JOAT uPick | FIN!

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: dunnstral

I'm fine with this

[Ircher]

Bell - sus
Joyboy - I don't hate at the moment. He did the same thing as town last game.
Dunnstral - who?
Maid Cafe - mindmelted could be town
HolySpiritTurtle- who?
Laplacian - very similar to the town lap I saw for 2 games, role-playing aside
greedant - who?
PookyTheMagicalBear - don't hate any of their posts
Firebringer - prob town seems more natural than his scum game
Sakura Hana - could be scum, when she was scum she was similar to this
LadyTerminallyOffline - mind melted could be town
Relativistic Harmony - who?
light_ganski -who?
lemon.tangerine - scum
Titus - I think she gets more obvious as the day goes on.
Ircher - I was scum with him before and it's similar so far but not a reliable read. Leaning null

For someone caught up with the game, you have too many "who"in this post. Plenty of those people have made contributions that you can at least evaluate. Maybe your conclusion will still be null, but it's not like they aren't present at all.

Spoiler: Long Post

1. 4 scum. it doesn't really matter for the purposes of hunting at this point how many scum there are as long as there is more than 1.
2. I think this was stated in the set up. But i don't really recall it, I didn't read it closely. It's probably safe to assume so. I dislike multiball because it's impossible for some players to be differentiated, or rather it can get really difficult.
3. I dunno. i'm not sure how this helps to keep it mind right now.
4. Dunno.
5. Don't care.
6. Elaborate? I don't get it.
7. This isn't an assumption. It's explicitely stated what our win condition is and it's to kill all the mafia.
8. This isn't correct. The point is to reach majority. Staying alive helps with that but not always. This is common sense.

9. Pooky says I don't get frustrated as scum and I feel all guilty. He's not wrong but basically, he completely ignored his own writing about that when I started fitting that frame because it was probably inconvenient. Or they just don't change their mind good.

10. An opinion. One that with careful reading doesn't make sense. I have pushed against people that have scum read me and tried to point out the flaws and tried to figure out if these flaws were because they're scum or because they're flawed. Failing to reach a conclusion is normal for me.

11. I have a feeling I'm going to fail to understand what you're getting at with these, given, well. The first claim I did specifically because I wanted to be constructive and work toward the town win con by working with and communicating my abilities to other people. And the second was to correct a misconception in the perspective of Pooky about what I was getting at. I don't deny it was dumb to claim my second role, but it doesn't really do any harm either. Well unless you think a tree stump is something scum would do. I really want to emphasize what you think or say is convenient, isn't convenient, because it fails the ockham's razor test. It is not a simple explanation for a post, it's a more complicated one that requires more cogs. This sort of complexity has made it so few doubt that I'm a tree stump because it's verifiable. *both* of the abilities I've claimed are verifiable. Which itself is rare and unusual.
12. Titus's argument was that it was better that I would die because of it. Likewise, using logical fallacies or misinterpreting someone is not scummy. It's just what it says on the tin, it's a fallacy.
13. Is it discrediting someone to point out that a scum slip wasn't a scum slip and that I've been, in the past accused of making scum slips when I was town and this is another example of that? Is it discrediting someone to say that if something is close to a 1:1 ratio of town to scum it doesn't make sense why you're scum reading me? Is it discrediting someone to ask why claiming out the gate is scummy, have another player come in and then supplement why it wasn't scummy get the player that thought it was scummy to agree and then watch as other players carry the water of an argument that the originator retracted as *being* scummy with no comment or acknowledgement that they did so? Is it scummy to laugh at someone for saying "That sure is convenient that you have that role to explain away that post you got called out on" when it's my actual role?
I don't think so!

14. This is normal, you're confusing me being annoying which you've already said you were tired with, with an alignment. I post a lot. When pressured *I respond a lot* and * i omgus a lot* and I navel gaze a lot. This is unusual, but it's not unusual *for me* As are contentless posts mixed with not so contentless posts. I get called out for saying nothing all the time. This isn't a secret.

15. yeah, I would pretty much never read those rules and come up with a fake claim. It's just my actual claim. Multiple players know I suck at fake claiming. Uh I think. If you'd like I could actually point out where I made a post about wanting to be a tree stump really badly I think almost 3-4 years ago. It's that far back. I really liked the idea of being untouchable and being free just to hunt the whole game without the responsibility of voting wrong. Please note that when pressured this is what I devolve into, so you can see the appeal for me.
But as people have mentioned, this doesn't matter. I asked for the role before I knew what I would role. The point is that my intent behind that post was a childish "heh, I can totally harass you if you fuck up and misread me Pooky" and that became I knew his alignment. Even though the perspective itself, is just making the assumption that he's town and doesn't make sense from the perspective of me being scum because, obviously I have no plans to harass Pooky for saying they suck if I were scum. The whole thing just kind of falls apart when viewed from 4 or 5 different angles. There are more incorrect angles than correct ones, and Pooky either chose the incorrect one because they're scum or because they thought what worked for enchant would work for someone who is very, very different from enchant.
16. The strawman argument does not work, because Titus does not and has not pretty much ever listened to me before. The argument that they would listen to me, is, in the context of our previous play history *laughable* They ignored me both times I said math blade was scum *and* ignored me once when I said Math blade was scum while I had a cop guilty on them and could throw perfectly accurate cases about them, I couldn't claim the cop guilty but my arguments that were correct, weren't persuasive to them. The bonuses they're talking about aren't bonuses. Their argument that they can read off my interactions with others and make accurate associations doesn't pan out because Titus and I have been over that their method doesn't seem to pass muster from random chance (I'm not saying, I'm better, I'm not I'm just saying Titus isn't an especially accurate scum hunter) It just doesn't appeal to me. And from my perspective it's a terrible call not only for those reasons but also because I'm town and they way they initially worded it was that even if I *was town* it was better that I'm a tree stump than not, while thinking I was scum. I'm going to object to that.
17. 247. Is an obvious joke and has nothing to do with your alignment. You can see why I think you're straight forward or faking being straight forward. Usually you're just town.
18. Reasoning is bad regardless of whether someone is scum or not. You can be perfectly wrong about someone's motivations and kill scum, and perfectly right about someone while bussing. Reasoning is separate. Pooky did point out that I was caught for the wrong reasons which is jumping off of you. But the thing is, there was in your initial post a glaring omission that pointed to you not seeming to know that people were JOATs, which was deeply confusing, because the alternative was that your argument was that it was convenient for me to claim a role as an excuse instead of other plays that make much more sense in context for scum to do. It's more lies to juggle when the truth will do. It's a weird assumption to make.
19. Yes, I don't think that me claiming my second role there showed any anti-town motivation and was not some get out of jail free card, at best it's deeply confusing, but you just interpreted it as scummy. Which I still don't get.

If an apple is by an apple tree, you don't say that sure is convenient, you say, "that makes sense"

Anyway. Done. You promised Bell.

Bye.

This post would be a lot more readable if you used the quote feature. (You could just add in your numbers at the appropriate place if you don't want to quote split.) As it is currently written, I'm inclined to (and am) just skip over it.

LTO's scumcase on Bell in 761 is airtight so the "upward trend" I was seeing was fake

don't really care about bell's ability to keep posting if bell has zero town mindset at all

VOTE: Bell

-TL

Why are you buying LTO so much for town, and what is so airtight about their case on Bell?

I had the same question. That's a interesting choice of words from Harmony.

*shrug* my third ability is a novice 1 shot alibi.
I investigate a player and find out every player that they didn't visit.
This gets more powerful with time.

My bus driver role also has a neighbor component. So I'm kind of like a weird double jail keeper that can talk to that player at night.
I was considering spite locking Pooky into it and then seeing if they could post 1000 pages and convince me they weren't scum over a night phase. But, really I was just going to carefully consider who I wanted to talk with over that time. since, I'm not actually vindictive, I just pretend I will be.

Bus driver? Was that an error or did you mean to write that?

I'm only claiming that part because I'm about to be killed.

I think you were at most seven votes out of nine. That's not particularly close to being killed.

804 bothers me. But they can't lack self-awareness that they would just post the same as scum every time they're scum right.

I'm not sure I'm seeing it. How does it bother you?

804 bothers me. But they can't lack self-awareness that they would just post the same as scum every time they're scum right.

and this is another scummy Bell post

I don't see how 804 isn't a towny post with genuine feeling

-TL

I'm not seeing this either. Genuine feeling, sure, I can buy this, but what makes it distinctly towny? (Your answer shouldn't be "genuine feeling" for I think scum could quite easily make a "genuine post" like that one.)

What about that post points to their alignment being town?

the feelings conveyed by that post are from a town mindset and are real

that is towny, not NAI and definitely not scummy

-TL

I'm still not convinced. What prevents it from being not alignment indicative?

let's say LTO's case proves that Bell is acting anti-town regardless of alignment

therefore, Bell is scum even if Bell is town

-TL

...

that being said, the only non-mech way I'll not SR Bell is for Bell to provide a lead rist

not a read list, a lead rist

LTO's fourth point in the case is very concerning and based on that case alone I don't think Bell has a town mindset

pedit: flips are mech

ppedit: again, flips are mech

but if you're anti-town regardless of alignment a flip won't be worth much

-TL

What exactly is a lead rist?

ot a read list, a lead rist

tell me more about this lead rist

a lead rist in this context is when you order every alive player (other than you) from most town to most scum

653 is an example of a lead rist

-TL

Is this an official term? Why are you specifically interested in the ordering?

Comrades, I have reviewed the contrasting literature of Lady Terminally Online and Bell. I must first say that many of Lady's assumptions to be superfluous to the overall argument. A work of Newton need not recite the axioms of Euclid. Despite this, Bell feels the need to rebut the point about scum win-conditions, despite missing the parenthetical clarification and it being irrelevant.

Yes, I noticed this too. I found it very weird from both of them (but more so from Bell since TerminallyOffline is newer whereas Bell should know that the assumptions weren't very relevant).

[Doctor Drew]

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: Dunn

Telling me to vote Ircher was dumb, why are you so dumb?

F--, never letting you control my vote again

[Firebringer]

who is the dumber person
the dumb person leading or the dumb person following.

makes u think doesn't it

[Doctor Drew]

who is the dumber person
the dumb person leading or the dumb person following.

makes u think doesn't it

The real dumb thing would be to follow you again.....

......wait a second

[Bell]

@
Maid Cafe (hydra of MariaR and Beeboy)
Doctor Drew
Sakura Hana
light_ganski


I want to know what you think of Bell's play so fa in this game and where you lean on his alignment

Reposting. I wanna know too.

If Pooky is wondering I’m just being patient while working through other people. but I don’t really think I’m going to be town reading Pooky this game. Without a mechanical clear. Pooky had off ramps but they never took them and I could have easily died, I don’t think they were genuinely trying to sort me. They’re laying the ground work for to take either position since they’re being careful to use more neutral wording in their recent posts but it take it as a second round of creating space to maneuver or act opportunistically.

Well, I’m not really curious on Maid or rather I think what they’ve already said about me in particular is fine and I’d rather hear about wherever their heart takes them on their scum hunting journey.

Ganksi’s catch up takes aren’t really my thing. Rather I really disagree with their reasons/logic for AI stuff. So instead I’m mostly looking at their positioning and it’s typical and like everyone else. I’m out of gas today so I don’t really want to engage with them while already looking at Laplace and waiting on a reply there.

I am watching/lurking. I’m just going to be in the background for this Dunn thing. I can’t be stirring all the pots. I reserve the right to intervene and change my mind.

In regards to tree stump being personally not fun for Drew, we’re all different. I think how rough this day phase has been for me explains neatly explains why it specifically appeals to me.

Also, I lied and crossed my fingers and my tree stump appears to be pretty much unblockable. I can decline to come back as a tree stump. But obviously, I’ll never do that.

[Firebringer]

The real question is would scum u sheep me this game.
And I have yet to really consider that because I think its probably just u being silly NAI

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If Pooky is wondering I’m just being patient while working through other people. but I don’t really think I’m going to be town reading Pooky this game. Without a mechanical clear. Pooky had off ramps but they never took them and I could have easily died, I don’t think they were genuinely trying to sort me. They’re laying the ground work for to take either position since they’re being careful to use more neutral wording in their recent posts but it take it as a second round of creating space to maneuver or act opportunistically.

I don't care about your read of me because you're mafia

[Bell]

Cool.

[Firebringer]

bell should really lock pooky up. Just so i can read that PT post game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lol

[Bell]

I’m not entirely sure what I would even talk to them about. They’re probably scum this game and they tend to just triple down when it comes to engaging with me.
They don’t really do resets as scum.

[Firebringer]

LOCK UP POOKY.

Then tell him ur not trapped in there with him. HE IS TRAPPED IN THERE WITH YOU

[Bell]

It’s not in my nature. My only thought was that I would fake being scum in the PT and say they’re doomed and all their friends and family would be gone when they were released. But my read of them died 10 pages back.

[Doctor Drew]

The real question is would scum u sheep me this game.
And I have yet to really consider that because I think its probably just u being silly NAI

Assuming you are talking to me

It was all jokes, until Ircher's last post which seemed so towny(slightly kept the joke going by voting Dunn, but I think no one got it haha).

But I am between Bell, LTO, and Harmony.....VOTE: Harmony

LTO seems a bit 'fake', kinda not buying he whole 'not used to vibe reads' thing

Bell, well I initially didn't think they would act the way they have acted as scum.......but frankly how they have acted around me just seems so weird and forced

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I’m not entirely sure what I would even talk to them about. They’re probably scum this game and they tend to just triple down when it comes to engaging with me.
They don’t really do resets as scum.

I have not seen a single post from you that even makes me believe a tiny bit that you think I'm mafia

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like if you actually thought I was mafia you' be trying to kill me

you're just sitting there twiddling your thumbs hoping that I leave you alone if you post enough nonsense XD

[Firebringer]

pooky ur tunnel isn't getting u anywhere i hope u realize

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky ur tunnel isn't getting u anywhere i hope u realize

wdym

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

where do you think I'm trying to go with this tunnel lol

[Doctor Drew]

pooky ur tunnel isn't getting u anywhere i hope u realize

I kinda enjoy his tunnel, I think you maybe too locked into Bell as town

[Firebringer]

pooky ur tunnel isn't getting u anywhere i hope u realize

wdym

i don't think its convincing.
And if ur goal is to intimidate bell into being more openly scummy by reactions, I don't think that will work. I don't think bell is scum.

[Titus]

@Pooky, this feels like Among us! Bell but I don't have any mech to back it.

People got real particular on trying to find something to assail me on after that but aside from Hu were all people I was suspecting/pushed anyhow.

How likely is it that Bell, Broccoli, HST, Lemon and RH contain most or all of the scum?

[Firebringer]

pooky ur tunnel isn't getting u anywhere i hope u realize

I kinda enjoy his tunnel, I think you maybe too locked into Bell as town

U play alot of games with town bell?