Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

[Thestatusquo]

Alisae do you still think pooky is scum? Like relative to furtive and PP?

[Thestatusquo]

I mean maybe I'm going crazy but I feel like shirou and alisae have mostly been arguing the same things this game so I don't understand why Alisae wants to keep coins away from shirou in the first place.

[Thestatusquo]

I have decided that tbone is town. UNVOTE:

[Thestatusquo]

How dare you insult enchant like this.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm still waiting to hear why alisae didn't want shirou to have coins despite seemingly being on the same side of most arguments in this game

[Thestatusquo]

I can't really think of a major point in this game that shirou and alisae have disagree on, i might need to reread the isos but to me the desire to not have shirou get money came out of nowhere.

[Thestatusquo]

If there's been large points of tension between alisae and shirou I've missed them. If they've been sussing each other I've missed it.

I tend to think of thread momentum in terms of teams. Not like, Mafia v town necessarily, but in terms of sides in discussion, and trying to make the conversation go a certain way. In my mind they've definitely been on the same thread team for most of the game without actually acknowledging each other that much so it's jarring to me to hear that alisae didn't want shirou in particular to have money, it kind of seems weird to me.

This is all just based off of my memory/vague feelings about how the game went which is why I asked if i was crazy when i mentioned this earlier. Gamma says she has the same feeling though but i still probably do need to go read the isos.

[Thestatusquo]

It's also weird for alisae to claim strong feelings about shirou not getting money when every other post is about being lost and having no idea on reads and if we go back to early discussion an insistence that they didn't care about mech or money at all.

It's... Weird. It feels like it could be an attempt at distancing in two players who otherwise have extremely high partner equity imo.

[Thestatusquo]

I like i just looked back and i see shirou was in the "possible 2 wolves here" pile but i guess i didn't clock it really because again it seems to me like they've been on the same side in most arguments so i am actually not sure why i didn't notice this at the time because that read feels weird too.

[Thestatusquo]

What the fuck dude?

[Thestatusquo]

Like are you ok? That seemed like needlessly rude?

[Thestatusquo]

No, i think you did, actually.

[Thestatusquo]

I was literally answering a question so maybe you can fuck off with that.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess like maybe I'm reading too much into it and maybe it was indeed a joke but in terms of motivation I dont know why you would want me to stop talking about my thoughts on the game? I'mma drop it I guess.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you agree that you and Alisae have generally been on the same "team" in the sense that I'm using it in terms of where you fall in terms of the thread discussion?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm gunna push back on the claim that the game was ever borderline unreadable.

There's been lots of posts in this game yes but I think there has been next to no spam. The signal to noise ratio in this game is actually ridiculously high and I don't know why you would complain about that as town, but it sure does seem like a convenient thing to repeatedly mention as scum, which is weird because I've seen you play town a bunch in games that had plenty of posting in them and I don't think I've seen you have that particular complaint before.

i.e. it feels like the situation is the same that I've seen furtive in before but he's reacting differently which makes me think theres a motivational shift.

[Thestatusquo]

Like describing valid game posts as "spam" is a tactic I've seen scum take a lot to control thread narrative but I think its absurd here because what spam has happened in this game? Lots of substantive game posts is not spam.

[Thestatusquo]

Like we've played together 3 times now and my posting patterns are exactly the same in those games in that they are quite high but you sniped at me for it here whereas you've never even mentioned it before so along with the whole just complaining about no one "doing anything" when you're not doing anything yourself and there is nothing to DO seems like they're convenient hooks for you to latch on to in order to avoid doing or saying anything substantive while still remaining engaged in the thread.

pedit that was one instance like 40 pages ago.

[Thestatusquo]

Off the top of my head I can't really think of any strong stance you've taken this game whatsoever that wasn't directed at someone who was pushing you except for these OOG complaints about spam and no one "doing anything" both of which you've immediately backed off of when I pushed back on them.

[Thestatusquo]

so you have takes on 2 players in the game? Maybe 4 if we include the universe of people who are directly saying you're scum?

[Thestatusquo]

my problem is I think you're trying to fake the "townie who is annoyed at the game state" thing but you're not pulling it off because I would expect a townie to react by a stalled game state by trying to reevaluate and push things to find stuff out but you don't seem interested in finding things to help you sort so much as complain about stuff that is ostensibly keeping you from sorting but imo should actually be helping you sort because theres a whole bunch of stuff to sort here.

IMO this differentiates you a little bit from Alisae who is also doing the whole "I'm completely lost" thing but actually does seem to be trying to do a few things to maybe get unlost which I think is the most townie thing they've done this game.

[Thestatusquo]

mobile quote feature strikes again

[Thestatusquo]

I'm gunna push back on the claim that the game was ever borderline unreadable.

There's been lots of posts in this game yes but I think there has been next to no spam. The signal to noise ratio in this game is actually ridiculously high and I don't know why you would complain about that as town, but it sure does seem like a convenient thing to repeatedly mention as scum, which is weird because I've seen you play town a bunch in games that had plenty of posting in them and I don't think I've seen you have that particular complaint before.

i.e. it feels like the situation is the same that I've seen furtive in before but he's reacting differently which makes me think theres a motivational shift.

idk how much was actually spam because I didn't fkin read most of it but I definitely tried to use high activity as a platform as scum in a mbos game (think it was mbos 10)

I think this response is pretty orthogonal to my actual point.

[Thestatusquo]

okay? I'm saying I think you may be right, based on my own exp
@shea

I guess I misunderstood what you were saying then.

[Thestatusquo]

I think there's 4 scum in PP furtive shirou Alisae Norwee.

[Thestatusquo]

I vaguely town read to strongly town read almost everyone else.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not explicitly town reading titus or HC, those are the exceptions.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean, its literally just not the monty hall problem. The whole crux of the monty hall problem is that you now know for certain that your odds have changed...

[Thestatusquo]

vote furtive

[Thestatusquo]

I mean, I explained in great detail why I think you're scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I put people in random spots based off of subjective thoughts that disappeared as soon as I had them.

[Thestatusquo]

Feel pretty sketched out by the people boring furtive with me tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm leery about the wagon but I think I just want a flip regardless.

[Thestatusquo]

cakez, is this the post you're referring to from among us? If so I don't really see the comparison.

Subject: Among Us Mafia [GAME OVER]

First of all, normally I give zero fucks about proving I’m town; traditionally the only way to do that is to die so the priority should always go to finding scum. However while driving home from Boxing Day obligations I did think of one question for everybody voting for me: Why did I go to Comms on Night One?

Remember, Akarin posted a plan that listed everybody but Reck and I going to the rooms Cafeteria/Electric/Security/Admin/Comms. I stated that I would be going to a room that had people in it. It was clarified that “Comms” on the plan was supposed to be “Reactor”. I went to Comms anyway because that’s where my short task was. What is the motivation for Scumschel to go to Comms? Hope that Reck went there too? Hope that the people I locked out of Electrical will join me but only one of them even though I know that all of those people have stated they want to group up and are likely to join one of the other listed locations? Seriously, what’s my endgame there? As it turns out I did indeed end up with one other person, and neither of us killed each other. Which is more likely: 1) I stated I would be in a room with other people and then when the group plan swapped to Reactor I decided that it was important to go to Comms anyway instead of any of the other rooms I could have gone to that would have bolstered my statement, for no scum gain whatsoever, or 2) I had a task in Comms and went there to do it?

***

Anyway. Let’s find scum.

Here’s Bell.



We know Bell is scum.

I thought that Titus was suspicious on Day 1, but after we ended up in Comms together she became not an optimal elimination for Day 2. Nevertheless, Bell goes for her hard despite not indicating strong feelings about Titus the day before. Is this some sort of extreme bus? Doubtful, since 1) all it did was attract attention to Bell, and 2) it was 100% unnecessary for scum to bus there. Conclusion: Titus is town.



Who was on the wagon?



First thing we can see is that Flea was the second vote on the wagon that Bell was pushing, on a player I have concluded is town.

Here’s everything that Flea said about Bell, as well as Flea’s list of reads.



Nothing committal about Bell at all, and says he “was where he said he would be” as way of explanation why fae is not joining the Bellwagon and is instead joining the Tituswagon. We also see dismay that Bell was hammered, and a scumread on a player we know 100% is town.

I’m gonna come back to the Bellwagon chart in a bit, but faer play today is pretty bad as well.

As much as I'd love to clarify those posts, theyre over my 50 word limit and blatently breaching that is liable to be bad, especially as this is my long task I'll have a read over once I've slept (whoo 4am) and break them down for you.

Unless there is also a postcount restriction, which we haven’t been given any indication exists, there is literally nothing preventing Flea from clarifying the posts in question over time. Unless, of course, fae doesn’t want to.

I still have no idea why Hasc is voting me.
Consider this Intent then I guess? I should look at their ISO.

Bullshit. I dedicated an entire paragraph to Flea in the same post I made my vote. Here it is again:

I was asked to explain my scumreads. First of all, I mentioned Murdercat in my previous post; there are connections to known scum Bell that I don't like at all. I also think Flea is scummy for multiple reasons; faer reads have very little substance behind them, the late no-lim vote was bad, and if you parse the no-vowel thing Flea says "I'll have read and the Bell case is priority tomorrow but I'm not expecting to be convinced" which doesn't look great in light of Bell's flip. In fact, on Day 1 Flea said a lot of things about Murdercat that ended up in a shrug and no conclusions; I can absolutely see a Bell/Murdercat/Flea team.

Don’t pretend you have no idea about something that was spelled out and then say you’re announcing intent. Also, putting somebody at E-1 because their ISO leaves you “massively unimpressed” is not a good look, especially when it’s the holidays and that person hasn’t had a chance to get back to the game yet to post about a wagon that flared up for shaky reasons.

Can anybody else in this game look at Flea today and honestly say they are doing any scumhunting at all? Even a little bit? I can’t say that; Flea has spent the entire day talking about faer post restriction and talking about how claiming was a bad idea after all. The latter was obvious from the start of the game. Normally I’d say there’s no followup but Flea is not producing anything with which to follow up on in the first place! Flea, you think I’m scum? Fucking interrogate me. Don’t just speak vague “I don’t understand why HC is voting for me”s in my general direction.

Oh, I forgot about this but check out post #210. Specifically this part of #210:

There is no Storage room on the ship.

Okay this took a lot longer than I thought it would take and I’m not even done yet. Tomorrow afternoon I’ll go back to the diagram but focus it on Murdercat this time. For now, though, sleep.

MOD NOTE: FIXED QUOTE TAGS

[Thestatusquo]

I didnt get it at the time, but now having been involved with a bunch of survivor stuff on this site I'm pretty sure that style is a LSG thing.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess I can see similar vibes with how HC is approaching this game but I'm wary of putting too much stock in it because I haven't seen him play scum, and if anything that post showcases a significant difference in amount of effort into the game and the reads to me.

I'm not going to be like HC is scum because he hasn't reached that effort level yet this game but town binning based off of the comparison seems odd to me.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: shirou

[Thestatusquo]

Like the fact that no one is talking means its a town flip.

[Thestatusquo]

I assume, I've never heard the term before either.

[Thestatusquo]

Anyway this new challenge leaves me kind of apathetic
Ig I just do this and bounce like a ghost
VOTE: shirou

Honestly I’m conflicted about voting but like whatever happens happens ig

Was this not your scum read who you ostensibly refused money for yourself in order to deny them money? I'm so confused by what you think.

[Thestatusquo]

its good theatre, bront.

[Thestatusquo]

StD I want to explain why the hell you're voting me if town when Alisae posted stuff like "IF I FLIP WOLF" and first replying to me calling HC to be perhaps BUSSING

The fact of what I posted she picked that part especifically to reply is so scum indicative that it's not funny anymore to vote me here

inb4 "it's theater" or whatever perhaps. I believe I deserve at least 60% of the credits of a red flip on Alisae here. Maybe 70%.

p-edit: StD you

don't

find an issue with what Alisae recently posted?

ex-fucking-scuse you?

[Thestatusquo]

I skimmed the last 10 pages. I don't think I got anything at all meaningful out of it. Down to lim either of them still.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't know how you could possibly think shirou and alisae is tvt

[Thestatusquo]

I'm kinda losing my motivation this game so I need to recenter.

[Thestatusquo]

you also seem down on this lim pool. Why? Maybe I'm misremembering.

[Thestatusquo]

hi

[Thestatusquo]

do you steal all flags that team has or just theirs? Maintain additional flags makes it seem like they can be stolen but the rules don't specify a mechanism for doing that.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't like StD. I'm redoing my reads tonight. Alisae, can you do a readwall?

At the moment my reads are classified information. Only Shirou has them. Shirou can choose to out them or not but I'm not going to.

:rolls eyes:
VOTE: Alisae

[Thestatusquo]

ok scumbutt.

[Thestatusquo]

classic person not interested in mech trying to mech out the scum mech use that benefited them.

[Thestatusquo]

yeah enchant who lied

[Thestatusquo]

You could look at my back and forth with alisae about money from earlier will give you context of where I'm coming from here.

[Thestatusquo]

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A POPULARITY CONTEST

YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT BY READING THE ONE POST THAT'S IN FIRE'S ISO
IN FACT
I CAN JUST QUOTE IT

lol

[Thestatusquo]

I have no desire to coordinate in a game where scum can do something other than what we expect.

[Thestatusquo]

do you steal all flags that team has or just theirs? Maintain additional flags makes it seem like they can be stolen but the rules don't specify a mechanism for doing that.

One per round
Idk what determine which gets stolen if a team has multiple

Why are you answering a question you don't know the answer to.

[Thestatusquo]

The vast majority of Alisaes play this game can be summed up in one of the following categories:
1) LAMIST
2) Contradiction
3) Lack of any actual push to do anything whatsoever.

[Thestatusquo]

The vast majority of Alisaes play this game can be summed up in one of the following categories:
1) LAMIST
2) Contradiction
3) Lack of any actual push to do anything whatsoever.

ya and your play if you're a villager can be summed up to being bad at mafia

Surely you're better than personal attacks.

[Thestatusquo]

You can't actually refute anything I'm saying so instead you resort to ad homs. Meanwhile you're literally refusing to say what your reads are and going oh btw jsyk I'm doing all of this cuz I'm town. Look how town i am.

[Thestatusquo]

Went from trying to pocket me to now insulting me and I'm just waiting for the next step which will be shit pushing me.

[Thestatusquo]

Stop with the AtE. I'm saying you're a faction on the game on the internet, if you can't take that don't play the fucking game.

[Thestatusquo]

Alisae is scum either way.

[Thestatusquo]

why is alisae scum

If you don't know why I think Alisae is scum then I suggest you have not been reading the game even a little bit.

[Thestatusquo]

why is alisae scum

If you don't know why I think Alisae is scum then I suggest you have not been reading the game even a little bit.

What's exactly your read on me/Alisae 1v1 though?

You hinted at thinking it was "scum theater" before, however that was before I posted my thoughts on her and all. Is that still your opinion? We're just both scum and that's it? I don't feel a lot of curiosity from you on engaging the whole thing

I don't think its ever tvt, and I'm not curious because both of you feel fake as hell.

[Thestatusquo]

Like what am I supposed to feel curiosity about, exactly? Neither of you have displayed anything even remotely close to what I'd call a town thought process so I'm not really interested in digging into the weeds of this specific slap fight.

[Thestatusquo]

But I am noticing that the shade is coming towards me from you now that you've been unsuccessful in diffusing my scum read by trying to pocket me.

So that's cool.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really care what you think tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

You think my entire case isn't a "town thought process"? not even a bit?

What.

correct.

[Thestatusquo]

It may not look like that but I'm paying quite a bit of attention to everyone in this game and I think that case highlighting different points across the game shows a bit of that.

I don't see how you think nothing I posted there looks like a "town thought process" and looks "fake as hell".

p-edit: lol

you're

the one shading me/Alisae/Norwe since quite a lot ago (which I do believe to be all town atm) and if I push back on what I believe to genuinely be "fake as hell" posting as saying I didn't posting anything close to "town thought process" there your immediate response is to throw MORE shade

This aint shade, I think you're scum. Possibly all three of you tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

would twice be enough?

or it gotta be all three of us killed no matter what?

Ideally none of you endgame, yes.

[Thestatusquo]

And this is a really weird question from you, Shirou. Not only do you know that not being right on something doesn't mean your other thoughts are wrong, it's kind of the foundation of how I've seen you play town full stop, so it doesn't strike me as a genuine argument coming from you.

You mean to tell me if you were wrong about one person you'd disregard all your other scum reads? The main thing that furtive flip made me do was reevaluate my pooky read and his not being around much hasn't done much help that either.

[Thestatusquo]

I literally reconsidered calling Ydrasse scum in the Dance Game after MariaR flipped town due to guilty

I TRY to not reconsider reads needlessly but even I do reconsider reads when I get something like 2/3 of them wrong

Just because I still believe my reads doesn't mean I didn't reconsider them. I have seen nothing since the flip that makes me think I'm wrong about either of you and I don't think either of you look squeaky clean in that wagon either.

[Thestatusquo]

and what is that read exactly

The fail case of my world view is that pooky is scum and that has become more likely with the furtive flip and the silence that has fallen from him since.

I in particular didn't like how he kept shouting about how it would make no sense for him to push someone not up for elimination when he was fighting with shirou because in my opinion theres a lot of scum motivation to do that and the refusal to acknowledge it didn't feel like it was coming from someone interested in working with me to find scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Reconsidering in my mind means thinking more about it. I often think back about things and don't change my mind.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not doing a team solve. In fact, the words "the fail case in my world view" explicitly implies the opposite.

[Thestatusquo]

This is deliberate bad faith.

[Thestatusquo]

I dont understand what you mean by that at all.

[Thestatusquo]

Can you explain?

[Thestatusquo]

I do not believe that any reasonable human being could read the sentence "the fail case in my world view is pooky being scum" and think "aha! Shea is saying that pooky is scum in addition to everything he thinks! AND all things a person thinks must mesh together exactly to a coordinated and unified world view"

Reading my statement that way is either incredibly stupid or in bad faith.

[Thestatusquo]

I read your statement as incredulity.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm positioning myself to vote out the scum and don't really care how that looks to anyone.

[Thestatusquo]

You're not really on my radar tbh.
I feel like during this day phase you've been kind of just doing your own thing.

yeah cuz he's not pushing you.

Anyway, VOTE: Shirou

[Thestatusquo]

Haschel is non-communicado in our PT unfortunately.

I feel like he's done some surface level townie stuff but I need him to like...be more present. I understand that he's not a hyperposter and activity isn't really his thing but theres a difference between posting 1 or 2 times a day and not really posting and not really attempting to accomplish anything while he's here.

He asked me a really weird question post furtives death about summarizing the case on furtive but there's been no follow up on that at all once I answered, and I'm confused by his vanity vote on enchant who I assured him was imo still within his town meta and very unlikely to ever get real pressure at that juncture of the game.

[Thestatusquo]

same for psyche honestly
I am really not happy about 1 post that literally can come from any alignment. I don't know if him referring to my reads of a poe of 8/14 wrongly (we forget titus and include people in the likely to be villager category, how are we this wrong?). It's like 5/14 at best. I also don't get the complaint as this is just how I approach the game and form reads and I would like to think that this is what I've been doing throughout the whole game?

If there was a word I could use to describe his posts, it would be useless.

I agree with all of this and the previous titus analysis.

[Thestatusquo]

Psyche is really leaning into the whole I'm kind of a kooky person shtick which is kind of how I have seen them behave when replacing in as town as well though, I think its kind of a nervous tick for deflecting the need to do real analysis and I'm not sure its alignment indicative.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't actually mind the kookiness if that's even a word. I don't think I'll get psyche's alignment from that.

I'm really looking for anything of substance. Something to make the slot, actually like, readable? So far what's being posted ain't it.

Like his 1 post today was him basically whining about my play.
I think his 1 main post yesterday was about enchant, a topic which no one is interested in?

Useless, like a Naruto filler episode.

I guess what I'm trying to communicate is it reminds me of the play when they replaced into cats v dogs where they were town.

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=3&t=86525&user_select%5B%5D=15830

It's the same energy imo.

[Thestatusquo]

Don't get me wrong psyche could still be scum but I feel like at the very least they're not out of their replace into a very large game as town meta in my eyes.

[Thestatusquo]

Eventually, yes.

[Thestatusquo]

Stealing from alisae/shirou is good, actually.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm a lot of trouble with motivation here tbh. I don't feel a lot of agency in this game and its fucking with me.

Can someone give me a summary of the last like oh I don't know 5 pages.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm a lot of trouble with motivation here tbh. I don't feel a lot of agency in this game and its fucking with me.

Can someone give me a summary of the last like oh I don't know 5 pages.

I remember everything that happened more or less but the more people mention wanting a summary the more I notice I don't know

*when*

certain things happened exactly

It's like, blurred because of how slow the game feels to be moving

Yeah I'm trying not to bitch too much because I knew what this was when I signed up for it but this game is really hard for me to stay engaged with, not with the speed necessarily, but with the mechanics.

[Thestatusquo]

I had suspected Ari all game LMAO.

[Thestatusquo]

I had suspected Ari all game LMAO.

EXACTLY AND YOU WEREN'T VOTING THERE AND INSISTING ON A PUSH

It felt like you vs Ramcius all over again trying to distract from FL

Why can't I be suspicious of two people

[Thestatusquo]

can we like kill someone actually

this game is starting to bore me it doesn't have enough death

fire I told you that you should have listed dayvigs to buy in the shop, even scum is being boring here by not killing someone

this game just needs more death

You could vote yourself

[Thestatusquo]

Strongly prefer to vote titus over psyche if I have to, just tonally I think.

[Thestatusquo]

I’d rather vote Shirou for taking Enchant out of the pool

So do it? I'm currently voting shirou but no one seems interested.

[Thestatusquo]

Not going to unless it becomes much more clear to me that shirou isn't happening.

[Thestatusquo]

im never voting shirou in this situation

luckily you are but one master splinter.

[Thestatusquo]

Like fritzler or internet stranger without the overtly creepy vibes.

[Thestatusquo]

You could try telling me why you think shirou is town

[Thestatusquo]

it doesn't have to be this way

[Thestatusquo]

I still just dont think this is scum gamma so thats an issue I have with your worldview.

[Thestatusquo]

I think a much more pronounced attempted at a narrative shift happened with my slot and shirou and alisae and everyone just kind of ignored how they went from attacking each other to suddenly alisae would only trust eir one true read list in the pt with shirou.

[Thestatusquo]

I do think it would be fun to push shirou if I were scum here because I remember him saying he's only ever been miselimmed once or something like that and as a scum player I would take that personally.

[Thestatusquo]

In my skim I missed why gamma is upset at enchant so if someone could explain that to me that would be grand.

Also, I've seen scum gamma rage before and it usually reads as pretty genuine. I.e. I don't think gamma generally needs to fake her emotions as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I think gamma is sometimes pretty bad at faking direction and purpose as scum so the idea that they're subtly trying to push something from your view reads more like town gamma than scum gamma to me even if you don't agree with the push.

[Thestatusquo]

I think you might be right on titus. I don't think I'm wrong on shirou either though.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I'm definitely willing to slide over to hammer titus if we need me to eventually.

[Thestatusquo]

Hey gamma could you explain your various rages to me

[Thestatusquo]

And also if you could drop some kind of overall read list that would be dope.

[Thestatusquo]

Famous "I'm looking to rush" word "eventually."

[Thestatusquo]

here's a question

why did enchant choose pooky and gamma

perhaps a better question is

why was the flag available to be taken in the first place

Is the suggestion that only scum would steal? I don't think that's accurate.

[Thestatusquo]

here's a question

why did enchant choose pooky and gamma

perhaps a better question is

why was the flag available to be taken in the first place

BECAUSE I WAS TOO SICK TO SUBMIT AN ACTION YOU ABSOLUTE CHODE!!!

Hey, gamma, come on calm down. If you feel the need to post something this insulting maybe take a break from the thread instead.

[Thestatusquo]

I do not believe that is true, I believe the rules are just that they must not disagree.

[Thestatusquo]

I do not think theres an issue with anything fen has posted so my suggestion to you here is that your perspective might be skewed as to what a proportional response is.

[Thestatusquo]

Why is that a scum claim from enchant?

[Thestatusquo]

If anything I think its the opposite. Why would scum enchant block you and then steal from you when you would know full well you were blocked?

Like you can say wifom here but enchant isn't making that argument I am making that argument. I just don't think that's a plausible scum line.

[Thestatusquo]

I have submitted steal actions this mini game. You're hoping they're stealing too. I'm not going to like guess at enchants specific motivations until they spell them out themselves but I can think of plenty of town and scum motivations to play the game this way and they all seem plausible to me.

I don't really think that you getting stolen from implies knowledge of the block.

[Thestatusquo]

Maybe, but also given my reality where HC has not said a damn thing in our PT in like a week, and given that FB has noted my actions I am assuming it's not the case pretty strongly.

One thing that might have happened is that FB didn't give me any sort of acknowledgement of any earlier action which wasn't bolded. He's since made a post in the thread specifying that he doesn't take actions unless they're bolded.

So maybe you didn't bold it and he just didn't count it.

Either way seems worthwhile to confirm what happened.

[Thestatusquo]

It's kind of shitty modding to not take an action if its not bolded, make no acknowledgement of that fact at the time and not put it in your rules and then make the consequences be no action so I really hope that's not what happened here.

[Thestatusquo]

I am just saying I would be legitimately upset if people were punished for not following a posting format that is not listed in the rules at all.

[Thestatusquo]

hey enchant you do you steal from gamma and pooky

[Thestatusquo]

I meant to say why

[Thestatusquo]

Gamma do you think its possible enchant just didnt realize you were sick, and also it doesn't matter since you should have a teammate submitting an action anyway? I didnt realize you're sick because I just glaze over sigs anyway.

[Thestatusquo]

I wanted to steal from Shea since I thought if they’re wolf they stole tonight but Shirou guarded which conflicted with my action

That's cool i stole from you so we bounced either way.

[Thestatusquo]

What's funny is that all of Shirou's previous accounts are on display in main page right now because they all are given the same birthday.

Shirou is spyrex?????

[Thestatusquo]

FIRE LET ME POST WITH THIS ACC AGAIN

FWAJIFIAJFIAJIWFJAWIFJAIJFWAJIF

My biggest problem with you doing this is it makes ISO work really fucking annoying.

[Thestatusquo]

Is...is that a thing?

[Thestatusquo]

WOW!

I'll check that when I'm back on desktop. You'd better not be lying to me bear, or I'll give you bad clues next time we play codenames.

[Thestatusquo]

I can assure you I would not be mechanically on top of anything as any alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not even mechanically on top of my real life

[Thestatusquo]

I can assure you I would not be mechanically on top of anything as any alignment.

That is you. You and Shirou I imagine are different people.
If I'm playing wolf it's really easy for me to be the person with the best understand of the mechanics in the game. Usually in theme game's they're thrusted upon you, and I like to look for edges wherever I can find them. So generally I think it's more likely for a wolf to understand how a game mechanically works than say a villager but that doesn't mean it's impossible for a villager to show that they know how the game mechanically works. Idunno if that makes sense.

it sure doesn't make sense with any of your previous positions about mech in this game but whatever.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes I am going to hold the fact that your statements matched neither my expectations nor your actions against you until the end of the Mafia game especially when i think those statements were a delivery attempt to look more town.

Sorry not sorry.

[Thestatusquo]

You've even just confirmed that attempting to look less on top of mech is something that benefits you as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Explain in full your thoughts about celery in chili.

Do you think you will play survivor meet or will it be ceph?

[Thestatusquo]

All of this is filler btw shirou. I think you have more filler than actual opinions and that's part of my issue with your slot.

I understand you say this is because you've been shaken to your core by your previous experiences and you lack conviction but i still just see you doing a lot of theory crafting on how you like to read people and not a lot of actual reading people.

[Thestatusquo]

Could be wrong on exactly what things you're doing instead of reading people but i meant that more generally than specifically. You're doing a lot of stuff that i would describe as busy work. I'm not going to go back and sanity check myself on the "how you read people" stuff right now but i can later if you'd like.

[Thestatusquo]

Celery in chili is like a time bomb no a land mine you go in and take a bite and get an unexpected crunch and it shatters your soil

Ceph is gonna play I'm gonna do whatever mist wants me to

Scum claim tbh. The first thing, the second thing is cool.

[Thestatusquo]

list mod btw

[Thestatusquo]

I've never seen them in the same place at the same time.

[Thestatusquo]

Listen list mods can't be expected to know whether the people in their games are doing the dirty shellyc or not.

[Thestatusquo]

People who I could easily case as scum but yknow whatever:
NorwegianboyEE
Alisae

:thonking:

you think i'm pocketed by them then? they are together with enchant my top TRs

This is the other big part of my scum read of you. The insistence that these two slots are town when i see very little reason for that whatsoever. So like from my pov you seem incredibly scum siding. It's possible you're incredibly pocketed and i don't know how susceptible you are to that in general but i feel like you've been on the wrong side of almost every argument in particular with those two slots and your brief foray into attaching alisae followed by the immediate reconciliation felt so fucking fake given both of your thread positioning this whole game.

[Thestatusquo]

I think both tbones and psyche's reaction to you and those two slots are reasonable interpretations of the interplay between those two slots and your slot.

I'm personally not sure myself which of you and alisae are scum but I'd be shocked if you were both town.

Psych reads incredibly genuine to me still for what it's worth.

[Thestatusquo]

People who I could easily case as scum but yknow whatever:
NorwegianboyEE
Alisae

:thonking:

you think i'm pocketed by them then? they are together with enchant my top TRs

This is the other big part of my scum read of you. The insistence that these two slots are town when i see very little reason for that whatsoever. So like from my pov you seem incredibly scum siding. It's possible you're incredibly pocketed and i don't know how susceptible you are to that in general but i feel like you've been on the wrong side of almost every argument in particular with those two slots and your brief foray into attaching alisae followed by the immediate reconciliation felt so fucking fake given both of your thread positioning this whole game.

Just because you don’t understand a read doesn’t mean it’s scum.

This is a useless argument. My job is to figure people out from my pov. If you disagree with that it's fine but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the jobs of town players is to find stuff that doesn't make sense to them and poke at it.

[Thestatusquo]

People who I could easily case as scum but yknow whatever:
NorwegianboyEE
Alisae

:thonking:

you think i'm pocketed by them then? they are together with enchant my top TRs

This is the other big part of my scum read of you. The insistence that these two slots are town when i see very little reason for that whatsoever. So like from my pov you seem incredibly scum siding. It's possible you're incredibly pocketed and i don't know how susceptible you are to that in general but i feel like you've been on the wrong side of almost every argument in particular with those two slots and your brief foray into attaching alisae followed by the immediate reconciliation felt so fucking fake given both of your thread positioning this whole game.

Just because you don’t understand a read doesn’t mean it’s scum.

This is a useless argument. My job is to figure people out from my pov. If you disagree with that it's fine but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the jobs of town players is to find stuff that doesn't make sense to them and poke at it.

Like what are you trying to accomplish here exactly? If it was to point me in the right direction you'd think you'd have some reasoning of what I'm missing or what I'm not understanding but instead it's just this petulance, almost.

You've already said you think I'm town so I'd expect that's the path town you would take. But instead you took the complain path that is unlikely to get me to reconsider.

[Thestatusquo]

This is the other big part of my scum read of you. The insistence that these two slots are town when i see very little reason for that whatsoever.

what's the difference between my read on norwee here and in dance game? everyone was suspecting him and i correctly called him town there

open flag just ended and a lot of people also thought my read on norwee was bullshit, i think StD even called it "more uninteresting than a random number generator"

no one gets how exactly i read norwee in the details because as i explained in the recently finished white flag game, i try to not talk on details some of how i read him in the first place. i'm not gonna personally tell him how to fool me next time although little by little i've been sharing some details that he could use against me in the future

i think his meanness in norwee vs pooky is still his town game, and i believe what alisae posted in our PT still significantly comes from town more often than not as well, she was really annoyed on being suspected and being slightly mean in-thread due to it

I didn't really scum read norwee that game, which means theres at the very least a substantive difference there in my mind. I just checked and I did end up voting there as a sheep on GL but I was mostly interested in flipping ari.

The vibes I got from norwee in that game were very different than the vibes I get here.

I also just simply do not believe in "trust me I just get this player" vibes very much. Whenever I say stuff like that its because I have a checklist of concrete things I'm looking for when they're town or scum that they're hitting which I do not feel like sharing with them publicly because I do not want to stop being able to immediately read them, and if you're doing something like that feel free to correct me, but norwee and you both have some "trust me the vibes are *chefs kiss*" bullshit going on here and I don't really believe thats a real thing and never have.

[Thestatusquo]

i'll be honest that i don't believe much in the psyche wagon at this point because it was a bit of a random read from me for the fact PP contributed the least in the entire game before replacing out, but alisae/me have been sharing some interesting stuff in the PT as well and i think maybe it's worth sheeping her

VOTE: psyche

my heart doesn't necessarily scream this is scum at all but /shrug

it's the best i can do atm

open wolfing "oh poor is me I guess I just have to get on this wagon but its probably town"

[Thestatusquo]

and if you're doing something like that feel free to correct me

corrected you stand then, this is just from my most recently finished town game white flag:

Also, Shurro you can stick your poe list up your ass afaic. Just a another reminder I want norwee town explanation. Please explain like im 5. Please point specific posts I should be townreading with some rationale. Anime gifs not allowed.

If all the reason you have to town read norwee is the reaction to your stun then I dont really think the way they reacted is in any way hard to fake as scum. So you are either confbiased or tmid, or you and norwee are partners. Which is my favorite theory.

You still need to explain why you were hard town reading them BEFORE the stunt, since as you have explained it was always part of the plan.

What gave you the confidence to pull that. I asked this before and you responded with something equivalent to “trust me bro”.

Like I don’t get the mindset.
Maybe you just have an inflated ego and are confbiased I just don’t see how it works other wise.

I want to reply on this before going into Gimli/Furtive.

I probably am kinda "confbiased" by this point because I've a good history of knowing more or less how to read Norwee. Could I get it wrong eventually? Can I be wrong right now? YES
. But mafia is a guessing game and right now all that I know about him points to him being town in this game.

It's true I'm trying to "hide" a bit some of the reasons and not going for ultra breakdown of every little thing I think is from his town meta/playstyle, I don't want to reveal everything about how I read him because then he could fake it all next time, I don't want that because it's pleasant to feel like you've a friend that you can read, it makes the game more fun when I feel at ease trusting him because I trust my methods on reading him so far.

I'll admit, in fact, that although I'm advocating quite a bit for town!Norwee here, he hasn't
been very
townie outside of his reaction to my push, but I still think the way he reacted to the push isn't from scum!him and there's some good posts like I pointed out there and here in his ISO. You can disagree, that's fine Toto, maybe I'm wrong
, but I've no choice but to trust my guns because they've kinda worked so far with him. I'm pushing it confidently because I believe preventing a miselimination on him is very positive for our odds of winning this game and that's it.

I've not been too wrong on him so far (there's a game I suspected him but never confident enough to lim him because there was always "scummier" slots in my vision), but this could be it. My next game could be it. I don't feel like I've properly "failed" on him yet by completely inversely reading his alignment but I could. I'm not infallible.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong? I don't think I'm, but I could be.

One of the best town players in this site that destroyed scum teams in D1 has his left post in the site as a pun that in the very end, he thinks there's quite a bit of luck
involved in mafia. I agree there's definitely games that even people that know me probably would suspect me because I was playing a bit differently for whatever reason. Mafia is hard, we can only often guess.

I'm guessing Norwee is town here. I've historically good guesses on him I believe. I could still be wrong though I guess.

That's it Toto.

It's hard to be sure of anything in this game but I try to push to the best of my abilities what I think is the correct answer.

You have money, yes? Send me a message outlining the things you look for that you are using to read him this game and maybe we can find some understanding here.

[Thestatusquo]

Doesn't have to be all of it, but I want SOMETHING substantive that you can point to in this game and other games.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't care if you think I'm town or not. You're not getting me eliminated either way.

[Thestatusquo]

I think psyche is town.

I could vote titus but this engagement from her feels pretty town to me too.

I think shirou is scum and I think alisae is scum, I'm not sure which has a higher probability though.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't care if you think I'm town or not. You're not getting me eliminated either way.

And this is why NorwegianboyEE has done jackshit ftr.

Can you explain further?

[Thestatusquo]

One of the biggest incongruities of shirou's slot is his claim that he is just lacking in confidence in mafia because he's been wrong a bunch recently and then continuing to say he thinks my slot is scum which is ostensibly the exact thing he was most recently completely and utterly wrong about, especially considering he said he didnt think my slot was readable without flips and we've had exactly one flip this game.

His words don't match his actions but they have to not match if he's scum because he knows he needs to eventually lim me this game if he's going to win.

[Thestatusquo]

I tried to reach out just now and your response is "you're scum and I don't want to waste the money" and that's cool and all but I don't feel a particular need to try to demonstrate my towniness in ways I'm not doing already to someone who doesn't appear to be trying to sort my slot in good faith and has shown a great inability to read me anyway.

I understand that reading motivations is tough especially in the world where I'm wrong about you because you will always see my actions as someone trying to eliminate you, someone you know is town, but there's really not much I can do about that.

If you want to not waste money you could start on town casing alisae for me since you're apparently so sure es town that you're willing to sheep a place your "heart doesn't think is scum."

[Thestatusquo]

NorwegianboyEE content early largely seems focused on saving Shiro come to think of it too. His "fake" TR shifting into a real one as needed.

I might just have to reasses Shirou given NorwegianboyEE associatives. Bad to do a preflip but if I'm deciding between bad options well..

See, one of the ways to most strongly town ping me is to post a thought I have in my head that I haven't actually shared yet publicly and titus just did exactly that.

[Thestatusquo]

i mean it feels like titus is just attacking people who attack her

I think thats a pretty uncharitable reading of whats been happening here, especially given the analysis of the last post.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea you think both e and Shirou are scum?

I think all worlds of shirou-alisae are possible except town-town.

I think norwee is likely scum regardless of how those slots resolve.

[Thestatusquo]

:/

[Thestatusquo]

i don't think it's uncharitable at all but if titus isn't an option i'd rather kill psyche

Why are you so against voting shirou?

[Thestatusquo]

You're acting like you're very strongly town reading him but if I remember correctly you've said multiple times that's not the case.

[Thestatusquo]

That sounds a lot like crap tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

Well Titus one of them has 4 votes and the other has 0.

[Thestatusquo]

Freudian slip?

I think the observation that most of your energy in this game has been dedicated to defending shirou even to the point of faking a read on him which slid comfortably into a real town read with very little justification is a very valid point.

[Thestatusquo]

The freudian slip was a joke lmao. I don't believe in those either.

You did say "because I'm scum though" which is pretty funny.

[Thestatusquo]

i mean it feels like titus is just attacking people who attack her

I think thats a pretty uncharitable reading of whats been happening here, especially given the analysis of the last post.

Titus is just trying to characterize all of my play as scummy because i'm scum. Like how is that worth the post it is written on.

Handwaive. No substance. Omgus.

Yeah that's some great content right there.
Truly Titus is town for this amazing and brave take.

The take that there's no substance to your post here is accurate. What specifically are the posts where titus is characterizing your play as "scummy because you're scum."

I just pointed out that the example that came directly before this doesn't strike me as that at all.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the claim is you haven't really been pushing for who you think is scum in this game.

Like your votes don't speak to a player trying to push a town agenda. Do you disagree with that? What aggressive stances do you think you've taken this game? What town agenda do you think you've tried to push?

[Thestatusquo]

Shea, you missed my request for a substantive reason to SR Shiro.

I didn't miss it, it would just take more effort for me to do right now than I am willing to put in while I'm just vibing in the thread waiting for my laundry to be done so I can head out.

I'd suggest you read the most recent posts in my iso and just ctrl f shirou because I go into depth about the read quite a bit and also probably iso him too for his response to me. That will probably give you a pretty good understanding of how I feel.

[Thestatusquo]

Norwee how do you feel about Shirou's Alisae read then, given that your read appears to be entirely based on meta and shirou doesn't have any meta experience with Alisae at all.

Do you think you would town read eir this game if you didn't have meta experience?

[Thestatusquo]

I specifically spelled out what point I thought was good.

[Thestatusquo]

when i apologize it's usually more for me. like a condom between personal standards from who i really am. or i guess a plan b pill.

This was not something I wanted to read with my own two eyes

gamma can I get some actual substance

[Thestatusquo]

I have skimmed the nonsense that happened while I was out.

Titus flip was bad. I want to vote shirou still because of my ego but I something about Alisae's quick challenge and the way they voted despite apparently having a strong town read there combined with all the other stuff gives me pause that shirou is town who is being used by alisae.

[Thestatusquo]

Flipping psyche is bad and we should stop letting alisae get away with completely scum siding in almost every action.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Alisae

Will someone in this thread fucking listen to me for once.

[Thestatusquo]

why would she feel bad about being a bit mean to you if she was a wolf and you were right on her

i guess it could be feeling she's caught for the wrong reasons or so but it didn't feel like that

Scum use real emotions all the time.

[Thestatusquo]

Or we could not flip psyche and flip one of the actual wolves instead of just letting the scum direct the whole fucking game.

[Thestatusquo]

This might be the most frustrating game I've ever played in my entire fucking career tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

I have no fucking idea how Psyche is a villager and I have no idea how there are people defending it. It's actually just crazy to me.

i didnt think furtive or titus could be town either roflmao

I HAVE TOWNREAD BOTH OF THOSE PLAYERS AT SOME POINT DURING THIS GAME
I HAMMERED TITUS KNOWING SHE WOULD FLIP TOWN THINKING MAYBE NORWEE WILL GET HIS FUCKING HEAD IN THE GAME OR MAYBE TO PROVE MYSELF WRONG MAN

and yet you still managed to vote both of them. What good are your town reads if you don't use them to fight to keep town alive?

You can claim to town read people all you want but at the end of the day your actions are what matters, its very easy for scum to have correct town reads.

[Thestatusquo]

also this is now a dated comparison but is "openwolfing" the "fake news" of mafiascum right now?

No that's "scum siding"

People just say it when you say they're scum.

[Thestatusquo]

still happy to throw either of alisae slot or shirou out the door, less sure on alisae now because I think if they were scum replace out seems kind of weird because they're probably in an excellent position so maybe just shirou

still thinking psyche is town.

[Thestatusquo]

Honestly I think I would be pretty upset with Alisae repping out here as scum because it almost seems like a strategic replace out in that case so maybe I will just live in the world where its town frustrated with the game state.

[Thestatusquo]

gamma can you explain your alisae vote here?

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: shirou

[Thestatusquo]

I am legitimately starting to get more and more sus of gamma. I think it's been a very long time since she did something to substantively effect the outcome of the game.

[Thestatusquo]

no one is listening to me at all and town is going to lose this game because of it.

[Thestatusquo]

no one is listening to me at all and town is going to lose this game because of it.

yes shea, the problem is that we didn't listen to you on alisae before so when people began to vote her she got so anxious and replaced out

if it wasn't for the replace out if you're town and she is as well as i think you would prob have mislimmed her and we would be getting into ELO right now, as we're again with your push on me

definitely what we need is to listen to you when it seems you were wrong on ali as well

this aint good faith.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm off it until we lim shirou.

[Thestatusquo]

well given that the deadsheep would probably be me, no.

but if its not me sure.

[Thestatusquo]

bruh shirou has never scumread you the entire game

uhhh no?

[Thestatusquo]

I too think psyche is town.

[Thestatusquo]

And the fact that there is this much sustained pressure for limming him is absurd.

[Thestatusquo]

At this point I don't know what anti Spew means and I'm too afraid to ask.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean I think psyche is town. Part of that has been colored by thinking theres no way psyche and shirou are both scum and thinking shirou is lock scum.

But part of it is just the tone and posts don't seem agenda driven to me.

[Thestatusquo]

i just don't know if i buy "it burns my cookies that someone would deign to ask about my reads!" coming from town when he's already given like half of the prompt i'm asking him for

Why would it come from scum?

[Thestatusquo]

And why does this logic not apply equally to someone like alisae who has literally refused to say reads anywhere but eir PT?

[Thestatusquo]

I mean no one gives a shit what I think this game so I'm kinda just done with it.

[Thestatusquo]

When we flip psyche as town and then flip sheep or whichever other LHF the scum team wants and lose I will be very insufferable in the postgame.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not interested in flipping psyche. His tone reads town to me and all the arguments against him suck donkey ass and everyone is acting like its some defacto elimination.

[Thestatusquo]

he sounds exactly like he did in other town games I have seen him in. And is acting exactly the same way.

[Thestatusquo]

I even linked one.

No one gave a shit.

[Thestatusquo]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=3&t=86525&user_select%5B%5D=15830