JOAT uPick | FIN!

[Bell]

To be clear, my question is why did you make a statement saying you dislike revealing your cards and then claiming your cards out of nowhere(?)

Don't question it for now, it selfresolves

Sure thing.

[Bell]

Good news everyone, I’m a tree stump forever when I die.

[Bell]

I’m sure you’re all thrilled.

[Bell]

I can’t tell if Dunn was serious with their early push on Ircher. I’m not complaining, but I can never read that guy.

I was serious, I think Ircher was being weird.

My experience with Ircher is that they’re always weird. They were remarkably atonal at the beginning of the game though. The voice sounded the exact same throughout it was guileless, which isn’t Ircher. Who is full of guile.

I dunno what to make of it. Which is why there they sit. In my neutral pile.

[Bell]

If I was protected I wouldn’t die and I wouldn’t be able to choose to activate it and would just continue the game day.

If I’m killed and role blocked.
I dunno. Are you asking for a friend?
I refuse to wink.

[Bell]

or say if you use your witness protection and scum tries to kill you (cause they're super dumb).
what happens then?

Nothing. Because I can’t be affected, they could shoot me over the second night though.

[Bell]

You should consult with TL before giving away that sort of information. They’re good at the role stuff. Let them benefit you by relying on their strengths.

What’s that? You didn’t ask for advice?
Well, I never.

[Bell]

I’m asking. Are you sure you want me to answer that though? Well, I guess the scum team could just ask since they know all the parameters of my role and FF would tell them the truth, so it doesn’t really matter. It’s spilt milk.

[Bell]

*crosses finger*
Role blocking works. I will not tree stump if role blocked and then killed.

[Bell]

@
Maid Cafe (hydra of MariaR and Beeboy)
Doctor Drew
Sakura Hana
light_ganski


I want to know what you think of Bell's play so fa in this game and where you lean on his alignment

Reposting. I wanna know too.

If Pooky is wondering I’m just being patient while working through other people. but I don’t really think I’m going to be town reading Pooky this game. Without a mechanical clear. Pooky had off ramps but they never took them and I could have easily died, I don’t think they were genuinely trying to sort me. They’re laying the ground work for to take either position since they’re being careful to use more neutral wording in their recent posts but it take it as a second round of creating space to maneuver or act opportunistically.

Well, I’m not really curious on Maid or rather I think what they’ve already said about me in particular is fine and I’d rather hear about wherever their heart takes them on their scum hunting journey.

Ganksi’s catch up takes aren’t really my thing. Rather I really disagree with their reasons/logic for AI stuff. So instead I’m mostly looking at their positioning and it’s typical and like everyone else. I’m out of gas today so I don’t really want to engage with them while already looking at Laplace and waiting on a reply there.

I am watching/lurking. I’m just going to be in the background for this Dunn thing. I can’t be stirring all the pots. I reserve the right to intervene and change my mind.

In regards to tree stump being personally not fun for Drew, we’re all different. I think how rough this day phase has been for me explains neatly explains why it specifically appeals to me.

Also, I lied and crossed my fingers and my tree stump appears to be pretty much unblockable. I can decline to come back as a tree stump. But obviously, I’ll never do that.

[Bell]

Cool.

[Bell]

I’m not entirely sure what I would even talk to them about. They’re probably scum this game and they tend to just triple down when it comes to engaging with me.
They don’t really do resets as scum.

[Bell]

It’s not in my nature. My only thought was that I would fake being scum in the PT and say they’re doomed and all their friends and family would be gone when they were released. But my read of them died 10 pages back.

[Bell]

It was scum.

[Bell]

I know you’re not interested in my takes Titus, but it find it pretty unlikely Lemon is scum.

They Rand released their role, seem pretty engaged in the game, have relatively novel takes and seem to be trying to be town clever and not scum clever. I can’t correct for their idiosyncrasies since it’s first game with them, but for me their angles and trajectories are all wrong for scum.

[Bell]

They are also proactive and don’t shy away from engagement. At the least they’re a terrible day one elim.

[Bell]

VOTE: Dunnstral

Comrade Firebringer, while our interactions in the past have sadly been few, I now feel compelled to ask why have you aimed your lens of suspicion at Comrade Dunnstral? Perusing the minutes of our past union meetings, the only time I can find you mentioning them was in missive #285. I had assumed this was in jest rather than a serious accusation of Dunn being a perfidious capitalist. Is there any further evidence for these aspersions so I may draw my own conclusions from your logic?

I’m sorry for interrupting but could you get back to me on my response to within the next *…18 hours?* yeah, I’m okay with you responding in the next 18 hours instead of immediately as long as you’re doing something.

[Bell]

I know you’re not interested in my takes Titus, but it find it pretty unlikely Lemon is scum.

They Rand released their role, seem pretty engaged in the game, have relatively novel takes and seem to be trying to be town clever and not scum clever. I can’t correct for their idiosyncrasies since it’s first game with them, but for me their angles and trajectories are all wrong for scum.

You are so transparent Bell lol, Fire please explain how Bell is town.....in detail.

#TeamPooky

I’m proud of you.

[Bell]

Rand released?

@Fire, Ok. Thoughts on my other reads?

They claimed all their roles and then said it was tactical when I asked them about it and told me not to pursue it and they’ll explain later. It doesn’t really make sense for them to do all this ground work when just being a blank slate is easier.

[Bell]

Pooky, Laplace, Drew, Sakura, Dunn.

~ Ircher. Monkey, Titus.

Huh. I really do need to work harder.

@FB, yeah I almost goofed and added my name to a smaller list. Smh.

[Bell]

I think Rh is town. It’s vibes tho.
I was surprised when I was rereading and noticed HSP turtle didn’t really post for the first ten pages or so. I am too lazy to check if this is true. So that’s been weird for me.

[Bell]

Drew, while I am all for being pocketed and humiliated by a scum FB this game.
They’re very in…
Oh. Look at you you’re doing the thing.
I wish you didn’t spend the last 40 pages trying to say as little as possible tho.
What am I supposed to do with that.
Just chalk it up to life circumstances?
Why does everyone like you and want you to live but I associate town you with, what you’re doing now which no one would like but obviously if you always nice as scum people would be more suspicious of you earlier. you know what. I think it’s just because I don’t know you and I need more time to work through it.

Nah, your reads are being too reactive Bell, 40 pages of careful neutrality doesn’t go away. They hit their switch here. This is intentional.

But sigh Bell, intentionality or fitting into what you think is their town game and saying no, you see they were totally different before is hypocritical, look at your own game and how you’re kind of this weird split between garage nothing posting and brain dump analysis. Obviously it’s weird and people take note of it, but I’m town there, why can’t they be town here instead of.

Nope, back to increased viscosity. *takes out microscope* Hi Drew, don’t mind me. Just act natural.

[Bell]

Why is LTo suddenly scummy.
I spent hours waffling between whether they’re a certain kind of town or a certain kind of scum that tries pretty hard to conform and landed on that they were just town. I don’t think that’s changing. I examined it a lot.

[Bell]

Sakura does not need help decoding the back of a cereal box.

@at laplacian …it helps. Forgive me while I stew on it, I’ll probably come back to it and make this tedious for you. Sorry.

[Bell]

On second thought your responses all look okay to me. I feel my responses are more nit picky than constructive and won’t lead to anything helpful.

[Bell]

Hi new avi who dis

Aw.

[Bell]

I naturally hate Hu Tao's current play.

???

I don’t like when I’m forced to come out of my hermitage to sweep away leaf debris.

Rather, I tend to feel responsible for the overall game environment. If I think certain players aren’t really engaging the game in a readable way, I feel obligated to pressure them and/or kill them. But it feels like it gets me off track from the players that are engaging and that I’m having fun trying to read.

[Bell]

But Sakura whenever she is town is OBVIOUS town.

You MIGHT be dissapointed on that front, nevertheless, i just lack time not effort, so maybe i'll end up obvtowning anyway.

I am definitely disappointed on that front.
But that’s fine, I hope you find some space in your schedule(this is not sarcasm).

[Bell]

@FF: I don’t think Ircher is voting me.

[Bell]

Huh, I thought with all that shade they threw Dunnstral’s way they’d have a vote in there.

Sorry.

[Bell]

LTO's fourth point in the case is very concerning and based on that case alone I don't think Bell has a town mindset

It would be nice if people used quotes or something so i dont have to be jumping pages back and forth to know wth are they referencing.

I’m cringing already.
I do not use quotes, just ignore the walls I wrote.

[Bell]

I don’t think it would be weird for scum to have vestigial abilities from their selection. It could be clearing I guess if you think you can outguess a game design where Prism had a say in the final result.

[Bell]

HST keeps trying to interpret naked votes. Usually by adding in their own diluted takes on the player.

I think there might be a means of figuring out their alignment based on this. Trying to put it together in my head.

Idle curiosity from an informed perspective and creating these kind of molded down takes as a thought exercise. To make an approach to another.

This probably won’t go anywhere but, motions. Ircher, why didn’t you vote Dunnstral when you made a case against them and instead made a naked vote on harmony? This resulted in a slow walk reveal when you’re obviously capable of providing your reasoning and your response to HST is worded/approached differently, more referential than your more direct reasoning elsewhere.

[Bell]

Welp I just finished different game so if anyone wants to read that, go for it

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... sweet-home

Thanks. I will read it because you’re proud of your performance there, but I still think you’re town here and don’t really feel like I need more reasons.

[Bell]

I like socialism. So, I guess I like certain governments.

[Bell]

FB, do you think Hana’s paranoia on you is coming across as natural? You’ve been letting it go, but I’m curious.

[Bell]

HST keeps trying to interpret naked votes.

I don’t know I only did this once.

No, you’re right. I was seeing a pattern of two whole times when there was only one.

I hallucinated. @_@

[Bell]

Do you know who puts up the bounties?
The world government.

[Bell]

Nice it begins
VOTE: Firepup

Warning in advance that im playing Infinite Wealth and atm my time for mafia is very limited, but i'll try to read and post at least once a day

to protect sakura I will vote the person voting her:
VOTE: Ircher

More than 1 person is voting me, why ircher?

You guys realize it would also be a scum claim for Pooky not to call me town by page 30 in bell land, right?

My expectations are kind of low there though, uh, assuming Pooky is town this game, which I dunno.

this is such a town bell post

that post looks NAI to me

-TL

If bell is town and is such an easy sort, couldnt this early townread be TMI from a scum firepup to a town Bell?

i thought titus was supposed to be wholesome and here she is yelling at people to die in a fire.....

did the definition of wholesome change since the last time i checked

I think fire is town. I've seen scum fire and town fire. And as scum I thought he was pretty scummy. But that's pretty limited meta

that's... a pretty vague reason

as long as i get scum points for calling out that this is town bella prior to his flip

Don't worry you're getting them before his flip as well.

Sakura Hana

Eh, town i guess.
Also Scum Firepup TMI Town Bell but that's a minor thing.

They feel like sort of tokenish posts. “I am town, therefore I am paranoid of people” you’ve chosen to talk to/about FB the most.

This is more of a me thing, but I think there are a lot of points toward FB being fairly natural here and you’ve not really commented on it, just choosing to point out that FB might be defending me because they know I’m town.

Then again, most people do this.

[Bell]

you been saying im scum and that im tming that bell is town.
i don't know how confident all these takes have been, so i wouldn't call it paranoia right now, but i do find it interesting myself

I voted you in RVS, then i saw very little trolling and a lot of scumhunting from you and i remember that you scumhunting usually means scum!you and the immediate townread on Bell for seemingly no reason seemed to add to that theory.
After i caught up i see that you've been more similar to the town firepup i remember and so i switched my vote instead.

Huh.
See, that’s what I said about them last game and it turned out I was just paranoid.

[Bell]

I town read those posts by joyboy too. Mostly because they were tasting the air unprompted in a way, that from my perspective, is something that would cause the scum team anxiety. They appeared to be trying to settle on a read of me asking a question that points to them thinking it unlikely that I’d post so much if I were scum, but still being willing to check.

I don’t see how that post was scummy. It’s rather complex, but I don’t see the scum angle in asking?

To note though, I know I’m town so obviously it looks different to me.

[Bell]

They even asked me not to comment and wanted to hear from others making it clear it was probably meant to make the scum team feel anxious.

[Bell]

In addition they seemed patient about it, and didn’t really try to make text out of their subtext. Though, I think that’s a personality thing but scum do want their efforts to pay off too

Then again. TL’s reads and statements this game are very out of the standard deviation range for me. I’m missing a TL primer. It’s like joining a game with Pooky in it and never having played with them before, there are so many pookisms that make zero sense unless you’ve played with them before

[Bell]

the problem with showing up late is half the points in your catch up are things people point out on the next page of your catchup

*tilts head* Could you expand on what you mean here? Are you lamenting that you’re wasting your time taking notes of things that people have already addressed? Or wasting your time making open questions that have already been asked by others?

[Bell]

*dive tackles thread*

[Bell]

They even asked me not to comment and wanted to hear from others making it clear it was probably meant to make the scum team feel anxious.

Or that they were much more interested in hearing from other people, as people have certainly heard from me enough. But that goes back to having more interest as town to getting answers from others, rather than scum that have less interest in that sort of thing.

This is just one post out of many tho.

[Bell]

They claim at the start of the day. I wouldn't discount a claim at the end of the day but I've never seen that happen. In any case Bell is not claiming miller and seems to want responses to their claim, so claiming at the end of the day makes no sense.

you know what your argument makes sense

I still don't view the claim as particularly towny but I see the reason behind the claim now

your pushes are good so I kind of think you are town based on early Day 1 standards

-TL

TL, elaborate how you got from this post to your current position that Dunstral's initial posts was weird.
I'd also like you clarify whether you think it was weird in general, or weird, in particular, for Dunstral.

[Bell]

^ Let me alter that question. I didn't read your wording carefully enough.

How does "I was serious" from Dunnstral alter that post from being "good" to "weird." What is now weird about it?
Your initial posting, in response to Dunnstral, from one of my perspectives felt like you were rolling over in a pique of submission and conscientiousness.

I really want to do a temporal lich study group. Just to figure out with their TLisms look like and get an idea of how they think.
*sigh* I love large games, but it's annoying to have my attention pulled in so many directions.

[Bell]

That looked Memey to you? How.
Your perspective is so weird, I don't know what to make it of it lol.

[Bell]

Dunnstral's meme posts are usually pretty demarcated, I can recall maybe one or two times when they were more subtle usually making a reference to something in the body of their paragraph. But it's not common to them.

[Bell]

What gave you the impression that it wasn't meant to be taken seriously?
To note, when I asked if Dunnstral was serious I wasn't meaning "Is dunn joking?" but rather, "was dunn pressuring them in RVS? Where are they now on that read, have they fallen out of love with it, moved their attention to something else?" and other such lines of thought.

[Bell]

You've heard the idea that jokes have a grain of truth to them right?
I have no idea if that's true, but I can make a throw away joke like,

"Dunn must be scum because their reasoning is too good and towns people are wrong and dumb a lot!" while internally wrestling with and analyzing whether I think Dunnstral is informed and taking a position that fits with that or if it's coming from a town perspective."

Ircher's perspective had persuasiveness to it, even though they aren't sold on it themselves because of a few games I've had with Dunstral where they've kind of been like they're being here as scum. Then again this interaction that Dunn probably doesn't remember has happened 4-5 times in other games, it's another rout interaction. Dunn does tend to end up defending me as either alignment, I've even prompted them to do it or cast suspicion at them when they stay on the sidelines. I do tend to make a joke because I'm usually being pressured by a bunch of people, they can't all be scum, so some of them must be town, so Dunn taking a different tack *must mean they're scum. I explained the joke. I spent time writing about this. What am I doing. Their alignment (maybe) could be discerned to how they go about reading people's alignments and what their reasoning is.

[Bell]

ISO’d Hutao. Miniscule town lean.
Slightly more willing to reveal positioning in this game compared to the previous I reviewed just because.
But it’s not strong enough.

[Bell]

Second game review. Still the same idea. town in other. More takes, a little less slow to get their feet wet. A little more circumspect/cautious cautious as scum on putting their foot in it.

Yeah. Extremely minor. Think this read is appropriate. Not enough.

[Bell]

I use peoples meta for me against people all the time, tbf. So I wouldn't use that as an accurate read on me.

Yeah, I caught that. The last scum game flavorleaf explicitly stated that this was why the town lost.

But I mean, it’s not exactly controversial that some would be slower to adopt reads as scum. But yeah, it’s the smallest of smol town leans, so.

[Bell]

Are you done with your catch up Ganski?
I was interested in what your takes would be of the last 15ish pages.

[Bell]

Don’t burn out.

[Bell]

the way bell is treating dunnstral is exactly how caught scum treats a scumread townie who they want to go over but feel awkward about pushing

This is a player who has played mafia for 20 years. Does it make sense for them as town to have their entire interpretation of the game based on a single point of failure?

Pooky knows the pitfalls. They’re deliberately slow walking their progression on other players. Cabd and others have identified that scum pooky tends to be a bit lazier as scum. I think their play here fits that.

They know better. To note, I’ve had like 3 1v1’s with Pooky where we both just kept going back and forth and back and forth for hours. It stresses me out, it stresses Pooky out. Neither of us are very good at not having the last word.

The only reason I’m not going after Pooky is because I know it just takes a lot to get them killed and I don’t think this town really has the stomach to kill Pooky day one and I don’t see the appeal of accelerating my own elimination so that I can pursue Pooky as a stump. Though make no mistake. I am going to do that lol. I know Pooky is looking forward to that. That’s part of the reason I think Pooky isn’t spamming the game as much as they could to kill me earlier. Because they’d be discredited and a 1 for 1 trade isn’t optimal.

[Bell]

I need mechanical and genuine pro-town actions to kill Pooky. That’s just not a thing I can do day 1.

[Bell]

Oh and also the game would be a dumpster fire. I’ve listened to feedback on that. So I am not engaging Pooky how I usually would. I think the game is better for it.

Though this is happening much earlier than usual. I tend to avoid giving a read on Pooky and wait it out and decide later, usually after they’ve burned a bridge with another player that accuses them of being scum which gives me more confidence in my read of their alignment. Then it’s a monthlong campaign/slog.

I kind of expect these posts will set off an effort post by Pooky but that is okay.

[Bell]

A 7.
My read of you is actually based mostly in that mess of posts of my interpretation of the first 10 pages of the game that Titus asked me to note bin.

A summary is that after worrying back and forth on whether you’re straight forward town or conformist scum, I landed on straight forward town.

[Bell]

The read is based off of my experience with a player named Panzer and a player named furtive something. Both times I spent a whole lot of time thinking about whether they really were that dense and their emotional response to me saying it to their faces. I think your emotional response to that and by your general play town you fits better.

[Bell]

viewtopic.php?t=89120
viewtopic.php?t=87795

I’m in a hydra with Notscience called milobird in one of them.

[Bell]

Oh. Do you really want me and Pooky to argue back and forth about what their meta is actually like. Because that’s what’s going to happen.

I’ll write what I think their play is like and then Pooky will bury it with corrections while also saying that my post on their meta shows that I’m scum.

In general:
Pooky has less reads and less fingers swirling the pot. They’re slower in the beginning of the game.
Pooky can be super negative as either alignment, but I tend to think they’re a whole lot less charitable about a person’s play and they tend to try to bury players that suspect them especially in particularly vulnerable moments in a game. I’m not sure if it’s just their rhetorical style but what they’re saying about my meta in Ktane and here that confidence, that insistence, they tend to do it a lot.
Their argument style is relatively uncharitable and biased. They’re very on top of players they have to convince about their perspective. They will whisper in your hears constantly as long as I’m saying something too. They also tend to overcommit themselves when trying to kill someone. They make half hearted attempts to get past a 1v1 intact but I’m not really sure it works.
They tend to hide their mechanical knowledge more as scum or thoughts on them but are usually really good about understanding set ups and mechanics and tend to reveal that when brought up.

It’s kind of like everything Pooky touches as scum becomes a weapon and they throw it at you, while taking a very different tone or stance with others.

This isn’t complete, not by far. But I’m about to drive home and, it’ll do in getting the gist of how I think about Pooky scum. There’s a lot there I would go about fixing or being more specific but yeah. I can’t right now.

[Bell]

in fact bell even claiming that he expected he might get voted out in

this game

is the SUREST tell that he is definitely mafia because town!Bell never expects to get mis-eliminated

in fact he even had some long ass streak of never getting mis-eliminated like ever that I finally broke in Pokemon because he's sooooo obviously town when he's town that its basically impossible to yeet him.

lol, I’m super defensive as town. Would I be defensive if I wasn’t worried about dying? The argument defeats itself.

But do you see what I mean. Like this post this interaction right here is what the game will devolve into if I keep responding to Pooky. It’s usually fairly easy to dismantle pooky’s arguments like this one, but people tend not to think much of it or question why or how they’d make an argument at this level.

[Bell]

Personally I think I’ve been very hard to misyeet as town this game. It’s frustrating for scum to see me post my way out of a bind. Pooky even predicted that I might.

I dunno though. I’d rather focus back on other players or keep rereading. This isn’t my preferred topic right now. I can’t lim pooky this round. Look at him.

Could you lim that? Without any tools?
I can’t.

[Bell]

VOTE: Bell

pooky's hypothesis is definitely holding up

-TL

This guy.

[Bell]

in fact bell even claiming that he expected he might get voted out in

this game

is the SUREST tell that he is definitely mafia because town!Bell never expects to get mis-eliminated

in fact he even had some long ass streak of never getting mis-eliminated like ever that I finally broke in Pokemon because he's sooooo obviously town when he's town that its basically impossible to yeet him.

lol, I’m super defensive as town.

ok which game were you super defensive about yourself in d1

bring the receipts

Thank you for scum claiming. I feel less worried now. I’m not *glad* per se that the last two pages have been sacrificed to the Bell-Pooky interaction black hole, but I had hoped you’d make an argument that I think only scum you would make.

[Bell]

i think bell is probably going to be eliminated unless theres a massive shift in game and its day 1 and I don't feel like dying on some hill for bell.

I got night actions to do

I mean, I’ll still be right here.

[Bell]

I was gunna but I couldn’t be assed too because I had no idea what you could possibly be referring to. It didn’t seem likely to be AI, it confused me because it’s like you’re saying you’re an alt because of a game that never happened. It’s bizarre, but I’m sort of single minded about the hunting thing and I haven’t really circled to trying to read you in depth yet.

[Bell]

Oh. Do you really want me and Pooky to argue back and forth about what their meta is actually like.

No, I want you to link to this "third party guide" to PookyTheMagicalBear you claim exists and shows that he his Mafia here. I don't really want to hear either of you talk about the other for at least the next 48 hours, mostly because I am literally not going to read those posts as they do not matter.

Cabd and others have identified that scum pooky tends to be a bit lazier as scum.

If you cannot produce this, how am I to evaluate it? I am certainly not inclined to take you at your word?

I’m going to drive home now and then I’ll dig through it. I think they said it in blood stained.

[Bell]

Suddenly I remembered why I hate digging through meta and just tell people to do it themselves.

“
Pooky: I think my take on Pooky is colored by often having read his recent games either knowing his alignment or seeing his first few days of posting from a more removed point. But I'd disagree with Bell in that regard, that usually I can see where town-Pooky is pushing people toward content or doing things he can sort rather than going off into the outfield to pick daisies like he does as scum. I think he's a bit like Cabd-scum in that this can change if he sees something shiny worth doing in the main game as scum, but then it tends to be more--insular?--like the LOLMasons in that FakeGod game. I'm not seeing anything here so far that makes me think town!Pooky. That might change in a couple game days with more data, but that's where I am now.”

That’s penguin alien who was in a hydra with Cabd.
Cabd was saying in the game as Pooky’s read didn’t move that they were scummy because they weren’t trying to sort them. Calling them lazy initially before Cabd started to dip into scum suspicion and they became progressively more disappointed in them.
Then pooky just baited us into getting eliminated because he had a silly role and didn’t actually need to live.

[Bell]

Sigh. If I must I guess I can pull out the mena and and Kora stuff. Which is more recent, but I don’t really agree with them.

I think my own meta of pooky is fine. They’re fitting with what I conceptualize to be their scum play.

[Bell]

I don’t really think Pooky adapts their play much. On meta. They don’t have a lot of give aways and what they do works fine for scum them.

[Bell]

Quick question in all this. You keep using quotes, “picking daisies”
“Pooky manuals”
But I did not say either of those things.
Do you just not know how quotation marks work or what

[Bell]

Well, no. pooky is not trying to die in this game.
They weren’t trying to die in that game until day 3, they took a massive turn. But was playing co NBC conventionally until that point.

I respect maybe 3 players as accurate in mafia. Cabd is one of them. I probably respect them too much.

[Bell]

We’re playing a game of mafia right now. So you’ll have to forgive me for largely deciding to examine it through the lense. We can maybe talk about that after the game if I’m wrong if you want. I think you seem to be pivoting and using your emotions as an excuse to do so.

[Bell]

I sincerely don’t know why you would think I wouldn’t be able to post after I die, why I’d lie about that and think it was largely said from a place of emotion than of logic as it’s mostly meant I think to be a put down more than anything.

You aren’t showing this level of disrespect to other players who has used less substantiated. this level of frustration does not appear to be in line with your frustration with others. It does appear to be consistent with your statements which goes back to my conception of you as dense.

And maybe you don’t appreciate that and this is you venting after that. Since it did seem to genuinely bother you.

But Mafia. In a game of it. People say things.

On the other hand,

[Bell]

My experience with Maria and Beeboy hydra’s is that beeboy is a myth and when they do post I never know what to make of them anyway. So I prefer trying and failing to read Maria instead.

[Bell]

I’ve definitely been trying to live. I just know that I will probably have pooky’s head on a platter either way. So, i’m not pulling out all the stops. Being like “I must spend the next 12 hours giving my death reads” isn’t an issue cause I’ll still be here.

But I consider this pretty subtle, and I’m kind of confused why you actually think that given I’ve put in more effort than most players would.

[Bell]

Pooky does this as scum. They just filibuster. It’s unpleasant to fight against. Which is why I’m pretty happy with my role.

[Bell]

btw since the two of you are here- either of you want to sell the class on why Drew is mafia and we should yeet him?

I think the spent the first 40ish pages of the game carefully saying nothing. It’s what pissed me off about them in our last game too.
Their posting got better just recently but I’m still seeing it. Could be personality, but I’m perfectly happy killing it.

[Bell]

Dunn’s your best friend?

[Bell]

Ugh, I’m being trolled aren’t I. I don’t think they’d actually say that if it were true.

[Bell]

@maria: you’re missing a lot about me TBH. But how I expect people to reach a correct Town Bell read is insane. So.

[Bell]

I’m happy to listen to your Dunn read whenever you’re ready for it.

I lack confidence in reading Dunn.

[Bell]

I am so confused as to why multiple players in this game apparently are willing and excited to play anything other than their best. Are we not trying to win this game? Is mafiascum actually a site where people role play and just prank each other to the detriment of anyone trying to play the game for real?

this is such a mood

Do you think I’m not trying.

[Bell]

That’s putting words in my mouth.
But I mean
You just say whatever when you’re scum and we reach this point.

[Bell]

Am I an asshole for wondering if they just got carried away while acting out the equivalent of a hall monitor in a play.

[Bell]

My opinion is that we’re in the middle of a game of mafia and that everything said here needs to be taken with that in mind. Spoiler tags included.

[Bell]

Sure I can brain dump.
Pooky calling me out there made me sensitive because even when I’m town, I have a thin skin to criticism and part of my win condition is being town read as town. I considered deleting the if you’re town here but decided against it because it’s still accurate and I don’t know their alignment.

I have a discord with a bunch of players. From this community retired and otherwise.

People mention Sakura favorably when they were brought up something something hey Sakura is back. brought up. and FF commented on it recently, so even though it was outside of the game I had a certain level of anticipation for them.
I also felt there was a difference because when they did post they posted more in my preferred manner, a little something of mafia in every post.
I’m sort of an absolutist so it slips into my perspective sometimes and I can talk past someone. To me, I’m doing another possible town a favor by telling them to direct their attention elsewhere, I know that, they don’t know that but if they believe me and they’re town we both benefit, I’m less at risk and they’re more likely to be accurate. It’s rare, but sometimes players do just turn around based on that and it’s always kind of awesome to see. It’s nuts, but there you go.

Being an absolutist is kind of why Ipity you if you’re town this game because for all your effort, your most significant contribution has been a case on town, one that I suspect Pooky as scum took advantage of so they didn’t have to do anything. FYI, I’m not sure if they’re buddying you or if they’re setting me up to miss later down the road.
It’s awkward from my perspective and I tend to feel more entitled and more annoyed the more I post and say things and still get suspected. It’s been a topic in games before. Something about not being believed when I’m sincere, coupled with a kind of misanthropic dislike of human’s flawed perspective that results in war crimes, and a kind of selfish desire to be left alone and only play the parts of mafia I like (solving and getting to know people) while not spending time explaining myself.

It’s been a topic thing in games before.
I listened to them, the emotion is still there, but I’m better at drawing back before I go all the way off the deep end.

Also most of my posts in this game have been on my phone and I’m kind .

It’s a gross perspective, I’m not even being honest with myself because obviously I’m putting myself in the worst light with this response.

[Bell]

Ah, what I meant to say is that I’m lazy and because most of my posts are on my phone, and again, I’m lazy I can’t be assed to correct grammar or even go back so that my sentences make sense. I just hope people get the gist.

[Bell]

If I die or get voted out, they ask me if I’d like to be a tree stump or not. Then I can post for the rest of the game. It’s not blockable and it cannot be interfered with because it only activates when I’m outside of the game as a dead or voted out player.

My original ask was that I’d become a tree stump if I was ever poisoned or had oil poured on me, because I was trying to balance my asks with probability so the more powerful the role, the less it would activate unless specific circumstances occurred.

[Bell]

I am in fact claiming my role properly.

[Bell]

I personally suspect Prism was involved. Because they thought it would be funny.

@LTO: no, I’ve never played with Hana or if I have and I don’t really remember it. I’ve just heard nice things.

[Bell]

I was giving you the last word. Do you know how hard that is for me.

I’m known to omgus, scum find me annoying to eliminate and if they finally manage it? I pop right back.

[Bell]

Honestly the only way you’re getting out of this alive is if you or someone on your team has an ability.

It’s pretty much the only thing I’m worried about since you painted yourself into a corner by using an appeal to authority argument.

[Bell]

It really has been Bell versus the world, hasn’t it.

[Bell]

Well, that’s mostly my fault the world and Bell don’t agree.

I’m happy to do a trade. If anyone’s interested in that. Bell’s skull for Pooky’s skull.
You can even take my skull first so that you’ll know Pooky’s skull isn’t very valuable.

[Bell]

I thought you’d figured it out because of the omgus joke post you made.

[Bell]

It’s that. I’m annoying. I will annoy you.

If I were scum and flipped I wouldn’t really be as annoying because my heart wouldn’t be in it.

Prism and FF knows which side of the bread i’m buttered on. I like being town.

[Bell]

By that I mean it’s that I Omgus. So no matter who was responsible, they’d kill me after much argument only to realize the argument never ends.

[Bell]

Pooky. These aren’t questions.
You forgot to add the question marks so you’re not even pretending right.

[Bell]

No. I asked to be a a tree stump. It was my first pick. I’ve really wanted to be one for about 4 years now.
They buffed it tho. <3

Yeah, it’s really hard to lim me, that’s why it would be *extra* funny if they accomplished it and all they got for their trouble was a a pissed off ghost.

[Bell]

pooky, you don't seem to think bell is town yet you're not voting him.
is there a reason for this?
~rh

They answered this. They can’t actually vote town.

[Bell]

hey pooky, how long u gonna hold onto your vote like a lurker.
We got places to be, scum to kill.

Why not join me in voting Dunnstral.

when I vote someone they automatically drop dead

nah i cant use my power for evil

[Bell]

*stares at RH*
You’re funny.

Though, it might be one of Pooky’s open wolf things.

[Bell]

I would recommend you actually read that game instead of trusting Titus.

[Bell]

Titus isn’t a meta player.

[Bell]

I would recommend you actually read that game instead of trusting Titus.

I WANNA FIGHT YOU!

Sure. But you know my price for incompetence. One Bear skull after. Pirate promise?

[Bell]

VOTE: Pooky

[Bell]

Good luck with your romance novel Titus.

[Bell]

Actually, no, dont bother, ill just ignore any meta arguments from here on out
VOTE: Pooky

VOTE: Pooky

explain why you would vote obvious town that was townspewed by a perspective slip

this applies to both Sakura Hana and Bell

without an explanation I am treating this as a scumclaim

-TL

Because they’re scum and you’re mediocre at mafia, probably.

[Bell]

Or you’re scum.
I dunno.
I’m not mafia.

Your posts have a depressing lack of a ground floor for reasoning. Ironic really given your requests for reasoning.

[Bell]

I want a bear skull.

[Bell]

Yeah. I posted them.

[Bell]

UNVOTE:
I’m all ears. You can post it later though. After you rest and get some sleep or whatever.

Work tomorrow and I’m probably going to be more responsible so expect a dip.

[Bell]

Morning!
As I said I’m going to be a better nurse today. So probably not posting for awhile.

I do not trust TL and RH’s weirdness to be scum aligned.

Though, I’m surprised RH is even frustrated with TL. They’re usually pretty considerate and understanding but that’s more of a personality thing. I do expect them to grow in interesting ways.

I don’t kill people for bad takes unless there is specifically something underlying them that appears to be forwarding a scum win condition.

TL has been weird *all game* and RH is usually weird, so, yeah.

This surprises no one. But usually pooky’s posting style when they throw that kitchen sink tends to result in people thinking they’re just tunneled.
I think it may be one of those routes where it just takes less energy to think that than having to accuse Pooky of weirdness and then have to engage with a pooky smothering you in posts.

Pooky knows how to logically dismantle arguments. Even ones better than the ones they make, this discrepancy is because their reasons are not genuine, it’s an intentional dumbing down of their own cases. Because the point isn’t to have a well reasoned argument, it’s just to kill someone.
So they’ll apply a higher standard and greater scrutiny to people’s reasons to disagree with them than to their own arguments.

IMO.

[Bell]

Uh, what I’m trying to say because I fail at conciseness is that because Pooky isn’t concerned with the truth their cases look like first drafts.

While their challenges to people that don’t share their agenda get a few drafts. Because they want to control the outcome.

Scum aligned. Imo.

[Bell]

Bell i could use your thoughts on maid cafe, if thats ok

Sorry, I can’t. It’s 6:55 and I have to be at work at 7:30 and I will not be able to post until around 6 pm. School work zoom meeting after work.

I think it was interesting that they didn’t fill throat engage with my posts and were round about in saying I was town. I don’t disagree with Pooky’s argument, but note that because they’re not hunting, they don’t have much reason to look at them from a perspective of how maid is working a wagon. I have a genuine desire for affirmation though and that really affects how I feel about someone’s posting.

A part of me wanted to town bin sakura simply for quoting a bunch of my posts, because people keep saying I’m not giving reads or analysis when I’m trying. Then I went into that spiral joke about only scum town read me. Before just taking a step back and realizing that hey, it’s hard to know what their approach is. I think their response to pressure from Titus and Pooky is interesting but I think it’s almost certainly a personality thing and probably not a scum thing

I do make arguments like that to shake up things though or just have this look at the shape of the game and try to solve that way.

I find their idea of a stagnating game with a rotating cast of Bell votes obviously compelling, but I’m town. Nobody else knows that. So, they’re at least half right.

Oh hey would you look at that I gave a take anyway.

Shit.

[Bell]

why are we even trying to vote someone rn tbh

*presses pause*

[Bell]

Anyway i've done my due dilligence, your follow up doesnt give me the impression that you're approaching Bell in good faith, which is a scum trait, and now you're doing the same to me, where you're apparently expecting me to throw a big ass town case of Bell showing all his scumhunting, where i threw majority of the scumhunting posts i could find during an ISO, which is something anyone can do btw, and then pick and choosing some to try to dig a hole into my argument so that you can keep pretending Bell is scum.
This isn't a town mindset, you're not scum hunting, you're ignoring evidence that doesn't support your idea of Bell scum and throwing it away, and digging holes into whatever you can to try to undermine my argument instead.
VOTE: Pooky
I'm done reasoning with you.

I love you. Please be town.

[Bell]

No, I was writing about how it wasn’t in good faith and then I stopped because I don’t want to drown the thread.

You look at the word “portrait” and instead of asking why is he using the word portrait that’s weird.

I explained what I was saying in other posts I made. That they were painting potraits of *people* that didn’t deeply touch on people’s alignment and were complementary, as the artist who makes a portrait wants to please their subject so they pay them and retain their service.
You just take the stupidest interpretation possible and run with it.

[Bell]

So, what Sakura is saying makes perfect sense to me.

[Bell]

As a bear wrestler I advise being careful. I’ve made this point a lot but it remains true they will exhaust you. So how you think is healthiest to engage will save you a lot of grief.

[Bell]

Lemon, may I receive one head pat regardless of my other reads this game if Pooky is scum.

[Bell]

I don’t see much in Drew’s posts that indicate that they’re fine.
I’m not sure what you’re making of Titus. Their play is always bizarre. They’ve been maneuvering but it’s not clear what their alignment is.

[Bell]

Lemon, may I receive one head pat regardless of my other reads this game if Pooky is scum.

Pooky is 90% rand town but sure

Thank you.

[Bell]

gth - Pooky's being obnoxious to try to get me to help him miselim a town Bell or failing that, say i'm scum for "failing to produce why i think bell's scumhunting is town" despite mentioning it multiple times already and use that read to discredit me in the future.
I'm done talking to Pooky, i can't see him as anything other than scum right now.

It’s like looking into a mirror. *tear*
Pooky’s still going to bait you into engaging though.

[Bell]

I’d rather kill Drew or Laplacian.

@Pooky: thanks.

Later tonight after the zoom meeting, I’d like to finish looking at some other players.

[Bell]

I'll do my catchup a bit later. But Sakura is highly likely town. She's doing her town thing

Noted, thank you.

[Bell]

One caramel frappe with whipped creame, grande please.

That’s coffee right?

Right?

[Bell]

Why did you neighborize those two?

[Bell]

Have you shared all of your abilities with Titus and has Titus shared all of their abilities with you?

If so, who shared first?

Okay so TL is standoffish and Titus is supportive.
Then TL completely shut down.

[Bell]

They sure are but it makes sense for TLO to neighbor them when they were all like “I’m a mother hen” and so forth and don’t know Titus is from the moon.

[Bell]

Have you shared all of your abilities with Titus and has Titus shared all of their abilities with you?

What exactly makes you think in any world I'm answering this? Especially coming from you?

Your emotions and aggravation make no sense to me. I don’t expect you to answer, but I’m going to ask because I’m curious if there is a leak. I’m curious if you’re being manipulated, they’ve manipulated you etc.

Neighborhoods are petri dishes they tend to amplify people’s reads of one another.

[Bell]

Or you manipulated them etc.

I would like you to explain, specifically why you are angry and snappish at me.

[Bell]

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHOSE BOUNTIES SHOULD BE CLAIMED TODAY ARE HARMONY, DUNN, BELL, OR POOKY!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Did I delete the post where I asked you if you’d be willing to make a pirate promise to kill Pooky if I died during the day?

[Bell]

I no longer scumread Joyboy due to recent posts from Joyboy

mainly, asking for clarification on LTO's push on me

-TL

Why did you stop posting in the neighborhood?

[Bell]

They said you were standoffish in the neighborhood. What do you think they were referring to?

RH stopped posting in it too. Do you know their reasons? Did you communicate about whether to keep posting or did it naturally slide off?

[Bell]

Update to my reads.

Sakura Hana: lean town.

@Maria, Beeboy is Kellog's frosted flakes.

[Bell]

*tilts head*
No, I pretty much think RH is just easy to eliminate as either alignment.
Does Titus think RH is scum?

[Bell]

Bell - Sc-I mean town.

Joyboy - small town lean.

Dunnstral - Miniscule scum lean.

Maid Cafe - I don't know. The pageantry is difficult to interpret and I'm not talking about their maid gimmick (hydra of MariaR and Beeboy)
HolySpiritTurtle: I've read all their posts but I haven't thought about all their posts. Need to look closer.

Laplacian: scum lean.
Hu Tao - Miniscule town lean.

Doctor Drew: Small scum lean.

PookyTheMagicalBear - To- I mean scum.

Firebringer - Moderate town lean.

Sakura Hana - Moderate town lean.

LadyTerminallyOffline - Moderate town lean, but I can see them being scum due to emotions. I'd prefer to look at the stove, than let it simmer, though I understand why Lemon may not want me to, but I can't imagine it will be healthy for the game if I don't figure out if their emotions are AI or not.
Relativistic Harmony: (hydra of TemporalLich and RH9): s(mol) town lean, due mostly to paranoia. I figure they'd be at least a little conventional as scum.
light_ganski: Read their posts, somehow even with PBPA I want more from them. I'd consider them another HST, I've read it but I haven't thought about it. It's simply difficult to parse for me.

lemon.tangerine: Town, small chance of being low cunning scum instead.

Titus: ....They vibe town. But it's like watching a collage of Titus things. Titus is dramatic, Titus makes no sense, Titus is in a neighborhood and prances and throws their weight around ( I dunno why, but this is something that they just do as town, if they're in a neighborhood they just seem like they have more gravity to them). titus is in love with a read they have and pushes it pretty hard, usually I'm in the stands watching it happen to someone else, so it's easier to see how it fits. I am not sure how Titus is using the audiences they have to work with to town's advantage. But I don't get Titus.

Ircher: slight town lean.

[Bell]

@Dunn: Yeah, the game thread will know who I targeted. They didn't specify if it would be just as night begins or just when I target them.

[Bell]

Actually let me come back with a clear head because rn I'm hard tunneling out of pure annoyance that my hydra partner isn't here. But if you have reasons to think any of RH/DD/Lemon/Lap are town LMK.

I townread Laplacian and am null on Doctor Drew

Tell me more about Laplacian town.

[Bell]

*tilts head*
No, I pretty much think RH is just easy to eliminate as either alignment.
Does Titus think RH is scum?

Yes. Just sorting stuff with lto.

Why do you think RH is scum?

[Bell]

They're in two neighborhoods. LTO is in a neighbor with TITUS and RH.
RH and Titus are in a neighborhood.

[Bell]

Everyone calm down.
He didn't say he laughed.

[Bell]

I can’t see a a good reason to use my ability.
I can’t think of anyone I especially feel I need to spend time in a neighborhood with.

As a reminder I take someone out of the game for 1 game night and 1 game day and then we’re vulnerable when we go back to night and we’re released when day starts.

Last call.
And by last call I mean, I’m probably not voting RH. Sorry. I just don’t feel anything when I think about it.

[Bell]

i don't know why u guys bother with RH claim here. It isn't like theres a claim that will magically make u guys townread the slot lol

I’ll argue that they should live if their abilities are useful enough.

[Bell]

That tree stump revival thing sounds moderately useful.

[Bell]

Funnily enough I wouldn’t have claimed off the bat if I were scum, because I’d have been afraid of fucking up somehow.

[Bell]

Bell u can abduct me, I give you permission

Are you serious?

[Bell]

Ominous.

[Bell]

Elaborate on three. I can’t tell if your role verified thing hits all the abilities a player has or just the name or what the abilities do etc.

@pedit: thinking.

Just spamming abilities could be fun. But I’m pretty of a mind to try winning the game and exiting the game for another cycle makes me nervous but this may shock you, but I’m sort of a control freak.

TL your thinking is alien to me. I don’t see how, in a game where the mods want to give the people what they want, they’d say no to multiple tree stump abilities.

[Bell]

@RH, why were you curious about my tree stump ability? TL sounds like it made them extra cautious of my alignment.
What did you feel/think?

[Bell]

Yeah, if that’s all FB had been saying about me I’d be pretty suspicious that they were using math.
But they haven’t so.

Also, while I don’t want to shoot you down, and hell maybe if I could be assed to check the context you’d have a point that’s far more nuanced that what I’m seeing.

But people say the same shit every game as different alignments.

[Bell]

It was added.

[Bell]

Pooky doesn’t get a ride on the magic school bus witness protection program because they tried to murder me.

[Bell]

It doesn’t appeal to me because it doesn’t advance my win condition. I already know what alignment I am, and I’d rather get sorted through faster or persuade everyone that I don’t play like this as Scum.

Basically, I’d rather get checked or shot N1 than wait in a void for one day.
It also means I get to kill you faster.
I dunno what shenanigans you can get up to.

[Bell]

I target during the day. It activates that night. Then they’re stuck with me for game day.
Then during the next night we’re both vulnerable.
Still dunno if the neighborhood breaks.

I’m not sure if people really understood that we’re dropped off at night.

[Bell]

It doesn’t appeal to me because it doesn’t advance my win condition. I already know what alignment I am, and I’d rather get sorted through faster or persuade everyone that I don’t play like this as Scum.

Basically, I’d rather get checked or shot N1 than wait in a void for one day.
It also means I get to kill you faster.
I dunno what shenanigans you can get up to.

Okay in what world do you not want to be confirmed Bell

If I die I also get confirmed.

[Bell]

It sounds like everybody got told no.
I get it, it’s sad to have all these cool abilities and then you just get shot by some nerd with poor impulse control.

[Bell]

This is exactly why they should have said yes though.

[Bell]

It was modified, my original ask was a role block plus protect.
I guess they thought that was too boring. So they kind of merged my neighborhood and bullet proof asks.

[Bell]

If you guys can figure out a way to assure me TL is town I guess I can take them and we can both send out investigates N3.

The discussion would not be riveting though.

[Bell]

Well, I’m curious how this turns out.

[Bell]

Hold up.

[Bell]

Two things.

Sorry at work.

1. Favorite vegetable is tomatoes. I received a message addressed to Hu Tao.
2. I have a bomb strapped to me, I die at the end of the day. I get three guesses on who planted the bomb on my chest, it explodes at the end of the game day.

[Bell]

It gets diffused.

[Bell]

It kills me.

[Bell]

Sorry, correction if I guess correctly I’m informed before day end, I’m waiting on ff for whether my guesses are one at a time or sequential.

The ability seems silly since it seems relatively double edged.

[Bell]

Based off flip. Without any results and not having read literally anything. I don’t even know who died.

My suspicion was heading toward Dunn.

And Pooky is a hold over. For now

[Bell]

I have four patients in my office. You’re gunna have to wait. Sorry.

[Bell]

I already submitted a pooky guess in my note PT.
But I did it before N1 resolved haven’t looked if mod responded.

But yeah feel free to control the rest, I don’t care.

[Bell]

Pooky didn’t do it lol.

[Bell]

Hey, sometimes you just need to check the obvious answer I even said Pooky probably wouldn’t be that dumb in notes Pt.

Lo and behold he wasn’t dumb.

[Bell]

Immediately as night actions were resolving so about an hour and a half ago.

[Bell]

That makes things very, very easy that is super bullshit but it favors me. So it’s my kind of bullshit.

[Bell]

So Bell you were strapped up in the day?#confused

No. I just got the message about 2 hours ago while FF was resolving.
Same for hu Tao message

[Bell]

Scum tried to bomb me smh. Unless it's town that tried to. But if so they should claim it.

Also what did the letter say

Why would anyone try to bomb you. *confuses noises*

[Bell]

Yeah sure, I’m going to go back to focusing on job.

Sorry I can’t respond faster.
If everyone would be so kind don’t speed murder anyone while I’m out.

[Bell]

I read it lemon, I’m holding off. Already said I would when TLO asked.

I’m at work so I’m not going to make any additional guesses right now anyway.

[Bell]

I am not a lightning rod, all of my roles were explained as best as I am able.

[Bell]

I received only two messages both of which have already been explained.

I am holding out on the full Hu Tao message at the messenger’s request. But while that information is pertinent, it’s not really something that seems urgent to reveal. I’ll talk more about it later in the game day. If they don’t.

[Bell]

Oh and I don’t know who the messenger is.

[Bell]

Also Bell can you tell me what the letter to me said? Was it a love letter

It was a love letter. They said very nice things about you. Sadly I will never tell you what they wrote because I don’t do compliments.

[Bell]

Vest was disarmed fyi.

[Bell]

I’m not even going to try to untangle that.
Pooky should do it, he’s great about mechanics when he tries.

[Bell]

I think the amount of shenanigans around me plus no one is claiming responsibility means either scum targeted me or FB did. They might’ve body guarded somebody else and caught the mafia shot.

This game is deeply Bell Centric.
Even when the game tried not to be by seemingly everyone targeting Hu Tao.

[Bell]

Anyone an expert on mech to unentangle all this mess?

Pooky should do it to make up for misreading me/being scum.

[Bell]

Making sure. but the possibility I was lightning rodded has been eliminated?

[Bell]

This is so annoying. I've done nothing wrong except be targeted by night actions. And maid even confirmed that it was all actions so nothing I did

Don’t use the f word (fair) in mafia.

[Bell]

I mean you’d know, rather TLO would since they’d have gotten a hell of a lot of results.

[Bell]

I don’t really know which of you has what, but none of my business. I’m town.

[Bell]

Slow down. Some people haven’t even posted yet.

[Bell]

and by some I mean Dunnstral.
Unless I missed his post.

[Bell]

Literally being voted because I was targeted by night actions is the funniest/dumbest thing.

This is the worst angle to take Hu Tao. Examine why people are voting you.

[Bell]

And then summarize it so that I can understand and then vote you too.

[Bell]

I'm not sure which is more asinine this game or my client who gets his soverign legal advice through tiktok.

Let the zoomers decide who is guilty and who is not.