as a segue into a vote or case on NSG.

Another light compliment followed by light shading. Why would I vote or make a case on NSG when I've liked her opening for the most part, as I already said?

Alexcellent is lock town for me. 276 is a really strong thought process, a very natural read devlopment and a coherent mindset justifying their read on me. 278 is even better, a very high level reasoning trying to get at numberq's mindset when posting. Straightforward, rational, no exaggeration or misdirection, I would be shocked if this flipped scum.

They are decent posts from Alex, but lock town already? It doesn't seem to align with your over-analytical style to write someone off as definitely town based on two posts on D1.

[Lexa]

I do that in most games i play in, helps me sort people on later days

[Eddie Cane]

So my thoughts on the whole Lexa thing -

She likes Awoo's case on numberQ, votes for numberQ, but then shortly after abandons that endeavour in a kneejerk reaction to Mumble's vote? When I was initially skimming, I figured dropping a vote on Lexa right after Mumble would be good for a laugh and to see how she reacts to more pressure. Don't really like the 1v1 between Mumble and Lexa. I don't understand the anger there on Lexa's part, but then I don't really have any meta to go on with her. Maybe worth checking out some of her old games. But I don't like 123, trying to dismiss pressure I generally find to come from scum more than town IMO. And I don't like the 163 jump from Mumble to me. As Awoo mentioned it does appear like Lexa comes across as being cornered into that vote. I don't really like leaving Mumble with the reason that scum wouldn't be so obtuse. Sounds like a phony excuse to get out of a vote that you regret. And moving to someone that's basically inactive doesn't seem to serve much purpose.

I just dislike that Lexa appears to have viewed the most scummy thing in the game to that point as being a few empty votes and it makes me think she had no real reads or nothing to gon before. Granted its early still but I felt more relevant things happened than Mumble and I voting her. And the way she reacted to the votes is pretty bad. I'm keen to see how she responds to her wagon though.

I feel like Mumble vs Lexa is TvS, so the current wagons are interesting.

alright post. i'm going ot post more about both mumble and lexa when i'm done catching up i think.

There's no way all these newbies are newbies good lord who am I playing with.

VOTE: Cedric

this.

I like when you call me Papa.

For now I'm content to wait and see what Lexa does with the huge ass wagon on her (?).

Mumble is just a ball of snark and I don't really have a read on him one way or another.

spoiler alert: this is how mumble reads should be

Luca, Havo and Papa:

What are your reads on Lexa and Mumble?

Mumbles is usually scummy to me. I have a hard time reading him. No difference here.

Lexa just doesn’t give me a scum vibe. But no one has as of yet.

sigh.

UNVOTE:

doesn't post for ages and comes back unvoting 5 minutes after a massive wall and moving on to other things.

Papa zito I don't think you are actually having fun in this game from reading your posts and behavior (getting prodded). You better start funtelling fast if that's your claim.
====================================================
NOW I WILL ANSWER NSG!!!!!!!!!

can you clarify why what he's doing is scum searching for reasons and not just sorting low content slots? from what i understand you're saying that the answers to his questions don't actually help him to sort people, but i didn't really get the same feeling looking over his posts and i'd like to hear this in more specifics from you. what i would levy against numberq is asking questions that he doesn't care about the answers to, not whose answers are meaningless.

Good catch on the "asking questions without care of the answers", I didn't specifically notice that.

I believe the intent of these posts is (throwing suspicion/scouting out mislynch targets) because of the attitude and language he uses with respect to these slots. I will demonstrate below.

In fact this ties right in with what you said about asking questions without care for the answers, because the true intent is not to SORT but rather (throwing suspicion/scouting out mislynch targets), as answers would help sort.

Taken from 260

(Lexa and Alex are anagrams of each other, scumteam confirmed)

Unfunny forced humor calling a low content (At the time) slot scum.

Kind of null to me. He's making some relevant observations, but that's pretty much all they are.

I'm not seeing any real analysis

from his posts.

His read on rb in 178 is especially hilarious

- he says rb's posting is very surface level, but

I haven't seen any better from Luca himself

in his 4 posts.

Is this how you talk about a slot that is "kind of null"? Throwing suspicion (1).

Bold part is from me, what makes the observation worthwhile if it's not worth putting stock in? How much stock is the limit before it starts getting ridiculous?

I've already expressed my concerns, this line is 100% trash just asking questions for its own sake.

Taken from 261

(On fitz' reaction to rb asking the entire game about thier read on luca)
Why are you asking about this post over everything else in the game?

But seriously, what are you hoping to gain from rb answering this?

Something about this posts feels weird, I'm going to copy Awoo's case against me and say fitz is asking a lot of questions so he looks town. I'm having trouble putting a scumhunting mindset behind most of his posts so far, 254 is just the most stand out example that caught my attention. 55 is somewhat of an exception, but it's only justifying a vote he already placed.

"I'm having trouble putting a scumhunting mindset behind someone with 6 posts, 4 of which are from RVS wagon and 1 is a V/LA announcement"
"I'm having trouble townreading a null slot therefore its a scumread"

This is not a town thought process. It's hard to really point to things specifically but this is really my point about the whole "searching for reasons to scumread people rather then sort" thing: He's already calling them scum before he's sorted them!
============================================
Alex hasn't posted? He's scum. Haha jk just being ironic .
Fitz is V/LA since RVS? He's scum. I just can't see town asking a question about something strange, smh.
Luca has only 4 posts? He's mostly null but like you know i cant really town read him like you know he isnt really that town you know? Yeah.
============================================
"Your weakass shade is shady"
- fitz

I cant hold back anymore this is my vote until he dies!!!!!!! I'm sorry mumble! I-I can't do this anymore!!!! I have to be true to myself!!

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VOTE: numberQ

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towny, but bad case. too confbiasy

I like that case, and I'll hammer anyone of Mumble/numberQ/Lexa right now

...why

That was before I ISOd you. Hence change in that read.

So what was it that made you strongly scumread me prior to ISOing me?

Poe...you weren't among the people I was considering town. I still needed to give you a closer look. So Lexa having you as a scum read was not something I was opposed to at that time pending said closer look.

who was town before? because i am having trouble getting solid townreads atm. strange place to be at.

@mod, please replace me

I feel shitty doing this but some real life issues have arisen recently and I'm not able to play mafia right now. Sorry, everyone.

oh, i'm me

I think he's got the best chance to flip scum atm.

You should vote him too!

zito, what's your lexa read rn? scum, right? would you do that if cedrick won't happen? not that it won't but if it ends up busting.

oh hey eddie

-_-

anyone remember when i asked if anyone had played with cedrick before?

eddie town af

why is this relevant

Awoo...stop posting.

lol

[northsidegal]

oh, numberq replaced out before he could answer me.

[Eddie Cane]

i'm somewhere like here rn

{rb, zitmaster9000, NSG}
{Mumble, Luca, Havo, Alex, Awoo}
{Cedrick}
{GNR, Fitz}
{Lexa}

[Eddie Cane]

nsg, wanna do something "fun"

[northsidegal]

could you explain that fitz placement? is that just in relation to lexa's slot? because i've got fitz as kind of confidently town here – i had him pegged as scum really early on day one in the last game we played together and so far this isn't feeling like that in the slightest.

pedit – sure, why not?