Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

[Almost50]

Well then, I think we need to agree to disagree here. I don't see the

need

for me to eat rope just yet, and I think I'm better off eating a bullet for the town (I'm usually a hard lynch, but I've been quite popular as the N1 NK of late, and I'd like to keep it that way). Like, the day I'll accept being the D1 lynch is the day I (a) roll Jester, or (b) see a TPR or more inadvertently outing themselves that ending the day early looks like the town's best option.

[Almost50]

@Esp: Btw, have you tried to remind yourself of Skitter's town play and compare it to this game, or do you intend to spend the while day arguing with me and only me?

[skitter30]

tbh I'd ignore it and not be honest about my reads from before replacing in.

So, you're saying being honest makes me look scummy? If that's what you're saying then I really have nothing more to say.

@Skitter: So, you don't know how to do any other way, but it's still fake to you! And what capitalization? You bolded a certain/specific phrase that had no capitalization. Now you're going to tell me that's not what you were taking about??

What if I told you you response in 413 actually feels excessively fake to me? Because it does.

You prematurely launched an attack that you didn't actually plan carefully, and received an unexpected response that put you is a disadvantage so you're fumbling for what to say and grasping at straws.

I hope you enjoy my fake and artificial vote:

VOTE: Skitter

I was ACTUALLY going to write my post LIKE THIS to demonstrate what I was talking about wrt to the RANDOM CAPITAL WORDS and the EXCLAMATION POINTS but I decided I didn't need to go that far, but APPARENTLY I do!!!!!

YOUR posts are often written LIKE THIS and since I equate CAPITAL LETTERS with SHOUTING it makes all of your posts seem AWKWARD to me and stilted just like in general.

Your vote is OMGUS-y and bad and you just feel like way over-defensive and are making a big show about how surprised you are at actually being town and it all just feels fake and not real. Idk how to say that better.

bolded: Like why is what I said 'premature'? Why do you think that this is something that is 'planned' at all? I'm just like telling you why I don't like your posts. Why was your response 'unexpected'? Why was I 'disadvantaged?' Like all of these words just feel like inane buzzwords to brush away my point?

I'll concede that it might look like I'm 'fumbling' a bit because it's gut and I try to articulate my gut instead of just proclaiming 'this is bad' without any further explanation, and sometimes it takes a bit to find the words I want. I disagree that I'm grasping at straws that your posts feel fake.

[Espeonage]

@Esp: Btw, have you tried to remind yourself of Skitter's town play and compare it to this game, or do you intend to spend the while day arguing with me and only me?

I'm pretty happy with skitter as town. I don't agree with all her stances but I think the slot is town. I pretty much never do meta. NM here is an exception because of how little there is to use.

As for interactions with other people, sure, but considering you feel the need to write mini essays to one line responses I don't think I'm going to get much of a chance until there is direct interaction from someone else.

[Almost50]

@Skitter: Well, you never objected to THAT in Stack The Deck, and I'll give you ONE EXAMPLE of you interacting with me DIRECTLY in response to a POST where I used THIS SAME POSTING STYLE.

Spoiler:

Yes, he was active and logged in and posted elsewhere between the time he was prodded and the time he was replaced. Like feel free to check this for yourself if you don't believe me.

GDI. How many times do I have to point out THIS IS TOTALLY NAI for Creature. I already explained (perhaps I didn't here???) that Creature was in a game I modded. He was a N1 Cop. He didn't submit an action. I prodded him a good 2 hours before deadline. HE PICKED THE PM AND STILL DIDN'T SUBMIT AN ACTION. I opened the thread, and there he was POSTING IN THREAD.

Tl;dr: TPR .. ONE SHOT .. SPECIFIC NIGHT .. ONLINE .. TOTALLY AWARE .. NO ACTION.

Now this certainly NOT a defense of Creature/Jay. This is telling you FACTS. If Jay doesn't Town it up, we lynch him or Vig him. But the fact Creature is ignoring this game is totally NAI (like you could ask him post-game and he will just say "I forgot about this game" or something along these lines).

GDI. How many times do I have to point out THIS IS TOTALLY NAI for Creature

My point in posting that is that multiple people were asserting he was sitewide inactive between the time he got prodded and the time he got replaced, which isn't true.

I don't really have much else to say right now other than that I don't like the screen wagon and I don't get why he's being policied instead of basing a lynch on alignment.

And even if you don't like his posting style, it's not like he's being toxic or anything like that so I don't really get why he's being policied at all tbh.

Like why are we spending a lynch on this instead of telling a potential vig to shoot him if you're that concerned about him getting to LYLO?

[Espeonage]

You were also a claimed PR from like page 2 that game.

There was a time I was going to shoot you night 1.

[Almost50]

You were also a claimed PR from like page 2 that game.

There was a time I was going to shoot you night 1.

Thank you for proving my point that you're utterly bad even if you're town. I really appreciate it.

[Espeonage]

There were too many claims for day 1. And I was right, one of them was a fakeclaim, so sue me. Also yours was bad enough to get you wagoned for your breadcrumb.

But that game is not this game and is irrelevant. Getting the votes back on you would be awesome.

[skitter30]

@Skitter: Well, you never objected to THAT in Stack The Deck, and I'll give you ONE EXAMPLE of you interacting with me DIRECTLY in response to a POST where I used THIS SAME POSTING STYLE.

Spoiler:

Yes, he was active and logged in and posted elsewhere between the time he was prodded and the time he was replaced. Like feel free to check this for yourself if you don't believe me.

GDI. How many times do I have to point out THIS IS TOTALLY NAI for Creature. I already explained (perhaps I didn't here???) that Creature was in a game I modded. He was a N1 Cop. He didn't submit an action. I prodded him a good 2 hours before deadline. HE PICKED THE PM AND STILL DIDN'T SUBMIT AN ACTION. I opened the thread, and there he was POSTING IN THREAD.

Tl;dr: TPR .. ONE SHOT .. SPECIFIC NIGHT .. ONLINE .. TOTALLY AWARE .. NO ACTION.

Now this certainly NOT a defense of Creature/Jay. This is telling you FACTS. If Jay doesn't Town it up, we lynch him or Vig him. But the fact Creature is ignoring this game is totally NAI (like you could ask him post-game and he will just say "I forgot about this game" or something along these lines).

GDI. How many times do I have to point out THIS IS TOTALLY NAI for Creature

My point in posting that is that multiple people were asserting he was sitewide inactive between the time he got prodded and the time he got replaced, which isn't true.

I don't really have much else to say right now other than that I don't like the screen wagon and I don't get why he's being policied instead of basing a lynch on alignment.

And even if you don't like his posting style, it's not like he's being toxic or anything like that so I don't really get why he's being policied at all tbh.

Like why are we spending a lynch on this instead of telling a potential vig to shoot him if you're that concerned about him getting to LYLO?

It always bothered me and it makes it slightly more difficult for me to read your posts. I didn't bother getting into it last game cuz I was operating on the assumption you were town from like the third page, remember? Now I like actually have to figure out if your posts are AI and I have to figure out if they feel awkward because I feel like you're RANDOMLY SHOUTING in middle of like every other sentence or if they're awkward because you're being awkward. Although there's always this general awkward-ness because of the RANDOM SHOUTING, you also feel fake and over-defensive-y right now in a way that has nothing to do with that. Like the *content* of your posts feel off, not just how you're going about communicating it. You feel overly concerned about getting across the idea that you discovered your slot was *actually* town after replacing in.

And like why are you focusing on the RANDOM SHOUTING thing instead of the fact that I just called your vote bad?

[Almost50]

@Esp: Try it. I dare you.

@Skitter: Same to you, my friend. Fake/awkward/void/defensive (did I miss anything?). Oh, yes I did.. and your vote is not only bad .. it SUCKS << serves to use the "shouting" once more.

Let's try something new. How about you call me.. erm.. an old fart? Would that make you feel better? How about MEAN. Yeah.. mean old fart. And I smell too. There you go.

[Thor665]

Will lynch pool from most to least want.

A50 > NM > Korina > Thor

Why do you scumread all of these people more than Dr. Fanta?
Also, if you do believe this, why not address my "replace out was aggressively town" stance I've literally been arguing in thread?

Are you actually kidding me? Your entire play for

the whole game

has been based on how people reacted to that initial vote and the argument that ensued has eaten up the entire. Yet you continue to lie about what people are saying, both about skitter and I.

You're acting as if I haven't answered your question. You are blatantly lying about our discussions here. This level of misrepresentation and obfuscation is scummy af.

VOTE: Thor

Please state, clearly and succinctly, without embellishment, what question precisely you wish me to answer. I don't think there's anything you can point to which I have not answered sufficiently over these last few pages.

So you're going to call me a liar...while still then wanting to doublecheck what you're saying I'm lying about?
Okay;

1. I note that you, despite writing three paragraphs, didn't actually explain what I'm doing that is strange in my reaction to 'people's surprise' - want to take another swing at that?

Feel free to quote where you answer that question.
And while you're at it - why don't you explain what I'm lying about? Because you *DID* say that, derp much?

@Thor: I think I'm just going to ignore you for a bit, no offense.

Yeah, I'm totally unsurprised you have to avoid the debate - even though you claim to still scum read me, and the ongoing debate appears to be one you're winning despite getting more anti-town vibes for doing it.
Oh, wait, that *doesn't* make sense for town.

Thor may be able to help here.

N_M said it, but Amish was the original creator - Amished Tell.

I'm pretty happy with skitter as town. I don't agree with all her stances but I think the slot is town. I pretty much never do meta. NM here is an exception because of how little there is to use.

Outside of town more often being wrong, ergo; making her town, what is your argument for her being town? Or is that enough to avoid someone noting meta and someone else noting that she is literally calling my very playstyle scummy when she has absolute proof that isn't true?

[Espeonage]

I don't scumread Dr Fanta, I only dislike them in relational to their random unvote which I really only see as coming from either town or a buddy of BuJ.

The replaceout is NAI.

skitter makes more sense than you do in your argument outside of the first handful of pages. I think your premise for her being scum is flawed and I don't see scum motivation to her actions, in fact I see a lot of protown coming out of her. You can argue fabrication, but it seems genuine to me.

Also A50's meta shit is garbage, he's flat out wrong there. I've played with skitter a few times. Seems as usual. I completely believe her when she says she could do it as scum too, so I would not trust any read on her based on meta.

[Korina]

Quick post from me before I go back to homework:
Esp, can you please not make like 50 short posts one after another please? Thanks.

I also feel like Almost's frustration is genuine. I still am town-reading that slot.

Ok, back to homework.

[TheGoldenParadox]

So, my entire thing about that, is that I honestly have never seen town trying to set up arguments where they know the exact outcome. It seems like something mafia/wolf would do.

How would I know what the outcome would be?
You're, like Skitter, accussing me of being a mindreader/master manipulator with zero evidence to support said claim, and then acting like it's a valid call.

@Korina - I knew the outcome would be you missing the question, but let's go with this a second time.

@Korina - third time's the charm?

You said so yourself.

Also, I hardclaim Citizen rn. I'm a fucking citizen once again, and literally out of half the rolelist being non-citizen roles, I get citizen again. I really don't care if I'm ML'd d1, happens all the time, and idgaf tbh.

This doesn't look like real frustration. Geniune frustration looks towny. This seems more "I'm a VT. Screw this" in the most exaggerated way possible.

This little bit looks pretty genuine and also makes me think it's pretty clear that if Thor flips red, then BuJaber is in the clear.

Scratch this, still trying to get into the multiball mindset. Fml.

@Pepper
How would this change your read on BuJaber/Almost50?
Are you thinking you'd be left with no read or a townlean/read
Or could it perhaps be a MvW?

I don't exactly want to cause a head v head argument but I'm curious for the sake of the game what your thoughts are on this potential flip
- Fanta

Can you chat in your PTs about this and not clog up the thread thanks

Right, so i've just iso'd Laserguy and his iso does not read as active lurker at all so for now

VOTE: Dr Fanta

I agree. I'll sheep this.

VOTE: Dr Fanta

The sheeping here seems E X T R E M E L Y oppurtunistic. I'm FoSing Beefster for this.


VOTE: Almost50
This is the most fake and horrible slot out there.

My lynch pool is like this: A50 > Wilky > Beefster.
If A50 is town, Esp is almost def scum. If A50's scum, Espeonage is almost def town. (Yes, I know we're in multiball).

[LaserGuy]

Day 1 ends in 4 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes

Um, I didn't realize that deadline was so close.

K, here's where I'm at:

{Montosh}
{Laserguy}
{}
{beef, wilky}
{NM} ------ null
{Korina, paradox}
{dr fanta, A50-slot, esp}
{}
{Thor}

I very much want to lynch Thor, but if that's not happening, I could move to Dr Fanta or A50 or esp at deadline.

Can you explain your townread on Montosh?

[LaserGuy]

Wait, you're in this game??? What the fuck

I mean I know I've been a ghost but jesus your posts read like blatant active lurking, full of fluff and fencefitting galore.

@skitter, @thor

I think you are both Town, but I am seriously contemplating pushing for a policy lynch on one of you at this point in time just so we won't have to put up with you bickering for the rest of the game. You are aren't getting anywhere and are making the thread more difficult to read and keep up with. Please move on.

"Waaaah people are giving us information by disagreeing with eachother and giving actually detailed arguments against eachother. This makes the game harder to read for me because I'm a lazy fuck. Boohoo."

While I think this opinion is stupid, it's town stupid.

You're already convinced Thor is scum and skitter is Town. What more information do you expect to get than that?

Spoiler:

Day 1 ends in 4 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes

Um, I didn't realize that deadline was so close.

K, here's where I'm at:

{Montosh}
{Laserguy}
{}
{beef, wilky}
{NM} ------ null
{Korina, paradox}
{dr fanta, A50-slot, esp}
{}
{Thor}

I very much want to lynch Thor, but if that's not happening, I could move to Dr Fanta or A50 or esp at deadline.

Ohoho, what the fuck is this?
Active lurker as your only other townread besides Montosh, fucking wilky

above

null somehow?

I would not be surprised by a skitter-Laserguy-wilky scumteam just because of this shitty readslist even if I'm currently TRing skitter for skitter v thor. In fact, skitter v thor might actually be SvS.

Annnd now I'm caught up.

Interesting that you appear to have read skitter vs. Thor in great detail, but apparently missed all of skitter's other reads. Actually, I'm pretty sure you're actually getting all of this from page 11-13 and haven't read the rest of the thread at all.

Spoiler:

This little bit looks pretty genuine and also makes me think it's pretty clear that if Thor flips red, then BuJaber is in the clear.

Scratch this, still trying to get into the multiball mindset. Fml.

@Pepper
How would this change your read on BuJaber/Almost50?
Are you thinking you'd be left with no read or a townlean/read
Or could it perhaps be a MvW?

I don't exactly want to cause a head v head argument but I'm curious for the sake of the game what your thoughts are on this potential flip
- Fanta

I'm pretty null on them at this point because it could've been MvW or just SvT and tbh there's not really enough substance between Bujaber and A50 for me to really dig in my claws, you know?

Also I think maybe we should chat between ourselves on this kind of thing mostly because it doesn't give town very much information to see us interacting between ourselves because we share a slot so like Pretty sure I'd rather leave room for interaction between different slots, and to not complicate / fill this game with informationless posts.

- BEGONE FOUL MORTAL!!

This is such a strange interaction.

Are you going to scumhunt at all this game or continue filling it with giant shitposts? I'd be happy to PL you.

-Pepper

Apparently Pepper has been reading the thread a little bit at least.

[LaserGuy]

Spoiler:

So, my entire thing about that, is that I honestly have never seen town trying to set up arguments where they know the exact outcome. It seems like something mafia/wolf would do.

How would I know what the outcome would be?
You're, like Skitter, accussing me of being a mindreader/master manipulator with zero evidence to support said claim, and then acting like it's a valid call.

@Korina - I knew the outcome would be you missing the question, but let's go with this a second time.

@Korina - third time's the charm?

You said so yourself.

Also, I hardclaim Citizen rn. I'm a fucking citizen once again, and literally out of half the rolelist being non-citizen roles, I get citizen again. I really don't care if I'm ML'd d1, happens all the time, and idgaf tbh.

This doesn't look like real frustration. Geniune frustration looks towny. This seems more "I'm a VT. Screw this" in the most exaggerated way possible.

This little bit looks pretty genuine and also makes me think it's pretty clear that if Thor flips red, then BuJaber is in the clear.

Scratch this, still trying to get into the multiball mindset. Fml.

@Pepper
How would this change your read on BuJaber/Almost50?
Are you thinking you'd be left with no read or a townlean/read
Or could it perhaps be a MvW?

I don't exactly want to cause a head v head argument but I'm curious for the sake of the game what your thoughts are on this potential flip
- Fanta

Can you chat in your PTs about this and not clog up the thread thanks

Right, so i've just iso'd Laserguy and his iso does not read as active lurker at all so for now

VOTE: Dr Fanta

I agree. I'll sheep this.

VOTE: Dr Fanta

The sheeping here seems E X T R E M E L Y oppurtunistic. I'm FoSing Beefster for this.


VOTE: Almost50
This is the most fake and horrible slot out there.

My lynch pool is like this: A50 > Wilky > Beefster.
If A50 is town, Esp is almost def scum. If A50's scum, Espeonage is almost def town. (Yes, I know we're in multiball).

Do you ignore questions to you on purpose? I addressed you in 316. You're quoting from 300 and 325 here, and your name is in big bold letters in my post, so I have a hard time imagining you missed it.

[skitter30]

My main request is that you all go ISO Skitter and compare his arguments to those he is using here and see if there's a significant difference. I won't even say "reads" because we don't have any flips here yet.

@Skitter: Same to you, my friend. Fake/awkward/void/defensive (did I miss anything?). Oh, yes I did.. and your vote is not only bad .. it SUCKS << serves to use the "shouting" once more.

Let's try something new. How about you call me.. erm.. an old fart? Would that make you feel better? How about MEAN. Yeah.. mean old fart. And I smell too. There you go.

Can you use she/her please?

Also, the bolded: a) why would I do that? b) how is that like relevant to anything?

I'm not like trying to personally insult you, I'm just saying that the way you type your posts are hard for me to read naturally. I don't really get why you're like trying to turn this into like a personal-insult thing?

Can you explain your townread on Montosh?

His posts actually feel real to me this time; they like express nuanced thoughts that just didn't exist in his scumgame. There his entire game was IIOA. Here he's actually providing new/unique insights.

This basically. His posts here have a nuance/depth that he didn't exihibit in his scumgame (a game that just ended like two weeks ago). I don't think his game changed that drastically in that short of a timeframe.

Like this is what I said about his posts there:

viewtopic.php?p=9909958#p9909958

Specifically:

and a lot of your posts are IIOA and seem largely bereft of scumhunting (specifically posts like 570 or post 576). I say the latter because you kinda just summarize people's opinions without much commentary.

The empty 'summary'-ness is kinda absent, and instead he's providing new/unique/thoughtful insights.

[LaserGuy]

Mate, I would be hard SRing you now if I didn't see your play in that game first hand. You REALLY need to stop tunneling and start reading and evaluating stuff. Like, if you're scum here you're a likely NK (if you're Mafia), likely investigation target (if you're a WW), and if you're Town you're a detriment to Town regardless because you're likely to BOTH draw the NK AND the investigation, let alone the (mis)lynch if you're still alive in 2 days.

How does this make sense? If he is Mafia, why would Werewolf kill him if his slot looks scummy?

[LaserGuy]

I think any of Paradox/Fanta/Almost50 are good lynches for today.

[Not_Mafia]

Are you a wolf hunting mafia?

[LaserGuy]

No. I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

[Almost50]

a) why would I do that? b) how is that like relevant to anything?

Because THEN I'd understand and can relate. And it's not an insult at all. I

am

almost 50 y.o., so I actually am an old fart (and a bald one too). I am occasionally mean in the sense that I lose my temper and become overly sarcastic at times. I probably smell too cuz I'm a heavy smoker.

Now any (or all) of these make sense and I can understand being called, but I can neither understand nor respond to "feels fake and void" or "your vote sucks" (especially coming from the target of my vote). Was I expected to send you some candy heart chocolate along with my vote? Was I supposed to be civil and ask for your permission to vote you? And am I supposed to introduce some sort of authentication certificate to prove what I say is genuine and not fake?

Anyway, I'm cool with you SRing me and me SRing you. Maybe we'll draw the same alignment in the next game we play together and we'll be getting along just fine. It's just the way the game is.

[Thor665]

I don't scumread Dr Fanta, I only dislike them in relational to their random unvote which I really only see as coming from either town or a buddy of BuJ.

You find nothing else they've done scummy?

The replaceout is NAI.

Replacing out is NAI - but the manner you replace out in can be alignment indicative.

skitter makes more sense than you do in your argument outside of the first handful of pages. I think your premise for her being scum is flawed and I don't see scum motivation to her actions, in fact I see a lot of protown coming out of her. You can argue fabrication, but it seems genuine to me.

I think I have objectively shown fabrication - why do you disagree that I haven't?
If I haven't shown fabrication I've at least shown that Skitter doesn't connect past actions to current reads - yeah? That's the reality of what has to be happening if she's town, yeah? if not - why not?

The scum motivation is lynching someone who she knows can spot her scum game.

What do you think is flawed n my premise?

[skitter30]

a) why would I do that? b) how is that like relevant to anything?

Because THEN I'd understand and can relate. And it's not an insult at all. I

am

almost 50 y.o., so I actually am an old fart (and a bald one too). I am occasionally mean in the sense that I lose my temper and become overly sarcastic at times. I probably smell too cuz I'm a heavy smoker.

I think your vote is bad. I don't really feel like that gives me leeway to call you rude things.

but I can neither understand nor respond to "feels fake and void"

I'm calling your entire manner 'fake' because it feels like you're overly concerned with getting across the idea about how *surprised* you were that you rolled town. Like you're going through the motions because you think it's something you have to say as opposed to something you believe. IE I'm basically saying you don't believe it cuz you know you're not in fact town.