Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

[Almost50]

VOTE: Thor

Excuse me!!!!! Thor wasn't even in you 5-players lynch pool. What gives???

[Almost50]

Do you have issues with people scumreading your slots in general?

If they had good reasoning, or even acceptable reasoning then NOT AT ALL.

However, being pushed by silly arguments and/or false assumptions and misreps I usually DO have a problem.

[Espeonage]

Ok, what changed from your outside scumreading on your slot to move all your leans to nulls?

[Espeonage]

Laser Guy is probably scum

This actually needs explanation because that is my strongest townread.

Why? All he's done is buddied thor from what I can see.

He didn't get sucked in to the skitter v Thor shitfest and has been calling it out as such.

[Almost50]

Ok, what changed from your outside scumreading on your slot to move all your leans to nulls?

I discovered my slot was town. Duh! It doesn't make anyone SCUMMY for having voted BuJaber, but it makes it likely that there was scum on my wagon and I can't decide which one yet.

[Espeonage]

I just don't get why play that you liked, you now don't like because of people's reads on your slot.

[Dr Fanta]

Blatant misrep? You were townreading skitter but due to a readslist that you didn't agree with created a whole pre-flip scum team. Show me where the misrep is.

Guys.. is wilky actually this daft or is does he just play dumb when he's scum?

-Pepper

[Almost50]

Why do you ALWAYS torment me with your .. erm.. not getting what I say EXPLICITLY.

If my slot was SCUM, then it would be likely that my wagon was formed by 4 TOWN players, since AT LEAST ONE SCUM TEAM would not have been on me (the team I belonged to).

Now I DIDN'T KNOW BUJABER'S ALIGNMENT (That's MY alignment) at the time, so I was SRing the slot, and consequently Town LEANING those who voted it (not an explicit TR bc the opposing scum team could have still voted the slot, but it significantly reduced the probability of there being a scumster on the wagon still because either 25% or 50% of the remaining scums were not on the wagon).

If BuJaber had got lynched and flipped I would have looked back more closely on the wagon all the same, and now that I KNOW the slot is TOWN, it's the same thing (as if it was lynched and flipped) and hence I AM reevaluating.

4 votes on Mafia would come from a pool of 7 T + 2 WW
4 votes on WW would come from a pool of 7 T + 3 Maf
4 votes on Town would come from a pool of 6 T + 3 Maf + 2 WW

DO THE MATH.

[Espeonage]

In what world do you expect no scum to be on a four man wagon on scum in jungle republic?

It's multiball.

Don't fun over your game with low percentage chances. You and I should both know that, does everyone in the game targetting the same person not ring a bell to you.

Don't be lazy.

[Almost50]

Early on D1 scum are less likely to pile on any wagon at all. Both scum factions would be afraid of pushing one of the other faction, and especially so the Mafia (since only the WWs have a kill). If BuJaber was a WW it WOULD have been likely all 4 on the wagon were Town bc Mafia would wait to join in late (more likely in the 4th/5th/6th slot) and also late in the sense of "closer to deadline", so they don't appear like they're pushing it.

If BuJaber was Mafia then it's more likely a WW was on the 4-palyers wagon, but only one.

Since Scum didn't know either, then I would say Mafia are less likely to have been on the wagon still, while it is more likely to have had a WW on it.

THE BLOODY QUESTION IS WHICH ONE? And I don't know the answer to that, so everybody is null until further notice.

Now you may continue to converse with yourself here, cuz I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to a friggin' brick wall, just like it was in our previous game (and THANK GOD you're not a Vig in here and I'm not a BG, or you would have shot exactly the one townie I decided to protect who ALSO was the Mafia target, resulting in my kill, raising suspicion on them, helping the fake claimed RB shade another Townie, and outing yourself on the very next day, resulting in a total of 4 town deaths).

Mate, I would be hard SRing you now if I didn't see your play in that game first hand. You REALLY need to stop tunneling and start reading and evaluating stuff. Like, if you're scum here you're a likely NK (if you're Mafia), likely investigation target (if you're a WW), and if you're Town you're a detriment to Town regardless because you're likely to BOTH draw the NK AND the investigation, let alone the (mis)lynch if you're still alive in 2 days.

Sorry to bring back the memory of that game, but really .. you need to chill.

[skitter30]

@Thor: I think I'm just going to ignore you for a bit, no offense.

--------

Montosh, maybe towns bc they haven't pinged, but I kinda glaze over Montosh, however was scum last time I didn't really read their post properly, I think that says more about me though

His posts actually feel real to me this time; they like express nuanced thoughts that just didn't exist in his scumgame. There his entire game was IIOA. Here he's actually providing new/unique insights.

174 looks like a slip. skitter is right in regards to that in 181.

Yeah the fact that he got that beef was specifically a *wolf* (and not just generic scum) was really weird.

Ok Thor and skitter need to shut up, it's getting anti town. skitter had the right idea to put it in a spoiler.

Sigh, I'm trying .....

-------

I'm town in this one

Is there like a way for you to demonstrate that or ...? Cuz as far as I can tell, you're playing the *exact* same way.

-------

Ok, what changed from your outside scumreading on your slot to move all your leans to nulls?

I discovered my slot was town. Duh!

It doesn't make anyone SCUMMY for having voted BuJaber, but it makes it likely that there was scum on my wagon and I can't decide which one yet.

Tbh this feels more like something you feel like you have to say rather than something you actually believe. Like the bolded feels posture-y and fake.

------

Blatant misrep? You were townreading skitter but due to a readslist that you didn't agree with created a whole pre-flip scum team. Show me where the misrep is.

Guys.. is wilky actually this daft or is does he just play dumb when he's scum?

-Pepper

I mean, his point made a lot of sense to me so like maybe you could clarify what exactly you think he's not getting?

[Almost50]

Tbh this feels more like something you feel like you have to say rather than something you actually believe. Like the bolded feels posture-y and fake.

Right! So how would you go about it given the hypothetical situation you subbed into a game where your slot was heavily SR'd only to discover it's actually a town slot? More to it, how would YOU respond to that question if you were in my feet?? Teach me, please.

[Espeonage]

tbh I'd ignore it and not be honest about my reads from before replacing in.

[skitter30]

Tbh this feels more like something you feel like you have to say rather than something you actually believe. Like the bolded feels posture-y and fake.

Right! So how would you go about it given the hypothetical situation you subbed into a game where your slot was heavily SR'd only to discover it's actually a town slot? More to it, how would YOU respond to that question if you were in my feet?? Teach me, please.

Idk. I don't really like replacing into games for like that exact reason tbh. I do know that it sounds fake to me though.

Tbh it might just be your posting style - like the random capital words and the exclamation posts make your posts sound really artificial to me in gneeral, but this one seems worse than normal. But like the fact that you aren't exactly/entirely disagreeing with me is also doesn't feel quite right? Like your answer isn't 'no I didn't do that' so much as 'but how else can you answer that question?' and like I don't know if a response to that question inherently always feels faked.

Like the fact that you're making such a big show about how your reads changed upon replacing in and discovering your slot is town feels just like ... not real? Like a show I guess is a good way of describing it? More like something you knew you'd have to do if you replaced into a widely scumread slot so you're going through the motions? Idk if I explained that well.

[Espeonage]

Calling the slot you are replacing scummy used to be one of the highest success rate wikitells but they redux'd the wikitells portal so I can't pull it up. It was named after someone though but I can't for the life of me remember who.

I believe the mentality was that people who replace a scum slot feel the need to address the scumminess of the slot rather than just playing and denotes a strong survivalistic mentality and is basically a pressure that town replacements don't feel which is why it almost never happens from town.

[Espeonage]

Thor may be able to help here.

[Almost50]

tbh I'd ignore it and not be honest about my reads from before replacing in.

So, you're saying being honest makes me look scummy? If that's what you're saying then I really have nothing more to say.

@Skitter: So, you don't know how to do any other way, but it's still fake to you! And what capitalization? You bolded a certain/specific phrase that had no capitalization. Now you're going to tell me that's not what you were taking about??

What if I told you you response in 413 actually feels excessively fake to me? Because it does. You prematurely launched an attack that you didn't actually plan carefully, and received an unexpected response that put you is a disadvantage so you're fumbling for what to say and grasping at straws.

I hope you enjoy my fake and artificial vote:

VOTE: Skitter

[Espeonage]

I'm saying that there is no reason to reference it to distance yourself unless you have a need to survive.

[Almost50]

denotes a strong survivalistic mentality

Would you kindly point me to what exactly gave you the impression I was being survivalistic? Because the way I see it I haven't even bothered to respond to accusations made towards my slot before I replaced in.

But let me

hypothetically

assume that I somehow was being survivalistic. So? You think a Townie should lie down and die? Ok, let's take the hypothesis one step higher? Did it ever occur to you that I might be the Seer? Do you feel the Seer (being the only TPR we have in this setup) would go "Oh, well.. shucks.. I can eat rope on D1 if that's what they want"?

So, while I do not see how I was survivalistic in the first place, I also do not see how trying to survive earns me a scum read.

You're starting to sound like Skitter here.. he wanted me to say "I didn't do it" when all he said was "this sounds fake", and I can't for the life of me understand how a simple Bart Simpson phrase like "I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything." would have looked better than asking him to show me how he could have handled the situation differently.

You're both arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, and while I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I saw that town!you can actually be like this, Skitter (in that same game) had much better reads and better arguments.

[Almost50]

I'm saying that there is no reason to reference it to distance yourself unless you have a need to survive.

So what "fake" reasoning should I have given for my reads? And I say "fake" because you obviously don't/didn't want me to tell the truth. Or do you think I should have also faked my read list??

[Almost50]

@Espeonage: I explained it in numbers and percentages already. I explained why it's more likely to have scum on town than it is to have scum on scum. If you don't see it still then that is your problem I guess. *Shrug*

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Thor

Excuse me!!!!! Thor wasn't even in you 5-players lynch pool. What gives???

I just want him lynched

And that's the ahmished tell

[Not_Mafia]

Amished*

[Almost50]

And that's the ahmished tell

What is? What post??

Also, @everybody: THIS is the game I'm referring to in my conversations. It should make a good read for you all, since it included me, Esp, Skitter, Montosh and N_M all in the same game. Montosh & N_M were Scum there, while I, Esp & Skitter were Town.

My main request is that you all go ISO Skitter and compare his arguments to those he is using here and see if there's a significant difference. I won't even say "reads" because we don't have any flips here yet.

You can also compare N_M's play in that game to this one and see if you agree/disagree with me, and while at it also ISO Esp and compare to his play here. ISOing me and Montosh is an optional bonus if you like, but it's Skitter that I do want you all to look at first. Any takers?

[Espeonage]

I have long been a proponent of sometimes you need to let yourself be lynched as town and there is no shame in dying if it removes a barrier to the rest of the game. When I am town (especially vanilla) I am inherently expendable, that's what it means to be in the uninformed majority.

That doesn't mean you lay down and die, you statistically know that everyone else has a greater than zero chance of being scum, but you don't need to stay alive for as long as possible to win. It's a fundamental difference between town and scum, and even more important a distinction in multiball where scum are scumhunting as well.

Honestly my main issue is you feeling the need to defend yourself upon replacing in while the wagon on your slot was deteriorating. I'm the only person voting you right now for example. People tend to give replacements a free ticket which is another reason why Amished is so effective (thanks NM).

Especially when given how scummy your previous incarnation was.