Sometimes townies do things that don't appear to have a good reason. Sometimes they legitimately don't have a good reason, and sometimes they have one that you just can't see.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
In post 1002, Something_Smart wrote:Sometimes townies do things that don't appear to have a good reason. Sometimes they legitimately don't have a good reason, and sometimes they have one that you just can't see.
In post 674, Almost50 wrote:. I also have a sinking feeling at least one (but more likely two) of the three votes on me are scum motivated. I
Who are the scum votes on u?
One r two of the three votes on me,
But let's not waste time and energy on someone else. YOUR VOTE specifically smells. First, you didn't start my wagon. You even said you wouldn't worry about me right now, but as soon as you saw someone else spearheading it you hopped right on.
Furthermore -and this is even more concerning- you and I have established this for years: You disregard my play on D1 regardless and come back to me on D2 if I do make it through the night. You breaching that treaty is .. confusing me to say the least. When you were on track (as in when you said you wouldn't worry about me for now) I thought you
might
be hinting you're the role I am referring to. Now I very much doubt it and thus have no reason to assume good will on your part.
In post 674, Almost50 wrote:. I also have a sinking feeling at least one (but more likely two) of the three votes on me are scum motivated. I
Who are the scum votes on u?
One r two of the three votes on me,
But let's not waste time and energy on someone else. YOUR VOTE specifically smells. First, you didn't start my wagon. You even said you wouldn't worry about me right now, but as soon as you saw someone else spearheading it you hopped right on.
Furthermore -and this is even more concerning- you and I have established this for years: You disregard my play on D1 regardless and come back to me on D2 if I do make it through the night. You breaching that treaty is .. confusing me to say the least. When you were on track (as in when you said you wouldn't worry about me for now) I thought you
might
be hinting you're the role I am referring to. Now I very much doubt it and thus have no reason to assume good will on your part.
Sorry it's taking so long, I'm back again to grab a couple quotes I missed from IV's scum flail.
Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.
and andres i think is also in town meta even tho i havent seen his scum game - but ill leave him alive for 1 day regardless cuz he gets fearkilled a lot bc he really gets stronger as the game goes on
tl;dr : innocentvillager scum flails when his "pocket" (me) tries to bring back the BW unexpectedly. In a panic innocentvillager increases their total post count across the entire game by over 40% in less than an hour, during which time innocent villager: lies directly multiple times about why he is suddenly so active in the discussion, insisting he was here before the discussion started (which you will see he clearly was not), claims it's a coincidence he showed up a short while after I began casing him, all while denying there is any unusual activity happening in the thread, before exiting as though he's been caught in a lie and wants to get away.
Timeline step by step:
I suggest the idea that town hit correctly the first time and we should back innocentvillager wagon across SEVERAL posts from 945 to 960.
By the way, I'm pretty sure town hit correctly on innocentvillager thanks in no small part to RTP. that "reads list" iv posted was garbage and passive aggressive toward multiple players.
and andres i think is also in town meta even tho i havent seen his scum game - but ill leave him alive for 1 day regardless cuz he gets fearkilled a lot bc he really gets stronger as the game goes on
Is it in SS town meta to not vote anyone or FoS people and try to pocket multiple players?
And pretend to be not caught up on reading all game?
In post 946, Frogsterking wrote:For all you people who townread Andre for some reason but scumread Lap, answer me this:
who is Andre voting right now and why?
i actually have no idea, but i'm kinda getting hte vibe that he's just a ~low content~ player in general, and i'm kinda liking his content and approach ot the game when he is here
He's voting me still from his RVS.
I agree his vibe is cool, maybe I'm just paranoid he's scum coasting.
I have to say something to you though skitter, did you skim read innocentvillager's big post you're townreading them for?
Now, immediately AFTER these are posted and my intent to push for a BW is made clear, and WHILE I'm writing my case against IV, in 964 innocentvillager pops into the game thread all like "no see you misunderstand" in response to a far earlier statement I made against innocentvillager, allll the way back from 812 and 815. Is it a coincidence IV just happened to be responding to these issues now that the push is clearly becoming serious, instead of earlier (like innocentvillager has some increased awareness of things that have been said in the game thread than they are letting on? and choosing to participate only when it affects their survival?)
In post 515, innocentvillager wrote:I haven't read fully but here are some gth thoughts I had while skimming posts of interest to get me back into this:
Frogster -
I like the idea to do the survey and I will give the weird effort here a leantown.
Back in my "old guard" days we would do RQS (Random Questioning Stage) sometimes, and a common theme that came up during my games was that people would scumread the person who initially started the RQS because it's "easy content that doesn't actually accomplish anything". I found empirically that, conversely, the people who were starting RQS in that meta were actually more likely to be town, because there were enough people who thought it looked like fluff that scum were afraid to start it. I feel like a similar thing could be happening here; I doubt that scum!Frog does this because they think it will look good, because I don't really know how you could expect to get townread for it. I've personally found that people who do weird, nonconventional thing are more likely to be town (as long as they are clearly not potentially scum!motivated).
RTP - I don't really know who this is or if they have sort sort of history with me (?), but I think the desire to push me hard out of the gate seems genuine in a show-offy way. I doubt many scumplayers would be able to put themselves in the forefront and yell for my elimination. If they were scum, there's no real urgency to push my elimination because I've already sort of stated that I will be more ineffectual than usual this game, which aligns with my historical scum meta. Lean town for now.
Laplacian - RTP asked me to look into this slot a bit ago. I felt very meh about the slot - I realized he got jumped on for some accusation he made and I can see why he got jumped for it but don't feel strongly about what it genuinely means for his alignment.
Aristeia - I've played one game with Aristeia where I was scum and she was town. She sheeped Datisi around the whole day and she's doing the exact same thing here. I'll have more thoughts here later, obviously I don't really want to disclose exactly what I'm looking for.
Datisi - I don't have any thoughts on Datisi's alignment, but he's definitely next on my radar to read if I get some time because I do feel like Datisi gives off genuine hints of towniness if you look closely enough.
skitter - I really don't have any thoughts on skitter. I've concluded I have absolutely no idea how to read her and I doubt I will be able to. I'm very paranoid of this slot in general.
So where are your survey results, innocentvillager?
Does anyone think innocentvillager was trying to pocket me because of his lack of action?
I think you misunderstood me? i like your attempt at getting people to do the survey from a perspective of reading you, not that I was actually going to do your survey
The timing is so "coincidental", you can see the PEDIT at the bottom of my case and vote in 965, where I indicate via PEDIT I can see innocentvillager has now of all times made an appearance in the gamethread.
We've got time, I guess my ideal cross would be between iv and Lap. I think this is a better cross than Lap/a50. I think both are sus but I think there is a moderate chance Lap flips town and was just really newb with a lunchbait personality. I don't think iv is town. a50 also claimed some crap PR so there's that extra downside.
I haven't read fully but here are some gth thoughts I had while skimming posts of interest to get me back into this:
Frogster - I like the idea to do the survey and I will give the weird effort here a leantown. Back in my "old guard" days we would do RQS (Random Questioning Stage) sometimes, and a common theme that came up during my games was that people would scumread the person who initially started the RQS because it's "easy content that doesn't actually accomplish anything". I found empirically that, conversely, the people who were starting RQS in that meta were actually more likely to be town, because there were enough people who thought it looked like fluff that scum were afraid to start it. I feel like a similar thing could be happening here; I doubt that scum!Frog does this because they think it will look good, because I don't really know how you could expect to get townread for it. I've personally found that people who do weird, nonconventional thing are more likely to be town (as long as they are clearly not potentially scum!motivated).
RTP - I don't really know who this is or if they have sort sort of history with me (?), but I think the desire to push me hard out of the gate seems genuine in a show-offy way. I doubt many scumplayers would be able to put themselves in the forefront and yell for my elimination. If they were scum, there's no real urgency to push my elimination because I've already sort of stated that I will be more ineffectual than usual this game, which aligns with my historical scum meta. Lean town for now.
Laplacian - RTP asked me to look into this slot a bit ago. I felt very meh about the slot - I realized he got jumped on for some accusation he made and I can see why he got jumped for it but don't feel strongly about what it genuinely means for his alignment
Aristeia - I've played one game with Aristeia where I was scum and she was town. She sheeped Datisi around the whole day and she's doing the exact same thing here. I'll have more thoughts here later, obviously I don't really want to disclose exactly what I'm looking for.
Datisi - I don't have any thoughts on Datisi's alignment, but he's definitely next on my radar to read if I get some time because I do feel like Datisi gives off genuine hints of towniness if you look closely enough.
skitter - I really don't have any thoughts on skitter. I've concluded I have absolutely no idea how to read her and I doubt I will be able to. I'm very paranoid of this slot in general.
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super lame excuse, super convenient for finally posting such a terrible list. I don't buy iv's cover story at all, I think it's true that iv is busy, but I think iv is using that truth to conceal that they are lurking scum. And I get the sense from this post that iv is more aware of what's happening than they are letting on.
I think this post is a bunch of shit. I think the top half in green is designed to drop town pings and get himself townread, and the bottom half in red is designed to throw massive shade, some subtle and some not, including the several players he "forgets" to mention. This is such a garbage reads list, most of his statements are just describing things he noticed, some of which aren't even from the game, and never committing on a read.
I guess skitter is townreading it because skitter thinks she's sus even though other players tr her, and innocentvillager said she was sus so it seems cool, but i think this is just dropping shade and not congruent with the game.
PEDIT : LOL
LOOK WHO SHOWS UP NOW OF ALL TIMES
Now it would make sense for a townie to try to defend themselves immediately, and I can't PROVE that innocentvillager was aware of but had chosen not to respond to my earlier statements, or that they are keeping fairly close enough tabs on the game thread to be able to respond to threats within the time frame they did. Though it does seem very suspicious; it's circumstantial.
innocentvillager however is behaving as though they are conscious of their scumminess and starts scumflailing, posting a very long series of posts, changing his behavior to the extent he increases his total post count from #22 to #35 in a very short period of time. While flailing, innocentvillager
lies
and says that he was here in the game thread BEFORE I was, implying that my suspicions are
not
what he is clearly reacting in his behavior toward. For example iinnocentvillager says "Hi Frog...i got here first fam" in 967 and "i just checked in and you literally dropped that post on me" in 974 which I believe are incredibly unlikely coincidences, and I also believe that innocentvillager's behavior indicates
he
believes it's unlikely, which might be the most important part.
innocentvillager goes into what appears to be a frenzied attempt at damage control, gaslighting skitter into believing that there are very concrete reasons for town!innocentvillager to be paranoid of her, shades RTP's ability to generate D1 reads and my ability to make logical cases, playing on RTP's self-disclosed weakness of not letting go of their solves because of ego, and claims the discussion should move on because it's not a good way to "spend the time he has" and other AtE. (I bring up the AtE again.) They do all this while insisting repeatedly there is nothing unusual going on and there is nothing to see here.
This scum flail lasts from 966 to 983, which I tried to place in the spoilers below but I may have missed some posts.
OH lmao I did think your posting style was familiar
Okay now it makes sense why you are so into killing me this game
Just a note to any of my familiars, I really think the meta discussion around me is p useless and shouldn’t TR/SR me off of that - just treat me like a different player pretend I have a different username or something this game
I shouldn’t be a polarized slot at this point given how little I’ve been here/I haven’t townspewed at all so I’m not sure where any of that is coming from. I should prolly just be in everyone’s PoE rn but that’s just me atm
I don’t really want to spend the time I have here just talking about me and how my meta is useless here so id like to move on
Lmao the web of lies. I'm going back now to fetch the posts so everyone can see u trying to cover ur butt.
How is that a lie? Wtf?
*
Reads a litle sus lol. Also variants of "how am i scum? wtf" are a somewhat reliable scum tell on EM (which is livechat format) when you catch the scum player off guard, I think partly because it's like stalling.
Below IV gaslights skitter, who IV has pocketed by mimicking her read on me and playing into her paranoia about being townread by too many players. I want to point out that regardless of your read of skitter (I'm thinking of House pov here) the sketch part about this is that IV is clearly motivated to convince skitter to think he does have reasons to be paranoid of her, because skitter is reading IV as town for doing so, and this is scummy regardless of whether or not you yourself are personally paranoid of skitter, because the purpose is to pocket skitter and defend IV's earlier statements.
Spoiler:
In post 968, skitter30 wrote:i actually really liked the frog read, and feel similarly
don't have thoughts on rtp, dats, ari
he has made a point of telling me before that he doesn't know how to read me and that he's massively paranoid of me, and that's in line with that game, but now that i think about it i'm realizing that was a scum-iv game so maybe i should be more bothered by it idk
In post 972, innocentvillager wrote:You know when I say stuff like that as scum some of it is actually true? I have reasons to be paranoid of you that I can’t talk about rn
In post 982, skitter30 wrote:i think i'm a little easier to read than most people think i am?
i.e. i think there's some noteable differences between my town/scum games but apparently i'm good enuf at sounding similar that i think a lot of people can't tell the difference
i'm not sure if that answers your question
very much agree with u abt frog
innocentvillager tries to reinforce RTP's doubt their D1 reading abilities, because RTP feels like a threat to innocentvillager, and innocentvillager also tries to use AtE to move the discussion away from themselves:
OH lmao I did think your posting style was familiar
Okay now it makes sense why you are so into killing me this game
Just a note to any of my familiars, I really think the meta discussion around me is p useless and shouldn’t TR/SR me off of that - just treat me like a different player pretend I have a different username or something this game
*
I shouldn’t be a polarized slot at this point given how little I’ve been here/I haven’t townspewed at all so I’m not sure where any of that is coming from. I should prolly just be in everyone’s PoE rn but that’s just me atm
I don’t really want to spend the time I have here just talking about me and how my meta is useless here so id like to move on
I can't believe you have the audacity to show up here posting content trying to force town tells the second you get accused again.
In post 983, innocentvillager wrote:Okay knowing RTP is koba helps and doesn’t help - they’re prolly not as town as I thought they were but i still think they’re townish idk. I don’t trust their D1 read accuracy that much but I think they will eventually converge on better and better reads.
Koba if you want to explain Datisi, Out, skitter I would certainly be open to hearing it, but “energies” is too vague for me to sheep, especially you have me in your solve
*
Generic AtE lines or implying RTP doesn't have valid reasons for scum reading them and mis-executes players on D1 as a pattern.
Below innocentvillager can't back down from his earlier attempts to pocket me because his earlier read on me was part of the reason he stopped getting BWed, so he just tries to discredit me instead:
After 983 innocentvillager suddenly ceases the posting frenzy and disappears, I believe the time frame here was 20 minutes, and then after IV is done changing his pants he returns to post the below:
Spoiler:
In post 984, innocentvillager wrote:Hi, due to RL stuffs for the next unspecified period of time I am doing a self imposed posting/reading posting ban outside of the hours of 8am - 4pm EST on weekdays, and after 10pm on Sun - Thurs. I need to start keeping myself more accountable - sorry for any inconvenience this causes
And he was never heard from in the thread again! The end.
And now finally, for the epilogue a bonus provided by Ari (who is not panic bussing like I accused her of--this was brought up during the first innocentvillager BW and she thought it might be relevant to bring up again), a quote from a recent completed innocentvillager mininormal scum game, where innocentvillager uses similar tactics to what have been outlined here to receive town credit, like posting similar read lists as this game, and similar kinds of AtE as this game, so some of these things I'm accusing innocentvillager of are documented to be within their scum range.
If I can have some leeway to toss a spin in alongside this meta information, I think scum!innocentvillager's behavior this game makes a lot of sense if they've already rolled scum recently in a game before this and didn't want to have to play scum again.
T3 - I remember meta'ing this guy back in DEFCON mafia but i feel like he's way different now this doesn't resemble either his town or scum game. Guy doesn't care he's posting every thought and just vibing. which is kind of what i do as scum sometimes too but i don't think it's something most ppl do. Being open about feeling disconnected from the game feels +town and i some of his content looks bad on the surface but he doesn't give a fuck and i think some of his takes were reasonable. The "mindmeld" with salsa post felt real and i think the excitement was genuine idk that was kinda townpingy i guess. flashvote on me was bad but he could just be trigger happy.
north of null
kyouko - anyone who proactively and early does a meta dive scumcase that clearly laid out with no bullshit can be a townlean, unless it's someone who i know can put in the effort as scum like datisi. maybe kyouko's a good scum player too so idk but fine keeping that slot around for now. i feel meh about trusting these kinds of tells because i think they tend to be mean-reverting more than ppl expect but i like the spirit
datsi - concise and nonpostury takes are very non-lamist. i think scum!gamma might be more lamisty and wordy which is the vibe i got from him in LN something
mew - idk i take back the faker comparison he seems to be very open about his thoughts and is very willing to explain everything he's thinking which is a plus - maybe he's scum good at faking this kind of stuff even under pressure tho idk seems redeemable at least
idk
datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too. sorry dayteezee i know u are good at getting ppl to townread you but not me yet. i feel like as i keep interacting with you ill get a better sense for your alignment
salsa - i get a T3/unabombah vibe from this slot very spammy and ico style catchup lol. granted una was scum in the game im thinking of but vibe here is very frazzled. idk i can't really put into words here yet but meh.
dwlee - i think some of their earlier posting was fine and reminiscent of our recent game but i wasn't exactly trying to read dwlee there so idk this reread dwlee didn't stand out like at all. idk
nm is like 95% town for the miller claim because nm knows how to play mafia but doesn't care enough to fakeclaim miller as scum.
ari, chaos no idea
margot kind of blends into the background aside from that crazy E1? it feels weird that she feels obligated to update her reads list so much but that's probably just a playstyle thing. or a self conscious newb scum ha. regardless im sure ill get a better sense of this slot after voteparking her
i would attempt a dumb early solve but it's literally too dumb and too early so ill just wait until i get in the game a little more before utterly embarrassing myself (not that it's going to increase my read accuracy much anyway probs, lol)
Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.
how do you feel about actually sharing your reads?
pedit: of course there's a huge post that drops now... will get to it when i crawl out of bed lol
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
Softed on page 1 & my reads list (same green color code for me and iv, different code for other hard townreads). Interactions between us show familiarity when I've never been in a game with them. They call me town but don't justify it, unlike their other townreads.
iv didn't want me to out on d1 and one of our earlier public interactions was him trying to discourage me from it when I mentioned in Mason chat that it would suck to out early.
Your chainsaw came back to bite you in the ass. Lap & Frog are scum together.
Softed on page 1 & my reads list (same green color code for me and iv, different code for other hard townreads). Interactions between us show familiarity when I've never been in a game with them. They call me town but don't justify it, unlike their other townreads.
iv didn't want me to out on d1 and one of our earlier public interactions was him trying to discourage me from it when I mentioned in Mason chat that it would suck to out early.
Your chainsaw came back to bite you in the ass. Lap & Frog are scum together.
Damn house you're a very good actor. when I was death tunneling you, you really convinced me with the AtE because you seemed so angry you were also confused, and like you were willing to push the point to the extent it sacrificed your credibility within the town. I remember once a long time ago I saw a scum play like that, and I was thinking about that game while watching your AtE come in and wondering how far you were willing to go. Eventually I was like nah.. that one player from that one game was an outlier.. almost no scum would look like this, it's more likely I made a mistake and pushed it too far.
Then when I tried to make up with you, you were all like wounded ego narrative and everything. I thought we had a moment there!
Bruce: Terry. I've been thinking about something you once told me... and you were wrong. It's not Batman that makes you worthwhile; it's the other way around. Never tell yourself anything different.
Terry: ...Thanks.
