Perfect Masquerade [Game Over]

[Lady 7]

This is expecting everyone to read the game like you do.

i mean. you could townread different people. that's fine. what i have a problem with is people keeping their options open to lynch essentially any slot.
especially when it involves sniping at my dance partner to make her mislynchable right after you didn't try to pair with me instead.

Look I’m not going to fake townreads. And scumhunting isn’t leaving hints open to mislynch, it’s trying to find out people’s alignments.

I didn’t snipe. This right here feels like sniping at me though, and you have been for days. You’re not reading what I’ve written in response to your theory, you’re just sniping at me. I didn’t make her muslynchable. I had a theory I acknowledged could be silly. Didn’t even push it. You’re the one keeping it front and forefront by claiming I’m not allowed to scumhunt.

[Lady 7]

L5 is playing so bad it has to be town.

G6, G5, why the strong L6 town reads?

I liked the entrance from yesterday, it was wayyyy to agressive and stubborn to come from scum.

The fact she stopped after overreacting is good too.

If you think scum don’t act like this, I’ve git a shitton of people to introduce you to.

[Lady 7]

I'm fine with 1 of L5/L1 sitting.

I am NOT fine with L6 sitting.

Look I’m not going to fake townreads. And scumhunting isn’t leaving hints open to mislynch, it’s trying to find out people’s alignments.

I didn’t snipe. This right here feels like sniping at me though, and you have been for days. You’re not reading what I’ve written in response to your theory, you’re just sniping at me. I didn’t make her muslynchable. I had a theory I acknowledged could be silly. Didn’t even push it. You’re the one keeping it front and forefront by claiming I’m not allowed to scumhunt.

Do you remember the point that I said
I explicitly think that you don't actually feel scummy despite my disliking your read progressions on an intellectual level and that's why I wanted a hood to sort you more directly
I think that G5 is explicitly scummy in his approach. I haven't responded to you because I didn't really have anything to say: I already understood that you could be town with the progressions you had.

I'm not calling you scum, in other words. I think your play has been pro-scum in terms of the sense of having not enough townreads in an absolute sense but that doesn't make you scum.

G5 is scum for more than his lack of townreads and his reluctance to dole out townreads, which is why I am spiritually voting him.

No, I don’t remember you saying you wanted a hood with me to sort me more directly. What I remember is l4 and l8 expressing interest in pairing with you. And you wanting to pair with l8 but asking me and 4 to advertise ourselves which mademe uncomfortable.

you can think im proscum for not having townreads I don’t have. If I could quicken it up, I would. It’s not fun how long it takes me sometimes. Sometimes it’s quick and that’s glorious. Other times it’s not and I plod.

[Lady 7]

So remember earlier when I said it was funny when people misaltguess people in altgsmes and misters based on that?

Yeah it’s not funny. It’s miserable and one of the surest ways for town to lose. I’m not kidding. I’ve played nearly 100 alt games and it happens way too often even when people should know better.

Please remember that while you think you’re right, you might not be.

So please or the love of all that is holy stop talking about people’s mains.

[Lady 7]

Grrr g6 I kinda wanna punch you in the face. I’m lying in bed trying to fall asleep and thinking over the day, and something you said about lady 6 made me think that I think I know who you think they are, which in so realizing and thinking about that has me all kinds of confused on lady 6 and it feels like 5 Palimpsests on top of those thoughts.

This is why there should be no talk about mains. It’s just one more barrier.

(I don’t actually want to punch you in the face btw)

[Lady 7]

I’m liking g4 more by the way. Still think of him in his den smoking a cigar, but feels less manipulative than the feel I had the other night. Also it’s really nice when there’s someone else working on thread congeniality.

[Lady 7]

“Why are men great til they gotta be great” - my read on the men as a collective whole.

Having a really hard time finding some town reads amongst the gents :/

Isn’t that lyric why are men great until they gotta be brave?

...I almost just main slipped :/

(Also I don't think anyone actually thinks L5 is scum.)

[Lady 7]

You people are weird.

Also it seems to me the discussing of suiciding is counterproductive to the game as a whole.

[Lady 7]

Guys.

This discussion has been going on for the better part of at least 30 pages. It's dominating the discussion. It's a distraction, and we're in predance, which means there's literally nothing we can do about it. And with all back and forth, paranoid theories and lack of cohesion, nobody's even going to listen if one of you are right.

So please can the group of g5/g6/l8 stop taiking about each other? Collect the stuff you want to say, wait for predance to be over, discuss it with your partner, and then once dance actually begins present your thoughts after the thread has had time to calm down.

Even if one of you is right about one in that group, there's still 2 other scum to catch. And if you're not right, you'l ve just allowed a big huge distraction for them to hide behind and make themselves look good by either ignoring it or jumping in.

I completely understand the desire to get your point out I really do, but step back for a little, please.

[Lady 7]

(Although I will say this discussion recently is more interesting, but I still stand by my earlier point.)

[Lady 7]

I've been operating under the assumption that L5 will be left out, not you.

[Lady 7]

6 and 3 teamed up.

[Lady 7]

What do you see that's problematic?

I think this type of things is typical? In every game I've been in that has a confirmation stage, which is what I'm taking this as, people get their reads in that stage and continue from there.

Is there something different that you're seeing?

[Lady 7]

STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP

[Lady 7]

What do you see that's problematic?

I think this type of things is typical? In every game I've been in that has a confirmation stage, which is what I'm taking this as, people get their reads in that stage and continue from there.

Is there something different that you're seeing?

It’s more problematic in this setup because it is lining up two deaths. I’ve already relegated myself to the fact that I am going to die if not preDance, than first dance unless G1 decides to be my knight in shining armor. I’m not sure I want him to be my savior, either. I do townread L2’s posts and I would much prefer that L2 does not die. But that comes necessarily at the cost of my own life.

This is all under the operating premise that G8 is scum, which even if he isn’t, he has to go because he’s simply unreadable at this point with how little content he has.

I agree that I don't want to see L2 die, but I guess I haven't been worrying about it because I figured L5 would be left out anyway.

As for the first bit, I don't really see how it's different. I do think that the two deaths issue means we have to be even more careful about our reads, but I don't understand why getting reads and scum reads in predance is more problematic. Maybe I'm not understanding where you're going with this though.

[Lady 7]

Like you guys are saying G5s been discussed to death but afaik no one besides me scumreads him still. Everyone is sitting here talking about how L8 is scum and L7 is calling that more productive discussion. It's not really a question if what's protown it's whether you guys agree with what's being discussed, and since no one agrees that G5 is scum trying to call him scum is getting pooh-poohed whereas the L8 is scum circlejerk which is for really questionable reasons even if she is scum is a universal read (who are her buddies exactly? Why aren't they trying to buoy up her slot if she's paired with obvtown) and no one stops to ask themselves what that says about what scum are doing in the game. Whereas if I'm right and G5 is scum it makes complete sense scum are trying to support the L8 scum narrative and shut down discussion of G5 since it can be reasonably assumed that after I'm dead no one scumreads G5 and he has a clean walk to endgame. Doesn't help no one engaged with my actual case on G5 and everyone engaged with reductive strawmen of my actual case.

What I'm saying is that I feel like you guys are thinking very one dimensionally about things and not really trying to understand how I feel or why I feel that way.

No, I thought the discussion over L8's reaction and whether or not it was genuine was more interesting. I'd prefer all of it to drop.

And quite frankly I have been trying to figure out how you feel and why you feel that way. That's literally part of my scum hunting process, and I think I do understand where you're coming on g5, but there are a couple impediments here. You've thrown a similar theory at me earlier, which I know is wrong, and right or wrong when someone gives a paranoid reasoning that I know is wrong I'm going to take less seriously the paranoid theory on someone else for a similar reasoning. You might be right, hell I've been right for thinner reasoning than that before. And I can't even try to figure out if you're right when you're engaged in this protracted back and forth. I find them extremely difficult to read and if he is scum you're giving him something to do that is going to just shut the town off rather than force him to do other things that will be more readable.

[Lady 7]

I'm not convinced that if you haven't read him as scum so far the solution is to not push him and you don't believe that either: you just don't want to lynch him and that's fine but be honest to yourself and me about it.

lol

[Lady 7]

Oh that's depressing

[Lady 7]

Okay strategy people, I now understand why there's some need for strategy in the partners.

Sorry for being a hippie everyone should choose who they want with no thought about anything but that. Not that I think there should be dictatorial control, but.

I get it.

[Lady 7]

Oh that's depressing

No kidding, this is a problem. I definitely was hoping L1 and I would get invitations over L5. This is just a straight-up mess.

Yeah I thought it was a no-brainer.

Now I feel like I ruined things by not just accepting 8.

I'm sorry.

[Lady 7]

Why was asking me a disruptive invitation?

(Also just switched devices and almost logged into my main. ...this does not bode well)

[Lady 7]

For people who’ve played before - does mafia usually have a chat during precancerous? I’m guessing yes.

[Lady 7]

*predance

[Lady 7]

It doesn’t specifically say it here, but in the spring waltz they did have a mafia qt for the whole game. So I’m going to assume so here. Not exactly sure where I’m going with this train of thought though.

[Lady 7]

Why was asking me a disruptive invitation?

(Also just switched devices and almost logged into my main. ...this does not bode well)

You're a strong, high-contribution player widely Townread. He's a gent with almost no contributions to speak of. A G8-L7 pair potentially locks you away in a pairing with no long-term viability even though you I think do have long-term utility in general. Now you didn't accept, sure, but in theory you could have - I guess it's more specifically an invitation for a disruptive pairing and not a disruptive invitation if you frame it that way. Asking L5 is disruptive in the opposite way - it takes a slot not widely Townread, not widely regarded as very readable, regarded by more than one player as moderately compromised in general, and locks it into Dance, forcing out one of two slots regarded as potentially readable (I think?).

And just the fact that both times he does this without, like, any indication of why he asked who he asked? It's just so hard to see this as not completely calculated.

PEdit: Oh I think this is worse than precancerous, I would say things have definitely invaded through the basement membrane here.

Yeah I mean it’s definitely weird. Part of the reason why I got skeeved out by the invitation was l6 thinking I should take it and I thought that was a plan by the scumteam to pair me with the person they were planning to bus to get me out early. But after g6 hinted at who l6 is, I’m not even sure she’s scum anymore as much as I did before. And that’s even silly because I doubt people know who I am or would even consider me a threat anymore.

So yeah I’m not quite sure where I’m going with the thought.

[Lady 7]

WHETHER L8 IS SCUM OR NOT

HAS ABSO FUCKING LUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CORRECTNESS OF MY READS AND YOU AND G5 HAVE SPENT THIS WHOLE GAME ATTACKING MY READS BY CALLING MY PARTNER SCUM. NO.

I DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY MY READ ON L8 TO HAVE READS ON OTHER PEOPLE.

Please don’t yell at me, but I haven’t noticed anyone basically saying your reads suck because l8 is scum or at least I haven’t interpreted it that way. But if that’s happening, and please not today do it when dance starts, point out to me where that is happening and I will try to understand where you’re coming from. Make another post to me like you did in 2422, and I won’t try anymore. Maybe you don’t care or want me as a soundboard and that’s fine. I can’t promise to agree, but I will listen and try to understand, but my patience in how I’m talked to is not infinite.

Now with that said, please go take a break and do something that’s relaxing because this is not healthy not for you or the game. This is not me being judgmental. One of the reasons I took a break from mafia was because I was getting so emotionally invested in games it was making me miserable in and outside of the game. I couldn’t detach and it was awful. I’m seeing some of that here, you’re burning yourself out. Please do something you enjoy, and try to forget about this for the rest of the night.

[Lady 7]

Well then, this is disheartening.

I really do find it impossible to keep up with the pace you good people are producing.

At this stage, I will happily attend the dance with anyone who would also like not to be left by the wayside. I see Lady Luck has declined my invitation, so let us try again -

Lady 5, would you care to dance?

I wonder if this was because L2 is scum. Or maybe it was to cast doubt on L2’s alignment. That is a very interesting turn of events.

But with one gentleman left, and a chance his partnerould get left behind, why not ask his partner. Sure they might be the one to go first in the dance but at least theyve helped to insure that a townie will be unasked.

[Lady 7]

Well then, this is disheartening.

I really do find it impossible to keep up with the pace you good people are producing.

At this stage, I will happily attend the dance with anyone who would also like not to be left by the wayside. I see Lady Luck has declined my invitation, so let us try again -

Lady 5, would you care to dance?

I wonder if this was because L2 is scum. Or maybe it was to cast doubt on L2’s alignment. That is a very interesting turn of events.

But with one gentleman left, and a chance his partnerould get left behind, why not ask his partner. Sure they might be the one to go first in the dance but at least theyve helped to insure that a townie will be unasked.

If operating under the assumption that G8 and L2 are scum this means that currently L1 (town) dies, L5 (town) dies, and G1 (town dies) or possibly his partner and just one townie dies (L5) by being tied to him.

Under your proposal, it means that one lady dies and then they both die by being tied to one another.

The play just made ensures the worst possible scenario of one townie dying, with the possibility of three dying. That’s much better statistically than the situation you suggested where the two scum pair.

I don’t follow. Unless I’m misunderstanding you’re saying that potentially g8(scum) decided to go for l5(town) over l2(scum) which doesn’t make sense to me because that means he’s leaving behind his partner to die certain death in pregame rather than having a fighting chance in dance.

[Lady 7]

Oh I see what you’re saying, two scum/one townie die regardless?

Hmm.

[Lady 7]

I feel too preoccupied with G8. L7, who are your suspects?

What is your read on l2? I thought you were reading her as town.

(I’m squinting at most the game.)

[Lady 7]

I THOUght out were townreading l2, and now it reads like you’re positioning to call her scum to save yourself.

[Lady 7]

Oh “1 I see you did answer. Missed it.

Also rank hubris party of one right here :p

[Lady 7]

I THOUght out were townreading l2, and now it reads like you’re positioning to call her scum to save yourself.

I think it's human nature in this situation.

But it felt like it was being done in a weird way. How likely do you think if G8 is scum he lets his partner sit in danger of not being chosen and that makes l2 likely scum because G8 didn't choose her? In my mind, scum would want to do everything they could to make sure they get to the dance.

I read your other post to me, and I'll go back and read when the whole interaction started later.

[Lady 7]

What happens if a Gentleman does not ask someone? Do all partnerless players die?

Yes.

(expired on 2019-11-11 19:42:00) to end of pre-dance.

Reminder that if there are 12 or fewer people alive, then we skip First Dance and go straight into Intermission.

[Lady 7]

My trainer is trying to kill me :/

Anyway I have just a couple minutes before I have to go back to work. Monday’s and Tuesday’s are my busiest days, and I don’t have much more time than to skim quickly to pptry to keep up. If you have a question for me, bold it so that it stands out, or if g7 is around ask him to link it in the qt. My goal for today is to go through g5 like I promised I would. Hopefully I’ll have some time tonight to give thoughts on that.

I saw lady 3 ask about my choice this morning. I’ve already answered this though. The other night I gave a preference list of g3, 7, 1, 8 in that order of who’s left. I cooled off on g3 when I started to worry about his motives and then he made it coear he wouldn’t ask me anyway. G7 was next on the list.

So I was thinking about g8, and I kinda don’t think he’s scum. I don’t understand why he’d choose l5 if he had a qt with the scum team because people made it quite clear they wanted her gone. I can’t imagine scum wanting to be tied to that sinking ship unless they’re exactly scum together and they wanted to make sure that town would be left behind.

And I also can’t see how even if g8 is scum, it means l2 is more likely scum because he didn’t choose her. It makes no sense to me that the next to last man standing would let his partner sway in the wind and almost get left out unless g is scum and they had already planned for g1 to pair up with l2 if no other player did.

Like it makes more sense to me that if g8 is scum, you suspect me because he chose me instead of others.

Am I thing about this in a crazy way? For gamestate health g8/l5 will probably have to go anyway because it’s just too disruptive, and people irritated by her posts should probably stop interacting with her because you’re just asking her to post more stuff that’s gonna make you mad.

Crap I had another thought right there and I can’t remember.

I need to try to organize my reads and thoughts a bit, but for now and when I can today I will work on g5

Toodles

[Lady 7]

How many times have you played scum before, Lady 7?

Played over 209 games of mafia, more town than scum, but I can’t give you a number. I absolutely hate, detest, loathe drawing scum, but I usually do okay. Went on a two-year streak of winning every scum game I played across 6 sites sometime back though. Don’t know how I’d do today. Haven’t played mafia in over a year and haven’t drawn scum in two years. I still hate it. Drawing mafia is one of the worst forms of torture in mafia, and that’s misery usually shines through.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but.

Okay gotta go for realz.

[Lady 7]

How many times have you played scum before, Lady 7?

Played over 209 games of mafia, more town than scum, but I can’t give you a number. I absolutely hate, detest, loathe drawing scum, but I usually do okay. Went on a two-year streak of winning every scum game I played across 6 sites sometime back though. Don’t know how I’d do today. Haven’t played mafia in over a year and haven’t drawn scum in two years. I still hate it. Drawing mafia is one of the worst forms of torture in mafia, and that’s misery usually shines through.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but.

Okay gotta go for realz.

That's actually... really interesting. How long have you been playing and across what sites?

I asked because I somewhat disagreed with you on your previous comment, but you obviously have the experience to be taken pretty seriously here so I'll weigh it appropriately.

Still back at work but I thought I had a meeting. It’s next Monday oops.

Anyway I started playing in late 2011 army homesite rip then came here sometime later. Not gonna mention sites though cuz I might as well mainslip depending on who might be in the game.

Why do you disagree though? I have experience and some strengths but strategy is not one of them. I’ve never played or followed a dance game before, and my brain does not conceptualize how things will work or look just from the setup. I have to see how things are playing out/read peoples theories/express my own to see it.

So if you disagree let me know!

[Lady 7]

Nope!

[Lady 7]

Do people actually think G8-L5 is an actual T-S or S-S pairing?

Will you look at my post on the previous page and tell me what you think?

[Lady 7]

Do people actually think G8-L5 is an actual T-S or S-S pairing?

Will you look at my post on the previous page and tell me what you think?

Yes, I get what you think about G8, but you never explicitly said what you thought of L5.

Probably not scum. Unless she gets away with behaving like this a lot. I said last night I didn’t think anyone actually thinks she’s scum.

What did you think of my thoughts though?

[Lady 7]

Alright, let's discuss it after the game, then!

I think as scum I'd rather let my partner stand on her own - if she can't really convince someone to partner with her, she's likely to be a liability, and the jump on Lady 5 seemed like an attempt to avoid association with Lady 2. That's just a narrative that seems to fit pretty well as far as I'm concerned, but you bring up some good points counter to that, so I'll definitely consider that at the very least.

But lady 5 is the biggest liability here. If scum 8 partnered with l2 at least they’d have a fighting chance, you know because you never know what’s going to happen once in the dance. Some of my funniest scum wins were ones I didn’t deserve because town imploded, and there’s always that chance. I guess if I were scum 8, I’d rather dance with scum2, who was picking up some moderate town reads, and allow us to fight rather than let scum 2 leave the dance bringing us down one, dance with the biggest liability in the game that’s very likely to get lynched, andlet my last partner stick it out to the end.

I mean rip me if they are scum, but I’d be surprised if they both are.

[Lady 7]

This g8 scum = l2 scum narrative is bullshit and probably being spread by scun to get something out of their worthless g8 slot

Lady 1 was town and she was the first one to say anything about it.
I'm also saying it's at least a possibility.

Would you like to point to what posts make you think Lady 2 is specifically town?
Or even just talk about the players that are spreading this information that are likely scum?

Actually lady 6 used lady 1 being the scum who was skipped over as the reason why lady 1 should be left out. Lady 1 just then used the same theory to apply it to lady 2.

[Lady 7]

G8 et L5 delendi sunt?

[Lady 7]

G5 feels artificially aggressive

Thank you. I'm reading through G5s iso, and I've been trying to identify how I feel about the tone. But that's it. I'm not sure what it says about his alignment, I'm not even sure it's scummy, but thanks for helping me put a finger on the tone.

[Lady 7]

So my real life dance partner left my lights on all night after moving my car. FML. Might as well talk about a few things while waiting for someone to jump my car.

Anyway, I read through G5, and I don't see where he's so obvscum. I agree with G1 that he's artificially aggressive; that was the one thing that was bugging me last night when reading his iso and I couldn't quite put my finger on it. But, I'm not so sure that's scummy. (Well I know how I feel about it, my kneejerk is that it's scummy but after getting into numerous fights with town who feel fake or artificially aggressive, I know it's not necessarily actually scummy it's just how some people approach town and how I approached being town way back.)

So besides that and a few generically scummy posts here and there he doesn't really feel like scum. There's quite a few thoughts here and there that he's brought up that are things I've wondered about in a similar fashion. His concerns on L9, L8 and L3 specifically jump to mind. I thought there was something else, but it's just something that popped out at me. I know it's super dangerous to decide someone is town because hey they're looking at the game in a similar lens as you because that's just such an egotistical way to read the game that I've seen people getting burned for over and over. But I can't deny that it makes me feel good about him.

G6 - I don't really see the way he's treated you and your read on L8 in the same way you expressed it the other night. I think you're cooling on this read and feeling a little bit, and I'm sure that it feels differently to you because you're close to it and it has to do with you personally. He's been suspecting L8 since he came into the game, and it looks like to me that he was trying to get you to give a read on L8 because he suspects her, not because he's trying to discredit any of your other reads due to L8. Does that make sense? I don't know if I'm misunderstanding your point though. The only thing that I saw that could come close to discrediting your reads was when he scoffed that you didn't have more certain reads 40something pages in to the game, which on the face of it isn't that much farther away than your suspicion that not having/outing town reads is scummy. Except he doesn't call you scum for it.

I also meta'd chennisden a little bit to see how he enters the game as scum, and the scum game I looked at, which wasn't that far off, was a little bit congenial and not very game related in entrance which felt different than here. I know that's kind of dangerous because extremely small sample size, this is an alt game, and he wasn't here for long, so this probably isn't really relevant actually, but it did have a different feel.

So all in all, this is a leaning town read, wherein my caution lies in the feeling of fake aggression and posts here and there that feel like him forcing himself to post something.

One of the things that I agreed on with G5 was concerns about L8. My initial impression of L8 was that she felt wooden and was asking questions that weren't all that game related. When I went back to reread the parts I skimmed, I found that my original impressions weren't really right. She was more involved in the actual game than I thought she was and there were some posts that felt a little bit more lifelike, but overall there was a generally flat tone. G5 described her as hollow, which is pretty much in line with what my feelings were there. The next thing that bugged me about L8 is the feeling that she's pandering to G6. Like the way she's said more than once how obvtown he is, he's a paragon, etc etc. In Marketplace III there was a scum hydra in which Quilford kept posting things his hydra partner N said and calling it obvtown. Sometimes the way she does it feels like that hydra. It just feels skeevy. I don't think doing it in general means that she's definitely scum; something about the way she just doesn't feel right. And I don't think it's because they're a scum hydra. It feels like pandering. The way she also attacks G5 feels the same way - constantly getting after him for death tunneling her all game is one thing that feels like using something to amp up the attack. And I really dislike the way she gets after him for not outing town reads, which just really feels like parroting G6.

I'm really really torn on this read though. There was something I liked about her saying she was a good late game player. I have absolutely no idea why I liked it at all, so please don't ask me to unpack that. It probably felt good rhythmically at the time of reading. I liked that she also said that she's playing slower so as not to altslip, which could explain some of the wooden feeling posts. There's also some well-timed snark I like. Which yeah none of the stuff I like is really alignment indicative, but it still pushes the needle a little. I liked her considerations on G8 yesterday. I don't particularly like her thinking she's obvtown though because much of her play has not actually been obvtown. I might not still have my +10 towniness ring, but I do know a little something about being an obvtown player, so when someone makes that claim while not being quite obvtown I'm like yes Bork I see you there. (This is not a main guess just a reminder of a time Bork was scum while trying to pretend he was obvtown.)

Anyway because L8 is paired up with someone I think is really really town, I'm not inclined to really scum read her or push this because there's no way in hell that I'm going after this slot unless I'm really really sure, which might never happen knowing me. Mostly in observation mode here.

G7 explained the possible associate between G8 and L2 in way that I understand more. It still feels weird to me that they'd both be scum though. G8 not coming in at all makes me concerned.

I see there's a case on G1, which is way more fleshed out than my original feel of sometimes posting to post concern.

Anyway the tl;dr of this post is that I'm leaning town on G5, but have a couple reservations and am concerned about L8 but I'm in observation mode.

Sorry I'm wordy. I should have some time later tonight when I get home from work to consider some of the other thoughts floating around in my head. My time starts to free up more on Wednesdays though.

[Lady 7]

Oops when talking about G5 above and I said that we shared concerns on L3, i meant to say G3.

[Lady 7]

L8 is scum!

[Lady 7]

Thought I'd beat him to it.

[Lady 7]

Hi L7 did you see my case on G1 do you agree that he's scum

I did see your case. I skimmed your case, and in my rambly post that no-one probably read I said that it looked like a way more fleshed out explanation than my earlier thought that most of his posts were posting to post.

I do think the has a decent chance to flip scum though I did not get a chance to actually read your case and get your points.

And I was thinking earlier today that L2 might actually be scum regardless of G8's alignment, but I feel really guilty saying that and I don't know why. I started reading her iso a little bit ago to pin down why I felt that way, and I just came away feeling super bad for thinking she might be scum. I don't think she sounds manipulative or ATEy in her posts so I don't know why I feel bad thinking she's scum, but I do.

Anyway I ran out of time today, bleh.

[Lady 7]

Oh I have a question I wanted to ask before i pass out. I almost forgot.

Why is it better to leave the policy lynch pair to the first lynch after intermission? How does that help rather than taking it out early before it can do damage if you mislynch?

[Lady 7]

G1?

Who do you like from the people below him?

Oh I ask because G1 was a bit of a conundrum for me. I liked some of his posts, but his quotestripe posts didn't felt kinda commenting to comment on things, which isn't in itself scummy because most everyone does it sometimes, but since it was mostly that one posting spree that I remember, I didn't get enough to get a feel for whether it was actually alignment indicative.

I appreciate the awareness displayed here. I have noticed “posting just to post” being commonly used, it feels like it might be a new buzzword. So deciding to write a cheap idea like that off seems towny.

I don't love this right here. I mean people know when they're just posting to post, and he has to know that some of the things he's commenting on don't really move the conversation at all. Which is okay sometimes, sometimes people just post to say I agree or because they feel compelled to comment on a particular post but it doesn't actually mean anything to the thread. It's a pretty common concern to see that and think it's suspicious.

What I don't like here is him calling it a buzzword and a cheap idea while also calling me towny for the way I went about it. I don't exactly know why it bugs me the way he phrased it. Maybe because it's downplaying, my actual valid concerns, while giving me a town treat for it?

[Lady 7]

G1 is definitely committed to the perpetual catchup post lifestyle. Like it could be genuine mediocre Townplay I guess but I agree it's a lot of nothing words. If he's scum, he may well see doubling down on giving reads (barely) based on material so far in the past that it's just disconnected from the entire game because he doesn't see another way into the game.

I guess what I'm saying is yeah my pair is a decent wagon, totally fair.

UNVOTE:

Thinking I need to reread G5 at least. Maybe also G4? I used to be very confident in G4 being Town. Now I'm questioning that a bit, more than I would have anticipated.

Lol L7 idk why you feel guilty about the thought that I might be scum but you shouldn't, not because I'm scum here but because whatever that's the game, in it, sometimes you think another player is scum, okay. I have some thoughts as to why actually, having said that, like I do think that we must have things in common as players in general so maybe it's partly that, like you feel guilty (irrationally) for scumreading a player you have things in common with as a player.

I don't necessarily mind being scumread and I definitely don't mind people scumreading G1 though I do think people saying blandly that lynching me would clarify some slots should think about where the valuable information would lie seeing me flip Town if we're the first lynch. Not necessarily discuss in great detail, but yeah. Information.

Regarding me: Maybe! It wasn't even a thought I had prior to today really, but I was thinking about the game at work and was like hmm L2?

Regarding G1: I'd prefer it if he got caught up and gave his reads and impressions then, but I've played enough games with Mastin to know that when people commit to this style they commit no matter how it affects the rest of the game. (Again, not a main guess, just a style similarity.)

[Lady 7]

*mastina, sorry.

[Lady 7]

Damn so I shouldn't have asked that question? FML

[Lady 7]

I think the lack of really

solid

scum reads this game is interesting.

I like it!

[Lady 7]

Mostly because well I lack confidence in reads early on especially scum ones, and because I like watching how the game behaves when there's not a clear lead where the lynch or the scum reads are going. I think it gives scum less room to hide and be able to craft their reads according to town's reads and hide in there.

[Lady 7]

Damn so I shouldn't have asked that question? FML

Oh this was @me

No I mean it's a pair that needs to be discussed and I don't see as a pair to take to endgame, just that it's something that

can

be divisive so scum want to use it to cause division especially if Town are strengthened by an early G1-scum lynch.

That was a joke. I had asked the question about why not get rid of the one every is treating like a policy lynch early instead of after intermission. I was just being silly after your comment.

[Lady 7]

I think scum want to aim to lose no scum before intermission, then kill me.

Is that an answer to my question about why not before intermission instead of after?

It's a personal concern about your legacy rather than optimal strategy?

If it's optimal strategy then I'm confused.

[Lady 7]

;(. There goes the last of my decent townreads. That sucks.

And I do not think I’m in a town/town pair right now. I’m not sure what to do about that.

I had a dream last night that we lynched g1 and he flipped scum, I left but didn’t see our flips, but I lynched g3 before that and he flipped town and g6 accused me of throwing the game because he said he was town. In my dream we each got a chance to pick a lynch target rather than group decide.

I’m not sure what to think that my biggest suspects are the men, but I, hoping the disappearing act l9 did was to keep the ic alive and not because she’s scum, but I worry about that one and hopefully if she’s town she’ll get their buts out here and do something.

I don’t read in night, so I don’t really have any new thoughts.

[Lady 7]

vote: gentleman one

Want to talk about this read some more later when I get back home. Also will talk about my g7 read then too.

[Lady 7]

Did g8 ever show up in your chat l5?

[Lady 7]

Bleh not gonna lie. I’ve lost some interest in this game. On the one hand I’m super happy I’m so overly invested in the game that the anti-town shenanigans of first dance cost us 4 town in the worst way possible, but on the other hand it’s extremely demotivating especially when nobody is behaving obviously town. There’s no touchstone here, I have concerns I’m not in a t/t pair which gives me no real reason to fight, and the only other person I know is town is only by virtue of the mid telling me so, but he’s the most useless ICs I’ve ever seen. I thought maybe he, and l9, were holding back to escape the nightkill, but they both entered today with useless posts at best.

The l5/g8 team needs to go for on the one hand not doing shit and on the other for contribution. Some of the contribution is put terrible when you can understand it, but so much of it’s been so distracting. One thing I do not like right now is acting like l9 cannot be suspected and g7 is scum for being concerned that the ic pair didn’t die because l9 is scum. But a lot of l5’s thoughts are super surface, which might represent her level of play rather than scum? IDK.

Why isn’t l9 scum? Come on people, her approach to the game is so scum motivated it’s ridiculous. Starts off strong with some analytical posts early day one and then floats on the laurels of early town reads for the rest of the game. How is this town? How is this above suspicion? I also don’t like her post today, mostly in the part where she feels the need to include her being young oerslective. It’s like no shit, you don’t need to qualify that but sometimes scum do. Also if g1 is scum, she poo-pooed my earlier read on g1 for posting to post. Look at her beginning of first dance hop onto g5, which seemed to be sleeping g6 predance rather than any kind of assessment of her own.

So what is town about her? I don’t see it. Also if there are five pairs left and she confidently likes l6/g3, what that Piet should have said is she’s willing to tear through the last three pairs because they contain all the pairs. So why specifically say your taking a hard eye in 7-7. Kinda makes me think we’re actually a town town pair she needs to get rid of.

I don’t get the town reads in g3 either really. He just feels like scum. I hate him not trying to read his partner and just saying well g6 called her town so it’s his fault if we lose cuz of that.

Not sure about l6. I’m not overly suspicious there, but I don’t know how much this is g6 really vouching there, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she flips scum.

G1 just really overall looks like scum. A lot a lot of his posts are just posting. And hey you know what I do this too, it’s not scum indicative in a vacuum, but a lot of empty posting that says nothing and just comments is a concern, especially when you’re perpetually 2000 posts behind. Like, if you’re town figure out a different method cuz this one isn’t working. That on top of getting pissy because people are pointing out his empty posts and acting like it’s some buzzword instead of a manner of scumhunting that’s been around since the inception of mafia is terrible. I especially did not like this post:

Before G6 leaves I would like to call out that I feel several players have been rather uninvolved in the proceedings recently. I want to try a more direct call out soon.

Mostly because he wasn’t trying to stop the shit from happening, so why be planning to call people out? He made a post which said people should only leave if they suspect their partners, but that’s it. Hi pocrisy isn’t a scumtell, but this just reads wrong. I do like some things that g1 posts, but he feels like scum in a vacuum.

I don’t have a tangible reason to think g7 is scum, some of it is just a flat tone and sometimes the sense that sometimes he’s posting what he thinks town him would post, but that one is difficult to be confident about without knowing the main.

So that’s where I’m at, a big fat no place. I don’t know how g6 thought so many people were being obvtown here. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m super rusty, or if obvtown has become such a useless commodity these days p, but I just don’t see it. And normally, I’d step in and try to be a guide, but it’s difficult when you’re tethered to someone you’re not sure is town. Right now I’m trying to figure out if I should try to get a scum lynch or if I should leave. It’s weird.

Anyway it’d be really nice if the town in this town started acting like it.

[Lady 7]

*im super happy I’m not so overly invested that that behavior pissed me off.

Weird I’m not drunk just can’t finish thoughts apparently.

[Lady 7]

Gods isuck at phone posting, sorry

[Lady 7]

I am also willing to move to G8, the longer this crap goes on the longer I can't believe he might be town somehow.

[Lady 7]

How L5 wasn't force replaced at the first instance of rule breaking I have no idea.

Like how is threatening replacement, talking to other people outside of the game, and maybe inside of the game, to replace her slot, and now threatening a mod to throw the game and demand someone else be replaced acceptable in any way, shape or form?

[Lady 7]

Why isn’t l9 scum? Come on people, her approach to the game is so scum motivated it’s ridiculous. Starts off strong with some analytical posts early day one and then floats on the laurels of early town reads for the rest of the game. How is this town? How is this above suspicion? I also don’t like her post today, mostly in the part where she feels the need to include her being young oerslective. It’s like no shit, you don’t need to qualify that but sometimes scum do. Also if g1 is scum, she poo-pooed my earlier read on g1 for posting to post. Look at her beginning of first dance hop onto g5, which seemed to be sleeping g6 predance rather than any kind of assessment of her own.

So what is town about her? I don’t see it. Also if there are five pairs left and she confidently likes l6/g3, what that Piet should have said is she’s willing to tear through the last three pairs because they contain all the pairs. So why specifically say your taking a hard eye in 7-7. Kinda makes me think we’re actually a town town pair she needs to get rid of.

I mentioned your pair because I thought it was T-T yesterday but now with so many town flips I've changed my mind, plus determining between your pair and gent 3/lady 6 is pretty important. I think there is a sort of consensus agreement that lady 5/gent 8 and lady 2/gent 1 are both getting lynched today, which leaves your pair, Gent 3/Lady 6, and my pair. And I don't know what Gent 2 is thinking right now

This makes sense. It sounded like you weren't looking at g3/l6 today which was alarming. I know g6 locked town both of them and maybe they are, but I'm not convinced. As it is I'm concerned myself about my own pairing, and if I could get some confident town reads elsewhere it would help in solidifying that concern.

[Lady 7]

I am also willing to move to G8, the longer this crap goes on the longer I can't believe he might be town somehow.

Can you vote G8? Save the mod the hassle?

Considering it.

[Lady 7]

I haven’t taken it fully back g7! I’m just concerned that l9 is setting up the game for a scum win.

I guess I’ll have to wait a bit to hear the structuring scumtell. If it is what I think it is, it was a bad tell floating around a few sites a few years ago and should have never been born. But if it’s not gonna hat, I look forward to hearing a new bad tell!

Lady 2 - *hug*. I’m sorry you’re having troubles. I hope you feel better soon. Depression is no fun.

Edit: nope it’s a new one. I’ll have you know my power points are just outlines that I never read from. I think the better description of them came from another player long ago who said it’s like reading a diary of someone’s thoughts as they’re floating around trying to make sense if the game.

I’d never read straight from a power point. I’m no amateur!

[Lady 7]

Or as meaner people say, I just say a lot of nothing

But better people can see I’m getting my thoughts out there, and sometimes I have good thoughts, and from that we can work together to solve the game. Sometimes :/

[Lady 7]

Or as meaner people say, I just say a lot of nothing

But better people can see I’m getting my thoughts out there, and sometimes I have good thoughts, and from that we can work together to solve the game. Sometimes :/

Was the condescension necessary?

Um?

What?

I don’t know how me amused at how people have approached my posts in the past has anything to do with you, but you’re the one who called my actual town thoughts and attempts to read the game and solve it like I’m reading from a power point rather than solving, so Im not sure what your reaction is about here.

[Lady 7]

I guess I’ll have to wait a bit to hear the structuring scumtell. If it is what I think it is, it was a bad tell floating around a few sites a few years ago and should have never been born. But if it’s not gonna hat, I look forward to hearing a new bad tell!

But better people can see I’m getting my thoughts out there, and sometimes I have good thoughts, and from that we can work together to solve the game. Sometimes :/

Those don’t even go together. You just chopped things up to take it out of context to try to be offended.

[Lady 7]

I haven’t taken it fully back g7! I’m just concerned that l9 is setting up the game for a scum win

A.
I guess I’ll have to wait a bit to hear the structuring scumtell. If it is what I think it is, it was a bad tell floating around a few sites a few years ago and should have never been born. But if it’s not gonna hat, I look forward to hearing a new bad tell!

Lady 2 - *hug*. I’m sorry you’re having troubles. I hope you feel better soon. Depression is no fun.

B.
Edit: nope it’s a new one. I’ll have you know my power points are just outlines that I never read from. I think the better description of them came from another player long ago who said it’s like reading a diary of someone’s thoughts as they’re floating around trying to make sense if the game.

I’d never read straight from a power point. I’m no amateur!

A and B fro this post go together. B is me acknowledging that it’s not the tell I thought you were going to go with, and then making a bit of a joke about myself.

[Lady 7]

Or as meaner people say, I just say a lot of nothing

But better people can see I’m getting my thoughts out there, and sometimes I have good thoughts, and from that we can work together to solve the game. Sometimes :/

These two go together and continue what people have said about my posts.

[Lady 7]

I’m just thrown that something I said as partly self-deprecating is somehow condescending.

[Lady 7]

And if you actually believe in your scum read and the basis for it, stick around. Put my feet to the fire. Don’t run away because it’s not productive.

Petit: in my first post about the tell, I was expecting the length of paragraph structuring scum tell. That was a horrible scum tell people were trying to pass off some years back. In my petit, I said nope new one, not the tell I was expecting. Then I said the best description I’ve gotten concerning my posts and how I run through my thoughts. I wasn’t making any comment on your ability to scumhunt. I was saying what other people have said about me and how I make my posts. The floating diary is my favorite. I then made a joke about PowerPoints. The next post was me referencing how sometimes people have been mean in the way they address me, but better - not mean- sometimes see the value in my posts.

None of that was me making a comment on your ability as a scum hunter. It was about me and the various comments I’ve gotten on my posts throughout the years.

[Lady 7]

We are in a really difficult situation. L5 creeps me out. Despite being a confirmed replacement, the tone is eerily similar. I really detest the fact both G6 and G5 died. I really don't like leading early but I feel compelled to take charge here.

Lady 7, I know you didn't like how I phrased things. There's not much I can do on that. The only thing that can be done is continuing to scumhunt. The feeling on you is mutual, but I think you're likely town. If I knew your main, I could assess much easier if the collective was correct on you.

Is the second half to me?

[Lady 7]

We are in a really difficult situation. L5 creeps me out. Despite being a confirmed replacement, the tone is eerily similar. I really detest the fact both G6 and G5 died. I really don't like leading early but I feel compelled to take charge here.

Lady 7, I know you didn't like how I phrased things. There's not much I can do on that. The only thing that can be done is continuing to scumhunt. The feeling on you is mutual, but I think you're likely town. If I knew your main, I could assess much easier if the collective was correct on you.

Is the second half to me?

I know it says l7, but you addressed me earlier about something that wasn’t about me so I’m not sure.

[Lady 7]

I see, I apologize.

Not a problem. Online communication and intent can be tricky.

I’m wordy and sometimes come at things in roundabout ways that sometimes don’t have a clear conclusion. I’ve gotten crap about it since I started playing until people get used to me. My beacon works how it works and it’s not gonna change.

[Lady 7]

*my brain works....

Have I mentioned how much I suck at phone posting

[Lady 7]

We are in a really difficult situation. L5 creeps me out. Despite being a confirmed replacement, the tone is eerily similar. I really detest the fact both G6 and G5 died. I really don't like leading early but I feel compelled to take charge here.

Lady 7, I know you didn't like how I phrased things. There's not much I can do on that. The only thing that can be done is continuing to scumhunt. The feeling on you is mutual, but I think you're likely town. If I knew your main, I could assess much easier if the collective was correct on you.

Is the second half to me?

I know it says l7, but you addressed me earlier about something that wasn’t about me so I’m not sure.

It is.

Okay. I don't think knowing my main would help you on reading me, but you might be happy to see me?

What do you think of G3? Do you think you're in a town/town pair and if so, why?

[Lady 7]

Glanced through the dance PT, L5 has been talking to herself a lot. Out of context it looks pretty solvey but seems to assume I'm town. I'm not tracking down timestamps to figure out when she was having specific thoughts about things, but does the assumption I'm town make sense?

It doesn't make that much sense? Your predecessor was a complete blank slate who barely posted, and if I recall correctly didn't post anything game related at all. The opinions on your alignment based on the way your predecessor went about choosing your partner are mixed. Some people think you're definitely scum for it, the dead l4 thought you might have chosen l5 because she was such a distraction, and others thought you might be town because the basic consensus predance was that if anyone chose your dance partner they were going to be policy lynched immediately. But really who knows with L5 numero uno because she was a very very very special case.

[Lady 7]

Gentleman 2 - Lady 9
Gentleman 7 - Lady 7
Gentleman 3 - Lady 6
Gentleman 8 - Lady 5
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2

So OP gives me these pairs to work with. Who is obvtown?

Nobody is obviously town, not even G2 the IC, and it's driving me bonkers. I think I feel the best about L2 and L6, but I wouldn't bet the game on it.

(Except me, I'm obviously town, but I'm not sure if my beacon is shining.)

[Lady 7]

That's the million dollar question. L5 numero uno thought scum didn't kill the IC to set L9 up. This IC, IC Junior, hasn't been around all that much and doesn't really seem to be reading the game. L9 made a strong showing early game and garnered some early town reads and the original IC chose her because he wanted someone to analyze the game with. Well then IC Sr became IC Jr and he and L9 pretty much dipped from the game. I was hoping that it was so that they could avoid the night kill and would come out swinging in dance two, but that's not really been the case.

So who knows?

I've suspected G3 since earlyish? IDK. G6 declared he knew L6 and G3's main and they were both town without a doubt due to meta, and nobody has really questioned that.

We're basically in a really weird space. Dance I ended prematurely with a town implosion and two towns going at each other and both leaving the dance, and then my last two town reads died in intermission, and here we are swimming in goo.

[Lady 7]

What does he look like he's doing right now that he would have needed to be coached extensively to do?

[Lady 7]

G8/L5 has even more strikes against it than it did before, and it already had too many
G2/L9 probably would have died had L9 been town and L9 has not been impressive anyway
G1/L2 definitely can't live.

G7/L7 is the only other pair I would consider letting live, and they should probably be the other final pair apart from us.

I agree with this quite a bit, and the only thing that would change my mind on this is if L5/G8 flips T/T.
VOTE: Lady 5

I'm kind of getting a bit paranoid of L7 myself, but I'm not sure if this is something that could come from scum to have her flip between scumreading me and then taking it back soon after. I firmly believe G3 is town, L5 is actually probably town but I think that pair shouldn't stick around until the end and out of the remaining people, they should probably go first.

G1/L2 should go as well, but I feel more confident that they will flip T/S in some way, while this might flip T/T, and is going to be more impactful on the game if that happens.

[Lady 7]

It's a lot clearer than G8 is scum from my point of view, where I know I'm town, than it would be for you guys. For the coaching thing, his partners could have been telling him what to say when he came back (the old G8) and the new G8 could have picked that up right away upon coming in.

If the scum isn't in l5/g8, but also isn't me, what does the scumteam look like?

I almost just logged into my main :/

I mean that’s the rub right? If you’re town you have the certainty of knowing you’re in a t/t pair, but none of us do. And I don’t have enough to go on to trust that you are a t/t pair either, and part of that might not be your fault if you are town due to town going total war at each other and ending the day early. And I’m probably never going to really have some semblance of trust in my reads this game due to how this game has played out so far.

I don’t think the likelihood I’m in a t/t pair is very high, but I don’t feel comfortable leaving before my concerns about g7 outweigh my concerns about the people positioning to go to the end.

But what did he say that looked like coaching because it looked like general questions to me, and I can’t imagine anyone needing coaching for that. And if it’s not about what’s been said so far, I don’t get preemptively shading what he might be posting. L5 was a mess from her first post and g8 has been absent, yes it’s entirely likely one of them is scum, but it’s also possible they're not right?

I get we don’t have a lot of time but I also don’t get the rush.

[Lady 7]

As for my commentary, it’s actually my way of demonstrating to myself that my catch up is making progress. I noted that it was feeling ineffective at one point before, that was because tracking the page counts from time to time I noticed the gap was not shrinking. So it keeps me from feeling hopeless about my efforts. I do mean it when I say it is a rather cheap-feeling reason to scumread me. A lot of those have seemed to surface during my years of playing mafia and that is probably the most recent one I have noticed.

I forgot I wanted to respond to this. If I can’t read you by what you post, the quality of those posts and reactions, then what can I read you by? It’s not surface or cheap, definitely not when scum often have a harder time posting stuff that moves the game forward and therefore post to be busy. That takes a bunch of different forms, and no the action of making post to post posts is not in and of itself scummy. I post to list al, the time. I comment on things that I just feel like commenting on sometimes but don’t really do anything for the game. And I’ve gotten called out for it and bitched at for it, and it’s irritating when that happens I know.

But I’ve stuck on this feeling for a couple reasons. It doesn’t feel like it’s gotten better, and when it feels like the majority of women Rc is busy work then I get concerned, and I’m sorry if I’m harping on you and you’re town and this is just your process. But you have to know why people would be concerned by some of your contribution, so it’s the reaction in calls it cheap that bugs me because it doesn’t feel like a town reaction to me. If I’m surface level reading you, what should I be seeing that I’m not?

[Lady 7]

It's not that he's definitely being coached, it's that he could be getting coached due to the large absence and mafia wanting him to do something to prevent his own death

What are your concerns about people positioning to go to the end?

I’m not entirely confident on you or on g3. Why are you confident on the g3 townread?

[Lady 7]

I’m about to pass out so I’ll have to answer anything else tomorrow.

[Lady 7]

It's not that he's definitely being coached, it's that he could be getting coached due to the large absence and mafia wanting him to do something to prevent his own death

I mean thoigh this kinda looks like fake paranoia.

[Lady 7]

I like you a lot lady 2!

[Lady 7]

Yeah same.

G2, L2 and to a lesser extent L6 are the reads I feel best about. I think I'd feel better if I could get those L6/G3 wiggins out of my back pocket.

Was super hoping to come home from work to see a fresh pair of eyes in L5/G8. Hopes dashed.

I've got a stupid cold, so I'm going to sleep hopefully. Be around tomorrow.

[Lady 7]

We do need to start making some decisions though because we basically have until midnight Saturday, my time anyway, to finish this up. Right? 4 days and some change from this post.

[Lady 7]

Waking up to nothing from g8 is disappointing.

I know that people want lynches to be held accountable, but maybe we should discuss leaving strategies at least among the pairs that have suspicions rather than hope we get enough lynches.

My biggest concern though is the g3 and l9 pairing because they’re not going to leave.

I mean this game is probably a wash and a loss anyway, but it’d be nice if we could forceone scum pairing out at least.

[Lady 7]

The entire pre-dance phase, he's not angling to set himself up with a survivable partner, which I think is one of scum's main goals.

Uhh... I'm pretty sure I was more interested than anyone else in finding a survivable partner.

And this is what has garnered you suspicion so yeah this reasoning for this read makes no sense

[Lady 7]

L9 why do you think g2 will give one direction. He’s not even bothering to read anything. He’s just Bernie.

[Lady 7]

Actual footage of g2 at a party.

[Lady 7]

Soooo the game is pretty stagnant, we haven’t come to a decision for a lynch, and I do t think I’m in a town/town pair anyway. I’m seriously considering leaving tonight before I head to bed. That gives you guys 3 days and a couple flips to work with.

[Lady 7]

It's pretty skeevy to act like you're above suspicion because dead town said you're town especially when if I'm not mistaken was based on thinking he knew your main. And placing that blind trust to just call you town because dead town said so in an alt game no less is dangerous.

[Lady 7]

Actual footage of g2 at a party.

Sorry, I'm the kinda guy who will try a few times to break into the conversation organically and then when that turns out to be unsuccessful I usually act out a bit because I'm a baby and need to control my emotions better then I calm down and make good faith efforts to build bridges with people or lean on someone as a crutch but after getting ignored enough times and literally seeing my posts disappear in an ever growing thread I lose interest and therefore desire to post its especially exasperating when your dance partner claims to be as unsure of everything going on as like the 3rd person to hold this slot which i find curious.

I know people think l9 could be scum, i dont think thats a bad read.

Knwoing that, where should I be looking for todays lynch?

I'm sorry that you feel left out! I don't think I was around when you popped in to talk to people, but I'm sorry if I was and ignored you.

L9 seems uncertain of what's going on?

[Lady 7]

Soooo the game is pretty stagnant, we haven’t come to a decision for a lynch, and I do t think I’m in a town/town pair anyway. I’m seriously considering leaving tonight before I head to bed. That gives you guys 3 days and a couple flips to work with.

Don't, I will go instead.

I don't know for sure, I feel bad because what if I'm wrong and G1 is Town but honestly I do trust you L7 and I think G1 is more likely scum than G7. I would hate to be wrong though! I agree that the game seems like an uphill battle from here at best and it would feel really terrible to not even force out one scum but I do actually think G1 is more likely scum than G7.

Still want L9 gone. I guess if I'm wrong and G1 is Town then I don't even know, but certainly if he's scum that pair will have to go.

I hope you recover well from your cold.

Edit: I won't leave for the next 12 hours which I guess means I

will

leave tomorrow morning unless there's a very compelling reason not to do so. Sound good?

I just don't really know. I was suspicious of G7 early on, but then he made a couple posts I thought were better, but I just don't get many town feels there. He just doesn't feel town. The day of the first dance, I checked into the qt to say hi and that Monday was busy for me and I'd not likely be around. He viewed it but didn't check in himself, which I thought seemed like maybe he was nervous and didn't know what to post. L3 told him that I was going to give him an update (I'm not sure why L3 told him that really) and he said okay I'll keep refreshing the page. But didn't say to her that I'd already checked in and said I wouldn't be around, and he didn't ask me for the update I was apparently going to give him. I kept checking from work to see if he was around and wanted to chat and noticed the numbers kept going up, so I posted something about that. Quite frankly it was weirding me out because the views kept rising with no comments, so I wondered if mafia got the qt to look at for all their pairs. Anyway, he did respond to that with some reads, which sounded fine. (Though he did have G3 as a light dunno town read, which somewhat reads weird now with how confident he is on that read.)

After the town implosion, I posted a couple times about my reaction to the implosion, and he responded, but he threw in a hopefully you're town remark, which just felt weird in the post. Like it felt like when your neighbor is scum and they're trying to make it look like they're reading you and are paranoid but something feels off about that? '

We haven't really talked much in the qt, but it just felt off from the start.

See so that's nothing really tangible, just a kind of sense that he's trying to post what he thinks town him would post like rather than him being town and posting. Oh he also thought that G6 looked scummy because he thought L8 was probably scum but didn't want to leave the dance until second dance after he caught scum, which also felt like a bit of fake paranoia.

So yeah I just really don't know and maybe my concerns there are silly but it feels really unlikely I'm with town right now.

[Lady 7]

I trust G6 to be right more than I trust any living player, I'll tell you that right now.

He's dead now, you don't have to keep kissing his ass >>

[Lady 7]

I'm teasing by the way.

[Lady 7]

BUT I don't really care too much if you're using it for back up on your read on L6, but it feels like you're using it to say that we're not allowed to suspect you which is what feels skeevy.

[Lady 7]

There's almost certainly no higher EV play than trusting G6 and leaving my couple alive, by the way. We've pretty much lost any hope of playing this game in any sort of reasonable way and so I'm willing to just bite the bullet and say we lose if L6 is scum.

But you certainly feel that way when you make posts like this. So maybe you're not saying hey guys g6 is the best scumhunter that ever lived and he said I'm town and don't lynch me so you can't do it or you'll hear about it in end game, it feels like you're doing that.

[Lady 7]

and maybe it would be pretty ballsy of you to say what you actually said if you are scum, and maybe if you were scum you'd play down your approach of just making it to endgame, but it just really feels wrong.

[Lady 7]

I mean there's no formal difference between what you're saying and me saying "you shouldn't lynch me," something which I certainly have the right to say. It sounds like the difference is that what you're accusing me of has an emotional appeal involved (such as the implicit threat of G6 being disappointed or mad), but I don't really see what's leading you to the conclusion that I've made such an appeal. The only emotional appeal in that quoted post was me expressing frustration that the game went the way it did.

I don't think you're making an emotional appeal. It sounds more like an appeal to authority. It's something scum do pretty often in endgame when they're being suspected..."dead town read me so I'm town." (And yes, I'm perfectly aware town do it too.)

[Lady 7]

It's just that I don't know. I don't quite trust you, and I'm not going to just trust G6 either. I'm sure he's a great scumhunter, but I'm an adult with a mind of my own and not too shabby myself. Well in my day I wasn't, we'll have to see if the rust shakes off and what I'm like then. BUT I'm not at the point where I'm like YES they're town and a town pair I trust.

But I also don't care a whole heck of a lot because I don't think this game is winnable, except for maybe if you are a t/t pair?

[Lady 7]

I don't think you're making an emotional appeal. It sounds more like an appeal to authority.

Appeal to authority is "Person of authority X believes Y, so it must be true." I'm saying "Person of authority X believes Y, so it's more likely to be true." That's not a fallacy.

I don't care that you're using it to base your read on L6.

I care that it looks like you're using it to make people think you're town. What our whole conversation is about.

It does not matter to me if you say I'm sheeping dead town G6 on L6 because I trust that he can read her and I have no read.

I care that it feels like you're trying to apply it to your pair as a whole. Like we should trust you because G6 did. That's my problem.

[Lady 7]

Even if you don’t believe my case on elements at least believe Mastina and Nacho’s cases on me since they have already flipped town

I don’t know if that would help you but if I was in your situation it would help me

Like this. This is scum Oversoul in endgame, going believe dead town about their town read on me.

It feels like you're doing the same thing.

You might not be, maybe that's not your intention, but that's what it feels like to me.

[Lady 7]

Right before I go, what are your current reads, L7?

I'm late for pilates, answer when I"m back, but scroll up I'm pretty sure I said my reads last night?

[Lady 7]

All right, I'm around until my dinner's done and then I've got to get some real life work done before bed.

[Lady 7]

I didn't check in immediately, if that's what you mean, because I was reading through the thread at the time. As for L3, I don't really know why it would be useful to tell her you weren't around, and I kind of thought you didn't really care. I'd already read the thread, so I didn't need an update. I was just refreshing the page in case you happened to be around.

I didn't really care about you telling L3 that I wasn't around; it just all goes to the sense that I had of you related to the neighborhood.

[Lady 7]

Right before I go, what are your current reads, L7?

I'm late for pilates, answer when I"m back, but scroll up I'm pretty sure I said my reads last night?

Fair.

I'll look when I am back.

@L7:

L2: Major townvibes. Particularly 3966. If I pick an endgame pair right now, it's this one.

Thoughts?

G2 is town duh

L2 is the strongest read I have for town. I've liked her presence all game, but it's been in the second dance that I've started actually thinking of that as a town read instead of liking the player around read.

L6 is a light town read. This read is backed up by how sure G6 and L8 felt about her as well as me being pretty sure I know who she is due to G6 giving clues to her identity. I have a hard time reading her and usually read her based on her pushes and interactions, which hasn't really been toooo present this game except for believing that G8 is scum because of how he chose dance partners. Anyway she, if I'm right on her, hasn't played in any way that I've seen her play as either alignment before but she's made some remarks about real life issues, so. But even so I think overall she's been a bit agenda less, even if I don't agree with her reasoning for the G8 scum read. I do have some paranoia here that G3 waited to ask anyone because he was waiting for L6 to become active so they could be a scum/scum pair. But while I felt pretty strongly about that predance, I don't really buy it anymore.

I wish I had more town reads I felt somewhat comfortable with.

Earlier I was in part town leaning L5 because she was such a mess. And by mess I mean the bestest mafia player every of course. It was basically a scum really wouldn't act like this really? Would they? I didn't really read her posts all that much because I thought for sure she'd be left out of the dane due to her behavior, but. Anyway I don't know how much I should town read the mess because maybe it's personality? But anyway a lot of the posts I did read, I just couldn't believe she actually believed what she was saying. So IDK here.

I had a theory that G8 might be town because he asked L5 to dance. Predance it was widely accepted that if L5 was asked to the dance, that pair would be lynched immediately as a policy lynch. My thought was that even though G8 wasn't around, he'd had a mafia qt and they'd tell him to choose anyone but L5 because he'd be gone right away. But then G8 stayed missing, so.

L9 I've had some light suspicion on for a good portion of the game. She started out strong and analytical, but then kinda disappeared. She made a post sometime predance where she said she thought the IC should direct the pairs and when he says go she goes, etc, which felt like pandering to the IC. IDK maybe we all have different ways we feel the IC should be approached. She opened up dance with a vote on G5, which looked in large part to be sheeping the g6 read that he had softened on. More recently I think the concerns that G8 could be coached feel off.

I've had concerns about G1 most of the game for what looks mostly like busywork posting. Unfortunately he's been behind this whole time so it's been hard to get a concrete feel. I didn't quite like the reaction to the concerns that he was busywork posting.

I liked G3's game presence all game but that never quite translated into a town read the way L2 did. I think with G3 my biggest concern was that he had this idea for how the game should pan out with pairs, but he was mostly just concerned with how it would affect himself. He does look and is super survivalistic, my wonder here is would scum be so open about their process in that way? Often times scum would be a little more self-aware of how they're coming across in being so survivalistic, so would he try to be more subtle about that? (I'm not depending on G6 for this read because I don't have any clue for an alt there and it seemed like G6's read was based partly on an alt guess, that I can't be sure he's correct on, and he gave that strong town read at first when he was tunneling on G5 and G5 was suspecting G3. I know he continued that read into dance 1 though.)

G7 for the most part has felt pretty flat for me all game. There are a few posts that I liked, but a lot of the early posts were mostly mechanical based. I don't have a smoking gun, it's just a tonal gut thing, and without knowing his main I just don't know if this is personality based on alignment based. But the likelihood I'm in a town/town pair feels pretty low.

[Lady 7]

Are you going to leave the dance before you head to bed?

G8 asked for 12 hours before anybody left. I'll give him the night, and check in in the morning and me and L2 can duke it out over who gets to leave first in the morning

[Lady 7]

I do think it's important that we have someone leave soon though. The people left need enough time to discuss who is going next and we don't have much time.

[Lady 7]

Now i feel like he's town.

[Lady 7]

Now i feel like he's town.

Of course you do.

Gonna be honest, I haven't felt too good about lady 7 for a while now, they kept saying they were going to leave so I was waiting to see what was happening with that. Their recent development is what I expected if she were actually scum. I'm even proposing that, while possibly unlikely, pair 7-7 has a chance of being a double scum pair here, barring that, one of gent 7/lady 7 is very likely to be scum on their own

VOTE: Gent 7/Lady 7

Do better!

This is beneath you and dumb.

[Lady 7]

You are wrong about G7's position on G3 by the way G1.

G7 is town reading G3 for spurious reasons, which G3 pointed out, and then G7 was like oh you're right but here's how it still makes you town...

[Lady 7]

@Lady 2

Don't leave while the 7-7 pair is still alive, please

You know I'm not scum.

Though this is probably the best laugh I've had since the town implosion this game, so do keep it up.

[Lady 7]

If people want me to leave, I am as I've said all day, perfectly fine leaving.

People asked for more time, I gave it.

[Lady 7]

I read L9s play right now as scrambling scum seeing the walls closing in on her and her hopes for making it to the end with confirmed town and going lol last jokes on you sucka I'm town dwindling dwindling dwindling.

[Lady 7]

I'm sorry what was the question g1? Was it when you basically just came out here and said what I've been saying and proposing all day as if it was some novel thing you just thought of? Because yeah.

G2 - I know you shouldn't be sheeping your dance partner, but beyond that I dunno.

[Lady 7]

You know I'm not scum.

This is a pretty weird post to be making if you're as certain that I'm scum that you say you are, right?

I've been calling you scum for a long time yes.

I think you're scum, yes.

I don't think you're town, no.

Therefore you as scum know I'm not scum. You know I'm town and this stupid dance is just you being the scum you are.

It's showing, sorry.

Yes, I'm being snarky, sorry but like if you're town WOW. Like WOW. I haven't seen town with this much scum agenda showing in ages. I'm leaving I've said I'm leaving. Me having a moment where I doubt my partner being scum and think maybe I'm wrong isn't changing the fact that I'm leaving it's just me having a moment of doubt.

[Lady 7]

And if you don't leave, I'm ready to force your hand.

Just so you know this is the exact opposite way of getting me to leave you literal scumfuck.

[Lady 7]

vote lady nine

[Lady 7]

I would like to note I feel like L9 raises a good point about how L7 has been positioning herself regarding leaving, but I also feel like L2 has done a bit of that herself, which is kind of why I feel like I should leave.

Look I said I would leave tonight before i went to bed if there was no movement. Lady 2 asked me not to yet, and more importantly G8 asked for 12 hours.

I said fine, we can figure it out in the morning.

How either of you is jumping to that being scum is wayyyyyyyyy beyond me.

[Lady 7]

Wow, Lady 7 really got aggressive all of a sudden.

I tend to get that way when scum are acting like scum.

[Lady 7]

You said you'd leave, yes, but I think you always intended for L2 to be the one to leave, and after you'd come up with a reason why you need another lynch to go through, like me

You're not this dumb.

[Lady 7]

This folks is what people call fake as shit paranoia.

It's scum trying to act like they're paranoid and suspect something they don't actually suspect.

[Lady 7]

vote lady nine

Yikes. You answer my call, and then stomp on my grundle.

It's not going to go through. I'm leaving in the morning. I just want my suspicion placed and marked.

[Lady 7]

And if we do end up being a double town flip, I want L9s head because there's no way that's town. There's just no way.

[Lady 7]

BYE

[Lady 7]

Leaving the dance

HAVE FUN SUCKAS