Newbie 2127 Dead Thread

[Skygazer]

I've struggled with whether or not I should like address the toxicity this game has had in depth in the dead thread (honestly most people who have been on this site a significant period of time have seen worse but this is the worst I've seen in a game I've modded... I might be lucky in that regard).

I guess all I have to say is this: mafia and therapy have both taught me it's better to "respond" than it is to "react." That is to say, this is forum mafia, we have the luxury of stepping away and reapproaching a situation with a less flustered mind, and doing so can lead to healthier interactions. Naturally there's going to be conflict and manipulation. You can even have an abrasive personality and people will still love to play with you if you do it tastefully. But knowing how to go about this game respectfully is important for everyone's enjoyment, and if you don't figure out how to do that, you'll start to see people "/out" when you join the queue, wind up on blacklists, have mods WotC you, etc.

I have no interest in calling anyone out specifically at the moment, but that's just my two cents. I'm not saying you have to be a saint either; I've had someone assume that I had to be town because I'd "be a horrible person" for attempting an AtE I did as scum. I was scum and they got over it. I'm just saying that knowing how to not take things too far is a really important part of playing this game.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah I think even back in the day I kinda skirted on the edge of that abrasive but not abrasive enough for people to actively avoid me.

[Skygazer]

I don't know what you used to be like but I find your playstyle very effective! I wish I could have your thread control skills

[JasonWazza]

Basically higher aggression, lot more insults, and using language that was more ok back in 2013 so another few magnitudes worse.

[MikhailTal]

We're not trying to be an asshole, we're pretty sure that perception comes from a difference in definitions and we apologized for it in 608. Like scumread us sure whatever that's part of the game but don't imply we're actively on purpose being toxic regardless of what PM we got

-A

can only be interpreted as leveling or angle shooting based on how things turned out

[MikhailTal]

or maybe cosmic irony

[MikhailTal]

I've struggled with whether or not I should like address the toxicity this game has had in depth in the dead thread (honestly most people who have been on this site a significant period of time have seen worse but this is the worst I've seen in a game I've modded... I might be lucky in that regard).

I guess all I have to say is this: mafia and therapy have both taught me it's better to "respond" than it is to "react." That is to say, this is forum mafia, we have the luxury of stepping away and reapproaching a situation with a less flustered mind, and doing so can lead to healthier interactions. Naturally there's going to be conflict and manipulation. You can even have an abrasive personality and people will still love to play with you if you do it tastefully. But knowing how to go about this game respectfully is important for everyone's enjoyment, and if you don't figure out how to do that, you'll start to see people "/out" when you join the queue, wind up on blacklists, have mods WotC you, etc.

I have no interest in calling anyone out specifically at the moment, but that's just my two cents. I'm not saying you have to be a saint either; I've had someone assume that I had to be town because I'd "be a horrible person" for attempting an AtE I did as scum. I was scum and they got over it. I'm just saying that knowing how to not take things too far is a really important part of playing this game.

if you're incapable of at least trying to view someone else impartially based on differences in the appearance of their text you're only playing the game on an optical level to begin with and aren't thinking for yourself, and the only justification you can have for that is 'i'm not having fun so i refuse to engage'. trying to relate it back to the game is unjust discrimination, there isn't another word for it, and it can't ever be just unless you admit you're happy to give up to enjoy yourself more. it's nothing more than cowardice or laziness to give any other reason to discard someone else's perspective as town and is ALWAYS bad faith, it's very easy to just admit you don't want to do something without fallaciously making it sound like you have some nobler cause that ties in to the gamestate. very simple, very objective statement: working on less information to model your understanding is always worse. impartial judgement isn't about believing something but giving it consideration to begin with and jason is a good example of a player who knows how to do that while still discrediting someone else's opinion.

calling each other cunts or whatever is conflict, sure, but it's fundamentally different in nature. you can call someone a cunt and agree or disagree with them justly separate from that. katy and pc's spat day 1 was heated but wasn't particularly toxic as much as it was a mismatch of perspectives and that's true of any case in this particular game where pc is involved with someone else and there's any amount of discomfort, pc may as well be the definition of acting in good faith, they're simply blunt. delta and usespython more or less were talking past each other intentionally which is obviously quite bad faith but there's seemingly an alignment-related explanation for that. bazuf asked for someone whose alignment they can only possibly know (katy) if bazuf is mafia, to explain mikhail's reads in mikhail's place when mikhail was still alive, citing reasons such as it being 'annoying' to read mikhail's messages. allowing such a degradation of perspective but not allowing yourself to simply read something and attempt to understand it is inherently nonsensical, and if it isn't mafia it's MORE insulting than bazuf just saying directly to mikhail 'i refuse to read anything you say'. framing toxicity in mafia around conflict has to be missing the point as mafia's just a gamified conversation that encourages arguments and arguments necessitate conflict, its toxicity is the closer to the same as within informal debate - attack the position, not the person. if you don't have conviction somewhere, seek clarification directly or don't engage directly. extremity and what is 'too far' is far too subjective, nobody in our system would care even slightly if we were told to kill ourselves in real life in a mafia game but will forget someone else exists entirely and put them in poe without a second thought if they suggest they're doing the same for any of us.

[Skygazer]

omg not the homophobia allegations

[Skygazer]

ironically i think people were only calling themselves the c word... still not a great vibe

i think people are just lazy and don't wanna spend a lot of time deciphering, but your posts weren't that hard to read imo

[Skygazer]

out of all of the gamed on mafiascum, this sure is one of them

[MikhailTal]

this has become a rather ridiculous game as pc is trying to set the record for longest stream of consciousness of all time while both mafia go down their laundry lists trying less and less creative ways to gaslight town and the only reason scum aren't immediately resigning is that the rest of town is too intimidated by pc at this point outplaying every other player there combined to just listen to them and win effortlessly

[JasonWazza]

HDF, you’re the only confirmed town atm.
What do you think of this?
Where should the town vote go in order to solve this?

VOTE: Snix

I'm satisfied with this because of casting aspersions on my Mason claim. That's desperate, and with the rest of the play so far I'm still happy with my conviction that this slot is scum.

I think we are in an awful position anyways at the moment and we need to take the best candidate available for scum.

I never said you were not the mason, just that you weren't confirmed. You being ultra defensive about your claim is a little suspect but nothing that makes me think you're lying.

Just to be clear, yes, yes he is confirmed, there is no way for HFD to be scum, else the real Mason would be claiming and getting a free 1v1.

Literally no reason on 7 for Mason to not be immediately countered for a free scum lim.

And if the counter is scum, you just go to 3 and a 2v1 with a bunch of information (to make that claim, you have to be confident in your scum partner, and again, only PC can actually achieve this)

[JasonWazza]

How is this day still running?

I actually don't understand why Town is just doing nothing right now instead of just moving the game forward.

[Datisi]

omg not the homophobia allegations

omg where

[Skygazer]

PC do you think Snix is town?

Delta do you think PC is town?

don't answer him delta make him answer my question first. we've had a back and forth now it's time to put up or shut up.

If you can't parse my opinion based on the words I've already said I'll spell it out for you. T O W N. and bad for it.

now that the kings request has been granted delta can answer my very simple question.

We've already had snark in your slot and it killed my appetite for the game, can we maybe chill

Sorry, I tend to answer in kind. He called me queen earlier in the thread so I figured it fitting. I'll try to keep my conduct game related but I'm going to defend myself.

now you have a problem with how gay people talk? okay.

[Datisi]

this truly is one of the mafia games of all time

[JasonWazza]

Every time i check this game, I'm so disappointed in the fact that it's still stalled on the easiest part.

[JasonWazza]

skygazer which movies HAVE you seen

heya all, will read & catch up soon

Welcome, good luck, looking forward to your analysis.

thanks, i'm looking forward to it too

any suggestions on where i should focus my attention?

Yeah the fucking Mason topic.

[Skygazer]

Spoiler: this comment spoils both scum

ducky coming in hot and voting the entire scum team makes me sad he'll only be here for 36 hours

[JasonWazza]

Spoiler: I mean I think the game is kinda spoiled in here at this point but.

Honestly, i kind of feel bad for the scum here, the worst has come in and put this game onto their back, i don't think this game would have been a win necessarily from how it was going but it is a full carry there.
Like before this replacement it felt kinda like a coin flip, now I gotta say it feels 0% chance for scum.

[Skygazer]

Spoiler:

yeahhhh sometimes scum just gets absolutely shafted by replacements. i've seen weirder things happen tho and maybe scum can get lucky and wiggle their way out... i'm thinking if/when the worst dies town might lose some cohesion so maybe they have a shot! but ye not likely imo either

[Skygazer]

hi snix!

[Snix]

And I would have gotten away with it if not for that mediling the worst!

[Skygazer]

good 36 hours, ducky!

[the worst]

sorry for everything